Legislation to make organ donations automatic

skooterblue2

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Yes it is.

Read it.

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8236

So do you reckon the organ will be distributed even and fairly by a case by case basis? ..... or do you think it will be rich and wealthy first? George Best and Larry Hagman alike?

byhookorbycrook

But what happens to the likes of me who cannot donate due to various medications and whk has signed up to be sent to medical research ?

Guy:Incognito

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

But what happens to the likes of me who cannot donate due to various medications and whk has signed up to be sent to medical research ?

What do you think would happen? The same as before.

Mrs Shuttleworth

skooterblue2 wrote: »

So do you reckon the organ will be distributed even and fairly by a case by case basis? ..... or do you think it will be rich and wealthy first? George Best and Larry Hagman alike?

I think the legislation will greatly impact on clinical care and I suspect there is big money moving somewhere in the machine who wants good clean Irish organs and is willing to pay the Government for a steady supply of them.

It will serve to drive a wedge between doctors and patients in terms of trust, as you cannot be certain if you have been designated for dismantling like a clapped out car. There is no certainty that "Opting out" will be honoured or how the list will be maintained.

"Opting out" also forces you to give an opinion on organ donation that you may not want to give. This interferes with the right not to express an opinion under the Constitution.

I suspect this proposed legislation is unlawful.

Reati

Dravokivich wrote: »

Surely this goes against one of the main ideas of GDPR. No database should list someone, with an opt-out to remove them from it.

Saying something violates GDPR in a thread must be the new Goodwins law...

Guy:Incognito

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I think the legislation will greatly impact on clinical care and I suspect there is big money moving somewhere in the machine who wants good clean Irish organs and is willing to pay the Government for a steady supply of them.

It will serve to drive a wedge between doctors and patients in terms of trust, as you cannot be certain if you have been designated for dismantling like a clapped out car. There is no certainty that "Opting out" will be honoured or how the list will be maintained.

"Opting out" also forces you to give an opinion on organ donation that you may not want to give. This interferes with the right not to express an opinion under the Constitution.

I suspect this proposed legislation is unlawful.

So why are these people looking for Ireland for it? Surely a bigger country that already does this would be better (seeing as I'm guessing you reckon this is the only reason these things are brought in).

JohnMc1

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

ORGAN donation after death will be automatic unless stated otherwise under new laws set to be drafted in next month.

Health Minister Simon Harris will introduce the legislation to make Ireland an “opt-out country”.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/legislation-make-organ-donations-automatic-15617891

Maybe legalizing abortion wasn't such a good idea after all.

El_Duderino 09

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

pleas advice wrote: »

Decision rests with the family, as it always did.
Welcome move though

No it doesn't if you read the small print of the English draft bill which ours will mirror. Doctors will proceed to harvest unless the family expressly contact the doctor - the onus is on the family to alert, not the doctors to check first. This has chilling implications for clinical care.

I went to the "opt out" link of the Welsh NHS Organ Donation page. Amazingly the system allowed me to register an opt out without a UK National Insurance number. Laughably, I was then asked for explicit consent for cookies and GDPR.

Here is the message I got back:

"Thank you

Step 1 – Complete

Thank you, your decision not to donate your organs or tissue after your death will be recorded on the NHS Organ Donor Register, and we will post a letter of confirmation to the postal address you provided to us. Please be aware that the letter may take up to ten weeks to arrive. If you prefer, you can call us on 0300 123 23 23 to confirm that your details have been registered.

Step 2 – Please talk to your family

It is essential to let your family know that you have made the decision not to be an organ and tissue donor when you die. If you die in circumstances where donation is possible, we will talk to your family about the fact that you had registered a decision not to donate and check that they do not have any more recent information about your decision.

They won’t know what you want unless you tell them, so help them to support your decision at a difficult time by talking to them about it now.

If you change your mind, you can amend your registration at any time

You might be interested to see the amazing difference organ donors can make

Are you interested in being a blood donor?

If you're aged 17-65 you can register to be a blood donor."

How safe and foolproof actually is this system?

Seems grand. You opted onto a list of people who don't want to donate organs. Why would that need a National Insurance number? That's just a barrier to some people who don't know their national insurance number. The whole point is to make it fool proof for a fool who doesn't know anything except that they don't want to donate organs.

