Hanging Pictures/mirrors

Rackard

Very simple query no doubt but I'm not great at DIY in general but would love to hang pictures and heavy mirror in the new gaff.

Any idea what type screws to use on walls that are plasterboard then about 2 inch insulation board and then solid wall?

GreeBo

What size/weight are you talking about here?

For most items such as this any of the plasterboard fixings will do tbh.

Rackard

GreeBo wrote: »

What size/weight are you talking about here?

For most items such as this any of the plasterboard fixings will do tbh.

Various weights - the mirror and one of the pictures would be heavy alright.

Bought a picture hanging kit with loads of those rawlplug things but my mate said it wouldn't work as I'd only be going in to softish insulation board?

GreeBo

Rackard wrote: »

Various weights - the mirror and one of the pictures would be heavy alright.

Bought a picture hanging kit with loads of those rawlplug things but my mate said it wouldn't work as I'd only be going in to softish insulation board?

I still dont know what you mean by "heavy"

50kg heavy or 2kg heavy?

fred funk }{

Spring toggle bolts will hold anything up on plasterboard. Great things.

Rackard

GreeBo wrote: »

I still dont know what you mean by "heavy"

50kg heavy or 2kg heavy?

Reckon the mirror would be 20kg at least and the big picture is around 15kg

hesker

Rackard wrote: »

Reckon the mirror would be 20kg at least and the big picture is around 15kg

If you look at the toggle bolts and fixings made for this they often have the load written on the packaging.

I would avoid the ones that just screw into plasterboard. Sometimes they work perfectly fine and other times getting a solid fix is not easy.

The bolts with the wings that open on the far side are great provided there is room at back and are usually used where there is no insulation at the back. They may work fine here too but I haven’t used them in that situation.

listermint

https://www.ie.screwfix.com/grip-it-assorted-plasterboard-fixings-32-piece-set.html

seamus

For light loads, (up to about 3kg) these lads are the right job. Idiotproof to install and easy to patch up if you remove them later on.

I'm always reluctant to use toggles because they can be a pain when redecorating.

The grip-its listermint links above look interesting. I've to mount a TV on plasterboard next year, they may be the way to go.

Also, maybe get a pair of scales out for those weights. A 20kg mirror maybe, must be pretty big. But a 15kg picture? Unless it has a solid iron frame or it's 5 feet high, you might be overestimating.

hesker

seamus wrote: »

For light loads, (up to about 3kg) these lads are the right job. Idiotproof to install and easy to patch up if you remove them later on.

Those are the things I would avoid. I have successfully used them to hang bathroom mirrors but on other occasions the screw has pulled out of the plasterboard during fixing leaving a nice wide hole.

GreeBo

I use them all the time and have never had an issue.
Simple to patch the hole they leave behind.

BrokenArrows

GreeBo wrote: »

I use them all the time and have never had an issue.
Simple to patch the hole they leave behind.

They work reliably when the plasterboard +layer of plaster is reasonably thick.

If you have thin plasterboard and thin plaster then they can just make a hole.

GreeBo

I've never tried on anything less than 12.5mm so cant comment tbh!

dodzy

GreeBo wrote: »

I use them all the time and have never had an issue.
Simple to patch the hole they leave behind.

They are pure crap. Should never be used in a home. They tear the boards to bits. Plenty of better options out there. As earlier stated, I'd agree OP is way overestimating the weights. 20kg mirror and 15kg picture sounds excessive.

jhenno78

dodzy wrote: »

They are pure crap. Should never be used in a home. They tear the boards to bits. Plenty of better options out there. As earlier stated,

The normal problem with them is that they come with screws that are too long. You screw something thin to the wall and the screw bottoms out in the Driva and it starts spinning and making a mess of the wall.
They're good if you change for different screws.

dodzy wrote: »

I'd agree OP is way overestimating the weights. 20kg mirror and 15kg picture sounds excessive.

You're probably right, but something like a big antique frame could hit those numbers.

Cypher_sounds

Those worm screws are great. Little tip that has made them work for me 100% all of the time is drill a small hole, say 4mm, in the plasterboard before screwing in.

GreeBo

dodzy wrote: »

They are pure crap. Should never be used in a home. They tear the boards to bits. Plenty of better options out there. As earlier stated, I'd agree OP is way overestimating the weights. 20kg mirror and 15kg picture sounds excessive.

We will have to disagree then, I've used them hundreds of times and never had an issue with them.

If they are "tearing the boards to bits" then you are not installing them correctly tbh. They screw into the board, there is no tearing.

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

We will have to disagree then, I've used them hundreds of times and never had an issue with them.

