Getting an Au Pair

antodeco

Hi all,
Looking for some help. My wife is looking to go back to work full time in the new year, and as a result are looking for a live in Au Pair.

We both (will) work Mon - Fri. Myself, I'll leave about 7:15am and my wife about 6am. She returns about 4pm and myself about 7pm.

We have 2 children (1 is mid to late teens, and the other in preschool age). This means really only 1 child to be looked after. He attends school 9am to 12:30pm, 10 minutes walk away.

Is there anywhere someone would recommend to find au pairs, based on experience? I'd also like to know what the typical rates are for au pairs.

We will be offering them their own self contained flat (front door, garden, en suite bedroom, kitchen and living room, all bills covered), as "part payment". Assumption on this would then be around €120/€150 a week on top of this. Not sure if this is too much/too little as information online varies.

We live 15 minutes bus from Dublin city centre also. The expected requirements would be:

- look after youngest from 7am and drop off to school for 9am and collect at 12:30, and mind him until roughly 4:30pm, exception being school holidays where he will be looked after 7am to 4:30pm
- Light household duties
- Occasional evening minding (once or twice a month at most)

Thanks for any help.

ectoraige

When we looked for an aupair we advertised on a number of websites, easyaupair.com is the one we found ours on, but there were others, I can't remember. We had a number of email exchanges and then Skype interviews, first with just us, and then with the children, until we felt we'd found a good match for our family.

You will need to be paying any aupair €9.80 an hour, you can deduct €54.13 per week for room and board, so during the term you should be paying €239.87 per week. In the summertime where you're expecting a 47.5 hour working week, this will rise to €430.97 per week.

Are you or your wife able to obtain leave for term-time or reduce hours in the summer?

Subcomandante Marcos

antodeco wrote: »

Hi all,
Looking for some help. My wife is looking to go back to work full time in the new year, and as a result are looking for a live in Au Pair.

We both (will) work Mon - Fri. Myself, I'll leave about 7:15am and my wife about 6am. She returns about 4pm and myself about 7pm.

We have 2 children (1 is mid to late teens, and the other in preschool age). This means really only 1 child to be looked after. He attends school 9am to 12:30pm, 10 minutes walk away.

Is there anywhere someone would recommend to find au pairs, based on experience? I'd also like to know what the typical rates are for au pairs.

We will be offering them their own self contained flat (front door, garden, en suite bedroom, kitchen and living room, all bills covered), as "part payment". Assumption on this would then be around €120/€150 a week on top of this. Not sure if this is too much/too little as information online varies.

We live 15 minutes bus from Dublin city centre also. The expected requirements would be:

- look after youngest from 7am and drop off to school for 9am and collect at 12:30, and mind him until roughly 4:30pm, exception being school holidays where he will be looked after 7am to 4:30pm
- Light household duties
- Occasional evening minding (once or twice a month at most)

Thanks for any help.

So you want someone to look after your kids for less than minimum wage?

Niiiice.

antodeco

ectoraige wrote: »

When we looked for an aupair we advertised on a number of websites, easyaupair.com is the one we found ours on, but there were others, I can't remember. We had a number of email exchanges and then Skype interviews, first with just us, and then with the children, until we felt we'd found a good match for our family.

You will need to be paying any aupair €9.80 an hour, you can deduct €54.13 per week for room and board, so during the term you should be paying €239.87 per week. In the summertime where you're expecting a 47.5 hour working week, this will rise to €430.97 per week.

Are you or your wife able to obtain leave for term-time or reduce hours in the summer?

Thanks for this. It would make more sense for me to board them in the spare room in the house, as the deduction is only €220 for the month and I currently receive €1400 for the flat rented out.

Will need to relook at this, as I was calculating the cost of "full renting" towards the payment.

antodeco

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

So you want someone to look after your kids for less than minimum wage?

Niiiice.

Thanks for your useless post. I came on here asking for advise not for a smart comment. As mentioned,I was calculating the cost of renting towards their payment, but didn't know how it worked. I'm glad boards is so friendly towards people these days looking for advice.

