Irish directed film on James Bulger comes under criticism for humanising the killers

FrancieBrady

RollieFingers wrote: »

People were saying the director stuck to the facts by only following the transcripts? Denise's husband said the leading detective involved with the case rang him to say it was not a true representation of the interviews, interview room etc.? So that's not true.

Also posters were saying the film isn't about what happened that day, but rather a look at why it happened etc. So why the need to hire a child actor to play James if it's not about what happened that day?

I don't think the film should be banned or censored, but the director showed his true colours by not getting in contact with the family first.

The detective would say that, would he not? A lawyer present said it was very accurate.

Depends on who you believe, somebody intent on dissing the director and the film (Denise) somebody who doesn't want to admit to any criticism of how the interviews were conducted (the un-named detective) or somebody with nothing much to gain from telling the truth. (the lawyer)

ohnonotgmail

RollieFingers wrote: »

People were saying the director stuck to the facts by only following the transcripts? Denise's husband said the leading detective involved with the case rang him to say it was not a true representation of the interviews, interview room etc.? So that's not true.

Also posters were saying the film isn't about what happened that day, but rather a look at why it happened etc. So why the need to hire a child actor to play James if it's not about what happened that day?

I don't think the film should be banned or censored, but the director showed his true colours by not getting in contact with the family first.

Not a true representation how? The directors claims to be working from the transcripts of the interview. Either they were or they weren't. It should be pretty simple for somebody to say how the film diverges from the transcripts.

gerrybbadd

Laois_Man wrote: »

We hear a lot about Jon Venables - But did you know, there is an English dude who moved from the UK in 2001 to Kilkenny and who was in prison from 2006 to 2016, who claimed while in custody to be the real Robert Thompson





Probably not, - even if his likeness (somewhat), his age and the time of his arrival in Ireland and his scouse accent all do add up!

Ya, that ain't him. Denise Fergus has an idea where he is, I think off in Europe somewhere.

Venables new identify was leaked again there before the xmas, with photos of him doing the rounds. He looks totally different than the first set of leaked photos of him

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Not a true representation how? The directors claims to be working from the transcripts of the interview. Either they were or they weren't. It should be pretty simple for somebody to say how the film diverges from the transcripts.

I think Denise said the detective was talking about the environment the interviews were conducted in, not the transcripts as such.

There is difference of opinion clearly on that. As a lawyer who was present verifies that the film got it spot on.

Again, as well as wanting to have editorial control over the cast, Denise wanted control over how the interviews were depicted. Intolerable interference for any serious film maker to consider going near.

Laois_Man

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Ya, that ain't him. Denise Fergus has an idea where he is, I think off in Europe somewhere.

Venables new identify was leaked again there before the xmas, with photos of him doing the rounds. He looks totally different than the first set of leaked photos of him

Actually, Denise Fergus claimed at the time that she didn't know whether it is him or not, that she couldn't get a straight answer about it rom the UK authoraties, and called for the Irish Government for full disclosure

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/TELL+ME+THE+TRUTH%3B+EXCLUSIVE+Jamie%27s+mum+in+call+for+answers+over...-a0145740874

Another similarity between Thompson and Walsh is, Walsh stabbed his pregnant girlfriend after getting wound up by a movie he had watched the night before. Exactly the same as the attack on little Jamie!

And Ireland counts as "off in Europe somewhere"

py2006

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Venables new identify was leaked again there before the xmas, with photos of him doing the rounds. He looks totally different than the first set of leaked photos of him

I never saw them.

Presumably he has had surgery over the years to alter his appearance.

gerrybbadd

Laois_Man wrote: »

Actually, Denise Fergus claimed at the time that she didn't know whether it is him or not, that she couldn't get a straight answer about it rom the UK authoraties, and called for the Irish Government for full disclosure

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/TELL+ME+THE+TRUTH%3B+EXCLUSIVE+Jamie%27s+mum+in+call+for+answers+over...-a0145740874

Another similarity between Thompson and Walsh is, Walsh stabbed his pregnant girlfriend after getting wound up by a movie he had watched the night before. Exactly the same as the attack on little Jamie!

