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Pride and Pinion?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,945 ✭✭✭✭ Cienciano


    sparrowcar wrote: »
    his hate for Hublot is hilarious.

    Poor old Hublot. Seems to be the one thing everyone in the watch community agrees on


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Poor old Hublot. Seems to be the one thing everyone in the watch community agrees on
    I'd say it's mostly to do with taking an industry that can be already cynical with marketing and just going too far with it. That they have no "authentic history" to speak of just makes it more obvious. Add in being too much of the moment fashionable and it's hard sell to watch enthusiasts. TAG went dead fash and current in the 90's and got away with it and had huge sales, because they had a history, the interwebs wasn't nearly so influential, buyers were much less into historical designs and they weren't the only ones doing it.

    That said there's far more to the market than watch enthusiasts and even within that segment there's a lot of variability, so I doubt Hublot are looking at the dole office any time soon. I'd reckon their sales are solid enough.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,573 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I watched the latest addition last night. The profanities are a bit much but he is very funny all the same. About that new two million dollar McGregor watch "I don't think Conor paid any money for that fish bowl like" :D

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    unkel wrote: »
    I watched the latest addition last night. The profanities are a bit much but he is very funny all the same.
    Which is grand and a bit of craic. My issue, such as it is, is that he's coming out with complete howlers of "watch knowledge" which his followers swallow and is a dealer. That and Fitz's take which I agree with that his number of subs are a tad dubious. He comes across as a mashup of a used car dealer and a less odious Archieluxury. A serious caveat emptor for any buyers out there would be my advice. Though on the other hand a perusal of his comment section and subreddit seems to show his main audience are young lads with budget watches and he doesn't engage very often with them, Spreading his online persona a bit thin I suspect. He appears to be emulating in a more crass way another young Dutch watch dealer out there.
    About that new two million dollar McGregor watch "I don't think Conor paid any money for that fish bowl like" :D
    :D true too I reckon.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭ Fitz II


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Which is grand and a bit of craic. My issue, such as it is, is that he's coming out with complete howlers of "watch knowledge" which his followers swallow and is a dealer. That and Fitz's take which I agree with that his number of subs are a tad dubious. He comes across as a mashup of a used car dealer and a less odious Archieluxury. A serious caveat emptor for any buyers out there would be my advice. Though on the other hand a perusal of his comment section and subreddit seems to show his main audience are young lads with budget watches and he doesn't engage very often with them, Spreading his online persona a bit thin I suspect. He appears to be emulating in a more crass way another young Dutch watch dealer out there.

    :D true too I reckon.

    I purchased my Pepsi off Pride and Pinion, and get the impression they are trying to distance the business from the "youtube" persona of Nico, the recent name change attests to this. As a dealer I found them professional and slick. The sales pack I received was awesome and well produced.

    I like these videos, but the swearing is too much, makes watching the vids very jarring. Talked to Nico on the phone and not one profanity was uttered. Guessing that they have a young team of content creators that are pushing they type of viral video onto him. I have to say I am still dubious about the sub numbers, but maybe they are capturing non watch viewers of which I have limited experiance.

    I get your point on the horological clinkers wibbs, but like top gear is not really about cars its car related entertainment, this is really not about watches its watch related entertainment He is just filling him in between "da funnies"


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Fitz II wrote: »
    I purchased my Pepsi off Pride and Pinion, and get the impression they are trying to distance the business from the "youtube" persona of Nico, the recent name change attests to this. As a dealer I found them professional and slick. The sales pack I received was awesome and well produced.
    At the same time Fitz they're a dealer selling watches with redials, completely daft descriptions, jamming quartz movements into old watches and at daftly inflated prices(and as you noted outrageous prices are not scarce). That kinda thing makes Hodinkee at their worst look like the British Horological Institute. Now you know what you're about, have done your research and are well clued into the particular watches you're interested in and know the prices they're going for. You're far less likely to fall for BS and end up with a sh1tter(c)(tm) Fitz:D. Not so clued in customers...
    I have to say I am still dubious about the sub numbers, but maybe they are capturing non watch viewers of which I have limited experiance.
    I've never seen such a new channel of any sort with that translated into that many subs, compared to number of views/comments in such a short time and like you note without any video going viral. The Archieluxury eejit has been ranting for over ten years and was regularly quoted on watch forums for many a year and still has only 60,000 subs. It's possible I suppose, but your pic of the click farm looks far more likely. It has worked as views have certainly gone up, but organically? I have my doubts. Still, the 'Tube is full of all sorts of shenanigans and tie ins and bought clicks and subs so that wouldn't bother me tbh. If you can work the angles they built and tacitly encourage then fair enough.
    I get your point on the horological clinkers wibbs, but like top gear is not really about cars its car related entertainment, this is really not about watches its watch related entertainment He is just filling him in between "da funnies"
    True, but even Top Gear at its most off the wall remained very accurate as far as cars and car history were concerned. They take pride in that, for all their jolly japes, because behind the fun stuff they're all genuine car guys with genuine knowledge about cars. Nico describing a subdial as a complication with a straight face would be like James May describing an aftermarket K&N filter as forced induction and the howlers are just as common and just as daft on their official non sweary website.