If they are "tearing the boards to bits" then you are not installing them correctly tbh. They screw into the board, there is no tearing.

Those fittings are the worst fixings you can find. The metal ones are barely usable. They are OK for really light weight stuff but that's it.
I have at least 10 different types in an organiser I bring on site. I would rather have an empty section than those

dodzy

GreeBo wrote: »

We will have to disagree then, I've used them hundreds of times and never had an issue with them.

If they are "tearing the boards to bits" then you are not installing them correctly tbh. They screw into the board, there is no tearing.

If you think they are good, you should really check out the alternatives.

If you are using them, and you want to remove them, then you are left with unnecessary patchwork. I've no doubt you know how best to use them, but seriously, they re a butchered design, and for 99% of users who will not pre-drill, they will cause damage, no question.

And as for supporting any weight, I would implore you and others to look towards something else. And for light weight stuff, there are plenty of alternatives that will leave a fraction of the footprint these will.

RebelButtMunch

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Those fittings are the worst fixings you can find. The metal ones are barely usable. They are OK for really light weight stuff but that's it.
I have at least 10 different types in an organiser I bring on site. I would rather have an empty section than those

Never have a problem with them. Currently supporting curtain poles in a few bedrooms

the_pen_turner

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Never have a problem with them. Currently supporting curtain poles in a few bedrooms

i have used them with no problems in the past but there are dozens of better choices out there

Shaunoc

I hang some pictures with heavy duty Velcro. Couple of pieces per picture and no issues yet. There is 50mm rolls. I have only only used to painted block wall so far and still hanging on. Wouldn't try on wallpaper

jhenno78

Who knew that Drivas were one of the great dividers of modern society?

endacl

Just in case anybody comes along and suggests using 3M Command Strips....

Don’t.

the_pen_turner

jhenno78 wrote: »

Who knew that Drivas were one of the great dividers of modern society?

they are just trying to worm their way in:D

GreeBo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i have used them with no problems in the past but there are dozens of better choices out there

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Those fittings are the worst fixings you can find.

Well colour me confused.

GreeBo

dodzy wrote: »

If you think they are good, you should really check out the alternatives.

If you are using them, and you want to remove them, then you are left with unnecessary patchwork. I've no doubt you know how best to use them, but seriously, they re a butchered design, and for 99% of users who will not pre-drill, they will cause damage, no question.

And as for supporting any weight, I would implore you and others to look towards something else. And for light weight stuff, there are plenty of alternatives that will leave a fraction of the footprint these will.

I can't agree that a screw is s butchered design since a screw is probably holding together most of the items in your house.

What fixing that holds the same weight leaves a smaller hole?

Btw i have tried ALL three alternatives and still use these instead.
Anything that they can't hold should be into timber or a stud.

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

Well colour me confused.

in the past i have used them . it was year ago before i knew about all the better options out there. they rank the lowest in any criteria i can think of. speed, potential to ruin wall, strength, cost, size, etc

i wouldnt use them now. there are smaller, stronger ,cheaper and cause less of a hole to fix if removed options out there. as i said earlier i took them out of my organoser box. they are never used and never will.the screws are handy though

GreeBo

what's a faster option?
You screw them straight into the wall and you are done!

the_pen_turner

hammer in fixings are faster.
like these https://www.ie.screwfix.com/rawlplug-tap-it-plasterboard-fixings-metal-30mm-100-pack.html


you can just drill them in but i find you have to drive a screw in first to see if there is timber behind . if you hit anything with a driva fitting it will drill a hole.

GreeBo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

hammer in fixings are faster.
like these https://www.ie.screwfix.com/rawlplug-tap-it-plasterboard-fixings-metal-30mm-100-pack.html


you can just drill them in but i find you have to drive a screw in first to see if there is timber behind . if you hit anything with a driva fitting it will drill a hole.

It can't be faster if you need two tools...

You need to know what's behind with any fixing... unless you want to hammer the above fixing into a wire or pipe for example

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

Well colour me confused.

GreeBo wrote: »

It can't be faster if you need two tools...

You need to know what's behind with any fixing... unless you want to hammer the above fixing into a wire or pipe for example

its close but the hammer in is faster. combine that with beating them in other ares as well and its a no brainer which to use

yes its an xtra tool but its less steps
pick up hammer and fixing and hammer in fixing, swap to drill and drive in screw

v


drive in longer screw, try to pull out screw so drill can take it out, drive in driva, drive in screw

GreeBo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

its close but the hammer in is faster. combine that with beating them in other ares as well and its a no brainer which to use

yes its an xtra tool but its less steps
pick up hammer and fixing and hammer in fixing, swap to drill and drive in screw

v


drive in longer screw, try to pull out screw so drill can take it out, drive in driva, drive in screw

You mean screw in driva then screw in screw
Not sure why you are doing those extra steps....