Imagine they required a NI number. The clowns would say it was to make it Intentionally difficult to opt out so the gubbermint can harvest your organs willy-nilly.

To answer your question is seems pretty fool-proof to me. But if a real fool put they mind to breaking the system they might well succeed.

greencap

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Your new organ and the blood in it infecting a new body with a craving for sugar that you had but they didn't isnt some big "omg my soul" thing.

why not.

is there another soul that you know of?

El_Duderino 09

end of the road wrote: »

i'm wondering if perhapse the nhs want to cover themselves internationally in relation to organ donation. for example if a foreign national is visiting the uk and dies there in circumstances where harvesting could be viable, then how would it normally work? could they still harvest the organs? or can they only harvest from uk citizens?
perhapse if someone wishes to opt out, it's probably no harm to make that clear on as many countries systems as possible just in case?

Im struggling to understand the desire to make this seem as though the government is after your organs. Of he shocked if the UK government can harvest organs from tourists who happen to die in the UK on a weekend break.

What happens if an Irish citizen dies in the UK after the legislation is passed in Ireland? Will the two governments scrap for your organs so the winner can feast on their liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti?

The length posters are going to make this seem nefarious should show how harmless this legislation is likely to be.

I' wouldn't worry about it because it has been Implemented in order countries without major problems. So unless the legislation has a sinister twist to it, just relax

skooterblue2

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Im struggling to understand the desire to m
What happens if an Irish citizen dies in the UK after the legislation is passed in Ireland? Will the two governments scrap for your organs so the winner can feast on their liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti?

I would refer to the age old piece of legislation of "Finders Keepers" it was instituted some time after Cain Killed Able when questioned by Seth.

batgoat

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Maybe legalizing abortion wasn't such a good idea after all.

What a silly remark.

skooterblue2

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I think the legislation will greatly impact on clinical care and I suspect there is big money moving somewhere in the machine who wants good clean Irish organs and is willing to pay the Government for a steady supply of them.

It will serve to drive a wedge between doctors and patients in terms of trust, as you cannot be certain if you have been designated for dismantling like a clapped out car. There is no certainty that "Opting out" will be honoured or how the list will be maintained.

"Opting out" also forces you to give an opinion on organ donation that you may not want to give. This interferes with the right not to express an opinion under the Constitution.

I suspect this proposed legislation is unlawful.

Have you never seen the video of the Moscow Morgue? Its like a chop shop for body parts. Just because you are dead doesnt mean your organs cant be retrieved for body parts. Just like Dracula written over 100 year ago, its the rich harvesting off the poor.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So why are these people looking for Ireland for it? Surely a bigger country that already does this would be better (seeing as I'm guessing you reckon this is the only reason these things are brought in).

The pharmaceutical and medical device sector in Ireland is huge, much bigger than people realize. For example, 30% of the world's contact lenses are manufactured in Ireland.

It makes sense that companies based here would want a steady unimpeded stream of tissue (which this legislation will also cover).

Ariadne

The tinfoil hat brigade are out in force tonight

AllForIt

The Opt-Out policy simplifies things. Critical life or death situations are not the time to make these serious decisions as it currently stands. Deciding them in advance of life or death situations, which are inevitable, seems perfectly reasonable to me.

lan

skooterblue2 wrote: »

So do you reckon the organ will be distributed even and fairly by a case by case basis? ..... or do you think it will be rich and wealthy first? George Best and Larry Hagman alike?

Organ allocation has nothing to do with the changes they're proposing

The change is only to do with implicit consent for donation, that doesn't affect where your organs will go if you donate. Any future problem you foresee with organ allocation would already apply now.

Anyway, it's not like someone can pay for an organ or to get bumped up the list. The allocation policies are all available on the HSE's website and they basically say the organs go to the most suitable person with the highest clinical need:

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/acute-hospitals-division/organ-donation-transplant-ireland/allocation-policies/

Mrs Shuttleworth

lan wrote: »

Organ allocation has nothing to do with the changes they're proposing

The change is only to do with implicit consent for donation, that doesn't affect where your organs will go if you donate. Any future problem you foresee with organ allocation would already apply now.

