Ulster vs Munster, Fri 21st Dec 7:35pm, Eir Sport 1

Faugheen

It's amazing how one game changes people's minds on here.

A couple of weeks ago people were saying JJ should keep his place for the trip to France, now he's crap.

He is exactly what he is, but if I were Munster I'd be having a look at the likes of Kevin O'Byrne and his ****e discipline before I look at JJ

Burkie1203

Faugheen wrote: »

He is exactly what he is, but if I were Munster I'd be having a look at the likes of Kevin O'Byrne and his ****e discipline before I look at JJ

Yeah there is a pattern emerging there. Lacking leadership too.

Scythica

Well i was close in guessing 10 point win.

The stadium is very nice to be fair? Found the crowd to be a lot more football like from memory..

Think there was a bit of relief when Robs tackle was only a yellow, but Munster certainly seemed to get a lot of close calls their way too.

Gotta say tho, ive been banging the Addison drum for a while, but he surprised me even more tonight. He's an obvious leader in the defensive line and was marshalling people well.

Another bit i liked was the constant talking he was doing to everyone, and made a point of running over and hi5ing people after different plays etc. Great work ethic.

Not a glamerous win, and perhaps Munster did better given the teams.. but another gritty win for an Ulster side that's been lacking that bite for so long. Bring on the Westies!

jacothelad

A few thoughts on the game.


That was a reasonably strong effort from Munster full of industry and grunt and given how few of the team would actually usually be in the starting 15, it bodes well for strength in depth.


It was good to see TOD back and Sherry is one of the most unlucky guys around. A few years back he looked set for a decent international career. Great that he has made it back.



JJ is a talented rugby player but seems to lack an obvious position to use his skills to the full. His defence is good, he has a good step and good pace......




Munster had greater physicality and indeed seemed to have confidence and self belief and were faster to think on their feet in the close exchanges. They exposed Ulster's main weakness....lack of beastliness.



Balacoune should have had a red I think but he has serious speed and acceleration is great. A good prospect indeed. Imagine having him, Aaron Sexton, Gilroy, Lyttle and Stockdale as the outside backs from which to choose. It's a pity Ulster don't have the same level of prospects in the forwards.



Some of the high tackle penalties are now laughable. It seems if you put your hand on an opponent's shoulder you get penalised while some torpedo charges hurtling into rucks are ignored. It also seems that you can now enter a ruck at 90 degrees and ahead of the ball with impunity. Also how can refs not see the difference between guys not rolling away and players being deliberately held in to rucks or are simply trapped and can't get out of the way.





Ulster deserved the win but were less than convincing. Still lack power and strength in depth. McCall is no longer up to it so Ulster desperately need a loose head prop or two and a big, ignorant second row...someone like Kleyn would be great



I doubt that Munster have much to worry about in the league but they won't catch Glasgow.

awec

Someone find a gif of Coetzee with a Munster player in each hand.

yerrahbah

I guess we can expect Baloucoune to be cited?

molloyjh

Faugheen wrote: »

What else is Botha supposed to do when the ball pops out at his feet?

Truly bizarre call there

Either the ball was out and he tackled Shanahan off the ball, or it wasn’t out and he played the scrum half. A penalty either way IMO.

bilston

Watched the game in a pub but did the Munster player not land on his shoulder...therefore surely yellow is fair? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the law.

Anyway from an Ulster POV, the players that stood out were Coetzee, Addison and Hume (even though he only played for 15 minutes). Shanahan did ok off the bench.

I'm glad of the 4 points which is what matters.

prawnsambo

bilston wrote: »

Watched the game in a pub but did the Munster player not land on his shoulder...therefore surely yellow is fair? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the law.

Anyway from an Ulster POV, the players that stood out were Coetzee, Addison and Hume (even though he only played for 15 minutes). Shanahan did ok off the bench.

I'm glad of the 4 points which is what matters.

Thought Shanahan was pretty good tbh. Added a bit of zip to the game and has a fair turn of speed. Still a bit raw, but he has all the makings of a very good scrum half.

launish116

prawnsambo wrote: »

Thought Shanahan was pretty good tbh. Added a bit of zip to the game and has a fair turn of speed. Still a bit raw, but he has all the makings of a very good scrum half.

