EI staff stealing says boss

zell12

€m's stolen from passengers and airline by AerLingus staff says their COO

Bussywussy

zell12 wrote: »

€m's stolen from passengers and airline by AerLingus staff says their COO

Should have a little Google into Rutters past too

Stovepipe

To no-one's surprise, staff are fuming at Rutter's lumping together of all staff as thieves. I expect striped work gear, rock breaking hammers and leg irons to be issued shortly.....

kub

Great management practice there in improving staff morale.

Needles73

kub wrote: »

Great management practice there in improving staff morale.

Serious question. How should they resolve the issues with theft ? I don’t particularly like the way they’ve done it but surely cctv and extra security checks are required ?

kevinandrew

Mike Rutter’s management “style” is more suited to Ryanair, his communication skills are woeful and his air of superiority is sickening. Some of the internal communications with him at the helm are painful to watch or read, it feels like a headteacher scolding his naughty students. I was pleased to see IAG were wise enough not to give him the CEO role after Kavanaghs departure.


With that being said, theft is unnaceptable and incredibly damaging to the business and brand. I worked in management for a large (non aviation) business that suffered terribly from theft, particularly involving staff so we had to implement CCTV in work and rest areas, carry out spot checks and start the tracking of goods within our business in order to cut losses and rebuild confidence in our customers. Staff weren’t happy but it worked.


I’m going to guess the real issue staff have is Mike Rutter’s approach to it, he’s probably been his usual heavy handed, clumsy and arrogant self.

Alicano

kevinandrew wrote: »

Mike Rutter’s management “style” is more suited to Ryanair, his communication skills are woeful and his air of superiority is sickening. Some of the internal communications with him at the helm are painful to watch or read, it feels like a headteacher scolding his naughty students. I was pleased to see IAG were wise enough not to give him the CEO role after Kavanaghs departure.

+1 His internal comms videos are cringe. He has zero people skills. Looks and sounds terrible. Gets the job done for the board though.

Jack1985

What a pi*s poor style of managnent. This does wonders good for the brand, company reputation and best of all floors company morale.

Label staff as thieves and expect any sort of willingness now to change work practices ? Did this guy catch his head on a door as of late?

If there are incidents of probable theft deal with the employees causing it, don’t label the majority of them as a thieves, I don’t see why hard working employees should be labelled in the same category. This company is demanding loyalty as of late, they are nothing short of a laughing stock.

faoiarvok

Surely if this problem is really into the millions of Euro, that’s indicative of a failure in management to address a problem that has been building for some time. How are shareholders and IAG supposed to respond when a CEO says millions have been stolen from the company on his watch?

Locker10a

What I can’t fathom is why he/they went to the media with this! Absolutely nobody looks good here, it’s very poor for brand image and by no means will it solve the issue. Unbelievable really

zell12

It's on the front page of the most popular Sunday newspaper
Seriously damaging - would you book a flight if airline admits your stuff may go missing?

kub

Needles73 wrote: »

Serious question. How should they resolve the issues with theft ? I don’t particularly like the way they’ve done it but surely cctv and extra security checks are required ?

Sorry I may not have made my point well, I feel the COO has made a terrible error here.
It would have been best just to implement extra security measures and perhaps a quite word to any union reps that may have had issues with it.


Now we have the entire staff of Aer Lingus being branded as thieves.

AndrewJRenko

Locker10a wrote: »

What I can’t fathom is why he/they went to the media with this! Absolutely nobody looks good here, it’s very poor for brand image and by no means will it solve the issue. Unbelievable really

He probably didn't go to the media himself, but just like the idiots running the snooty Ivy restaurant, he should certainly have known that it would leak to the press soon enough.

Fann Linn

Catch them and sack them so.

pablo128

Fann Linn wrote: »

Catch them and sack them so.

And how do you propose catching them without security or CCTV?

As it happens, I think a cash reward for info leading to a conviction would work. A lot of the employees surely are aware who is doing the robbing and would be only too happy to get rid of them.

Bussywussy

Lots of cabin crew being asked by pax today about the article...shameful stuff


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1358172/Amex-chief-accused-of-bullying-has-vanished.html

Fann Linn

pablo128 wrote: »

And how do you propose catching them without security or CCTV?

As it happens, I think a cash reward for info leading to a conviction would work. A lot of the employees surely are aware who is doing the robbing and would be only too happy to get rid of them.

