Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

Kimsang

StringerBell wrote: »

And racism is what you are being schooled on my good man, racism. As in, what would be considered a racist statement and what would not.

Could you please answer the more pressing questions

Kimsang wrote: »

Is this quote by Roger Scruton, a racist thing to say?

So maybe it is indeed others in this thread that are in need of schooling in regards racism? Would you agree.

TomOnBoard

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Narcissist. When his fragile ego is threatened he attacks. His image is all that matters to him. Everything and everyone is secondary. Mueller is threatening his image so he attacks him. Deep inside, Trump is terrified that he will be exposed as not being the greatest POTUS ever. If you read his tweets with this in mind, they and Trump are easily understood.

Indeed, the work by Bandy X Lee suggests that his psychological profile, based on his words and deeds, shows someone who is extremely unfit for office as POTUS, and is a clear and present danger to the US and the world. Just frightening actually how many psychological issues he seems to exhibit, including narcissism, sociopathy and others. A truly scary person to have in charge. And. He's. Getting. Worse! Lee and others recommend that he be subjected to an immediate full psychological workup , and if necessary, invoke the 25th Amendment.

The book is "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 37 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President - Updated and Expanded with New Essays ". I'd suggest anyone interested in his performance as POTUS have a read!

aloyisious

@Kimsang: show me a human being who is without the ability to be swayed by a voice and I'll show you an anomaly. We are all subject to it, and the proof is in the name-calling: left-wing, right-wing and the variations currently in use for them. It seems to me that currently Trumpism is the opposite to Socialism in the US, as if Don does not seem to have any dislike to such a comparison, given his fixation on MAGA.

Me myself, I don't see being a EU citizen means one is a socialist, more so a citizen with a belief that each citizen is entitle to the same rights and privileges as any other citizen. If that belief makes one a socialist, then what say any US citizen about his/her belief in the US constitution V that of Don Trump's estimate of the same? Are they socialists or US citizens the exact same as Don Trump? It seems to me, that despite how riven the state of the union is in the US, Don Trump and his cohort have widened any existing split to almost a chasm to suit their own aims. The Washington swamp seems to be Red now. not Blue, peculiar enough given the history of such colour meanings have in describing traditional political leanings.

Kimsang

aloyisious wrote: »

@Kimsang: show me a human being who is without the ability to be swayed by a voice and I'll show you an anomaly. We are all subject to it, and the proof is in the name-calling: left-wing, right-wing and the variations currently in use for them. It seems to me that currently Trumpism is the opposite to Socialism in the US, as if Don does not seem to have any dislike to such a comparison, given his fixation on MAGA.

I see left and right as very real things, both terrible in their extremes. It would be like Germany and Soviets circa WWII. I'm not sure people realize how many of their own people were killed by the ideology of equality. The revolutionaries were often the first lined up against a wall and shot , or labelled dissidents and forced into gulags. Many here(and in society) seem to have forgotten this. (Socialists were also called earlier in this thread "militant vegan feminists that demand 27 gender pronouns for asparagus")(11 thanks). While everyone agrees nazis should not have power, why are we not as quick to object to socialists?

If someone is threatened by socialist ideals (you know, sharing and stuff), they are just an asshole.

China and North Korea consider themselves left. This is how it works in the extreme. Look at the revolutionists in Cuba. All this comes about in the aspiration of equality often by any means necessary. Absolute equality is a futile aspiration. It has shown throughout history time and time again. While nazis killed jews because of race, Socialists kill dissidents because of what you say or do.

We are all swayed by voices, I agree, but it is largely left-wing media that get away with appealing to emotion rather that reason, and this is what worries me. Character assassinations like that of Roger Scruton authored by the very definition of champagne socialist would not sell if not for the people that are hungry to read about who the latest racist/misogynist/etc.. is. To stand up to this stampeding mob would mean instant annihilation of your reputation and your job. Victims must admit guilt, with no redemption, before the mob moves onto their next victim. There is no such thing on the right. From my perspective they also believe false-hoods and misinterpret facts, as we all do, but only one side is able to ever realize mistakes and apologize later. Apologies on the left have become admissions of guilt, they have inverted our shame guilt cultural dynamic. There is no road to redemption.

Diversity among different “kinds” of people is celebrated everywhere, but intellectual, ideological, and political diversity among those groups is demonized.

Citation

That writers deliberately mis-use quotes to sell stories is not what worries me. Its the people who continue to take things at face value and are so sure in their conviction. The never ending push towards 'equality'. Otherwise very reasonable people.

