Evictions

Sheepdish1

Hi,

Can someone explain to me the situation with the evictions that appear to be forcibly removing people from properties? People seem to be very angry with KBC. (I have seen a few videos of people protesting outside KBC in Dublin earlier.)

I've seen videos of men dressed in black uniforms physically dragging people out of gardens etc? Looks extremely distressing to the individuals that are being removed:( There seems to be gaurds present and not intervening.

Are these people being evicted from missing mortgage payments or have their mortgages been sold on to other banks / debt collectors ?

Looks very distressing to see people clinging on to their property, they look utterly desperate

DontThankMe

I can only assume that they have been in arrears for years and haven't been able to meet the repayments of the mortgage. While I do have sympathy for them when you get a mortgage you sign a legal document that says you will lose your home if don't meet the repayments set out in the terms of the mortgage so it's as if they are being illegally evicted.

whippet

There are groups of what seem to be full time protestors attending these evictions .. they obviously know well in advance what is going to happen or else they wouldn’t be there.

Usually the forced eviction is the last option in long drawn out court processes where the occupiers have been given multiple dates to vacate the property.

Usually in these videos you will hear some really funny pseudo legal arguments from those holding the cameras ... usually always nonsense.

In Ireland evictions are rare.

Seth Brundle

whippet wrote: »

In Ireland evictions are rare.

...which in turn is resulting in Irish mortgage holders paying higher interest rates:(

DubCount

whippet wrote: »

In Ireland evictions are rare.

You will hear a warning after Mortgage adverts saying "if you do not keep up your repayments, you may loose your home". This is the end of that process and I agree with the above quote that's its rare.

There is a left wing political element that disagree with any evictions, in any circumstances. Nobody likes to see evictions, but they are a necessary evil. Houses and apartments cost a lot of money, and somebody has to pay. If the owner cant/wont pay, then the property must be sold to pay off the mortgage. There are a raft of options available to reschedule debts etc before eviction becomes the answer.

dudara

When you sign your mortgage, you will have read the numerous Ts&Cs that cane with the offer.

Essentially they all boil down to two simple ideas - the bank owns your house until you pay off the mortgage, and if you fail to pay your mortgage, the bank is entitled to repossess.

Obviously an eviction is tough on the people involved, but it doesn’t happen for the giggles. There will have been a very lengthy process beforehand.

Atlantic Dawn

To be evicted in Ireland you basically have to not pay a single cent of your mortgage for a number of years, yes years.

Graces7

dudara wrote: »

When you sign your mortgage, you will have read the numerous Ts&Cs that cane with the offer.

Essentially they all boil down to two simple ideas - the bank owns your house until you pay off the mortgage, and if you fail to pay your mortgage, the bank is entitled to repossess.

Obviously an eviction is tough on the people involved, but it doesn’t happen for the giggles. There will have been a very lengthy process beforehand.

I was watching a youtube documentary, "Evicted at Christmas."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HJoqNY7PNc&t=1440s

the_syco

Graces7 wrote: »

I was watching a youtube documentary, "Evicted at Christmas."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HJoqNY7PNc&t=1440s

Seems someone is trying to pull on the heart strings.

Sean.3516

Hi All.
Regarding situation in Roscommon today where the security guards were attacked over the eviction. Would be interested to hear people’s opinions on this

4ensic15

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Hi All.
Regarding situation in Roscommon today where the security guards were attacked over the eviction. Would be interested to hear people’s opinions on this

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Sean.3516

4ensic15 wrote: »

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Don’t think so. I prefer law and order to the bandit culture. Think banks have every right to unload a loan that ain’t performing and carry out an eviction. Nobody has the right to assault the security guards guarding the property.

DubCount

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Hi All.
Regarding situation in Roscommon today where the security guards were attacked over the eviction. Would be interested to hear people’s opinions on this

After the bank has given reasonable time and efforts to keep the buyer in their home, they should be entitled to repossess. The property goes to someone who can afford it. The evicted party should be housed by the government like any other social housing candidate.

Yobs resorting to violence should be locked up.

Politicians encouraging this kind of action should be locked up with them.

4ensic15

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Don’t think so. I prefer law and order to the bandit culture. Think banks have every right to unload a loan that ain’t performing and carry out an eviction. Nobody has the right to assault the security guards guarding the property.

The security guards violently assaulted people to take possession of the property. What right had they got to do that? What goes around comes around.

Caranica

Reading about the debt, and the actual ages of the family makes it a less heartbreaking story from the one being portrayed on social media.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-investigate-dissident-links-to-predawn-attack-at-repossessed-house-37632029.html

DubCount

4ensic15 wrote: »

The security guards violently assaulted people to take possession of the property. What right had they got to do that? What goes around comes around.

