Ulster vs Munster, Fri 21st Dec 7:35pm, Eir Sport 1

thomond2006

Ulster team to play Munster, Guinness PRO14, Friday 21st December, Kingspan Stadium (7.35pm):

(15-9): L Ludik; H Speight, W Addison, S McCloskey, R Baloucoune; B Burns, J Cooney;
(1-8): E O’Sullivan, R Herring (captain), M Moore, I Nagle, K Treadwell, S Reidy, J Murphy, M Coetzee;

Replacements (16-23): R Best, K McCall, R Kane, C Ross, N Timoney, D Shanahan, J McPhillips, J Hume.

Munster:
Mike Haley; Darren Sweetnam, Sammy Arnold, Jaco Taute (C), Alex Wootton; JJ Hanrahan, Alby Mathewson;
Jeremy Loughman, Kevin O’Byrne, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Darren O’Shea; Fineen Wycherley, Conor Oliver, Arno Botha.

Replacements: Mike Sherry, Dave Kilcoyne, Ciaran Parker, Gavin Coombes, Tommy O’Donnell, Neil Cronin, Bill Johnston, Shane Daly.

Match Officials

Referee: Sean Gallagher (IRFU)
Assistant Referees: Nigel Correll, Leo Colgan (both IRFU)
TMO: Brian MacNeice (IRFU)

Good to see Tommy back. Looking at those two teams I'd be expecting Ulster to win this one - should be a terrific game.

bilston

No Stockdale or Best...I wonder why.

Also I'm starting to wonder whether our young forwards are rated at all by the management. I suppose we will get a better idea over the next two weeks

Buer

bilston wrote: »

No Stockdale or Best...I wonder why.

Also I'm starting to wonder whether our young forwards are rated at all by the management. I suppose we will get a better idea over the next two weeks

Each province will swapping first team and second team this Christmas (possibly not Connacht as there's no difference) as they target specific games. I imagine Ulster will send a far more developmental team to Galway next week before fielding a mostly full strength team in the RDS to prepare for the Racing game.

elliot_st

bilston wrote: »

No Stockdale or Best...I wonder why.

Also I'm starting to wonder whether our young forwards are rated at all by the management. I suppose we will get a better idea over the next two weeks

which forwards? they were hardly great for 20s last season.

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

No Stockdale or Best...I wonder why.

Also I'm starting to wonder whether our young forwards are rated at all by the management. I suppose we will get a better idea over the next two weeks

Except Best is on the bench.

Try_harder

Glad to see Tommy included in the squad

Dubinusa

Surprised to see Cave omitted. Thought Addison would have rested.
Lots of returning Munster lads. Keatley appears to be done with Munster. Maybe he should ask for a loan deal and finish out the season elsewhere?
I thought Carberry would have got a run. At least to try get some rhythm after last weeks performance.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Except Best is on the bench.

Didn't notice that

stephen_n

Given the teams I would fancy Ulster to win this, they will certainly be motivated after TP.

aloooof

Dubinusa wrote: »

Keatley appears to be done with Munster. Maybe he should ask for a loan deal and finish out the season elsewhere?

Similar enough to the Duncan Casey situation last season, I wouldn't be surprised if this happened.

bilston

Two Ulster born players (McCloskey and Balacoune) in the starting XV and just three Ulster academy products if you include Eric O'Sullivan.

Bridge93

bilston wrote: »

Two Ulster born players (McCloskey and Balacoune) in the starting XV and just three Ulster academy products if you include Eric O'Sullivan.

Munster only have 6 munster born lads in their starting fifteen too.

Cookiemunster

Bridge93 wrote: »

Munster only have 6 munster born lads in their starting fifteen too.

True but all 6 plus Wooten and Oliver were in our academy plus 7 of the 8 on the bench are from Munster.

Dubinusa

What's the story on Gilroy? Is he injured?
It's going to be strange to see Nagle start a match! Particularly against Munster. I hope he goes well. Be good for Ulster and a huge booster for him.

jacothelad

Dubinusa wrote: »

What's the story on Gilroy? Is he injured?
It's going to be strange to see Nagle start a match! Particularly against Munster. I hope he goes well. Be good for Ulster and a huge booster for him.

Gilroy has a back injury.....

stephen_n

jacothelad wrote: »

Gilroy has a back injury.....