The psychological shock when they see in future what the beautiful society of equality and social justice means in practise, obviously they will revolt, they will be very unhappy, frustrated people.

Kimsang

Brian? wrote: »

The hawkish advisors he appointed. This is a special kind of mental leap here.

I would actually have had some respect for Trump if he hadn’t brought Bolton in in the first place. But Trump appointed Bolton, who has openly talked about regime change backed by the US military in Iran for 2 decades.

If both Trump and his advisors are dovish, their enemies won't take them seriously.

If both Trump and his advisors are hawks, their enemies would be afraid of this crazy combination; and rightly so.

Being dovish, and having Bolton is like playing a preemptive bluff- wouldn't you agree?

Midlife

Kimsang wrote: »

I see left and right as very real things, both terrible in their extremes. It would be like Germany and Soviets circa WWII. I'm not sure people realize how many of their own people were killed by the ideology of equality. The revolutionaries were often the first lined up against a wall and shot , or labelled dissidents and forced into gulags. Many here(and in society) seem to have forgotten this. (Socialists were also called earlier in this thread "militant vegan feminists that demand 27 gender pronouns for asparagus")(11 thanks). While everyone agrees nazis should not have power, why are we not as quick to object to socialists?

China and North Korea consider themselves left. This is how it works in the extreme. Look at the revolutionists in Cuba. All this comes about in the aspiration of equality often by any means necessary. Absolute equality is a futile aspiration. It has shown throughout history time and time again. While nazis killed jews because of race, Socialists kill dissidents because of what you say or do.

We are all swayed by voices, I agree, but it is largely left-wing media that get away with appealing to emotion rather that reason, and this is what worries me. Character assassinations like that of Roger Scruton authored by the very definition of champagne socialist would not sell if not for the people that are hungry to read about who the latest racist/misogynist/etc.. is. To stand up to this stampeding mob would mean instant annihilation of your reputation and your job. Victims must admit guilt, with no redemption, before the mob moves onto their next victim. There is no such thing on the right. From my perspective they also believe false-hoods and misinterpret facts, as we all do, but only one side is able to ever realize mistakes and apologize later. Apologies on the left have become admissions of guilt, they have inverted our shame guilt cultural dynamic. There is no road to redemption.


Citation

That writers deliberately mis-use quotes to sell stories is not what worries me. Its the people who continue to take things at face value and are so sure in their conviction. The never ending push towards 'equality'. Otherwise very reasonable people.

So communists bad, facists bad and then we're back to your absolute fixation on left leaning SJW's again?

I mean I think everyone gets it at this stage. Political correctness has been taken to far at times online and on social media. People have been tried and convicted by an online mob.

Why do you make this same point over and over and over in a thread about Donald Trump?

1349

batgoat wrote: »

Peterson more so has appealed to the alt right types and has actively played up to them in terms of rhetoric.

Here is Peterson addressing the alt right directly:

Professor Jordan B. Peterson wrote:

Grow the hell up and sort yourself out as an individual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BoOdMx_zDU


Yeah, he really plays up to them..

RIGOLO

America ... money talks ...
its not looking good for the Democrats.. but it is looking great for Donald TRump.

Donald TRump has raised over $35 MILLION dollars since launching his campaign , bringing to over $40 million the total amount he has available.

Just goes to show what a successful businessman can do .

All the anti-TRumpers were getting excited a few weeks back about Bernies 22million and posting how Bernie was trouncing Trump in the fund raising stakes, they missed the kind of important fact that TRump hadnt launched his campaign yet.
Donald fundraising is making bernie look like a poor relation.
I expect the $22 million Bernie has is a waste of money , Bernie aint going to win the nomination , not to mind the election.

Looks like the TRump Campaign will have a healthy war chest to spread the news about the TRump Administration great achievements in the run up to 2020.

As for the Democrats NAtional party finances ... they are embarrassing for the Democrats.
All that backing from Hollywood, all the main stream news and celebrity endorsements and the partys finances are in big trouble ..

https://ballotpedia.org/Party_committee_fundraising,_2019-2020

The DNC 6 million in debt and only 8million in cash... whilst the RNC has 37million in cash and no debt.

Committee Receipts Disbursements Cash on hand Debt owed
DNC $34,344,125 $35,785,375 $8,264,547 $5,984,996
RNC $76,383,932 $62,854,690 $37,030,804 $0

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

America ... money talks ...
its not looking good for the Democrats.. but it is looking great for Donald TRump.

