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Fixed Charge Offence issued in error

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    #32
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    seamus wrote: »
    The details matched.

    Cars are frequently registered in batches by dealers.

    So if you an I buy a new black VW Golf from the same dealer, there's a good chance yours will have reg 182-D-1234 and mine might have 182-D-1243. He bought 20 black Golfs, and registered them all at the same time.

    Fast-forward five years, I'm in Galway and I have no tax. I park my car and the Garda spots it, takes down the details, but writes down 182-D-1234 instead of 43.

    Details get checked - black VW Golf, yep - fine gets issued.

    The only way to fix this is to provide Gardai with handheld devices for issuing FCPNs, which include APNR in them, so there can be no typos or transposition errors.

    A dealer can't register a car until it is leaving the premises because the name and address of the first ower are needed for registration. It could happen that a dealer takes orders for a number of cars and they are deliverded together and the new owners come at the same time or close in time to collect them. In that case it could happen that cars of similar make and colour have similar number plates. eg 182 Xl 5012 and 182 xl 5021


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    #33
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    What a pure joke of a system.

    Have you bring living under a rock?


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    #34
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,266 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    GM228 wrote: »
    Dealers register cars when they sell them, not when they acquired them. The chances of 20 identical cars with 20 sequential plates is next to impossible.

    Happens the whole time as fleet companies and hire companies take batch deliveries.


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    #35
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,181 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Can OP check Cartell for the reg of 10 cars registered before and after his to see if a single car matches make and model?


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    #36
    ezra_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭ezra_


    GM228 wrote: »
    Dealers register cars when they sell them, not when they acquired them. The chances of 20 identical cars with 20 sequential plates is next to impossible.

    I ended up working in an office where there was another person who had a car the same colour, same model, same year and three digits off my reg. Mine had less scratches, but I don't think that helps in the OPs situation.


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    #37
    Graniteville
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Graniteville


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    What a pure joke of a system.

    The opposite- its the perfect system so that joey can't get his garda mate to wipe a load of tickets.

    People make errors. This is very simply sorted by filling ina quick form, signing it and sending it.

    Very slight inconvenience and if it happened to me, i'd have no problem whatsoever as I know joey can't get off his dangerous driving/ drink driving / non insurance ticket.


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    #38
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,181 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Graniteville wrote: »
    The opposite- its the perfect system so that joey can't get his garda mate to wipe a load of tickets.

    People make errors. This is very simply sorted by filling ina quick form, signing it and sending it.

    Very slight inconvenience and if it happened to me, i'd have no problem whatsoever as I know joey can't get off his dangerous driving/ drink driving / non insurance ticket.

    But is it not much worse that someone completely innocent gets a ticket? What next a similar error on a search warrant?


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    #39
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Graniteville wrote: »

    Very slight inconvenience and if it happened to me, i'd have no problem whatsoever as I know joey can't get off his dangerous driving/ drink driving / non insurance ticket.

    Good for you but some people might find the threat of an unwarranted prosecution extremely stressful.


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    #40
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,181 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Good for you but some people might find the threat of an unwarranted prosecution extremely stressful.

    And also fear of a clone of their car driving around.


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    #41
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GM228 wrote: »
    Dealers register cars when they sell them, not when they acquired them. The chances of 20 identical cars with 20 sequential plates is next to impossible.

    The two numbers down and one up from mine are identical. Distributor registered the entire stock (to themselves) for some odd reason. There's a run of about 15 of the same car in different colours but all my colour are in a row


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    #42
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    L1011 wrote: »
    The two numbers down and one up from mine are identical. Distributor registered the entire stock (to themselves) for some odd reason. There's a run of about 15 of the same car in different colours but all my colour are in a row

    Dealers hold their vehicles as "stock in trade" and can't legally register them unless they are demos or courtesy cars for example - i.e the dealer themselves become the registered legal owner, in which case when it is sold to a customer it is then a used vehicle, or "nearly new" as they like to describe them.


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    #43
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They were registered to the distributor (not dealer) and sold as pre-reg, legally second hand. I'm down as owner #2 on the log book.

    I have no idea why they did that except possibly some odd justification for cutting the price - I paid very substantially less than list. 20km on the clock most of which was my test drive


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    #44
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    But is it not much worse that someone completely innocent gets a ticket? What next a similar error on a search warrant?

    What about the kids!

    It's a simple mistake and easily rectified.


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    #45
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,181 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    What about the kids!

    It's a simple mistake and easily rectified.

    How is it easily rectified? The ticket makes no provision for any appeal based on it not being your car?

    Being told to call the Garda yourself leaves it open to all sorts.


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    #46
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    How is it easily rectified? The ticket makes no provision for any appeal based on it not being your car?

    Being told to call the Garda yourself leaves it open to all sorts.