And Ireland counts as "off in Europe somewhere"

What? How is the exact same? And it's James. Not Jamie

weldoninhio

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

What he was doing was totally disregarding their feelings and any trauma that may have arisen from this film about their sons absolutely brutal death and a film which seems to paint the two little scumbags who killed him in a slightly compassionate light when really they were born evil and their later years haven't been any different between child porn and conviction after conviction. This director guy knew exactly what he was doing so he could come out now and offer crocodile tears about "regretting" not contacting the parents. If he regretted it that much he would pull the film but of course he wont do that.

I wonder if his 2 year old son was battered to death on a lonely railway track with breeze blocks and paint would he be ok with someone making a film about the killers.

Have you seen the film?? Or is the bolded part just waffle and conjecture??

Laois_Man

gerrybbadd wrote: »

What? How is the exact same? And it's James. Not Jamie

Do your own research

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/chucky-films-defended-1468498.html

Sardonicat

Laois_Man wrote: »

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Ya, that ain't him. Denise Fergus has an idea where he is, I think off in Europe somewhere.

Venables new identify was leaked again there before the xmas, with photos of him doing the rounds. He looks totally different than the first set of leaked photos of him

Actually, Denise Fergus claimed at the time that she didn't know whether it is him or not, that she couldn't get a straight answer about it rom the UK authoraties, and called for the Irish Government for full disclosure

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/TELL+ME+THE+TRUTH%3B+EXCLUSIVE+Jamie%27s+mum+in+call+for+answers+over...-a0145740874

Another similarity between Thompson and Walsh is, Walsh stabbed his pregnant girlfriend after getting wound up by a movie he had watched the night before. Exactly the same as the attack on little Jamie!

And Ireland counts as "off in Europe somewhere"

Thompson is known to be gay with a longterm partner.

Mrcaramelchoc

Denise was saying on the claire byrne show( by the way claire its james not jamie) that all she wanted was to be consulted about the film.i seriously doubt she would have agreed to anything in it if she was consulted.

retro:electro

I don’t think it’s too much to ask to be sympathetically contacted pre production to a film which details the gruesome murder of your little boy. Put yourself in her shoes; a film is being made about the death of your little boy, there’ll be another little boy who resembles him playing his part, and yet you haven’t even had as much as a courtesy heads up call from the director to let you know the worst moment of your life is about to resurface again, oh and it might even get Oscar nominated.
I’ve no objections to the film itself being made but I can understand her total annoyance at the ignorance of those involved.

FrancieBrady

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

Denise was saying on the claire byrne show( by the way claire its james not jamie) that all she wanted was to be consulted about the film.i seriously doubt she would have agreed to anything in it if she was consulted.

Did you miss the bit where she said she wouldn't have agreed with the child actor and that she didn't agree with the portrayal of the interview environment?

conorhal

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Not a true representation how? The directors claims to be working from the transcripts of the interview. Either they were or they weren't. It should be pretty simple for somebody to say how the film diverges from the transcripts.

You don't have to diverge from a transcript at all to present two very different versions of a story, film is a visual medium, you can stick to a script but imply a lot through the direction of the actors, use of music etc.


Sure here's Mrs Doubtfire.... as a horror movie..

The opposite is also true, sure a skilled enough editor could probably even cut the film to resemble a comedy!

With hours and hours of transcripts, little of which is likely to make it into a short film, it sort of depends on what is left out and what is left in.
You only have to glance at that Covington Catholic school furore to see how selectively editing the facts you choose to present can completely change a story.

fitznyc

There'd be no 'scouse accent' either, as both Venables and Thompson are believed to have been taken far from Merseyside right after the murder, and were under restrictions not to be allowed back to the area....does look a little like how he may have ended up though.

RollieFingers

The acting in the trailer looks awful too, hopefully this gets nowhere near an Oscar.

valoren

I am looking forward to seeing this.

Hermy

Mutant z wrote: »

I have absolutely no hesitation in describing those children now adults as pure scum of the earth and yes they are absolutely evil for brutally torturing a defensless toddler to death in the most horrific way possible which they have never shown an ounce of remorse for so forgive me if I don't follow your advice because the simple fact is they are cold blooded killers who should have rotted in prison for the rest of their lives.

So you think two children should be allowed to rot in a prison cell?
What does that make you?

RollieFingers

Hermy wrote: »

So you think two children should be allowed to rot in a prison cell?
What does that make you?

Someone who thinks a human who murders a toddler in the horrific way they did to James should rot in a cell I'm guessing? I agree totally with the poster.