So there's no proof of any stealing by Aer Lingus staff?

pablo128

Bussywussy wrote: »

Lots of cabin crew being asked by pax today about the article...shameful stuff


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1358172/Amex-chief-accused-of-bullying-has-vanished.html

That article is from 2001?

pablo128

Fann Linn wrote: »

So there's no proof of any stealing by Aer Lingus staff?

?? I don't get you.

Fann Linn

pablo128 wrote: »

?? I don't get you.

For the allegation to be made I assume he has proof.

pablo128

Fann Linn wrote: »

For the allegation to be made I assume he has proof.

Yeah there's millions worth of stock and passengers belongings going missing. To get actual proof, he needs the person/persons to be caught in the act. That means extra security guards, extra CCTV, or my suggestion of a reward for accurate info.

PeteF

Fann Linn wrote: »

For the allegation to be made I assume he has proof.

Think the whole point of installing CCTV is to get the proof.

Atlantic Dawn

Massive potential for drugs, arms and cash smuggling through the same network if this is going on.

pablo128

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Massive potential for drugs, arms and cash smuggling through the same network if this is going on.

Sure wasn't there a lad smuggling in foreigners on the sly. He only got nabbed a few months back.

Bussywussy

pablo128 wrote: »

That article is from 2001?

So

Irish Steve

It wasn't that long ago that convictions were secured relating to the smuggling of illegal immigrants off the ramp by a number of Aer Lingus staff. It's been a while since I worked on the ramp (different company), but when I was there, there was an active trade in smuggling large quantities of illegal cigarettes that was eventually detected, and resulted in a number of people, including a ramp manager, losing their jobs.

The way it was done meant that most of the people who were working in the areas affected didn't realise what was going on until the activity was detected and made public.

It used to be the case that getting things off the ramp was very easy,. I am assuming that things have changed, but clearly, if there is not an issue now, there was, and while CCTV can help with reducing losses from luggage, preventing losses from things like catering/duty free carts will be a LOT more complex, as monitoring them will be a much more complex thing to do.

The way this alleged activity is being managed would appear to leave a lot to be desired, but that's nothing new for the airport, there is a long history of anything that involves the ramp and unions being done in a confrontational way, as unfortunately both management and unions have demonstrated on many occasions over a long period of time that they are not serious about holding meaningful discussions and negotiations unless disruptive action has been taken by one side or the other. There is almost certainly another agenda in the background, and we will just have to wait and see how that is eventually revealed.

Tenger

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Massive potential for drugs, arms and cash smuggling through the same network if this is going on.

I get the impression that this ‘leak’ to the media is a mgmt tactic to get staff all riled up.

My reading of it is that it is implying that large quantities of stock is unaccounted for or that some staff are going into checked in bags. That’s the only way I can see passenger property getting nicked. In any large organization there will be a certain amount of wastage. It’s the nature of the beast. I can remember when I was there (15 years ago now) that there were quite a number of wasteful practices and attitudes. But after multiple restructurings I assume the place is a lot more locked down.

But the tone of this seems to be very aggressive. The article states that this was from an internal memo to staff (which presumably has been given to the Indo by the COO) For the COO to do this is certainly damaging to the brand and internal relations between staff and mgmt. Perhaps he is a bit miffed that the CEO spot is going to an IAG appointee next year?

Stovepipe

There are several back stories here; some senior people are leaving anyway (Kavanagh, Rutter) so sticking the knife in is of no consequence to them. Others are moving sideways (willingly or not) to other parts of IAG, so a clearout is happening. A new fleet with a rebranded image is coming in; say goodbye to "green" Aer Lingus, as you know it. Allegedly, there will be big news in January about ground ops. This coincides with what Willie Walsh said in the past about integrating EI into IAG; five years to get it sorted and the five years is nearly up; EI is one of the best parts of IAG, profit wise and productivity wise, for it's size, in IAG despite Rutter's claims to the contrary. The cabin crew were fit to be tied today and the articles were the talk of the airline today. It's going to be sporty tomorrow.As a destruction of employee goodwill, today's articles will be used as examples in university courses on how not to behave with staff.

Hotblack Desiato

Tenger wrote: »

or that some staff are going into checked in bags. That’s the only way I can see passenger property getting nicked.

It's a strange one. Airline staff don't touch bags once checked in at the desk, DAA do scanning and loading and handling so it can't be that. Bags checked at the door, how could anyone identify something worth stealing and steal it out in the open? The only thing I can think of that makes any sense is property left behind on the aircraft not being handed in. There's no real way to enforce accountability if it 'disappears' so I can imagine temptation getting the better of a few people. It's appalling to denigrate a large number of staff for the actions of what must be a tiny number, however.