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

You mean screw in driva then screw in screw
Not sure why you are doing those extra steps....

because if you hit anything with a driva it will spin and drill a large hole. even with a good stud finder you cant be sure of the edge of timber.
but speed isnt the main reason to abandon drevas strength is

Ted Plain

Rackard wrote: »

Various weights - the mirror and one of the pictures would be heavy alright.

Bought a picture hanging kit with loads of those rawlplug things but my mate said it wouldn't work as I'd only be going in to softish insulation board?

Instead of a picture hanging kit how about straightening out a wire coat hanger and using that as the picture wire? You can twist the wire around itself using a pliers.

the_pen_turner

the_pen_turner wrote: »

hammer in fixings are faster.
like these https://www.ie.screwfix.com/rawlplug-tap-it-plasterboard-fixings-metal-30mm-100-pack.html


you can just drill them in but i find you have to drive a screw in first to see if there is timber behind . if you hit anything with a driva fitting it will drill a hole.

I've used these recently and they are fantastic.
highly recommended.

fred funk }{

Just to give you an idea how strong Spring Toggle bolts are.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECDysfNhx_E

GreeBo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

because if you hit anything with a driva it will spin and drill a large hole. even with a good stud finder you cant be sure of the edge of timber.
but speed isnt the main reason to abandon drevas strength is

You must have the torq setting too high if this is happening for you.

If this is a concern, screw them in by hand with a screwdriver.

I'd rather hit something with a driva than with a pointy hammer in fixing...

The driva ones are absolute ****e in the wrong hands.
Biggest problem I've seen with them is people using the wrong size screw.Too long,too fat or too heavy a thread.
And then over torquing them and wallowing out the hole.
Also getting them exactly where you want them down to the mm is tricky as they walk a bit .
Yes they are good when installed properly but do leave a poxy hole if removed.
The hammer in ones are far superior and all the tradesmen I know (electrical) have started using them recently.

GreeBo

BrownFinger wrote: »

The driva ones are absolute ****e in the wrong hands.
Biggest problem I've seen with them is people using the wrong size screw.Too long,too fat or too heavy a thread.
And then over torquing them and wallowing out the hole.
Also getting them exactly where you want them down to the mm is tricky as they walk a bit .
Yes they are good when installed properly but do leave a poxy hole if removed.
The hammer in ones are far superior and all the tradesmen I know (electrical) have started using them recently.

I think the first line is key here....like most things.

How do you remove the hammer in ones?

You just screw in 1 thread then pull them straight out and they leave a little slit.

jhenno78

BrownFinger wrote: »

The driva ones... do leave a poxy hole if removed.

You can just screw them into the wall a bit and add some filler.

GreeBo

BrownFinger wrote: »

You just screw in 1 thread then pull them straight out and they leave a little slit.

Are they not designed *not* to pull out?
I've seen 10-15KG horizontal strength listed for them, I wouldnt like to be putting that force on plasterboard while I tried to pull it out, I'd expect a lump of the wall to come with it.

the_pen_turner

the only thing keeping the wings apart is te screw. once thats removed the wings will bend back as you pull it out.. very little pressure is needed to remove them

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

You must have the torq setting too high if this is happening for you.

If this is a concern, screw them in by hand with a screwdriver.

I'd rather hit something with a driva than with a pointy hammer in fixing...

why would you rather hit timber with a driva over a hammer in fixing. the hammer in will just stop or hammer in and still work . a driva will create a large hole that takes a few coats to fill

why bother faffing about with tork settings ( your right though) when you can just use something a lot better

GreeBo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

why would you rather hit timber with a driva over a hammer in fixing. the hammer in will just stop or hammer in and still work . a driva will create a large hole that takes a few coats to fill

why bother faffing about with tork settings ( your right though) when you can just use something a lot better

If the hammer in hits wood the parts won't split so it won't work, but think about a pipe or a wire Rather than wood.

It doesn't take multiple coats, the hole is only large if you butcher the install.
Flicking thr torque on a cordless is hardly faffing, but if you find that too much, just use the same screwdriver as you would on the screw...

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

If the hammer in hits wood the parts won't split so it won't work, but think about a pipe or a wire Rather than wood.

It doesn't take multiple coats, the hole is only large if you butcher the install.
Flicking thr torque on a cordless is hardly faffing, but if you find that too much, just use the same screwdriver as you would on the screw...

you wouldnt hammer them in if the stud finder indicated that wires or pipes are there.
and the screw will still go through into the wood



anytime i have taken out a driva it has taken 2 coats to fill the hole.