191 reg cars...

JohnBoy26

Old diesel wrote: »

That's 24 k list vs a subsidised by Renault and Govt recession price yes?????.

+ it's not the same car. The new model is a better car than the old one.

Wildly Boaring

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

+ it's not the same car. The new model is a better car than the old one.

Must have pulled out all the stops to better the fluence

road_high

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Must have pulled out all the stops to better the fluence

The Fluence was really aimed at emerging markets like Turkey et al- as we love our 3 box saloons so much they brought it in here and it sold very well as it was very well priced and has a no non sense reputation for reliability. They didn’t even sell it in France!
Ive noticed that it seems to have replaced the Toyota Avensis as the default taxi drivers cars- an awful lot of them using them so they must be reliable.
The Megane Grand coupe is altogether a different car, gone upmarket rather than the value and functionality the Fluence sold on.

bazz26

The Fluence was sold in the far east and with the Samsung SM3 badge stuck on it:



Funnily enough that it also replaced the Samsung badged Nissan Almera saloon that we got here in the noughties.

rn

I think Toyota problem is the fact they no longer have a diesel. A lot of the older Toyota buyers that always refreshed their diesel saloon every 1-3 years don't trust hybrid petrol or an automatic for that matter. They are either holding onto the diesel they currently have or trying another brand that can give them a diesel.

Old diesel

rn wrote: »

I think Toyota problem is the fact they no longer have a diesel. A lot of the older Toyota buyers that always refreshed their diesel saloon every 1-3 years don't trust hybrid petrol or an automatic for that matter. They are either holding onto the diesel they currently have or trying another brand that can give them a diesel.

They still sold 10 k non diesels last year

Wildly Boaring

Old diesel wrote: »

They still sold 10 k non diesels last year

But it is deffo going to have an effect in this country.

I've an uncle who buys new Toyotas every year or 2 of every 3 anyway between him and his wife. And I mean this is a fanatic

RAV up for renewal and he wont buy a new one. The towing capacity is stupidly low. 850kg?

I reckon he'll end in a tiguan. He's not even sure yet.

He's also looking very seriously at leaf for the second car next year. Toyota going to have a full EV?

Wildly Boaring

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

But it is deffo going to have an effect in this country.

I've an uncle who buys new Toyotas every year or 2 of every 3 anyway between him and his wife. And I mean this is a fanatic

RAV up for renewal and he wont buy a new one. The towing capacity is stupidly low. 850kg?

I reckon he'll end in a tiguan. He's not even sure yet.

He's also looking very seriously at leaf for the second car next year. Toyota going to have a full EV?

Also by "this country" I'm assuming rest of world well ahead here and little old Ireland needs to catch up

road_high

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

But it is deffo going to have an effect in this country.

I've an uncle who buys new Toyotas every year or 2 of every 3 anyway between him and his wife. And I mean this is a fanatic

RAV up for renewal and he wont buy a new one. The towing capacity is stupidly low. 850kg?

I reckon he'll end in a tiguan. He's not even sure yet.

He's also looking very seriously at leaf for the second car next year. Toyota going to have a full EV?

I think a lot of ex Toyota diesel buyers will migrate certainly to VW Skoda.
Many people genuinely need a diesel, whether it be for a bit of towing or because they do a lot of mileage. Choice is never a bad thing.

road_high

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Also by "this country" I'm assuming rest of world well ahead here and little old Ireland needs to catch up

Not just ireland- Europe in general has always been pro diesel for various reasons. We were only following that trend and it was mainly down to fuel economy.

Squidgy Black

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

He's also looking very seriously at leaf for the second car next year. Toyota going to have a full EV?

Yep. They've partnered with Panasonic earlier last month to create their own EV batteries.

Old diesel

The commercial viability of diesel wasn't there for Toyota and when you consider the cost of developing a Euro 6 diesel with WLTP then it's better* to take the hit on a few diesel sales in Ireland.

Then chase what is for Toyota world wide - a niche market.

The reality is that Hybrid is actually superior technology for a lot of the typical Toyota drivers who bought into the brand for reliability.

So I think Toyota is right to push it.

The towing thing is obviously something they need to work on.

But the target audience for Toyota is probably evolving - to a younger audience for CHR who represent "the future" for the brand.

CHR is likely bringing people to Toyota who would normally have found an Auris or an Avensis too boring.

And I dont even like the CHR

*for Toyota

road_high

I love the CHR. They look class, pity they’re so expensive! It must be one if their best selling cars already

Old diesel

I wonder how many people stung by the likes of the dieselgate fix or the BMW EGR farce will be interested in a proven to be reliable solid proven hybrid solution.

This isn't neccessarily a lose a big bunch of customers and gain no new customers for Toyota situation.

road_high

Old diesel wrote: »

I wonder how many people stung by the likes of the dieselgate fix or the BMW EGR farce will be interested in a proven to be reliable solid proven hybrid solution.

This isn't neccessarily a lose a big bunch of customers and gain no new customers for Toyota situation.