Donald TRump has raised over $35 MILLION dollars since launching his campaign , bringing to over $40 million the total amount he has available.

Just goes to show what a successful businessman can do .

All the anti-TRumpers were getting excited a few weeks back about Bernies 22million and posting how Bernie was trouncing Trump in the fund raising stakes, they missed the kind of important fact that TRump hadnt launched his campaign yet.
Donald fundraising is making bernie look like a poor relation.
I expect the $22 million Bernie has is a waste of money , Bernie aint going to win the nomination , not to mind the election.

Looks like the TRump Campaign will have a healthy war chest to spread the news about the TRump Administration great achievements in the run up to 2020.

As for the Democrats NAtional party finances ... they are embarrassing for the Democrats.
All that backing from Hollywood, all the main stream news and celebrity endorsements and the partys finances are in big trouble ..

https://ballotpedia.org/Party_committee_fundraising,_2019-2020

The DNC 6 million in debt and only 8million in cash... whilst the RNC has 37million in cash and no debt.

Committee Receipts Disbursements Cash on hand Debt owed
DNC $34,344,125 $35,785,375 $8,264,547 $5,984,996
RNC $76,383,932 $62,854,690 $37,030,804 $0

I stopped reading at "successful businessman" being honest.

RIGOLO

everlast75 wrote: »

I stopped reading at "successful businessman" being honest.

Thats ok ... I didnt ...

StringerBell

Beto raised quite a bit of money for that Senate run didn't he?

Also, Trump seems to corner the market on misleading what people are donating to.

If he wasn't raising a lot of money given everything he is doing it would be puzzling to say the least.

Leroy42

Wait. Didn't HC have massive fundraising in 2016 and Trump continually stated that he didn't need the money for his campaign?

But now Rigolo is on board the Trump train because he raises the most money?

And shouldn't Trump be using his time aboard AF1 to get prepped for his meeting with Putin at G20? You know the meeting where he is going to demand that Putin put a stop to Russian interference in US elections and demand he makes a public statement admitting he lied to Trump in Helsinki causing Trump to choose Russia over his own security services?

spacecoyote

He really is completely tone deaf. Ahead of the G20, he's also now having a pop at Japan, stating that the US-Japan Defence Alliance is totally one sided. In his words:

“If Japan is attacked, we will fight World War III. We will go in and protect them with our lives and with our treasure...We will fight at all costs...but if we are attacked, Japan doesn’t have to help us at all. They can watch on a Sony television.”

Dytalus

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I don't think a reddit quarantine means much. Kinda like a mod warning rather than a total ban...

Just to clarify on this (and I know I'm super late to the party on it, was out all last evening), a quarantine is quite a bit more severe than a mod warning.

• No revenue generation (ads or Reddit 'Gold') can happen, and it's long been considered that T_D kept getting away with breaking (or at least flaunting) Reddit's rules because of the huge amount of reddit Gold that was purchased on the subreddit. Remove that, and the admins have even less reason to put up with it.
• Only email verified accounts can post, or even see the subreddit. T_D was always suspected to be filled with bots upvoting content, and now that the quarantine has gone in place their posts are getting a tiny fraction of the upvotes they were getting before. Not huge in and of itself, but it's something to add to the pile.
• No visibility. Like I said above, only email verified accounts can see the sub. Plus it no longer winds up on /r/all or similar front-page style parts of the site, massively reducing the number of people who can see T_D posts. And I'm pretty sure mobile viewers cannot access the sub at all, which is a big deal given over half of reddit's users access the site on mobile apps.
• Removed the custom CSS which had hidden both the 'Report' button and the downvote button.

Quarantine is basically reducing a sub to a kind of persona non grata status, and has in the past lead to the slow death of subs, or acted as a stepping stone to a full ban.

It's not the full ban T_D probably should have gotten for all the rules they've broken, and for advocating violence recently, but it's considerably more than a slap on the wrist. Locking out one of the most populated and active forums for Trump supporters, and in particular one which had mountains of evidence of its acting as a breeding ground for racist, xenophobic, and violent rhetoric, is a pretty considerable step.

pixelburp

spacecoyote wrote: »

He really is completely tone deaf. Ahead of the G20, he's also now having a pop at Japan, stating that the US-Japan Defence Alliance is totally one sided. In his words:

“If Japan is attacked, we will fight World War III. We will go in and protect them with our lives and with our treasure...We will fight at all costs...but if we are attacked, Japan doesn’t have to help us at all. They can watch on a Sony television.”