Hermy

So just like the two murderers you think it's okay to treat children in a horrific way?

shesty

Whether or not the film should have been made is one thing, but the least they should have done is contact the parents during the process to let them know what was being done.I wouldn't be surprised if a calculated decision was made not contact them, as it probably would have been the end of the film, but still.If I was her, I would be beyond livid to discover this had been done.There would be no excuse for it in my eyes-artistic reasons, understanding why, nothing.There is no understanding of an act like that.None.

retro:electro

Hermy wrote: »

So just like the two murderers you think it's okay to treat children in a horrific way?

Two boys who have never shown and ounce of remorse, one of whom has reoffended to the extent he had to be given a second protected indentity, and has shown to be sexually interested in children probably should be segregated from society for the remainder of their lives. Their sentence was disgracefully lenient. And the compensation they received a slap in the face to the child they tortured. Lest we forget:

Venables was caught with 1,170 indecent photos of children on his laptop. He admitted having 392 category A images, 148 category B and 630 category C pictures.

He also pleaded guilty to having a paedophile manual on or before November 17 last year.

Hermy

They absolutely should be segregated from society for the remainder of their lives but surely suggesting or desiring that they be allowed to rot makes us no better than them.

FrancieBrady

I don't think the film makes any comment on the actual crime. Lambe was abhorred by it as any decent person would. It isn't about the crime.

Grandeeod

Once it appears on RTE, I hope people watch it. Then and only then, can we have any kind of debate here. We all need to watch it and after that (if you've watched it) we are on a level playing field.

I always thought the Director made a mistake by not informing the family, but after listening to Denise, I can see why that decision was made in hindsight.

Outlaw Pete

I feel for the families in these situations as someone who had one of their best friends murdered and can also of course absolutely understand the angry reaction to the suggestion that the killers are being portrayed in a sympathetic fashion. Disgusts me for example how the General was made out to be some kind of lovable rogue given the suffering that he undoubtedly caused.

Beyond that though, it's over 25 years now and while out of courtesy it would be fitting if filmmakers informed the family of their plans to make such a film, I really don't think it should be felt that the murder is something filmmakers should feel they can't explore.

If anything I'm surprised there hasn't been many other films made about the murder already given it's high profile and from what I can see from the scenes which have been made available (link below) it certainly doesn't appear to be a film which is overly trying to get the audience to feel empathy for the two.

Be interested in seeing the full film at some stage.

https://vimeo.com/277662428

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Laois_Man wrote: »

Actually, Denise Fergus claimed at the time that she didn't know whether it is him or not, that she couldn't get a straight answer about it rom the UK authoraties, and called for the Irish Government for full disclosure

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/TELL+ME+THE+TRUTH%3B+EXCLUSIVE+Jamie%27s+mum+in+call+for+answers+over...-a0145740874

Another similarity between Thompson and Walsh is, Walsh stabbed his pregnant girlfriend after getting wound up by a movie he had watched the night before. Exactly the same as the attack on little Jamie!

And Ireland counts as "off in Europe somewhere"

As far as I know, this violent film stuff was far from a certainty in the Bulger case. It was never taken that seriously that the boys were influenced by violent films.

And as someone else said above, James Bulger was never called Jamie. The newspapers christened him that. It’s a real bugbear of his parents and I don’t blame them.

RollieFingers

Hermy wrote: »

So just like the two murderers you think it's okay to treat children in a horrific way?

I think it's ok to treat children in a horrific way, yes that's what I said, thanks for twisting my words.

I said I agree with a poster who believes that anyone who carries out an act like they did should get locked up for life. And if they happen to rot away, well that's their problem.

Grandeeod

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

As far as I know, this violent film stuff was far from a certainty in the Bulger case. It was never taken that seriously that the boys were influenced by violent films.

And as someone else said above, James Bulger was never called Jamie. The newspapers christened him that. It’s a real bugbear of his parents and I don’t blame them.

The film Child's Play was mentioned a lot and I think eventually banned by the BBFC as a result.

batgoat

Grandeeod wrote: »

The film Child's Play was mentioned a lot and I think eventually banned by the BBFC as a result.

It was in relation to Child's Play 3, the police thought that they may have seen it because Venables' father had rented it(Chucky throwing paint at a victim was assumed to have inspired part of the attack) . But he wasn't living with the father at the time so later concluded to be unrelated.