    There is an appeals process. It's not difficult.

    https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Fixed-Charge-Notices/Cancelling-Fixed-Charge-Notices.html


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    #47
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,181 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    There is an appeals process. It's not difficult.

    https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Fixed-Charge-Notices/Cancelling-Fixed-Charge-Notices.html


    Where's the option for it not being your car?

    Cancellation Request Reason (tick one): SEE NOTES FOR GUIDANCE
    Category A
    1
    □
    Detection issue / material error
    2
    □
    Seat Belt Exemption
    3
    □
    Statutory Exemption
    □
    Emergency Vehicle (Complete Section C below)
    4
    □
    Non-display of motor tax or insurance disc
    5
    □
    Vehicle was stolen
    6
    □
    Vehicle registered owner details
    7
    □
    Under 18 years of age
    Category B
    8
    □
    Exceptional Circumstances

    https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Fixed-Charge-Notices/fcn-cancellation-request-form-new.pdf


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    #48
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Where's the option for it not being your car?




    https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Fixed-Charge-Notices/fcn-cancellation-request-form-new.pdf

    Option one.


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    #49
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    L1011 wrote: »
    They were registered to the distributor (not dealer) and sold as pre-reg, legally second hand. I'm down as owner #2 on the log book.

    I have no idea why they did that except possibly some odd justification for cutting the price - I paid very substantially less than list. 20km on the clock most of which was my test drive

    It was done apparently to keep the sales numbers up. They didn't want to lose their placing in the rankings of sales.


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    #50
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,181 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Option one.


    That's a detection error, the system they have in place means the Garda records the make and model and submits it with the registration do they not? How could it be a detection error if that was followed? Appeal would be laughed at, computer says no etc etc.


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    #51
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    That's a detection error, the system they have in place means the Garda records the make and model and submits it with the registration do they not? How could it be a detection error if that was followed? Appeal would be laughed at, computer says no etc etc.

    Incorrect. Read it again.


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    #52
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,181 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Incorrect. Read it again.


    I don't see a "gross incompetence at the issuing office" option?


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    #53
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    I don't see a "gross incompetence at the issuing office" option?

    Try looking around the chip on your shoulder.


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    #54
    zdragon
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭zdragon


    AlBren wrote: »
    Hi,

    I really need some advice.

    I got a fixed charge offence in the post this morning. It states "failing to display a current vehicle licence-use (non Display of a tax disc)". It was issued for a date in September, in Galway. The time was 18:30.

    I have never driven in Galway. Also, on the date and time in question, I was at my GP, who then sent me into A&E.

    There must have been a mistake somewhere. I've contacted my GP, who has agreed to supply a letter stating that I was attending their services at that time. I rang the number given on the notice, they told me to speak to the garda who issued the notice, but he won't be around until the evening.

    I'm not sure what to expect. Neither do I know what I should do next.

    Do i pay the charge, and expect a refund when everything is sorted?

    Or pay nothing as I've done nothing wrong?
    Any help or tips (in line with boards.ie rules) would be much appreciated.
    there is an appeal procedure . use it, usually they are fast


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    #55
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    That's a detection error, the system they have in place means the Garda records the make and model and submits it with the registration do they not? How could it be a detection error if that was followed? Appeal would be laughed at, computer says no etc etc.

    Detection issue / material error

    I have bolded the part you seem to have missed.


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    #56
    AlBren
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭AlBren


    I have the cancellation request letter. I dropped into Pearse street Garda station yesterday, they said that the cancellation request should be under category 4 (non-display of motor tax or insurance disc). However, I was told by the Garda who flagged the offence that it should come under category 1 (detection issue/material error).

    So more confusion.

    I think I'll ring them again, get this sorted.


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    #57
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    AlBren wrote: »
    I have the cancellation request letter. I dropped into Pearse street Garda station yesterday, they said that the cancellation request should be under category 4 (non-display of motor tax or insurance disc). However, I was told by the Garda who flagged the offence that it should come under category 1 (detection issue/material error).

    So more confusion.

    I think I'll ring them again, get this sorted.

    It's category one.


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    #58
    AlBren
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭AlBren


    hey all!
    thought I'd give you an update.

    the fine has been cancelled.

    Thanks to everyone!


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    #59
    Peeling1979
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Peeling1979


    Hi folks,

    Might resurrect this thread as I’ve an issue here too - material issue with the issuance of a speeding fine - photo of car speeding is not my car - I intend to appeal and expect to be successful (despite some shocking interactions with the Fixed Charge Processing Office).

    I’ve read the thread here WRT the process of checking versus the NVDF, i.e. if it’s AGS it is checked, if it’s a private company it is not.

    Can somebody tell me what category a FCPN commencing with the letter ‘S’ is? Private Company or AGS? I asked the same question of Fixed Charge Processing Office but was stonewalled.

    Thanks in advance.



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