It's kinda sad at this stage; you'd think Japan's Pacifist constitution and "self defence forces" would be geopolitics 101 - yet it's a continuing, sad indictment of the preparedness and education of the sitting President that this pretty basic nugget of information is beyond him. I think Japan sent 30 military engineers to Iraq a few years back, and it necessitated some ad-hoc bill in government to allow them to do so. Their constitution is storied and pretty clear.

Then again, I'd say 99% of his base, and a large chunk of his supporters wouldn't be aware of Japan's military status either (a status imposed by the US & General McArthur too, IIIRC) so maybe it's wasted breath. And hey, we've moved on from his disgusting rape comments, so this is the Trump Effect in motion: shotgun brain-farts. There'll be another one soon enough.

everlast75 wrote: »

I stopped reading at "successful businessman" being honest.

To be fair, Trump has successfully cultivated the MYTH of being a successful businessman; he spent the 80s and 90s making sure everyone read "Donald Trump", and thought "billionaire". Whether it was demanding the 'Fresh Prince of Bell Air' (I think) writers changed the script so he was called a billionaire instead of millionaire, or "John Barron" ringing into newspapers to wax lyrical about all the celebrities Trump is sleeping with, the man has spent his life generating a brand. The Apprentice was probably the zenith: primetime TV where he got to rule the roost over desperate / media-hungry entrpeneurs. That he still brings that up, and uses "ratings" as the metrics of his presidential popularity, speaks to how he cherishes that time.

Of course, the reality is that he's a trust fund Boomer, who got a leg up thanks to Daddy's loan, and an enviable, inherited portfolio of Manhattan real estate. Anyone who tries to flog $1000 frozen steaks, fails to run airlines, media companies, golf clubs, and can't make money from a casino, can be legitimately questioned as to being a "successful businessman".

Steve Jobs was a successful businessman - he took his well-publicised failures and pushed onwards (often at the cost of others mind you). Trump wants assumed success and veneration and seems unwilling to put the work in.

dr.fuzzenstein

everlast75 wrote: »

I stopped reading at "successful businessman" being honest.

I stop reading at rigolo

PropJoe10

RIGOLO wrote: »

America ... money talks ...
its not looking good for the Democrats.. but it is looking great for Donald TRump.

Donald TRump has raised over $35 MILLION dollars since launching his campaign , bringing to over $40 million the total amount he has available.

Just goes to show what a successful businessman can do .

All the anti-TRumpers were getting excited a few weeks back about Bernies 22million and posting how Bernie was trouncing Trump in the fund raising stakes, they missed the kind of important fact that TRump hadnt launched his campaign yet.
Donald fundraising is making bernie look like a poor relation.
I expect the $22 million Bernie has is a waste of money , Bernie aint going to win the nomination , not to mind the election.

Looks like the TRump Campaign will have a healthy war chest to spread the news about the TRump Administration great achievements in the run up to 2020.

As for the Democrats NAtional party finances ... they are embarrassing for the Democrats.
All that backing from Hollywood, all the main stream news and celebrity endorsements and the partys finances are in big trouble ..

https://ballotpedia.org/Party_committee_fundraising,_2019-2020

The DNC 6 million in debt and only 8million in cash... whilst the RNC has 37million in cash and no debt.

Committee Receipts Disbursements Cash on hand Debt owed
DNC $34,344,125 $35,785,375 $8,264,547 $5,984,996
RNC $76,383,932 $62,854,690 $37,030,804 $0

Utter drivel from start to finish.

Out of interest, how are you feeling about The Donald's own pollsters having him behind the majority of the Democratic field? Or are you also a subscriber to "if Donald says he's ahead, he's ahead"?

Brian?

Kimsang wrote: »

If both Trump and his advisors are dovish, their enemies won't take them seriously.

If both Trump and his advisors are hawks, their enemies would be afraid of this crazy combination; and rightly so.

Being dovish, and having Bolton is like playing a preemptive bluff- wouldn't you agree?

No I wouldn't agree at all. Geopolitics isn't a game of poker. It's an extremely serious subject.

Their enemies don't take them seriously because there's no consistency in their approach.

TomOnBoard

Well, the first night of debates didn't end up in the Dem bloodbath or circular firing squad that many feared. O'Rourke was my surprise of the night- he didn't seem to bring his 'A' game at all and seemed to get beaten up by Castro on a few issues. Warren did what she needed to and her performance out of the gate was very strong, although she seemed to lag later. I didn't rate de Blasio , Ryan, Delaney or Klobuchar. Gabbard wasn't particularly memorable and Booker talked a lot. Inslee? I don't remember...