Well I think the swing is already well back in favor of petrol but not 100% of sales. I think a 65:35 % split is probably where the market lies

Wildly Boaring

Old diesel wrote: »

I wonder how many people stung by the likes of the dieselgate fix or the BMW EGR farce will be interested in a proven to be reliable solid proven hybrid solution.

This isn't neccessarily a lose a big bunch of customers and gain no new customers for Toyota situation.

In reality no one bar the taxman stung by diesel gate.
Very very few BMW drivers gonna buy Toyotas

Old diesel

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

In reality no one bar the taxman stung by diesel gate.
Very very few BMW drivers gonna buy Toyotas

People were reporting issues with the fix, reduced power, higher fuel consumption, EGR valves failing earlier

Toyotafanboi

Old diesel wrote: »

People were reporting issues with the fix, reduced power, higher fuel consumption, EGR valves failing earlier

In the scheme of the "fix", not that many people got stung with issues and those with a tangible issue had the faults rectified FOC.

The only financial catches might be having to take half a day off to visit a dealer and and perceived higher fuel consumption.

As per the many many threads on here though, I don't think it's reduced our national appetite for VW's and i'd say it won't compromise BMW much either tbh.

Leonard Hofstadter

Old diesel wrote: »

People were reporting issues with the fix, reduced power, higher fuel consumption, EGR valves failing earlier

There are no issues with BMW's EGR fix (once they actually get around to fixing it:pac:).

scooby77

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

But it is deffo going to have an effect in this country.

I've an uncle who buys new Toyotas every year or 2 of every 3 anyway between him and his wife. And I mean this is a fanatic

RAV up for renewal and he wont buy a new one. The towing capacity is stupidly low. 850kg?

I reckon he'll end in a tiguan. He's not even sure yet.

He's also looking very seriously at leaf for the second car next year. Toyota going to have a full EV?

2 friends, female, 40s, have 2014 Rav4s. Both like them but both updating this year. Don't want automatic, not keen on Hybrid. Also think Rav4 pricey. Both looking at Tucsons- coming from Toyota only families! (Towing defo not an issue!)
Have heard few "older" Toyota fans complaining in particular about price.

Wildly Boaring

scooby77 wrote: »

2 friends, female, 40s, have 2014 Rav4s. Both like them but both updating this year. Don't want automatic, not keen on Hybrid. Also think Rav4 pricey. Both looking at Tucsons- coming from Toyota only families! (Towing defo not an issue!)
Have heard few "older" Toyota fans complaining in particular about price.

Yeah they're very dear now.
Rav Luna with metallic 38250 plus delivery so 39000

Kuga or ateca diesel down around 31 or 32 with similar spec.
Rav always been slightly dearer but they've really put a big jump up on new model.

There are CRVs from 34000, know which I'd prefer

sk8board

Old diesel wrote: »

I wonder how many people stung by the likes of the dieselgate fix or the BMW EGR farce will be interested in a proven to be reliable solid proven hybrid solution.

As someone with a car in both camps, I can safely say I couldn’t care less and neither impacted me in any way in reality.

KFed

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Yeah they're very dear now.
Rav Luna with metallic 38250 plus delivery so 39000

Kuga or ateca diesel down around 31 or 32 with similar spec.
Rav always been slightly dearer but they've really put a big jump up on new model.

There are CRVs from 34000, know which I'd prefer

&ybrod crv is about 38k also isn't it. No more diesel crv. Paid 34k on 2016 for the 1.6 manual. Model with camera and sensors. The hybrid more expensive now for basically same economy but the tech and emissions almost certainly better.

Are all brands not inflating prices now. I proved up a new 320d and it came to 60k with one or two options ticked.

AMKC

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Yeah they're very dear now.
Rav Luna with metallic 38250 plus delivery so 39000

Kuga or ateca diesel down around 31 or 32 with similar spec.
Rav always been slightly dearer but they've really put a big jump up on new model.

There are CRVs from 34000, know which I'd prefer

Kia Sportage can be got for 30k with better spec than most of them now.

KFed wrote: »

&ybrod crv is about 38k also isn't it. No more diesel crv. Paid 34k on 2016 for the 1.6 manual. Model with camera and sensors. The hybrid more expensive now for basically same economy but the tech and emissions almost certainly better.

Are all brands not inflating prices now. I proved up a new 320d and it came to 60k with one or two options ticked.

Jeez that's making my uncles brand new in 2007 E-Class for 60k look like good value. To be fair its still going and still in great condition too.

road_high

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Yeah they're very dear now.
Rav Luna with metallic 38250 plus delivery so 39000

Kuga or ateca diesel down around 31 or 32 with similar spec.
Rav always been slightly dearer but they've really put a big jump up on new model.

There are CRVs from 34000, know which I'd prefer

I think a lot of people can afford a new car up to early mid 30k’s. Once it starts going much beyond that you’re in the realm of expensive territory and there is a lot of keen alternatives vying for the same customers.
People wouldn’t have much issue with petrol/hybrid only in Yaris and Corolla class cars. Start getting bigger then fuel economy starts being more of a concern

ml100

road_high wrote: »

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Yeah they're very dear now.
Rav Luna with metallic 38250 plus delivery so 39000

Kuga or ateca diesel down around 31 or 32 with similar spec.
Rav always been slightly dearer but they've really put a big jump up on new model.