L1011

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's a strange one. Airline staff don't touch bags once checked in at the desk, DAA do scanning and loading and handling so it can't be that..

DAA do not offer handling services. EI are their own ground handlers for mainline flights - for now. Expectation of a change to Menzies has been around for ages.

Hotblack Desiato

L1011 wrote: »

DAA do not offer handling services. EI are their own ground handlers for mainline flights - for now. Expectation of a change to Menzies has been around for ages.

Thanks for the correction. That must make that cohort of staff feel even more targeted though.

Mc Love

Was talking to some crew today and they said that there might be a chance some of the copies will somehow manage to fall off the plane. Crew were disgusted to be selling it on board.

Rutter himself doesn't have such a rosy history
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1358172/Amex-chief-accused-of-bullying-has-vanished.html

Jamie2k9

The leak has unions written all over it. I can see why management could be tempted but given its not the first leak in recent weeks and tensions with unions most recenly letters delivered to staff allegedly.

As for stealing, it happens no point in saying it doesn’t so yes they should do whatever is needed to stop it. I do think millions is a very vague figure and probably includes missing items at out stations. Given the anount of lost bags and long time to re-unite them with owners there could potentially be lots of opportunities to steel.

Management should have handled it much better but equally those responsible for leaking it are equally as bad.

This wont do as much PR damage as the immigration scandal did.

Tenger

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The leak has unions written all over it. I can see why management could be tempted but given its not the first leak in recent weeks and tensions with unions most recenly letters delivered to staff allegedly.
.............
.............
Management should have handled it much better but equally those responsible for leaking it are equally as bad......

I disagree. The tone is very much as if it was an interview with the COO. At no point does the article say that EI were asked to comment. Which is what normally happens when damaging info is leaked.
I feel that a union leak would be more along the lines of “EI chiefs accused staff of long running theft and pilferage”


As for this scenario appearing in 3rd level classes....a mate (who was ex-EI at the time) was in DBS doing a MSc in Business and HR in 2006 or 2007. One of the modules examined EI during the Willie Walsh as CEO years.
Module was titled ‘How to destroy a brand’

AmberGold

Bussywussy wrote: »

Lots of cabin crew being asked by pax today about the article...shameful stuff


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1358172/Amex-chief-accused-of-bullying-has-vanished.html

Hard to believe this individual is still clambering around the top echelon’s of the corporate world.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Tenger wrote: »

As for this scenario appearing in 3rd level classes....a mate (who was ex-EI at the time) was in DBS doing a MSc in Business and HR in 2006 or 2007. One of the modules examined EI during the Willie Walsh as CEO years.
Module was titled ‘How to destroy a brand’

There is not, and never has been, a module entitled "How to destroy a brand" as part of any program in DBS. There is not, and never has been, an MSc program entitled "Business and HR" in DBS.

Idbatterim

Total and utter scum bags. Aer Lingus should be planting stuff on planes and waiting for the scum to take it, then sack them !

Victor

Locker10a wrote: »

What I can’t fathom is why he/they went to the media with this!

It could as easily have been the unions or individual staff members.

Locker10a

Idbatterim wrote: »

Total and utter scum bags. Aer Lingus should be planting stuff on planes and waiting for the scum to take it, then sack them !

A previous airline I worked for had a similar issue, high value duty free was going missing. The airline suspected crew, an in-depth investigation unveiled it was the catering guys, who load the carts overnight, one of them had converted his garage into the a mini sort of Brown Thomas front hall with shelves of perfumes and cosmetics galore. He was operating a little black market store from his garage. Obviously he wasn’t the only one in on it. I can’t remember how they were caught but a few guys got prison for it.
Meanwhile at the same airline the cash from onboard sales was mysteriously disappearing. Again the finger was pointed at crew. CCTV over the safe where crew deposited the cash bags soon revealed the cleaners would come in at night, use the flexible pipe of the hoover to suction onto the plastic cash bags and fish them out !!! I’m sure EI will crack down on this and figure it out, but it was totally unnecessary to publish such an article

Locker10a

Victor wrote: »

It could as easily have been the unions or individual staff members.