    He may be a good salesman who provides the right amount of slickness and fair enough and he seems to be a nice chap, but going on his pronouncements on the Tube and on the website he hasn't a blind bog about watches beyond current and near current reference numbers and company marketing handouts. It's all surface and sales, sweary for the kidz on youtube, measured tones for the deeper wallets in his shop.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭ Time


    Wibbs wrote: »
    He appears to be emulating in a more crass way another young Dutch watch dealer out there.

    Very true, at least AVW (i assume that who you mean) actually have been in business quite a long time and from memory Jasper has some sort of qualification too, so i'd tend to trust them a little bit more.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    That's the chap T. On a brief perusal his prices seem to be keener too? Though again my knowledge of the current Rolex models and prices would be minimal enough so... The luxury/veblen good game whether it be watches or anything else by its very nature tends to thrive on salesmanship and hype, even a little BS around the edges with it. They're selling a dream and in the majority of cases to people who rely on them for expertise into buying into that. Even when actual expertise is present it can sometimes be subverted for the sale.

    The internet hasn't helped, because although on the one hand it's been a boon for good information, research and the calling out of marketing "facts" it can also create other falsehoods that become memes that get endlessly repeated until they become facts. Same for cars too. I've seen it with my own car's model. According to the internet they came with seam welded shells, they didn't. That they came with hand assembled engines, only the very early ones until machines that could do it more precisely than any human came along and so on until they become "facts" in nigh on every blog, article and youtube video.

    So this Nico guy's facts; Cartier invented the first wristwatch. Not even close. Rolex brought the wristwatch to market. Not even close. Rolex invented the waterproof watch. Not even close. A subseconds is a complication. Eh... nope(then again Hodinkee seem to call every time only dress watch with a subseconds a "calatrava"). And so on. Our watch game stands out as being very prone to this sorta thing. The brands are often to blame too because of their marketing spiel usually disseminated word for word by watch "journalists" with little critique. Though to be fair to Rolex and even with one of the best marketing depts in history in any field, they actually don't do this(Omega and Longines are pretty good here too). It's much more their fans and dealers.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭ redlead


    I think someone needs to tell Nico that Wibbs is on to him ;‐)

    The sub numbers for his channel seem bonkers. I look at a lot of watch youtubers and I think the sweet spot for genuine subscribers for a good channel is about 30k. Its a very niche interest. It helps if you are an American channel but I find it very hard believe the numbers of lads like him, Teddy Baldasarre, Jenni Elle (another one that exploded fast). There seems to be a direct correlation between youtubers that do it for a living versus on the side and inflated subscribers.

    If you take a quality channel like the timeless watch channel, you can see as word spreads and watch enthusiasts start following, numbers go up very slowly. Someone like Bark and Jack or Jennie Elle can grow in a week what Oisín grows in a year through hard graft.

    Overall, as Wibbs has eluded to a few times, most of these guys are chancers who don't know a whole lot. 90 percent of them cover the same brands over and over and roll out as many clichés as they do reference numbers. Its kind of obvious to me because I've learned nearly everything I know from watching YouTube over the last 3 years or so since I've been into watches and I can tell you nearly every model of every brand but ultimately know f€ck all about watches. I'm learning nothing new from them now. I'm not aware of a single channel that really delves into the mechanics of watches and the history of them. If they exist, they probably have 5k subscribers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    I think the channel is terribly one dimensional at this point.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    I've yet to see a youtube channel that does. Like you say probably have tiny numbers. To be fair it's a dry enough subject and people are more interested in the flashier take and the marketing angle and more recently the value porn. The whole "reference 1234567 in rose platinum with a ceramic strap with a value of eleventy million pounds!!" thing. Nico hits all of those and adds humour.