Do you not think the residents concerned had the opportunity to leave the house quietly and without force. I would have preferred the local Guards (who would have preferred to get involved) to have done the eviction with force part, but court orders have to be enforced. If the security guards used excess force, then this should be dealt with by the guards and the courts and not a local mob with baseball bats.

Gimme A Pound

Evictions are for "won't pay" not "can't pay" folk.

Robert McGrath

Ariana Shallow Mimicry wrote: »

Evictions are for "won't pay" not "can't pay" folk.

Evictions should be for both. If you genuinely “can’t pay” your mortgage, should you be allowed to stay in the property indefinitely?

mikep

despite the tax defaulter status of the farmer involved I'm sure the "Anti eviction bill" brigade will be out in force to today to make noise..

Good ol' Ml Fitzmaurice was on the radio this morning being asked if calling banks scum was wise...

harr

What do people expect the bank to do is this situation? Just walk away from the money owed and give the house to the people, if they started this no one would pay for anything.

We break our back trying to make sure our mortgage payment is in the bank every month.
We were glad to get a mortgage from the bank to provide a roof over our heads.

Most of the people I see out raged over this are the usual rent a mob on Facebook who in fareness are outraged with having to pay for anything.
Why should anyone have the right to live rent / mortgage free for years while the rest of us pick up the cost.

This eviction is after many years of non payment it’s not just like they missed last month payment and the bank sent in the heavies.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

The security guards violently assaulted people to take possession of the property. What right had they got to do that? What goes around comes around.

The right that the people in possession are basically stealing the house as they aren't paying for it. If it was thief robbing from a shop they would be manhandled with no complaints, if these people left rather than continued to steal from the bank there would be no need to manhandle them.

Gimme A Pound

Robert McGrath wrote: »

Evictions should be for both. If you genuinely “can’t pay” your mortgage, should you be allowed to stay in the property indefinitely?

They are paying what they can though - financial difficulty can hit us all unexpectedly. The "won't pays" aren't paying anything.

_Brian

Eviction must happen.

There has to be some last resort to recover bad debts. There has to be a option for landlords to get control of houses where no rent is being paid.

If evictions were no longer an option then the system would collapse. Why repay a mortgage if the house can never be taken of you. Why pay the rent if a landlord can never put you out.

Eviction is the end of a lengthy legal process where there is ample opportunity to interact and deal on some terms with the problem, even if that is surrendering the asset in a controlled manner. It’s never out of the blue and never for no good reason.

People who rack up huge debts and fail to pay rents cost every other citizen in higher interest rates, higher rents and bigger rental deposits.

4ensic15

Vincent Orange Penmanship wrote: »

The right that the people in possession are basically stealing the house as they aren't paying for it. If it was thief robbing from a shop they would be manhandled with no complaints, if these people left rather than continued to steal from the bank there would be no need to manhandle them.

So two wrongs make a right? A thief cannot be assaulted. Minimum force must be used.

_Brian

4ensic15 wrote: »

So two wrongs make a right? A thief cannot be assaulted. Minimum force must be used.

A forced eviction is always going to need some force. It’s a problem to move people on who are vehemently resisting being removed, force must be used.

What isn’t right is thuggery for the sake of violence, but it’s angrey line with so much resistance and protests driving tensions up.

In the Strokestown case of the family had walked out of the property which was no longer theirs I doubt there would have been any violence, so who is to blame really.

l5auim2pjnt8qx

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/roscommon-eviction-falsk-strokestown-kbc-13742736

How anyone that could condone this type of vigilante thuggish behaviour on 3 individuals in there 60 sixties 2 brother & 1 sister , one of the brothers was pulled out of the house by his ears and a retired Garda kevin Taylor was punched 20/30 times by the thugs while our own gardai were present.

The agreement the government had with the banks was that buy-to-let properties
were to be targeted not owner occupied homes. The bank had their debts written off at least people owner occupiers should off at least had 50% off or at least parked until the owners had passed away .

Now we have a situation were a European bank are steam rolling people out of there homes while our own Gardai again don't appear to know what there job is or entails.....Protect the people keep the peace not look on....Disgraceful.

"I am ashamed of my own country for allowing this.......Good on for community looking to protect there own.

gctest50

Zayd Quaint Marsupial wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/roscommon-eviction-falsk-strokestown-kbc-13742736

How anyone that could condone this type of vigilante thuggish behaviour on 3 individuals in there 60 sixties .........

Lies

Claw Hammer

_Brian wrote: »

A forced eviction is always going to need some force. It’s a problem to move people on who are vehemently resisting being removed, force must be used.

.