Well he’d hardly have a forward injury

jacothelad

stephen_n wrote: »

Well he’d hardly have a forward injury

His back injury prevents him going forward....:D

yerrahbah

That's a strong Ulster team. Munster will do well to get a LBP

Reckon Addison could do damage against our centres.

Be interesting to see how Taute, JJ and Conor Oliver get on

Reckon Wooton will have his hands full with Speight too

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

Gilroy has a back injury.....

Broken toenail?

thomond2006

This is a massive game for Taute. He's the experienced player in that backline and needs a big showing or he could be a tackle bag holder for the majority of games.

kuang1

thomond2006 wrote: »

This is a massive game for Taute. He's the experienced player in that backline and needs a big showing or he could be a tackle bag holder for the majority of games.

I wonder is this the equivalent of a job interview for him. Sh1t or get off the pot.

Buer

I'd be surprised if the decision wasn't made already to release Taute after this season. He's taking up a NIQ spot and would be on a decent wedge. I hope Munster do move him on. He's not really needed and will never be able to play for Ireland. With Goggin now having come through, it makes zero sense to retain Taute.

That will free up at least one NIQ spot for Munster which they can put to some use for next season. I wouldn't be surprised if they sought to bring in a quality back three player. After Conway and Earls, there's a drop to Haley and Sweetnam and then another, bigger drop down to the rest.

thomond2006

Taute is definitely going. Munster are stacked at centre with Scannell, Arnold, Farrell and Goggin as well as one or two utility players.

aloooof

I'd say Goggin must be our most improved player this season? Was playing some great stuff before his injury.

Sinbad_NI

Just eatched the corresponding match from last year again (I'm sad like that).

How in the hell did we get a win never mind a BP after the shambles of the first half from the pack I'll never know.
Really brought home how awful we were last year.

stephen_n

thomond2006 wrote: »

This is a massive game for Taute. He's the experienced player in that backline and needs a big showing or he could be a tackle bag holder for the majority of games.

He was a bit of a turnstile the last time he played? Addison might have fun with him.

Cookiemunster

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Just eatched the corresponding match from last year again (I'm sad like that).

How in the hell did we get a win never mind a BP after the shambles of the first half from the pack I'll never know.
Really brought home how awful we were last year.

Munster collapsed after the yellow and red cards. Although saying that we weren't that good in the first half either IIRC. 3 trys off line outs wasn't it?

Jump_In_Jack

stephen_n wrote: »

He was a bit of a turnstile the last time he played? Addison might have fun with him.

Arnold is opposite Addison

Jump_In_Jack

Buer wrote: »

I'd be surprised if the decision wasn't made already to release Taute after this season. He's taking up a NIQ spot and would be on a decent wedge. I hope Munster do move him on. He's not really needed and will never be able to play for Ireland. With Goggin now having come through, it makes zero sense to retain Taute.

That will free up at least one NIQ spot for Munster which they can put to some use for next season. I wouldn't be surprised if they sought to bring in a quality back three player. After Conway and Earls, there's a drop to Haley and Sweetnam and then another, bigger drop down to the rest.

Wootton is a lot closer to Sweetnam than you think.

Buer

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Wootton is a lot closer to Sweetnam than you think.

You're probably right. He was getting the nod ahead of him in Europe last season. Sweetnam has gone very well this season though to put some daylight between them though, I think. I doubt there's any hesitation in the minds of the coaches right now on which they'd select.

Regardless, I think that Munster could improve on things there with a good quality NIQ signing. Sweetnam and Wootton are both approaching a stage where they're not far off reaching their ceilings and, with Earls turning 32 by the end of the RWC, I think it's something that could be looked at.

aloooof

ROM unlikely to be re-signed as well, you'd imagine. He's 29 now, often surprised by his age.

Peregrine

This thread is a stark contrast to the Leinster vs Leinster Rejects thread. Where's the festive interpro rivalry??

Stockdale > Earls. Discuss.

Peregrine

aloooof wrote: »

ROM unlikely to be re-signed as well, you'd imagine. He's 29 now, often surprised by his age.

I never would have guessed he was 29. He only really broke out 3-4 years ago.

Buer

Peregrine wrote: »

This thread is a stark contrast to the Leinster vs Leinster Rejects thread. Where's the festive interpro rivalry??

Stockdale > Earls. Discuss.

At least give something that's a genuine debate.

