Fixed Charge Offence issued in error

AlBren

Hi,

I really need some advice.

I got a fixed charge offence in the post this morning. It states "failing to display a current vehicle licence-use (non Display of a tax disc)". It was issued for a date in September, in Galway. The time was 18:30.

I have never driven in Galway. Also, on the date and time in question, I was at my GP, who then sent me into A&E.

There must have been a mistake somewhere. I've contacted my GP, who has agreed to supply a letter stating that I was attending their services at that time. I rang the number given on the notice, they told me to speak to the garda who issued the notice, but he won't be around until the evening.

I'm not sure what to expect. Neither do I know what I should do next.

Do i pay the charge, and expect a refund when everything is sorted?

Or pay nothing as I've done nothing wrong?
Any help or tips (in line with boards.ie rules) would be much appreciated.

Under His Eye

Fire off a letter to Galway CC explaining your vehicle was elsewhere and ask them to check their records.

Await their response either cancelling the ticket or refusing the appeal.

I wouldn't pay as paying is accepting guilt and the matter is then closed.

ohnonotgmail

Can you not ask them for a copy of the photo they took of the vehicle? they may have just transcribed the reg no incorrectly

Dayo93

Contact Garda that issued the notice, Had the same for a parking ticket in Bray , Turned out he had taken down the reg wrong

CPTM

Definitely contact the garda in question. It could be somebody with fake plates on their car.

AlBren

Thanks guys!

I will hopefully be speaking to the garda who issued the ticket this evening. I'll ask if he has a picture of the vehicle. I'm guessing the reg number must have been wrong.

I've also emailed the motor tax office, they'll send confirmation that my car was taxed at the time.

My hope is that when I get to speak to the gard, he'll decide to cancel the ticket this evening.

If not, I'm not sure where to go.

I will have the letter from my GP on Wednesday, explaining that at that time, I was with them.

ED E

Other posters have stated that upon entry into pulse the make/model is confirmed against the reg. If the member wrote down 11D1234 instead of 11D1235 then the chances of getting the same model in the same colour aren't that high.

A cloned plate on the other hands would intentionally match your car. Be prepared for more of these.

Atlantic Dawn

Dayo93 wrote: »

Contact Garda that issued the notice, Had the same for a parking ticket in Bray , Turned out he had taken down the reg wrong

How does that happen surely seeing as they are submitting the notice with zero photo to back them up the minimum they would be required to do is actually submit the make and model of the car so this keystone cop error can't happen and you be accused completely wrong? Or would that sound too much like sense?

Mod
We have Gárdaí here rather than "keystones"

AlBren

I just talked to the garda on the phone.

There was a typographical error with a similar number plate being noted as mine.

He does not have the authority to cancel the notice himself, so I have to fill in a form and send it off. So I'm relieved that was sorted today.

Thanks for the help!

Atlantic Dawn

AlBren wrote: »

I just talked to the garda on the phone.

There was a typographical error with a similar number plate being noted as mine.

He does not have the authority to cancel the notice himself, so I have to fill in a form and send it off. So I'm relieved that was sorted today.

Thanks for the help!

What a pure joke of a system.

Alkers

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

What a pure joke of a system.

Well given recent headlines, it doesn't seem a bad idea...

Atlantic Dawn

Simona1986 wrote: »

Well given recent headlines, it doesn't seem a bad idea...

If a simple idea like make and model had to be submitted with the correct plate for the notice to be valid the error couldn't happen, how hard would that be to implement?

Why should an innocent member of the public have to correct complete incompetence.

Victor

AlBren wrote: »

Also, on the date and time in question, I was at my GP, who then sent me into A&E.

There must have been a mistake somewhere. I've contacted my GP, who has agreed to supply a letter stating that I was attending their services at that time.

Presumably, all the GP could do is say you were attending their services at that time, not that your car was with your.

AlBren

Victor wrote: »

Presumably, all the GP could do is say you were attending their services at that time, not that your car was with your.

The idea behind the letter was simply to show that there was no way I could have been anywhere near Galway at that time.