So you think gratuitous violence to people who do not leave a house is justified. should the hired thugs be allowed commit murder in there attempt to gain possession? Where do you stop? 10 kicks while on the ground? 20?

l5auim2pjnt8qx

gctest50 wrote: »

Lies

Elaborate

gctest50

Zayd Quaint Marsupial wrote: »

Elaborate

From the very article you linked :

Anthony McGann, in his 50s

.

gctest50

Co. Roscommon farmer Anthony McGann is the farmer with the largest figure on the tax defaulters list.


Anthony McGann has a penalty of €177,388.00 by the Revenue commissioners for under-declaration of VAT.

In total the farmer, from Mount Brown, Strokestown owes a total of €429,501.00 to the Revenue

gctest50

Land Registry records for the Falsk property also show that more than €18,000 was secured in a judgment in December 2008, which was subsequently registered against his property.

That judgment was obtained by a local company which operated a quarry at the time.

l5auim2pjnt8qx

gctest50 wrote: »

Co. Roscommon farmer Anthony McGann is the farmer with the largest figure on the tax defaulters list.


Anthony McGann has a penalty of €177,388.00 by the Revenue commissioners for under-declaration of VAT.

In total the farmer, from Mount Brown, Strokestown owes a total of €429,501.00 to the Revenue

So what he had debts , I didn't see the Brian O'Donnell from Gorse Hill with debts over 71 million get dragged out of his home or get arrested when he went in to Bank of Ireland and threw the keys at chief executive Richie Boucher.

We have a court system to deal with bad debts and jail if necessary when did in become ok for the state to inact vigilante style behaviour on its citizens.
"It's a Breach of Citizens Rights" that has happened.

If it was your mother or father getting dragged out would you be in agreement of this shocking brutality.

l5auim2pjnt8qx

gctest50 wrote: »

From the very article you linked :

.

FYI : his brother and sister and the retired Gardai (63) in there sixties.

MrMusician18

Zayd Quaint Marsupial wrote: »

So what he had debts , I didn't see the Brian O'Donnell from Gorse Hill with debts over 71 million get dragged out of his home or get arrested when he went in to Bank of Ireland and threw the keys at chief executive Richie Boucher.

We have a court system to deal with bad debts and jail if necessary when did in become ok for the state to inact vigilante style behaviour on its citizens.
"It's a Breach of Citizens Rights" that has happened.

If it was your mother or father getting dragged out would you be in agreement of this shocking brutality.

Most people know when the game is over and they're beaten. If it were me, it would have been a hard day sure, but I would've walked out the gate before I was thrown.

It's hard to lose possession of something you've had all your life, but if you put it up as collateral that's a risk you're taking.

O'Donnell gave up the house peacefully in the end and complied with the court order.

gctest50

They've been to court. Court said : Out

Zayd Quaint Marsupial wrote: »

"It's a Breach of Citizens Rights" that has happened.

What exact right was breached ?

l5auim2pjnt8qx

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Most people know when the game is over and they're beaten. If it were me, it would have been a hard day sure, but I would've walked out the gate before I was thrown.

It's hard to lose possession of something you've had all your life, but if you put it up as collateral that's a risk you're taking.

Are you in agreement that some developers that still to this day are getting paid 100k to look after homes they couldn't sell.....was it not the same for them the game was up but changed to continue a new game.

gctest50

Zayd Quaint Marsupial wrote: »

FYI : his brother and sister and the retired Gardai (63) in there sixties.

So a 50 year old criminal loaded as many ~63 year olds as he could find into a house






Co. Roscommon farmer Anthony McGann is the farmer with the largest figure on the tax defaulters list.


Anthony McGann has a penalty of €177,388.00 by the Revenue commissioners for under-declaration of VAT.

In total the farmer, from Mount Brown, Strokestown owes a total of €429,501.00 to the Revenue

l5auim2pjnt8qx

gctest50 wrote: »

They've been to court. Court said : Out




What exact right was breached ?

A Retired Gardai has made a statement he was assaulted by the group enforcing the eviction.

Vigilante Law and Legal Definition. A vigilante is someone who takes law enforcement into their own hands.

gctest50

They'd been to court

That house belongs to Cabot or similar

The criminal was trespassing


Co. Roscommon farmer Anthony McGann is the farmer with the largest figure on the tax defaulters list.


Anthony McGann has a penalty of €177,388.00 by the Revenue commissioners for under-declaration of VAT.

In total the farmer, from Mount Brown, Strokestown owes a total of €429,501.00 to the Revenue

l5auim2pjnt8qx

gctest50 wrote: »

So a 50 year old criminal loaded as many ~63 year olds as he could find into a house






Co. Roscommon farmer Anthony McGann is the farmer with the largest figure on the tax defaulters list.


Anthony McGann has a penalty of €177,388.00 by the Revenue commissioners for under-declaration of VAT.

In total the farmer, from Mount Brown, Strokestown owes a total of €429,501.00 to the Revenue

Senseless

Effects

Zayd Quaint Marsupial wrote: »

I didn't see the Brian O'Donnell from Gorse Hill with debts over 71 million get dragged out of his home.