Gwen Cooper

Hi there,

I used to work as an au-pair for over five years.

Based on what you're offering, you should have no problem finding an aupair beacause the accommodation sounds like a dream (most aupairs are stuck in a box room for the time of they stay) and the pay is a little bit above the average.

However, as other posters mentioned, there's the minimum wage thing. Aupair was never meant as a job, it was always considered more of a cultural exchange, so it had different rules for pay, the pay wasn't considered wages, it was always called pocket money.

In the last few years there were two court cases that I know about where an aupair sued their hostfamily for lost income and the family had to pay her back, I think that the family in the first case had to fork out €10,000.

I did an AMA on being aupair a few months ago, if you want to give it a read: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057914024

Sunflower 27

antodeco wrote: »

Thanks for your useless post. I came on here asking for advise not for a smart comment. As mentioned,I was calculating the cost of renting towards their payment, but didn't know how it worked. I'm glad boards is so friendly towards people these days looking for advice.

Sounds really low for someone to earn 120/week. Who would even live on that? Isn't the dole more (and you can get rent allowance)?

antodeco

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

Hi there,

I used to work as an au-pair for over five years.

Based on what you're offering, you should have no problem finding an aupair beacause the accommodation sounds like a dream (most aupairs are stuck in a box room for the time of they stay) and the pay is a little bit above the average.

However, as other posters mentioned, there's the minimum wage thing. Aupair was never meant as a job, it was always considered more of a cultural exchange, so it had different rules for pay, the pay wasn't considered wages, it was always called pocket money.

In the last few years there were two court cases that I know about where an aupair sued their hostfamily for lost income and the family had to pay her back, I think that the family in the first case had to fork out €10,000.

I did an AMA on being aupair a few months ago, if you want to give it a read: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057914024

I was actually reading that, didn't know it was you! Thanks

It seems that it makes more sense to put the au pair in a box room, rather than their own accommodation, based on how much the "bed and board" is only worth.

Gwen Cooper

antodeco wrote: »

I was actually reading that, didn't know it was you! Thanks

It seems that it makes more sense to put the au pair in a box room, rather than their own accommodation, based on how much the "bed and board" is only worth.

Oooh, nobody knew it was me - I just outed myself

Unfortunately for the aupair it will work out better for you if you put her to the box room and rent out the flat.

Regarding your previous question about where to find an aupair, I think your best bet is Facebook. There are groups like Dublin aupairs where you can post that you're looking for an aupair. The advantage of these groups is that most of the people in the group are already in the country, so you have a chance to meet them before offering them the position, which can be extremely helpful.

Before the Facebook days I was always looking for families on aupairworld.com. I tried other websites as well but found that aupairworld has the best search options and also most people looking. As a family you would have to pay a membership fee there to be able to get the aupair's contact details, I think it's about €50. Usually you have to pay it only once because you should be able to find an aupair (especially in Dublin city) in less than a month.

Another way is going through an agency. You would have to pay them a fee for finding you an aupair and I'm not sure how much freedom you would have in choosing one (might be that they will just send you one), but at least you would have clear terms & conditions regarding the pay and hours, so I think that you would be covered and wouldn't have to worry about being sued

antodeco

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Sounds really low for someone to earn 120/week. Who would even live on that? Isn't the dole more (and you can get rent allowance)?

That's why I was asking was it too much/too little. It seems like it makes more sense to keep the flat rented out and either have an Au Pair living in the spare room, or just have an Au Pair for the times as required. My daughter is 15 so there's no kidding required for her!

Sunflower 27

antodeco wrote: »

That's why I was asking was it too much/too little. It seems like it makes more sense to keep the flat rented out and either have an Au Pair living in the spare room, or just have an Au Pair for the times as required. My daughter is 15 so there's no kidding required for her!

I think I answered your post by saying it seems too little to me.

Why not just advertise to pay someone for the hours you need? Lots of people will already have accommodation. No way could I live on 120 a week. And a young person? They'd not be able to go out or enjoy themselves at all on that. It sounds like a terrible set up for them.

