Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

Lefty Bicek

blueythebear wrote: »

How was there no valid court order ? On what basis ? A Court Order was no doubt produced to the Gardai and the Sheriff at least.

Jeez, you're the one who supplied the link to the Courts Service website, and said it would be readily searchable !

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108906975&postcount=1430

Find it for us ?

JCJCJC

expectationlost wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/anna.kavanagh.102?ref=br_rs

She just said she doesn’t know what’s going on.

hatrickpatrick

bubblypop wrote: »

What difference does this make?

A British company shouldn't be carrying out any form of law enforcement in this country. How is this not obvious?

Private security companies shouldn't be involved in any capacity in enforcing a court order. A court order is an order issued by a branch of the Irish State. Law enforcement in the Irish State is carried out by another arm of the state, that being An Garda Síochána. If there's a court order to be enforced, they - and only they - should be the ones to enforce it.

The very involvement of a private security company - let alone one from outside the state - in what is essentially a matter of law enforcement and potential contempt of court, is highly disturbing. The fact that so many people are arguing that there's nothing at all disturbing about it, is itself even more disturbing.

tuxy

JCJCJC wrote: »

She just said she doesn’t know what’s going on.

No she said, emmm emmm emmmm x 10000

I don't know what's going on.

Effects

klaaaz wrote: »

The loyalist security company will come back to evict the pensioners once again, local people are gathering up that way to give their support to the vulnerable family.

Have they moved more people into the house?

Fann Linn

Effects wrote: »

Have they moved more people into the house?

Neighbours are gathered outside.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

A British company shouldn't be carrying out any form of law enforcement in this country. How is this not obvious?

Private security companies shouldn't be involved in any capacity in enforcing a court order. A court order is an order issued by a branch of the Irish State. Law enforcement in the Irish State is carried out by another arm of the state, that being An Garda Síochána. If there's a court order to be enforced, they - and only they - should be the ones to enforce it.

The very involvement of a private security company - let alone one from outside the state - in what is essentially a matter of law enforcement and potential contempt of court, is highly disturbing. The fact that so many people are arguing that there's nothing at all disturbing about it, is itself even more disturbing.

Absolutely no way should Gardai be involved in civil matters.
The police of the land cannot & never should be involved in throwing people out of their homes.

It is civil court, civil matter, dealt with by the sheriff & whoever he sees fit to employ.

expectationlost

JCJCJC wrote: »

She just said she doesn’t know what’s going on.

bloody hell would she not walk down the road and find out

buried

Round and round we go again

awec

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

A British company shouldn't be carrying out any form of law enforcement in this country. How is this not obvious?

Private security companies shouldn't be involved in any capacity in enforcing a court order. A court order is an order issued by a branch of the Irish State. Law enforcement in the Irish State is carried out by another arm of the state, that being An Garda Síochána. If there's a court order to be enforced, they - and only they - should be the ones to enforce it.

The very involvement of a private security company - let alone one from outside the state - in what is essentially a matter of law enforcement and potential contempt of court, is highly disturbing. The fact that so many people are arguing that there's nothing at all disturbing about it, is itself even more disturbing.

You need to go figure out the difference between civil and criminal matters.

hatrickpatrick

bubblypop wrote: »

Absolutely no way should Gardai be involved in civil matters.
The police of the land cannot & never should be involved in throwing people out of their homes.

It is civil court, civil matter, dealt with by the sheriff & whoever he sees fit to employ.

Contempt of court is not a civil matter but a criminal one. I'm opposed to evictions full stop, just to be clear, but I'm even more opposed to the involvement of private security goons in any form of enforcement. A court order is something to be enforced by the state, not some unaccountable and unknown thugs.

Odhinn

bubblypop wrote: »

Absolutely no way should Gardai be involved in civil matters.
The police of the land cannot & never should be involved in throwing people out of their homes.

It is civil court, civil matter, dealt with by the sheriff & whoever he sees fit to employ.

That would seem to be a large part of what brought this about. That, and the feeling that the Gardai are there to protect them, not both sides or those being evicted.

JCJCJC

expectationlost wrote: »

bloody hell would she not walk down the road and find out

In between a lot of stutters, splutters ums and ahs she said it’s raining.

seligehgit

Is she giving a law lesson?:D

klaaaz

blueythebear wrote: »

How was there no valid court order ? On what basis ? A Court Order was no doubt produced to the Gardai and the Sheriff at least.

Apparently not, it seems that the loyalist security firm produced a letter with bank lettering without no actual names of the family on it, there was no actual court order from an actual court!. An illegal eviction on the day.

Fann Linn

bubblypop wrote: »

Absolutely no way should Gardai be involved in civil matters.
The police of the land cannot & never should be involved in throwing people out of their homes.

It is civil court, civil matter, dealt with by the sheriff & whoever he sees fit to employ.

Sheriff's not involved by all accounts. Just a dodgy security firm with dodgy employees and now appears with a dodgy court order.
Glad you're happy with it.

hatrickpatrick

awec wrote: »

You need to go figure out the difference between civil and criminal matters.