    It can be similar with watch sites in general. Hodinkee started off well and had some great articles(Jack Forster was always worth a read). It still can have good ones, but the dealer speak and aspirational stuff has certainly taken over there. For the history of early wristwatches and the companies this chap's site is the best resource out there and is continually being updated. For the history and background of mid century electric and quartz this Polish guy's site is good too.

    I've found it's nearly always the quirkier side of watch history that gets the better and more informed sites. Blogs and the like that are brand based are generally run by fans so will always have a slant.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,573 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I for one have no trouble believing his numbers are real. Totally different target audience from typical watch channels, I'd say the average age of the viewer is more like 20, not 50. It's an entertainment / comedy channel, rather than a serious watch channel

    Agree with 893bet that it is rather one dimensional, and if I'm honest, getting a bit boring too

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    unkel wrote: »
    I for one have no trouble believing his numbers are real. Totally different target audience from typical watch channels, I'd say the average age of the viewer is more like 20, not 50. It's an entertainment / comedy channel, rather than a serious watch channel
    His subreddit anyway while having the occasional Rolex in the mix is definitely more about 20 year olds than 50 year olds alright - lots of pics of Seiko and Casio and fashion watches- and that demographic is more likely to grow a channel quickly(and get bored of it equally quickly) and he's had tie ins with other tubers with a similar audience, but still his numbers growth has been remarkably swift. Like you say much more an entertainment channel, though they post howlers on the main watch site too.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Just caught his latest vid, where he looks at his subreddit poster's watches and memes. Got a bit incestuous as such thinsg can and he's a personable chap still, but then a pic of a vintage Seamaster came along and beyond dubious info about it, he doubled down on calling a subseconds dial a complication. [insert facepalm here] The guy is literally clueless beyond the catalogue numbers of Rolex and the like. Fine, but people are thinking this guy is an expert. Still like Unkel said it's mostly kids watching, but still.. Yeah I'm out. I thought, hoped originally that a new youtuber would come along for the watch community that was a bit of craic, not too dry and had a clue, but... Two outa three isn't bad I suppose.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 651 ✭✭✭ 2shea


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Just caught his latest vid, where he looks at his subreddit poster's watches and memes. Got a bit incestuous as such thinsg can and he's a personable chap still, but then a pic of a vintage Seamaster came along and beyond dubious info about it, he doubled down on calling a subseconds dial a complication. [insert facepalm here] The guy is literally clueless beyond the catalogue numbers of Rolex and the like. Fine, but people are thinking this guy is an expert. Still like Unkel said it's mostly kids watching, but still.. Yeah I'm out. I thought, hoped originally that a new youtuber would come along for the watch community that was a bit of craic, not too dry and had a clue, but... Two outa three isn't bad I suppose.

    Hes an expert on pretending to be an expert.

    Even at that hes not much of one.

    It's so funny some one throws out a few references numbers and everyone thinks they are a "watch expert"

    Iv watched other videos and Instagram stories where he makes out hes pulling these Ref numbers straight out of his head, gas stuff altogether.

    But hey people buy it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Oh I'd say he's well acquainted with current reference numbers and values and maybe going back a decade without recourse to google and that's grand, he's a salesman and that's the pitch that works currently and not just in the cheap seats necessarily. And that's grand too tbh and fair play to him if he can make a go of it and it seems he is. He's certainly not alone in selling a fantasy and egging on prices and he's not the worst by a country mile. It's the very nature of the current luxury watch business model and many other luxury segments too. It was always thus to some degree, but the internet has really amplified it and it tends to amplify the PT Barnum aspect more than not. Our collective attention spans have decreased, while ironically the volume of good information has increased, but one seems to cancel the other in favour of the instant and looking to self declared experts. One youtuber could post a vid that is as profound as Plato on a good day, but a kitten awkwardly bouncing on a trampoline in Texas will get more likes and views. :D

    Now the clued in guys buying watches who know their stuff and what they want will be fine. They'll bypass the flim flam. It's the newbs that would be more a concern.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭ Time


    I see pride and pinion got slated by Amsterdam vintage watches on Instagram today. Thoroughly entertaining stuff.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    I got the impression they were close enough as guys. Maybe Nico being popular on youtube and the like appealing to a younger market isn't going down well with the more snooty end of the dealer network? I don't instagram so I don't know.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭ Fitz II


    Time wrote: »
    I see pride and pinion got slated by Amsterdam vintage watches on Instagram today. Thoroughly entertaining stuff.

    Give us a link please


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    I seen Timeless take a minor pop at them also in a video recently. He didn’t mention the channel but it was obvious who he was talking about.