There are CRVs from 34000, know which I'd prefer

I think a lot of people can afford a new car up to early mid 30k’s. Once it starts going much beyond that you’re in the realm of expensive territory and there is a lot of keen alternatives vying for the same customers.
People wouldn’t have much issue with petrol/hybrid only in Yaris and Corolla class cars. Start getting bigger then fuel economy starts being more of a concern

I noticed that with these SUV's like the kuga etc, there new WLPT emission figures are very high, these are not being used for vrt % yet, when they are that will make these cars very expensive!, I think the whole PCP phenomena has push the price of new cars up, the 0% apr is being priced into the new car price, plus the manufatures are pushing higher spec to make them more attractive at 3 years to help the dealers get rid of them, I think when these new emissions start kicking in you will see people switching back to the family hatchback whose price wont be affected as much by WLPT.

DaveyDave

ml100 wrote: »

I noticed that with these SUV's like the kuga etc, there new WLPT emission figures are very high, these are not being used for vrt % yet, when they are that will make these cars very expensive!, I think the whole PCP phenomena has push the price of new cars up, the 0% apr is being priced into the new car price, plus the manufatures are pushing higher spec to make them more attractive at 3 years to help the dealers get rid of them, I think when these new emissions start kicking in you will see people switching back to the family hatchback whose price wont be affected as much by WLPT.

You're not the first person to suggest 0% APR is increasing the cost of cars. Not every car is 0% though. As far as I know VW aren't currently doing 0%. When I got my 0% Golf Highline all the other Golfs were 1.9%. Seat and Skoda are 3.9% I think and all the other VW models had some APR on them. I'd say 0% makes up very little of their PCP sales, plenty of people are still driving lower spec cars and 0% is limited to a specific trim and even tied to petrol or diesel, not necessarily both.

Fleet discounts have been around forever along with big discounts on 6 month old demo models so there's other places where dealers are losing money.

Also keep in mind Ford put massive discounts on the Kuga and Mondeo, if the price is going up it's possibly taking discounts into account because they aren't selling for those prices.

I'd be interested in seeing evidence of 0% pushing up prices, not saying it's untrue but there's still plenty of interest going around across their range and on top of that they're likely still making money on 0% APR sales too by being a bank.

Wildly Boaring

ml100 wrote: »

I noticed that with these SUV's like the kuga etc, there new WLPT emission figures are very high, these are not being used for vrt % yet, when they are that will make these cars very expensive!, I think the whole PCP phenomena has push the price of new cars up, the 0% apr is being priced into the new car price, plus the manufatures are pushing higher spec to make them more attractive at 3 years to help the dealers get rid of them, I think when these new emissions start kicking in you will see people switching back to the family hatchback whose price wont be affected as much by WLPT.

I think the crossover is now the family car and there'll be no going back to hatchbacks.

At creche yesterday around 8.30, usually in before the masses, wall to wall crossovers. Couldn't convince my wife to drive anything else with kids about.

Also pensioners love the height. My dad far preferred his kuga to my last 5 series. 5 series streets ahead in comfort and finish. He's only mid 60s and no way would only get into it if badly stuck.


Another current Toyota downfall. They're up at 4 and 5% apr on PCP.

ml100

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

ml100 wrote: »

I noticed that with these SUV's like the kuga etc, there new WLPT emission figures are very high, these are not being used for vrt % yet, when they are that will make these cars very expensive!, I think the whole PCP phenomena has push the price of new cars up, the 0% apr is being priced into the new car price, plus the manufatures are pushing higher spec to make them more attractive at 3 years to help the dealers get rid of them, I think when these new emissions start kicking in you will see people switching back to the family hatchback whose price wont be affected as much by WLPT.

I think the crossover is now the family car and there'll be no going back to hatchbacks.

At creche yesterday around 8.30, usually in before the masses, wall to wall crossovers. Couldn't convince my wife to drive anything else with kids about.

Also pensioners love the height. My dad far preferred his kuga to my last 5 series. 5 series streets ahead in comfort and finish. He's only mid 60s and no way would only get into it if badly stuck.


Another current Toyota downfall. They're up at 4 and 5% apr on PCP.

Agreed, they are very popular especially as the price/running costs are currently not that much hirer than smaller hatchback cars, but will you're dad still buy a new kuga when the road tax of the 2wd 2.0 diesel will jump to €1200 and vrt from 24% to 35% If the new WLPT is used for co2, this may not happen if the government adjust road tax and vrt when WLPT is fully used in 2020.

On the 0% apr, the purchaser is paying for it one way or the other, whether it's increased prices or no discounts.

knifey_spoonie

This one is quiet interesting, Below is just new vehicles registered to Limited Company's in January. These could be a combination of company vehicles, Demo's, Pre Reg's or Hire Vehicles.