Victor

AlBren wrote: »

The idea behind the letter was simply to show that there was no way I could have been anywhere near Galway at that time.

Sure, I understand that.

However, many offences apply to both the driver and the registered keeper of the vehicle.

AlBren

Victor wrote: »

Sure, I understand that.

However, many offences apply to both the driver and the registered keeper of the vehicle.

It didn't come to needing it though, so that's a relief. Even though I drove that car to the GP.....

GM228

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If a simple idea like make and model had to be submitted with the correct plate for the notice to be valid the error couldn't happen, how hard would that be to implement?

Why should an innocent member of the public have to correct complete incompetence.

Make, model and colour already has to be submitted, these are checked against the details on the NVDF.

These details must be recorded and they are checked, if they are missing or not matching the NVDF details then the FCPN is not issued until clarification is sought from the issuing member.

ohnonotgmail

AlBren wrote: »

I just talked to the garda on the phone.

There was a typographical error with a similar number plate being noted as mine.

He does not have the authority to cancel the notice himself, so I have to fill in a form and send it off. So I'm relieved that was sorted today.

Thanks for the help!

GM228 wrote: »

Make, model and colour already has to be submitted, these are checked against the details on the NVDF.

These details must be recorded and they are checked, if they are missing or not matching the NVDF details then the FCPN is not issued until clarification is sought from the issuing member.

it seems the system doesnt work as well as it should.

GM228

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it seems the system doesnt work as well as it should.

A "topographical error" could mean anything and does not show the system does not work.

In fact the very fact those details are taken could be what made the Guard realise it's an error - the details could have been taken and checked correctly, but, somehow the wrong registration was used for FCPN issue for example.

ohnonotgmail

GM228 wrote: »

A "topographical error" could mean anything and does not show the system does not work.

In fact the very fact those details are taken could be what made the Guard realise it's an error - the details could have been taken and checked correctly, but, somehow the wrong registration was used for FCPN issue for example.

that would suggest that the details are entered again to create the FCPN which doesnt seem like a brilliant system. The details have already been entered and checked so why not use the details that have been entered?

GM228

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that would suggest that the details are entered again to create the FCPN which doesnt seem like a brilliant system. The details have already been entered and checked so why not use the details that have been entered?

When a FCPN notice is issued the details are first checked by the Fixed Charge Processing Office against the NVDF. Once checked a private company actually print the FCPN, they are sent just a registration, name and address, it is possible at this stage that an error can occur.

If something is wrong or missing the issuing member must clarify the details, if still wrong or they didn't take the details in the first place then a FCPN will not issue.

Red Alert

AlBren wrote: »

He does not have the authority to cancel the notice himself,

We have our "esteemed" journalists and self-righteous politicians to thank for that state of affairs.

Atlantic Dawn

GM228 wrote: »

Make, model and colour already has to be submitted, these are checked against the details on the NVDF.

These details must be recorded and they are checked, if they are missing or not matching the NVDF details then the FCPN is not issued until clarification is sought from the issuing member.

Then how did OP get ticket?

ezra_

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Then how did OP get ticket?

Transcription error after that check?

Auguste Comte

Red Alert wrote: »

AlBren wrote: »

He does not have the authority to cancel the notice himself,

We have our "esteemed" journalists and self-righteous politicians to thank for that state of affairs.

Or corrupt self serving members of AGS abusing the system that did allow for it.

But blame the messenger.

ohnonotgmail

ezra_ wrote: »

Transcription error after that check?

why would there be manual transcription after the check? if there is manual transcription after the check then the system is a little bit sh*t.

seamus

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Then how did OP get ticket?

The details matched.

Cars are frequently registered in batches by dealers.

So if you an I buy a new black VW Golf from the same dealer, there's a good chance yours will have reg 182-D-1234 and mine might have 182-D-1243. He bought 20 black Golfs, and registered them all at the same time.

Fast-forward five years, I'm in Galway and I have no tax. I park my car and the Garda spots it, takes down the details, but writes down 182-D-1234 instead of 43.