Neyite

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I think I answered your post by saying it seems too little to me.

Why not just advertise to pay someone for the hours you need? Lots of people will already have accommodation. No way could I live on 120 a week. And a young person? They'd not be able to go out or enjoy themselves at all on that. It sounds like a terrible set up for them.

An Au Pair is traditionally like a big sister role and a helping hand in the family rather than an all-day carer. Usually they get something beneficial in the trade such as freedom during school hours to attend language classes, free accommodation and all living expenses so whatthey got was just for them to spend on themselves rather than bills. It's basically pocket money for a bit of babysitting from 3pm to 6pm or whenever the parents get in from work.



I've never used one but my sister did - or rather she used a Demi-Pair where she and another parent with a similarly aged child teamed up and had one Au-Pair between them. The children were company for each other, each family paid about 65% of the average AuPair salary, so they got a bargain on childcare, and the AuPair got a better paid position than she usually would have got. All were happy with the arrangement, child is in mid teens now and the AuPair is still in touch with my sister.

antodeco

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I think I answered your post by saying it seems too little to me.

Why not just advertise to pay someone for the hours you need? Lots of people will already have accommodation. No way could I live on 120 a week. And a young person? They'd not be able to go out or enjoy themselves at all on that. It sounds like a terrible set up for them.

That is the other option. Would it be common enough for a childminder to come to a house for 7am and drop a child to school for 9 and then collect at 12:30 and mind until 4? That would be roughly €300 a week during school times, and €450 outside of school times. It was the "early start" that I thought I'd have trouble with.

Gwen Cooper

antodeco wrote: »

That is the other option. Would it be common enough for a childminder to come to a house for 7am and drop a child to school for 9 and then collect at 12:30 and mind until 4? That would be roughly €300 a week?

It would be common in Dublin where there are a lot of Brazillian aupairs who have to attend language school in the morning to keep their visa. They are often looking for an aupair job where they will have the morning off.

pwurple

Yowsa you two do very long days! 12.5 and 10 hours a day each, 5 days a week? Yikes. That early start will be very tricky alright for a childminder, I'd say live-in suits you better alright.

Anyway, yes, we've had 3 au pairs. One was aupairworld.net, worked out great. Interviewed, skyped, chatted etc. Stayed with us 2 years, still keep in touch. One was facebook, woeful experience, it was a disgruntled au pair from someone else, who was getting chucked out because she kept dragging the boyfriend home on the sneaky. They gave a glowing recommendation of course. First week with us, she brought the 6 year old and 3 year old on a 2 hour bus ride to meet said boyfriend. I restrained myself from killing her, and sent her packing instead. 3rd was a lovely girl, whos local host family were moving to dubai, so she came to stay with us.

Never, with any of our au pairs, did we ask them to do a 5 day week. It was 4 afternoons a week max. A family member took the other afternoon. We involved them in everything. Holidays, going to the beach, cinema etc. It is supposed to be a cultural exchange.

Triceratops Ballet

also make sure you have a contract with the AuPair as mentioned earlier there have been a number of cases in the last few years in the labour courts over the treatment of aupairs. Familliarise yourself with employment legislation and the working time acts, make sure her working hours and duties are clearly defined and that she has adequate breaks and time off.

antodeco

Thanks all. Based on the above, It actually seems like it doesn't work out financially at the minute as we would actually be losing money due to school fees, au pair fees and transport for my wife if she were to go back to work!

Neyite

Is there any way that either of you could negotiate a shorter working week or working from home a day a week?
It wasn't an option for me but my partner did have that option and it was the only way we managed. We've since moved nearer family who are happy to help out with wraparound care, we had no other option really.

antodeco

Neyite wrote: »

Is there any way that either of you could negotiate a shorter working week or working from home a day a week?
It wasn't an option for me but my partner did have that option and it was the only way we managed. We've since moved nearer family who are happy to help out with wraparound care, we had no other option really.