Not to mention always seems to be running a line in a build up to a try. People have talked about Stockdale scoring, Shanahan has scored a few this season also!

Utah_Saint

Dubinusa wrote: »

I wonder if they would be better served by playing Johnson or Keatley?
I know Keatley has his own issues, but JJ is not a 10. At best he's AIL standard.

I've always wondered about JJ. Most Munster fans appear to give him infinite second chances. I feel they are clinging to his u20 form in the hope he fulfil it. I think that ship has sailed. Play Keats or Johnson.

Bridge93

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I've always wondered about JJ. Most Munster fans appear to give him infinite second chances. I feel they are clinging to his u20 form in the hope he fulfil it. I think that ship has sailed. Play Keats or Johnson.

If jj’s Ship has sailed then keatleys is somewhere in the mid Atlantic by now. Johnson and Carbery should be the two who get most the gametime

Utah_Saint

Bridge93 wrote: »

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I've always wondered about JJ. Most Munster fans appear to give him infinite second chances. I feel they are clinging to his u20 form in the hope he fulfil it. I think that ship has sailed. Play Keats or Johnson.

If jj’s Ship has sailed then keatleys is somewhere in the mid Atlantic by now. Johnson and Carbery should be the two who get most the gametime

Yeah, fair point about keatley

bilston

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I've always wondered about JJ. Most Munster fans appear to give him infinite second chances. I feel they are clinging to his u20 form in the hope he fulfil it. I think that ship has sailed. Play Keats or Johnson.

I'd play JJ as a 12. He is basically the modern day Paddy Wallace. Not consistently good enough for 10, but still has excellent playmaking abilities that can be used at 12 where there is less pressure to run the game.

Heymans

bilston wrote: »

I'd play JJ as a 12. He is basically the modern day Paddy Wallace. Not consistently good enough for 10, but still has excellent playmaking abilities that can be used at 12 where there is less pressure to run the game.

Not good enough for 12 either.

shootermacg

Heymans wrote: »

Not good enough for 12 either.

He's just not very good at rugby tbh. He excels at turning an advantage into a disadvantage. Knock-ons, missed tackles, bad passing he's just a liability.

Dubinusa

I was pissed off when JJ left for Northhampton. But, Axel viewed him daily in training and preferred Keatley. I thought at the time that JJ was maybe a year away from being the 1st choice 10 for Munster.
His time at the Saints wasn't good. He couldn't lock down the 10 shirt.
Since he's come back, he's been awful imo. He can't stay consistent and string a run of quality outings together.
He may have reached his potential as an u20, as a 10.
I could see him being an option at fb.
What's just as worrying though, is that VanGrann doesn't give Johnson a look in.
I hope Johnson is not as poor an option as JJ.

Akrasia

Bridge93 wrote: »

If jj’s Ship has sailed then keatleys is somewhere in the mid Atlantic by now. Johnson and Carbery should be the two who get most the gametime

Until Johnston has a bad game and the knives are out for him too...

CatFromHue

the difference is Keatley has shown that he can be good, JJ hasn't really shown that yet

kuang1

CatFromHue wrote: »

the difference is Keatley has shown that he can be good, JJ hasn't really shown that yet

I'm not JJ's biggest fan... But who was MOTM in Thomand against Castres?

Jump_In_Jack

molloyjh wrote: »

Either the ball was out and he tackled Shanahan off the ball, or it wasn’t out and he played the scrum half. A penalty either way IMO.

I’d have to watch it again but I thought Botha picked up the ball after it clearly rolled out and the prone player reached out to stop the ball rolling. I don’t remember a tackle on Shanahan. Are you sure you are correct in what you posted?

Edit- watched it back and Botha was hard done by according to Stephen Ferris, so I’ll leave it at that.

elliot_st

shootermacg wrote: »

He's just not very good at rugby tbh. He excels at turning an advantage into a disadvantage. Knock-ons, missed tackles, bad passing he's just a liability.

his ability has been coached out of him by a series of poor coaches.

shootermacg

elliot_st wrote: »

his ability has been coached out of him by a series of poor coaches.