Anyway, it's not like someone can pay for an organ or to get bumped up the list. The allocation policies are all available on the HSE's website and they basically say the organs go to the most suitable person with the highest clinical need:

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/acute-hospitals-division/organ-donation-transplant-ireland/allocation-policies/

No disrespect but this is Ireland and the HSE we are talking about, not exactly known for adhering to the highest ethical, legal and moral standards in politics and medicine.

The lie being bandied about is that you are dead when the organs are removed - you are not, you are still alive and receive paralyzing drugs to prevent your body resisting the surgery.

I am totally opposed to this proposal.

Harris can go and f*ck himself.

My body, my choice.

McDermotX

Opt-in by all means, but no elected authority should presume to have the arrogance to govern over people's most basic and personal choice. A dead body is not fair game

And I say that as someone who would opt-in.

Cop yourself on Harris and Co.....get your house in order to a functioning level and give your publicity-seeking ideals a bleedin' rest.

Graces7

I am in the process of an Enduring Power of Attorney being granted to someone I trust. It will cover this and other eventualities. As I have no living kin this is a safeguard

Guy:Incognito

Graces7 wrote: »

I am in the process of an Enduring Power of Attorney being granted to someone I trust. It will cover this and other eventualities. As I have no living kin this is a safeguard

"Safeguard" against what?

Graces7

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

"Safeguard" against what?

any medical. residential or other event even if I become senile . Including organ donation as my Appointed person already knows.

Read the power it holds? The word NO.

VinLieger

Graces7 wrote: »

I am in the process of an Enduring Power of Attorney being granted to someone I trust. It will cover this and other eventualities. As I have no living kin this is a safeguard

Or you could just opt out.....

Ariadne

How dare the terrible government harvest your organs when you're dead and you have no use for them and then give them to people who are dying to allow them to continue to live. Evil nefarious government trying to save people's lives. There aren't enough roll eyes. I don't know why people are so desperate to hold on to their organs when they're dead, it's not like you'll be needing them. You could save several lives but no, you'd rather say fcuk Simon Harris, that can be your legacy instead.

Podge_irl

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

"Opting out" also forces you to give an opinion on organ donation that you may not want to give. This interferes with the right not to express an opinion under the Constitution.

Could you please point me to the article in the Constitution covering this?

Graces7

VinLieger wrote: »

Or you could just opt out.....

Do you trust HSE to honour that? I have no living kin to object and short of tattoing it on my chest....

I have little faith in HSE to get things right .. and an Enduring Power of Attorney should be made by everyone when they make their Will, for many reasons

see

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057936555

Any of us can become incapable, and vulnerable at any time.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Look at this report in today's Irish Examiner.

2,837 payments totalling €3.9m were made by private pharma to doctors last year but the recipients of €2.7m of that total (1,819 of the payments) have refused to consent to their identity being disclosed.

And Simon Harris wants to legislate to "presume consent" on our part to these closet kickback grubbers harvesting our organs?

https://amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/millions-of-euro-paid-in-secret-to-doctors-by-firms-895946.html

TheChizler

Graces7 wrote: »

Do you trust HSE to honour that? I have no living kin to object and short of tattoing it on my chest....

I have little faith in HSE to get things right .. and an Enduring Power of Attorney should be made by everyone when they make their Will, for many reasons

see

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057936555

Any of us can become incapable, and vulnerable at any time.

The third line in the article in the OP:

However, the important safeguard of family consent will be inserted in the new law so a next-of-kin can overrule their loved one’s decision and prevent organ donations.

Unless this has changed you will still need the consent of family, or POE. They have the final say now, and will continue to have the final say. Nothing changes from that point of view.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

For people saying you shouldn't be eligible for a donation if you opt out.

I would plan to opt out because I'm ineligible to donate blood or organs because of medical issues and I wouldn't want someone getting my diseased organs accidently in case a mistake was made. Should I not be eligible for a blood or organ donation if I needed one? I'd love to donate blood, I used to, but I'm not allowed now. I also was registered as an organ donor in the UK when I lived there, but I don't carry a card here. Reason because in the UK you could pick which organs you were happy to donate on the online database. If my organs were good enough I'd give everything but my eyes.

Graces7

TheChizler wrote: »

The third line in the article in the OP:



Unless this has changed you will still need the consent of family, or POE. They have the final say now, and will continue to have the final say. Nothing changes from that point of view.

Belt and braces.. My faith family wishes and mine. OK? OK! Thank you and bless your caring