I'm about to start a new job, so will try find out. My wife can't as she's a chef. Awkward job to do from home

milhous

Yeah it sounds lile a childminded/nanny needed. We have two kids, ended up getting a nanny. She's great and makes life so much more manageable. I just wish there were tax breaks!

farmchoice

antodeco wrote: »

Thanks all. Based on the above, It actually seems like it doesn't work out financially at the minute as we would actually be losing money due to school fees, au pair fees and transport for my wife if she were to go back to work!

I'm not telling you how to live your life mate but if there is anyway you can afford to have one of you at home at least until the little one is in school then do it.
the stress of two people working and childcare and minders and au pairs missing their mammys or falling out with their boyfriends, sick kids, working late, no one to go to the school play, feeling bad because your cant do this or that.
we have done it all creche, child minder, au pair, grandparents, whichever way you go its such a rat race.



personally i enjoyed the au pair experience we had great girls and i loved the life life and drama they brought to the house, on the other hand it drove my wife mad.
like one day we came home and the au pair was lying on the living room floor sobbing and hugging the baby, we thought she had killed him by accident or something. after much screaming and google translating we figured out it was just that her boyfriend of 2 months had cheated on her, she was just hugging the baby for comfort in her our of need as the only person in the world she loved as much as her now ex-boyfriend was our baby.
i thought it was hilarious, my missus not so much.
thats the au pair life though.

spuddy

ectoraige wrote: »

...You will need to be paying any aupair €9.80 an hour, you can deduct €54.13 per week for room and board...

Hope nobody minds if I hijack this thread but we're in a similar position, looking for 20 hours a week of help.

Based on what I've understood we're effectively an employer for the said au pair, which means €9.80 and hour + 8.7% employers PRSI (8.7% Class A employer PRSI on weekly earnings up to €386), less accommodation / food.

That's €196, less €54.13 = ~€142 to the au pair, and additional ~€17 to Revenue if I've understood correctly?

ectoraige

spuddy wrote: »

Hope nobody minds if I hijack this thread but we're in a similar position, looking for 20 hours a week of help.

Based on what I've understood we're effectively an employer for the said au pair, which means €9.80 and hour + 8.7% employers PRSI (8.7% Class A employer PRSI on weekly earnings up to €386), less accommodation / food.

That's €196, less €54.13 = ~€142 to the au pair, and additional ~€17 to Revenue if I've understood correctly?

I *think* that's right, you should also send them on a Manual Handling course which would cost up to €100.

spuddy

ectoraige wrote: »

I *think* that's right, you should also send them on a Manual Handling course which would cost up to €100.

In a nutshell it's ~€160 a week, €8,420 for the year (incl the course mentioned) or ~€700 per calendar month, assuming a constant 20 hours.

Of course everyone is due a fair wage, it's just that the total cost incl taxes are quite a bit more than we expected. Unfortunately I think we may have to think again about this, which is a real shame as we do think an au pair would be a great experience for our family.

farmchoice

regarding payment.


nobody really pays au pairs in that way. it is a cultural exchange. you dont ''pay'' them at all, they are here to learn english and experience life in another country.
you provide them with food, transport here and there, maybe use of a car, maybe not and you give them pocket money (we always gave 150, but others give less). then whilst staying with you they look after the children for some of the time.


this is not a regularized state of affairs and it has all sorts of potential problems. there were a few cases in the last few years were au pais took their host parents to court for unfair treatment and they won.


in those cases the host families behaved appallingly and were using the au pairs as cheap labour.


if you enter the thing in the spirit it is intended and treat the au pairs as you would have your own daughter treated if she was abroad you will be fine.
just as some families treat the girls as unpaid labour some of the ''au pairs'' are actually people looking for off the books work, they are not your typical European girls looking to learn english before or after uni or in a year out.


i have seen cases where Brazilian woman were coming over having left kids behind in Brazil to come and work here and send their money home. your heart would go out to them but this is not what au pairs were or are supposed to be and its a recipe for disaster.

lazygal

Revenue doesn't categorise au pairs as anything but employees.
People paying cash under the counter are leaving themselves wide open to having backdated payments for employers prsi and so on. I think you'd be foolish to think someone you'll be employing isn't an employee because of nebulous cultural stuff. Most people use au pairs for cheaper child care.

