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Backstop

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    #152
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    seamus wrote: »
    Any kind of tangible border between the North and the Republic is likely to stir up sectarian violence. And that gets out of control real quick if it's allowed.

    Violence from who? Can't see Loyalists having a problem with it and republicans opted for democracy as part of the peace process.


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    #153
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Berserker wrote: »
    Violence from who? Can't see Loyalists having a problem with it and republicans opted for democracy as part of the peace process.
    "The republicans" are not a single unit bound together. There are many factions who were not part of the peace process, but nonetheless have honoured it so long as the other side kept up their part.

    All it would take is one of them to decide to make a practical demonstration of their opposition to a border. Then a loyalist group will retaliate...then a republican group will retaliate...you get the picture.

    There's also the fact that if the existence or operation of a border is found to be in breach of the good friday agreement, then republican groups are no longer bound to the peace process.


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    #154
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    seamus wrote: »
    There's also the fact that if the existence or operation of a border is found to be in breach of the good friday agreement, then republican groups are no longer bound to the peace process.

    Where are they going to get the guns etc from? They gave all of them up. Once the majority of republicans are focused on democracy, dealing with these factions won't be an issue. The majority will be able to identify these people easily.


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    #155
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    "They need us more than we need them" they said...

    "First stop Berlin to negotiate with the Germans" they said...

    "Easiest deal in history" they said...



    Dunno, anyone else have an ever so slight guilty satisfaction at seeing Britain getting smacked around by the EU?


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    #156
    topmanamillion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    Berserker wrote: »
    Where are they going to get the guns etc from? They gave all of them up. Once the majority of republicans are focused on democracy, dealing with these factions won't be an issue. The majority will be able to identify these people easily.

    Probably the same place Kinahan/Hutch got enough guns from to kill 19 people.
    Sourcing guns would be all to easy.
    People forget that the peace process is still fragile. There are still over a 100 peace walls/barriers in Northern Ireland today. They are not there for decoration.


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    #157
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,999 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Berserker wrote: »
    Violence from who? Can't see Loyalists having a problem with it and republicans opted for democracy as part of the peace process.




    And they did so on the basis of the kind of border we have now. It's not something that should be fucked with.


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    #158
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Dunno, anyone else have an ever so slight guilty satisfaction at seeing Britain getting smacked around by the EU?

    But many of those in the UK do not see that they are being smacked around - They see it as the EU being obstructive and unreasonable - a narrative being fed to them my many factions of their own media and many of their own politicians!


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    #159
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,999 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    "They need us more than we need them" they said...

    "First stop Berlin to negotiate with the Germans" they said...

    "Easiest deal in history" they said...



    Dunno, anyone else have an ever so slight guilty satisfaction at seeing Britain getting smacked around by the EU?


    Self inflicted really. The real smacks will land when they are outside the EU.


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    #160
    Raheem Euro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 327 ✭✭Raheem Euro


    Juncker is a bit of a character isn't he


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJXnVpcNDwA


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    #161
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Raheem Euro wrote: »
    Juncker is a bit of a character isn't he


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJXnVpcNDwA

    Imagine if Trump did it, Druncker has a drink problem and seems to be a bit of a character but hes on the globalists side so he can do whatever he pleases.


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    #162
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    "They need us more than we need them" they said...

    "First stop Berlin to negotiate with the Germans" they said...

    "Easiest deal in history" they said...



    Dunno, anyone else have an ever so slight guilty satisfaction at seeing Britain getting smacked around by the EU?

    Not really.

    The 'smacking around' if that's what it is, will also bear on Remain voters.

    It will also bear on many, many Irish and British people in Britain who we here are connected to by family.

    The actual word for the kind of twatty satisfaction you describe is 'schadenfreude'.

    Ugly sentiment.


    .


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    #163
    MarkHenderson
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭MarkHenderson


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Got a source for that?
    Cause it's balderdash.

    And the rest was silence.

    Did you actually read my post?


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    #164
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    You’ve been watching too many episodes of Blackadder. The British militwry command were certainly not incompetent in World War One.
    Gallipoli.

    Kut.


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    #165
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    MarkHenderson wrote: »
    The EU and May have never had any intention of letting the UK leave. This is all carefully choreographed to get the UK into a place for a second referendum. I despair for anyone who can't see that.
    How do you square that view with May's visceral hatred of the EU Courts ?


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    #166
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    How do you square that view with May's visceral hatred of the EU Courts ?

    She's a Remainer ?


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    #167
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    So the UK parliament want to play hardball by demanding the EU drop the backstop. No doubt they will maintain a convincing bluff up to and including Brexit day but within hours of the hard brexit, the UK will come crawling back to accept EU terms. How could they not. Dover will be gridlocked as far back as Dartford. Obviously by going to the wire they think the EU will bend to their will. Ha!

    On the matter of policing the border, it is good to see EU plans are now afoot for border funding. I reckon UK goods (like those from other non EU members) entering the EU will need to be subject to extra tariffs in order to fund this funding. Ireland now needs to move on from UK centric trade and start shipping to the rest of the EU. In fact, if Ireland can do this, Brexit will have been the best thing that ever happened to the Irish economy.


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    #168
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    To be honest I can’t see any way around a hard border at this stage. The hardline unionists in parliament are never going to agree to the backstop and they know the longer they hold out the more likely a no deal Brexit becomes which would result in a hard border regardless.

    Frankly I think they’re shooting them selves in the foot - do they not understand the trouble this could ignite up North?

    I will say I’m impressed at how Leo is dealing with it all - he’s standing firm.


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    #169
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    To be honest I can’t see any way around a hard border at this stage. The hardline unionists in parliament are never going to agree to the backstop and they know the longer they hold out the more likely a no deal Brexit becomes which would result in a hard border regardless.

    Frankly I think they’re shooting them selves in the foot - do they not understand the trouble this could ignite up North?

    I will say I’m impressed at how Leo is dealing with it all - he’s standing firm.

    Yes I think UK public opinion will turn in anger toward the DUP within hours of a hard Brexit and if that doesn`t change their minds, a general election over there will get rid of the DUP obstacle. By then, a lot of people in the UK will have taken a turn against UK sovereignty over northern Ireland.

    I cannot see a situation where articles 2 & 3 of the Irish constitution are not reinstated if the Good Friday agreement is compromized. Anyone who voted in that referendum knows it was a vote for peace and not because we wanted to disclaim that part of our country - remember the mantra, this is a package deal with good parts and bad parts but the prize is peace? If the UK unilaterally break the deal, articles 2 & 3 will have to be automatically reinstated - after all, the deal was a package. We get the whole package or none of it. Besides, northern nationalists must have their citizen rights in the republic preserved.


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