If a guy can't perform the basics then he has no place on the pitch, let alone at 10. There's nothing stand out about Ross Byrne, but he does the basics well and doesn't punish his pack.

JJ will generally piss away any advantage through poor decisions and poor handling. Munster don't need a 10/10 10. A consistent average 10 who does the basics would be more than enough.

joseywhales

shootermacg wrote: »

If a guy can't perform the basics then he has no place on the pitch, let alone at 10. There's nothing stand out about Ross Byrne, but he does the basics well and doesn't punish his pack.

JJ will generally piss away any advantage through poor decisions and poor handling. Munster don't need a 10/10 10. A consistent average 10 who does the basics would be more than enough.

So keatley then? They need carbery and they have him, it will be a couple of years before he is integrated.

shootermacg

joseywhales wrote: »

So keatley then? They need carbery and they have him, it will be a couple of years before he is integrated.

Bill Johnson hasn't really put a foot wrong so far. But yeah until the trip to SA I would have been a fan of Keatley over JJ.

Keatley has the occasional brain fart but generally runs a good game. I wouldn't have Keatley taking the place kicks but other than that he's generally a much better footballer than JJ.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

I'd play JJ as a 12. He is basically the modern day Paddy Wallace. Not consistently good enough for 10, but still has excellent playmaking abilities that can be used at 12 where there is less pressure to run the game.

When he was 28, Wallace was starting against the All Blacks in NZ and actually looking like he belonged on the pitch. He then started a couple of games the following year in the Grand Slam campaign. JJH is 26 now...does anyone think he's going to devleop that much in the next 2 years?

100% worth holding onto. He's just never going to be what people thought he would be some day.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

When he was 28, Wallace was starting against the All Blacks in NZ and actually looking like he belonged on the pitch. He then started a couple of games the following year in the Grand Slam campaign. JJH is 26 now...does anyone think he's going to devleop that much in the next 2 years?

100% worth holding onto. He's just never going to be what people thought he would be some day.

Paddy Wallace was about 26 when he first started playing 12 for Ulster. Before that he was playing 10 or 15. That's partly why I was making the comparison.

Elvisjuice

shootermacg wrote: »

If a guy can't perform the basics then he has no place on the pitch, let alone at 10. There's nothing stand out about Ross Byrne, but he does the basics well and doesn't punish his pack.

JJ will generally piss away any advantage through poor decisions and poor handling. Munster don't need a 10/10 10. A consistent average 10 who does the basics would be more than enough.

talking muck , his confidence was knocked out of him from someone who is gone

shootermacg

Elvisjuice wrote: »

talking muck , his confidence was knocked out of him from someone who is gone

So what do you suggest?

Utah_Saint

Full match on YouTube

Dubinusa

Good match. Very much an arm wrestle. Ulster have a backline that can do damage.
Munster backline looked like the couldn't score in a phone booth. No cohesion and no invention.
The packs were very physical and I though O Shea and Nagle were the stand outs.
Not sure what to make of Munstet? How can they not be able to spread the ball along the backline and stretch the defense? They look like a bunch of individuals out there.
The hooker KOB is a yapper. Constantly involved in afters. I thought Coetzee was going to wring his neck when he grabbed a hold of him.
Next week Munster will go full tilt against Leinster. They had better work on their back line play, as Leinstet showed yesterday they can score tries at anytime from anywhere.

Cookiemunster

Baloucoune's been cited for the tackle on Sweetnam.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/12/24/disciplinary-update-round-11/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=PRO14Official&utm_content=Disciplinary%20Update%20-%20Round%2011

Jump_In_Jack

Dubinusa wrote: »

Good match. Very much an arm wrestle. Ulster have a backline that can do damage.
Munster backline looked like the couldn't score in a phone booth. No cohesion and no invention.
The packs were very physical and I though O Shea and Nagle were the stand outs.
Not sure what to make of Munstet? How can they not be able to spread the ball along the backline and stretch the defense? They look like a bunch of individuals out there.
The hooker KOB is a yapper. Constantly involved in afters. I thought Coetzee was going to wring his neck when he grabbed a hold of him.
Next week Munster will go full tilt against Leinster. They had better work on their back line play, as Leinstet showed yesterday they can score tries at anytime from anywhere.