StringerBell

Castro had a good night. The format doesn't suit Beto nor Booker.

Warren was the centre piece as expected but Castro and de Blasio did alright. Ryan was pretty anonymous along with Gabbard, the climate guy and AK mostly.

pixelburp

There's always going to be at least one bolter among the "nothing to lose" group, you could certainly sense a certain desperate energy in the likes of DeBlasio, Castro et al. All they can hope to do is ruffle the feathers of those higher up the polls. No more than Chris Christie briefly saw a surge in support / interest during the 2016 Rep. primaries, it'll fade quickly enough. Warren was about the only candidate on stage who came off vaguely "genuine". Maybe Inslee, if only for his honest "climate change" platform.

TheDiceMan2020

pixelburp wrote: »

There's always going to be at least one bolter among the "nothing to lose" group, you could certainly sense a certain desperate energy in the likes of DeBlasio, Castro et al. All they can hope to do is ruffle the feathers of those higher up the polls. No more than Chris Christie briefly saw a surge in support / interest during the 2016 Rep. primaries, it'll fade quickly enough. Warren was about the only candidate on stage who came off vaguely "genuine". Maybe Inslee, if only for his honest "climate change" platform.

Warren "genuine" - Christ they really are screwed so because she's an out and out fraud.

The Phantom Jipper

TheDiceMan2020 wrote: »

Warren "genuine" - Christ they really are screwed so because she's an out and out fraud.

A fraud in what sense? I can see some of the criticisms of her, but I wouldn't have thought being inauthentic was one of them. Much of her career has been based around consumer protection and regulating big corporations, which is the bulk of what she talks about on the campaign.

Leroy42

After Trump and his continued support inauthentic is not a label that should ever be used in the context of US politics.

It clearly doesn't matter a lot.

TheDiceMan2020

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

A fraud in what sense? I can see some of the criticisms of her, but I wouldn't have thought being inauthentic was one of them. Much of her career has been based around consumer protection and regulating big corporations, which is the bulk of what she talks about on the campaign.

Eh? You must have missed the bit where her whole life story of being native American turned out to be complete bull****. Not to mention her contributing to a native American cookbook and being touted as a diversity hire at Harvard. She's fcuking whiter than I am!

It was all lies to advance her own career.

The Phantom Jipper

TheDiceMan2020 wrote: »

Eh? You must have missed the bit where her whole life story of being native American turned out to be complete bull****. Not to mention her contributing to a native American cookbook and being touted as a diversity hire at Harvard. She's fcuking whiter than I am!

It was all lies to advance her own career.

Ah sorry, I didn't realise you were still trying to make "Pocahontas" become a thing.

Dytalus

TheDiceMan2020 wrote: »

Eh? You must have missed the bit where her whole life story of being native American turned out to be complete bull****. Not to mention her contributing to a native American cookbook and being touted as a diversity hire at Harvard. She's fcuking whiter than I am!

It was all lies to advance her own career.

All of which she has explicitly apologised for, an apology that was accepted by the leadership of the Cherokee nation. She never even claimed it publicly all that frequently prior to 2012. And there's documented evidence that her claim didn't influence her hiring.

Of all the things to dislike a politician over, this has to be one of the most ridiculous. If we start ruling out politicians for every little thing, there won't be any politicians left. I can't think of many that don't have some kind of dirt swept under the rug, or skeletons in the closet.

duploelabs

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Ah sorry, I didn't realise you were still trying to make "Pocahontas" become a thing.

Pocahontas is the new birther don't you know???

TheDiceMan2020

TheDiceMan2020 wrote: »

Eh? You must have missed the bit where her whole life story of being native American turned out to be complete bull****. Not to mention her contributing to a native American cookbook and being touted as a diversity hire at Harvard. She's fcuking whiter than I am!

It was all lies to advance her own career.

Trump lies nearly every time he opens his mouth. Do you have the same level of outrage over that?

Timberrrrrrrr

TheDiceMan2020 wrote: »

Eh? You must have missed the bit where her whole life story of being native American turned out to be complete bull****. Not to mention her contributing to a native American cookbook and being touted as a diversity hire at Harvard. She's fcuking whiter than I am!

It was all lies to advance her own career.

Any comment to make on the 11,000+ lies Trump has told since he became president?