Details get checked - black VW Golf, yep - fine gets issued.

The only way to fix this is to provide Gardai with handheld devices for issuing FCPNs, which include APNR in them, so there can be no typos or transposition errors.

GM228

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Then how did OP get ticket?

As I said there is a third party who actually print and issue the FCPN, the Processing office don't actually print or issue them, there is always a possibility for a mix up when your swapping details.

ohnonotgmail

GM228 wrote: »

As I said there is a third party who actually print and issue the FCPN, the Processing office don't actually print or issue them, there is always a possibility for a mix up when your swapping details.

Only if that swapping of details involves manual transcription.

RustyNut

seamus wrote: »

The only way to fix this is to provide Gardai with handheld devices for issuing FCPNs, which include APNR in them, so there can be no typos or transposition errors.

Or allow claims to be taken for negligent prosecution.

GM228

seamus wrote: »

The details matched.

Cars are frequently registered in batches by dealers.

So if you an I buy a new black VW Golf from the same dealer, there's a good chance yours will have reg 182-D-1234 and mine might have 182-D-1243. He bought 20 black Golfs, and registered them all at the same time.

Fast-forward five years, I'm in Galway and I have no tax. I park my car and the Garda spots it, takes down the details, but writes down 182-D-1234 instead of 43.

Details get checked - black VW Golf, yep - fine gets issued.

The only way to fix this is to provide Gardai with handheld devices for issuing FCPNs, which include APNR in them, so there can be no typos or transposition errors.

Dealers register cars when they sell them, not when they acquired them. The chances of 20 identical cars with 20 sequential plates is next to impossible.

Claw Hammer

seamus wrote: »

The details matched.

Cars are frequently registered in batches by dealers.

So if you an I buy a new black VW Golf from the same dealer, there's a good chance yours will have reg 182-D-1234 and mine might have 182-D-1243. He bought 20 black Golfs, and registered them all at the same time.

Fast-forward five years, I'm in Galway and I have no tax. I park my car and the Garda spots it, takes down the details, but writes down 182-D-1234 instead of 43.

Details get checked - black VW Golf, yep - fine gets issued.

The only way to fix this is to provide Gardai with handheld devices for issuing FCPNs, which include APNR in them, so there can be no typos or transposition errors.

A dealer can't register a car until it is leaving the premises because the name and address of the first ower are needed for registration. It could happen that a dealer takes orders for a number of cars and they are deliverded together and the new owners come at the same time or close in time to collect them. In that case it could happen that cars of similar make and colour have similar number plates. eg 182 Xl 5012 and 182 xl 5021

ted1

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What a pure joke of a system.

Have you bring living under a rock?

ted1

GM228 wrote: »

Dealers register cars when they sell them, not when they acquired them. The chances of 20 identical cars with 20 sequential plates is next to impossible.

Happens the whole time as fleet companies and hire companies take batch deliveries.

Atlantic Dawn

Can OP check Cartell for the reg of 10 cars registered before and after his to see if a single car matches make and model?

ezra_

GM228 wrote: »

Dealers register cars when they sell them, not when they acquired them. The chances of 20 identical cars with 20 sequential plates is next to impossible.

I ended up working in an office where there was another person who had a car the same colour, same model, same year and three digits off my reg. Mine had less scratches, but I don't think that helps in the OPs situation.

Graniteville

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What a pure joke of a system.

The opposite- its the perfect system so that joey can't get his garda mate to wipe a load of tickets.

People make errors. This is very simply sorted by filling ina quick form, signing it and sending it.

Very slight inconvenience and if it happened to me, i'd have no problem whatsoever as I know joey can't get off his dangerous driving/ drink driving / non insurance ticket.

Atlantic Dawn

Graniteville wrote: »

The opposite- its the perfect system so that joey can't get his garda mate to wipe a load of tickets.

People make errors. This is very simply sorted by filling ina quick form, signing it and sending it.

Very slight inconvenience and if it happened to me, i'd have no problem whatsoever as I know joey can't get off his dangerous driving/ drink driving / non insurance ticket.