Earls or Gilroy? Earls probably better defensively but Gilroy definitely more incisive in attack and better kicking game.

Peregrine

Buer wrote: »

At least give something that's a genuine debate.

Earls or Gilroy? Earls probably better defensively but Gilroy definitely more incisive in attack and better kicking game.

Gilroy but Earls is the better 13.

bilston

Addison or Conway?
Shanahan or Murray?

Jump_In_Jack

Buer wrote: »

You're probably right. He was getting the nod ahead of him in Europe last season. Sweetnam has gone very well this season though to put some daylight between them though, I think. I doubt there's any hesitation in the minds of the coaches right now on which they'd select.

Regardless, I think that Munster could improve on things there with a good quality NIQ signing. Sweetnam and Wootton are both approaching a stage where they're not far off reaching their ceilings and, with Earls turning 32 by the end of the RWC, I think it's something that could be looked at.

I think we have the following depth right now in our back 3:
11. Earls, Wootton, O'Mahony,
14. Conway, Sweetnam, Nash
15. Haley, [Conway], Fitzgerald,

I could see us keeping all of the above for another season (extending O'Mahony's and Fitzgerald's contracts by one year), and adding in Shane Daly (centre/wing), Liam Coombes (wing/fullback), James McCarthy (wing/fullback) and Alan Tynan (out-half/fullback) from the academy, there are plenty of talented young players to choose from.

I don't think Munster need any new NIE's for next year. Botha will likelybe the only NIE next year.
I'm not sure if there are any project players on the radar either. Cloete and a couple of South African academy players will surely be the only NIQ's next year.
It's quite possible that by the end of next season Botha could be released and Cloete will be a few months from being Irish eligible. There may be no NIE/NIQ signings at all after that, or very few and exceptional signings only.

Ulster fans, probably awec

Ulster fans, probably awec wrote:

Really disappointing Carbery didn't start this one. I'd say Burns would have relished the opportunity to put him in his place.

Munster fans, probably Thomond wrote:

Really disappointing Henderson didn't start this one. I'd say Beirne would have relished the opportunity to put him in his place.

Ah lads, reign it in - it's just a game.

Dubinusa

Wootton is a poor defender. Swetnam is ahead of him based on that fact alone.
I hope to see Nash break out. I think he could be top quality.
ROM was going great until injury, but they may let him go. Fitzgerald is buried, hasn't made any impact, so he may probably go also.
Shane Daly is in a tough situation. He's a 13 and will be behind Farrell and Arnold. They are both young and Daly may be holding pads for years. It's a shame, as he is a good talent.
Lots of depth though and lots of quality. Quite a turnaround since the days of Hurley et al.

thomond2006

The RWC will give opportunities to those players to stamp their place on the depth chart. Earls will definitely be absent and Conway is a probable absentee at this stage imo.

stephen_n

I love watching Wootton play, his defense isn’t that bad. He’s just subject to lapses, as most young wingers are. Hope he improves as he goes, because he’s a great talent.

Scythica

Back in the homeland for Xmas - first home ulster game going too in about 3 years.

Ulster by 10.... or not.

awec

Scythica wrote: »

Back in the homeland for Xmas - first home ulster game going too in about 3 years.

Ulster by 10.... or not.

I think this fixture last year was the last time I went to watch Ulster.

Sinbad_NI

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Munster collapsed after the yellow and red cards. Although saying that we weren't that good in the first half either IIRC. 3 trys off line outs wasn't it?

Something like that yes, penalty try from a driving mail on 1 of them I think.

Difficult to gauge how Munster were as Ulster were so awful until the cards. Guess you weren't great otherwise we'd have been dead and buried by 25 mins in.

padraig.od

Anybody have a link for this? My usual place is no longer available

Former Observer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah lads, reign it in - it's just a game.

Game me hole. This is the robust physicalisation of the human spirit. Live and die by the sword. And believe me, the men from the North shall die, crunched under foot by our brutal, beautiful warmachines.

awec

awec wrote: »

I think this fixture last year was the last time I went to watch Ulster.

At least you get to watch the future stars of Ulster here in Dublin when the internationals are away...:pac:

Hands Like Flippers

Is eir a pay channel is separate from rte etc? Trying to watch it on someone else's TV here

salmocab

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Is eir a pay channel is separate from rte etc? Trying to watch it on someone else's TV here

Yeah

Larbre34

Dafuq was that laddo?