    The pride and pinion channel is a great load of **** at this point. It’s not a “serious” watch channel. Just a bit of fun. I think it has lost its freshness personally and is not interesting me anymore.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭ Time


    Fitz II wrote: »
    Give us a link please

    Here’s a screenshot

    18-FB1436-83-C8-47-F8-AB26-71795-B0-EF0-E0.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭ Fitz II


    I find the P&P stuff on youtube tiresome. Its too jumpy, edited by somebody on cocaine, and the strong opinions while initially refreshing are growing stale. I found them nice guys to deal with, but when you put yourself out there offering strong critisism you will have to take some in return. The hipster stores are remarkably similar alright.

    Love a bit of agro between the influencers.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,573 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    893bet wrote: »
    I seen Timeless take a minor pop at them also in a video recently. He didn’t mention the channel but it was obvious who he was talking about.

    I noticed that too :D

    It was about the pronunciation of some watch brands, wasn't it? It highlighted the snob in O'Malley more than the shortcomings of the subject he was ridiculing, but he was right of course.

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭ sparrowcar


    Yep agree with some of the above. The shouting/cursing and slating is very snapchatty (I just made that word up, I don't know what it means) and the novelty has worn off.

    There is a huge market for him though, the Paul Jake's and KSI type youtube kids will eat all his videos up. Not for me.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,598 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Having the exact same opinion on all while knowing little about watches... Oof. Then again if Nico has the exact same opinion as the other Dutch lad and copied him, it seems the same Dutch lad is a bit lacking in his own knowledge. I noticed the same dig from Timeless. It's all getting a tad school yard :D

    Now granted I have the mental age of a 12 year old, maybe 15 at a stretch so don't actually mind Nico's approach. It's a bit of craic and while I do like Timeless' channel, given a choice between wading through his oft pretentious and often just as dubious horological musings while he wanders around Venice like a D4 exchange student, or under ten minutes of Nico having a harmless rant, I'd have to think about it.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭ Fitz II


    I think all the youtubers go stale after a while, and maybe half that if you know exactly what to expect and the youtube algorithm does not reward anything different. Sparrowcar makes the good point that Nico is not aimed at us, he is watches related entertainment, like top gear is car related entertainment.

    The Timepiece Gentleman channel is another one, puts out a week in the life 60 min video every monday. Good fo seeing behind the scene of a busy dealer, but its all price and value and not real consideration of the watches.

    Look at channels that cater only to watch reviews and dont put all the other stuff around it, they can be around for years without gaining anything like the numbers Nico has in a few months.

    Just one more sh1tter watch is a good example, a fairly charming chap putting out nothing but watches for years in the most popular genre and not even 200k subs


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,945 ✭✭✭✭ Cienciano


    Fitz II wrote: »
    I think all the youtubers go stale after a while, and maybe half that if you know exactly what to expect and the youtube algorithm does not reward anything different.
    I think this is the problem. They all get a bit boring, youtube rewards them for sticking with submariners, or possibly something completely different and leftfield like a sea dweller. There's only so much talking about the same 4 or 5 most popular watches you can do.

    Watchfinder is always throwing up something different, it's the only one I'd watch regularly dear listener.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,363 ✭✭✭ Fitz II


    Watch finder are a bit different and I love the content, although the soliloquies can get a little laboured at times. Watchfinder are trying to sell watches. They have a ALS in stock that not shifting, I am sure a swooning video will find a punter. They are not reliant on views for income. The likes of Archieluxury need the views and the ad revenue so they have to talk about rolex. Or at least review the ALS with a "This ALS is a Rolex Killer" slant. No Rolex = no views. Its a sad state of affairs, there is more to watch collecting than Rolex, and it makes even the Rolex fan like me tire of the brand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,945 ✭✭✭✭ Cienciano


    Yeah, I understand their reasons for making videos, but purely from a youtube channel POV I can go to their channel and chances are it'll be something interesting rather than another submariner with a different colour bezel


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭ redlead


    Cienciano wrote: »
    Yeah, I understand their reasons for making videos, but purely from a youtube channel POV I can go to their channel and chances are it'll be something interesting rather than another submariner with a different colour bezel

    I agree with your overall sentiment. If I never see any Rolex, a speedie or a seamaster on a YouTube video again, I will be a happy man. Nothing against the watches, I'm just sick of the same handful of watches being regurgitated over and over again. They think they are being uber adventurous by including a few Tudors now too because the Rolex brigade approves.


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