farmchoice

lazygal wrote: »

Revenue doesn't categorise au pairs as anything but employees.
People paying cash under the counter are leaving themselves wide open to having backdated payments for employers prsi and so on. I think you'd be foolish to think someone you'll be employing isn't an employee because of nebulous cultural stuff. Most people use au pairs for cheaper child care.

i completely agree it is not a regularized state of affairs and it could lead to difficulties.
none the less it is the way it has been done for decades and at present it is going on in thousands of homes across the country.


if you see it purely as cheap child care then it wont work for you and could lead to serious trouble.
you really do need to see it as a cultural exchange and understand why the au pairs are here, its not to mind your kids or to make money they are here to experience life in another country, learn a language and meet new people, to make that happen they move in = with a host family and help out in the house in return for the few quid that enables them to see the country.

the girls we had did all that and more and had a wonderful time, we keep in contact and they come back to visit from time to time, they all fell in love with Ireland and made friends for life with other au pairs. this is a story you will hear over and over again.
i would now be more than happy for my daughter to go abroad and do the same .

spuddy

I had a look on Revenue's website and specifically found the following document which clarifies the situation.

"A "domestic employee" is a person e.g. an Au Pair, who is employed by a domestic employer solely on domestic duties (including the minding of children) in the employer’s private dwelling house. The employee may have other employment with a different employer."

It would seem pretty clear cut that you're expected to act as an employer, with all the associated overhead. In our case, ww have no real wish to become employers, it's simply not worth the hassle.

farmchoice

spuddy wrote: »

I had a look on Revenue's website and specifically found the following document which clarifies the situation.

"A "domestic employee" is a person e.g. an Au Pair, who is employed by a domestic employer solely on domestic duties (including the minding of children) in the employer’s private dwelling house. The employee may have other employment with a different employer."

It would seem pretty clear cut that you're expected to act as an employer, with all the associated overhead. In our case, ww have no real wish to become employers, it's simply not worth the hassle.

thats the revenue for you, there are no two ways about it the traditional au pair arrangement is not a regularized employment model and either you are willing to accept that what you are doing is dubious at best or your not.

Tigerandahalf

It is a tricky one. I'd always be wary of handing the kids over to a stranger especially when they could be on a flight out of the place at a minute's notice. We hear a lot about vetting but I presume there is none with this arrangement.

It is better when your kids are older. At least then they can tell you if something happened and if anything inappropriate was being done to them.

However if you get a good girl and treat her well it could work out very well. They might even expose the kids to another language.

I am not sure if I'd be comfortable with having another person around the house. Having something self contained would be better for both parties, with privacy for both of ye.

farmchoice

ya its a bit of a leap in the dark, but a bit of common sense goes a long way it is usually pretty easy from talking to and even emailing an 18/19 year old to see what they are like, at that age its hard to hide your real self!!
also word of mouth was important, our first au pair was the friend of a girl who was an au pair for neighbors of ours. that girl who was a rock of sense pretty much picked our next one and so on.



the more room you have the better but i would say that separate living or self contained is a step too far. they really should be part of the family, you really are in loco parentis even if they are 18/19/20. they are someones little girl along way from home in a very different environment. you really do need to mind them.
they all have a terrible tendency to take up with the biggest eejits/clowns of young fellas in the area, no different then their Irish equivalents in that regard.


its not for everyone. i was personally really opposed to having someone living in the house and vetoed it for a few years.
when we eventually did do it i actually really enjoyed it and got great craic out of them whereas my wife who had been all for it found it much more difficult having someone else living in the house.

Tigerandahalf

Fair enough. I just think with very young kids it is very difficult with feeding, tantrums, toilet training, night wake ups, etc. It can be a tense house when that stuff is going on and I don't think it would be easy for an au pair to settle in that environment.

I'd be more open to it when they are a bit older. It would be great to get a certain amount of time to yourself and have the au pair do weekend/evening drop offs to various things.