What was that supposed to mean?

bilston

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Baloucoune's been cited for the tackle on Sweetnam.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/12/24/disciplinary-update-round-11/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=PRO14Official&utm_content=Disciplinary%20Update%20-%20Round%2011

He should probably put on a nice suit, accept the charge, apologise and maybe his youth and previous clean record will get a couple of weeks off and he will get a 2 week ban.

Dubinusa

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

What was that supposed to mean?

If the field is a phone booth, and the entire Munster backline is it, they'd fail to find the try line.

Tomtom364

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Baloucoune's been cited for the tackle on Sweetnam.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/12/24/disciplinary-update-round-11/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=PRO14Official&utm_content=Disciplinary%20Update%20-%20Round%2011

Pretty annoying to have two games in a row resulting in tight losses away where the opposition should have been down to 14 men for the vast majority of the game but for poor officiating.

troyzer

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Baloucoune's been cited for the tackle on Sweetnam.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/12/24/disciplinary-update-round-11/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=PRO14Official&utm_content=Disciplinary%20Update%20-%20Round%2011

Pretty annoying to have two games in a row resulting in tight losses away where the opposition should have been down to 14 men for the vast majority of the game but for poor officiating.

And they call Leinster the ladyboys.....

kuang1

troyzer wrote: »

And they call Leinster the ladyboys.....

Yes they still do.
Ain't it grand.

troyzer

kuang1 wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

And they call Leinster the ladyboys.....

Yes they still do.
Ain't it grand.

Munster have played nine games away from home so far this season and have only won two of them, against Cheetahs and Zebre.

And they constantly bitch and moan about referees.

= Ladyboys.

Sirius Boner

Christmas cheer lads, shall we take a day off?

Heymans

troyzer wrote: »

Munster have played nine games away from home so far this season and have only won two of them, against Cheetahs and Zebre.

And they constantly bitch and moan about referees.

= Ladyboys.

Add in Conor Murray "if I'm not alright I won't want to play against the All Blacks" = ladyboy.

phog

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Baloucoune's been cited for the tackle on Sweetnam.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/12/24/disciplinary-update-round-11/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=PRO14Official&utm_content=Disciplinary%20Update%20-%20Round%2011

Unfortunately, no surprise about the citing and for me (from the terrace) it looked very much like the ref only wanted to award a penalty. It looked like the AR pushed him towards using the TMO and as I haven't seen the game on TV yet I'm assuming the ref looked for an opt out from using a red card.

The ref was poorbut Munster left 3 points behind them but in the end were lucky to get a LBP.

jacothelad

phog wrote: »

Unfortunately, no surprise about the citing and for me (from the terrace) it looked very much like the ref only wanted to award a penalty. It looked like the AR pushed him towards using the TMO and as I haven't seen the game on TV yet I'm assuming the ref looked for an opt out from using a red card.

The ref was poorbut Munster left 3 points behind them but in the end were lucky to get a LBP.

I suspect that if it had been done to an Ulster player, Ulster fans would have expected a red card. It was pretty clear to me that it was reckless and dangerous and needed a red. It needs to be stamped out.

phog

2 week ban for Baloucoune

salmocab

phog wrote: »

Unfortunately, no surprise about the citing and for me (from the terrace) it looked very much like the ref only wanted to award a penalty. It looked like the AR pushed him towards using the TMO and as I haven't seen the game on TV yet I'm assuming the ref looked for an opt out from using a red card.

The ref was poorbut Munster left 3 points behind them but in the end were lucky to get a LBP.

I’d say if that happened even 10 minutes later it was a red. It bugs me that sometimes things are reffed differently because of the stage of a match.

Burkie1203

salmocab wrote: »

I’d say if that happened even 10 minutes later it was a red. It bugs me that sometimes things are reffed differently because of the stage of a match.

Ashley Johnston on Dave Kearney in 2015 (i think) another example