If a court orders me to leave a property and I refuse, I am now in contempt of court. That is a criminal and not a civil matter.

Furthermore, I don't agree with a distinction being made between the two. The courts are a branch of the Irish state, and enforcement of their rulings should be carried out exclusively by the Irish state.

awec

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If a court orders me to leave a property and I refuse, I am now in contempt of court. That is a criminal and not a civil matter.

Furthermore, I don't agree with a distinction being made between the two. The courts are a branch of the Irish state, and enforcement of their rulings should be carried out exclusively by the Irish state.

It's a civil court.

Sam Quentin

bubblypop wrote: »

Absolutely no way should Gardai be involved in civil matters.
The police of the land cannot & never should be involved in throwing people out of their homes.

It is civil court, civil matter, dealt with by the sheriff & whoever he sees fit to employ.

Gardaī will always attend no matter what the situation as long as there is a threat to a person or property. And are usually called upon by the sheriff or bailiffs to observe the 'proceedings'.

seligehgit

Merciful hour talk of the restoration of the rule of law.:rolleyes:

STB.

awec wrote: »

I'm not saying they are the solution.

Just that you're talking emotive bollocks about how they operate. Any Vulture Fund that bought debt in Ireland to go down the eviction route would soon end up bankrupt. It makes no sense.

Well they are CLEARLY not the solution. They are now a symptom of the inept banking structure that has failed to deal with the issue. They are a cancer on this country, just like the other gambling unsecured bondholders were. The simple lessons have not been learned.

How much bloody land is tied up in vulture funds that could have been put to good use ? Emotive bollocks, me arse. I wont have someone talking balderdash about how more likely you are to strike a deal with a vulture fund over a bank.

Those who haven't cleared their debts are now seeing exactly how these operators behave and I'd say its only the start of it. This is not just business. The abundance of light touch regulation and lack of oversight of many things has us where we are.

bubblypop wrote: »

Absolutely no way should Gardai be involved in civil matters.
The police of the land cannot & never should be involved in throwing people out of their homes.

It is civil court, civil matter, dealt with by the sheriff & whoever he sees fit to employ.

Absolutely. However, what about public order. Very much a hot topic given its currently under review.

How do members feel about assisting private unregulated repossession contractors of unknown origin ?

From what I could see a former member of AGS was dragged along the ground by at least 5 men in the video footage circulating. Simply saying that its a civil matter on private ground does not wash, regardless of the situation , or who owes what. It is simply unacceptable.

tuxy

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Gardaī will always attend no matter what the situation as long as there is a threat to a person or property. And are usually called upon by the sheriff or bailiffs to observe the 'proceedings'.

So they can just observe and refuse to step in if there is violence like there was with this case?

hatrickpatrick

awec wrote: »

It's a civil court.

Civil contempt is regarded as an offence. If you defy an order in the civil courts, you are now guilty of a criminal act.

Mrsmum

How does anyone think it's sensible to try this eviction again when tensions are so high.

blueser

JCJCJC wrote: »

In between a lot of stutters, splutters ums and ahs she said it’s raining.

That's putting it mildly. It's been pis raining heavily for the last three hours or so down here on the Mayo/Ros border. "Soft evening", as the locals would say. Should keep the idiots on each side in their boxes tonight.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

That would seem to be a large part of what brought this about. That, and the feeling that the Gardai are there to protect them, not both sides or those being evicted.

Gardai are there to prevent a breach of the peace.
That is it. They should not be involved

Fann Linn

Mrsmum wrote: »

How does anyone think it's sensible to try this eviction again when tensions are so high.

My feelings entirely. Let the dust settle and try again in the cold light of day. Gardai should really disperse everyone, including the UDA and leave a couple of squad cars or the ARU in situ for the night.

Not exactly rocket science.

Fann Linn

bubblypop wrote: »

Gardai are there to prevent a breach of the peace.
That is it. They should not be involved

Like we saw last Tuesday. Sweet feck all done.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Contempt of court is not a civil matter but a criminal one. I'm opposed to evictions full stop, just to be clear, but I'm even more opposed to the involvement of private security goons in any form of enforcement. A court order is something to be enforced by the state, not some unaccountable and unknown thugs.

I have no problem with evictions. Once a court order is made, then it should be enforced.
But if it is a civil matter, involving personal debts, then no way should the police of the country be involved.
You want to see gardai acting as personal debt collectors? Forcing people to leave their homes?
There is enough animosity towards Gardai without employing them to carry out evictions.

awec

Fann Linn wrote: »

My feelings entirely. Let the dust settle and try again in the cold light of day. Gardai should really disperse everyone, including the UDA and leave a couple of squad cars or the ARU in situ for the night.

Not exactly rocket science.

UDR.

Can we at least use the right acronyms here? One is a paramilitary organization, the other is a former regiment of the British Army. One still exists, the other hasn't existed for over over 25 years.