But is it not much worse that someone completely innocent gets a ticket? What next a similar error on a search warrant?

RustyNut

Graniteville wrote: »

Very slight inconvenience and if it happened to me, i'd have no problem whatsoever as I know joey can't get off his dangerous driving/ drink driving / non insurance ticket.

Good for you but some people might find the threat of an unwarranted prosecution extremely stressful.

Atlantic Dawn

RustyNut wrote: »

Good for you but some people might find the threat of an unwarranted prosecution extremely stressful.

And also fear of a clone of their car driving around.

L1011

GM228 wrote: »

Dealers register cars when they sell them, not when they acquired them. The chances of 20 identical cars with 20 sequential plates is next to impossible.

The two numbers down and one up from mine are identical. Distributor registered the entire stock (to themselves) for some odd reason. There's a run of about 15 of the same car in different colours but all my colour are in a row

GM228

L1011 wrote: »

The two numbers down and one up from mine are identical. Distributor registered the entire stock (to themselves) for some odd reason. There's a run of about 15 of the same car in different colours but all my colour are in a row

Dealers hold their vehicles as "stock in trade" and can't legally register them unless they are demos or courtesy cars for example - i.e the dealer themselves become the registered legal owner, in which case when it is sold to a customer it is then a used vehicle, or "nearly new" as they like to describe them.

L1011

They were registered to the distributor (not dealer) and sold as pre-reg, legally second hand. I'm down as owner #2 on the log book.

I have no idea why they did that except possibly some odd justification for cutting the price - I paid very substantially less than list. 20km on the clock most of which was my test drive

runawaybishop

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

But is it not much worse that someone completely innocent gets a ticket? What next a similar error on a search warrant?

What about the kids!

It's a simple mistake and easily rectified.

Atlantic Dawn

runawaybishop wrote: »

What about the kids!

It's a simple mistake and easily rectified.

How is it easily rectified? The ticket makes no provision for any appeal based on it not being your car?

Being told to call the Garda yourself leaves it open to all sorts.

runawaybishop

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

How is it easily rectified? The ticket makes no provision for any appeal based on it not being your car?

Being told to call the Garda yourself leaves it open to all sorts.

There is an appeals process. It's not difficult.

https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Fixed-Charge-Notices/Cancelling-Fixed-Charge-Notices.html

Atlantic Dawn

runawaybishop wrote: »

There is an appeals process. It's not difficult.

https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Fixed-Charge-Notices/Cancelling-Fixed-Charge-Notices.html

Where's the option for it not being your car?

Cancellation Request Reason (tick one): SEE NOTES FOR GUIDANCE
Category A
1
□
Detection issue / material error
2
□
Seat Belt Exemption
3
□
Statutory Exemption
□
Emergency Vehicle (Complete Section C below)
4
□
Non-display of motor tax or insurance disc
5
□
Vehicle was stolen
6
□
Vehicle registered owner details
7
□
Under 18 years of age
Category B
8
□
Exceptional Circumstances

https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Fixed-Charge-Notices/fcn-cancellation-request-form-new.pdf

runawaybishop

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Where's the option for it not being your car?




https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Fixed-Charge-Notices/fcn-cancellation-request-form-new.pdf

Option one.

4ensic15

L1011 wrote: »

They were registered to the distributor (not dealer) and sold as pre-reg, legally second hand. I'm down as owner #2 on the log book.

I have no idea why they did that except possibly some odd justification for cutting the price - I paid very substantially less than list. 20km on the clock most of which was my test drive

It was done apparently to keep the sales numbers up. They didn't want to lose their placing in the rankings of sales.

Atlantic Dawn

runawaybishop wrote: »

Option one.

That's a detection error, the system they have in place means the Garda records the make and model and submits it with the registration do they not? How could it be a detection error if that was followed? Appeal would be laughed at, computer says no etc etc.

runawaybishop

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

That's a detection error, the system they have in place means the Garda records the make and model and submits it with the registration do they not? How could it be a detection error if that was followed? Appeal would be laughed at, computer says no etc etc.

Incorrect. Read it again.