Brian O'Donnell left at the last minute before he had to be dragged out. If you know it's going to happen, why let yourself be dragged out.

The best thing they could have done last Tuesday was to walk out of the property when the eviction was taking place.

gctest50

Zayd Quaint Marsupial wrote: »

Senseless

Indeed it is, he seemed to be trying some VAT fiddle and hoped he'd get away

Askthe EA

I think most right minded people would agree that the scenes were ugly. I also think most right minded people would realise that it needn't have been ugly had the occupants complied with the court order and left before the sheriff turned up.

I noted from the video that the security guys had bodycams so, I'm going to hazard a guess that nothing will come from the allegations against them.

l5auim2pjnt8qx

Effects wrote: »

Brian O'Donnell left at the last minute before he had to be dragged out. If you know it's going to happen, why let yourself be dragged out.

The best thing they could have done last Tuesday was to walk out of the property when the eviction was taking place.

The last option in this country is to throw someone out of there home let alone other members of the family , there is no mention the family were allowed to Appeal this outrageous decisions or now an assumption he was tax fiddling , which is now being implied .

ELM327

Zayd Quaint Marsupial wrote: »

The last option in this country is to throw someone out of there home let alone other members of the family , there is no mention the family were allowed to Appeal this outrageous decisions or now an assumption he was tax fiddling , which is now being implied .

It's more than being applied, it is confirmed and accurate.
Anthony McGann has a penalty of €177,388.00 by the Revenue commissioners for under-declaration of VAT.

In total the farmer, from Mount Brown, Strokestown owes a total of €429,501.00 to the Revenue


The house was not his property any longer, it was repossessed in accordance with the law of the land. If you don't like the law of the land then go live somewhere else (where the house will be taken quicker than here anyway).


Evictions are not nice for anyone but if you don't pay your mortgage or you secure debt on your house then you have to be prepared for the worst. If I didnt pay my mortgage I'd expect to be evicted.

l5auim2pjnt8qx

ELM327 wrote: »

It's more than being applied, it is confirmed and accurate.
Anthony McGann has a penalty of €177,388.00 by the Revenue commissioners for under-declaration of VAT.

In total the farmer, from Mount Brown, Strokestown owes a total of €429,501.00 to the Revenue


The house was not his property any longer, it was repossessed in accordance with the law of the land. If you don't like the law of the land then go live somewhere else (where the house will be taken quicker than here anyway).


Evictions are not nice for anyone but if you don't pay your mortgage or you secure debt on your house then you have to be prepared for the worst. If I didnt pay my mortgage I'd expect to be evicted.

The law of the Land appears quite obscured at the moment, " I would ask individuals posters what they thought of this http://www.thejournal.ie/gorse-hill-odonnells-2010126-Mar2015/ http:/and could see why people are confused about the so called Law for some and not for others in society and also why certain debtors are getting millions cleared of property debt only to buy back the same property for less from Nama.


Other Avenues should have been explored regardless how annoying it is instead of a vigilante mob dragging and assaulting senior citizens.Rightminded individuals would not have to question this the answer should be clear.

Askthe EA

He appealed the court decision and therefore was allowed to stay in the property while the appeal was heard?

Sean.3516

4ensic15 wrote: »

The security guards violently assaulted people to take possession of the property. What right had they got to do that? What goes around comes around.

No violent assault took place in that repossession. Watch the video. Physically restraining people and removing them from a property they have no right to be on is not assault. And the security guards carried this out under Garda supervision which is fine by me.

Even if an assault did take place, that’s no reason for a mob of idiots to return to the house and assault the 8 men. They’re the real scum bags in this issue. I don’t see why it matters that the men work for a company founded by a man with links to the UDA either.

l5auim2pjnt8qx

Sean.3516 wrote: »

No violent assault took place in that repossession. Watch the video. Physically restraining people and removing them from a property they have no right to be on is not assault. And the security guards carried this out under Garda supervision which is fine by me.

Even if an assault did take place, that’s no reason for a mob of idiots to return to the house and assault the 8 men. They’re the real scum bags in this issue. I don’t see why it matters that the men work for a company founded by a man with links to the UDA either.

Are you saying that the retired Garda Kevin taylor is lying that he didn't get get assaulted punched 20/30 times.

I would also like to think if I got into difficulty with mortgage that I would't want to be treated in this inhumane fashion that I live in a Democracy not a Dictatorship and I wouldn't have to leave the country or question my humanity...sickening

Askthe EA

Zayd Quaint Marsupial wrote: »

Are you saying that the retired Garda Kevin taylor is lying that he didn't get get assaulted punched 20/30 times.

We'll see what the Gardai say I guess, when they review the bodycams.