It’s well known the Irish Independent and Aer Lingus have a cosy relationship. It’s often EI management use the independent to get across a certain story or headline

Stovepipe

First of all, how on earth would a union or an individual staff member get a front page of the leading Sunday newspaper, which is renowned for it's anti-union attitude, without going through the editor? A casual "leak" wouldn't get past the most junior sub-editor. This smells of a deliberate push from on high, to rubbish the union (especially the article on the front page of the business supplement), when things aren't going management's way.They wouldn't dare try this on with the pilots so it's easier to attack the ground ops people. You will also notice that this article came out after the busiest time of the year, the Summer schedule, has been dealt with. They wouldn't have dared to push something like this in June.

Stovepipe

Locker10a wrote: »

It’s well known the Irish Independent and Aer Lingus have a cosy relationship. It’s often EI management use the independent to get across a certain story or headline

The Indo, especially the daily edition, regards union bashing in Aer Lingus as normal jogging and they sell the rag on the aircraft, which suits both sides of the coin. This was stopped one time for about two months until the paper apologised to EI for some error it had made and normal service resumed. The company essentially disregards SIPTU unless it absolutely has no choice but to deal with them.

Stovepipe

Locker10a wrote: »

A previous airline I worked for had a similar issue, high value duty free was going missing. The airline suspected crew, an in-depth investigation unveiled it was the catering guys, who load the carts overnight, one of them had converted his garage into the a mini sort of Brown Thomas front hall with shelves of perfumes and cosmetics galore. He was operating a little black market store from his garage. Obviously he wasn’t the only one in on it. I can’t remember how they were caught but a few guys got prison for it.
Meanwhile at the same airline the cash from onboard sales was mysteriously disappearing. Again the finger was pointed at crew. CCTV over the safe where crew deposited the cash bags soon revealed the cleaners would come in at night, use the flexible pipe of the hoover to suction onto the plastic cash bags and fish them out !!! I’m sure EI will crack down on this and figure it out, but it was totally unnecessary to publish such an article

The hoover theft was also being done on the DAA charity boxes, sucking up notes.

Stovepipe

another point: EI recently changed over from a Lost property office to a third party system where you now have to pay to get your lost property back. It was common for ground staff to find things like laptops, phones, passports, ID cards and a host of other things left behind on the aircraft and they would bring them to LP and log them in and if they were not claimed, the staff member would be notified and could keep the stuff. Some unscrupulous types stole the found items from the aircraft but they were often caught, especially one genius who switched on a laptop and was traced by it's owner looking at the thief via the webcam. What has happened now is that the goodwill generated by EI staff making the effort to get stuff up to LP to get it back to the owner has now evaporated and staff don't make the effort to bring the lost stuff up any more. The redcaps (load supervisors) will bring the stuff up, if they have time, but that's not always the case. That's what happens when you keep accusing the frontline staff of being thieves.

Glen Immal

Was in an employees house once and was served tea from a rather elegant Aer Lingus teapot!

Jamie2k9

Stovepipe wrote: »

First of all, how on earth would a union or an individual staff member get a front page of the leading Sunday newspaper, which is renowned for it's anti-union attitude, without going through the editor? A casual "leak" wouldn't get past the most junior sub-editor. This smells of a deliberate push from on high, to rubbish the union (especially the article on the front page of the business supplement), when things aren't going management's way.They wouldn't dare try this on with the pilots so it's easier to attack the ground ops people. You will also notice that this article came out after the busiest time of the year, the Summer schedule, has been dealt with. They wouldn't have dared to push something like this in June.

Front pages are based on what stories sell, the headline along on this article is very click bate. There hasn't been any significant news stories this week.

orionm_73

Glen Immal wrote: »

Was in an employees house once and was served tea from a rather elegant Aer Lingus teapot!

Did EI ever have elegant tea pots? Can only remember plain stainless steel ones.

markpb

Am I the only one thinking the reason AL went to the press about this was to head off the inevitable complaints that will come from the unions about the security cameras in staff areas. Now everyone knows the reason so, if the unions object, they’re protecting the thieves. If this story hadn’t come out first, we’d get a press cycle driven by the unions about how the new security regime is oppressing their members.

Bussywussy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There hasn't been any significant news stories this week.

Are you on drugs????

I'll name 1...highest ever number of hospital overcrowding figures for November

Jamie2k9

Bussywussy wrote: »

Are you on drugs????

I'll name 1...highest ever number of hospital overcrowding figures for November

Yeah as I said not major news!

Its an eye catching headline so good for front page.

Colonel Claptrap

Tenger wrote: »

As for this scenario appearing in 3rd level classes....a mate (who was ex-EI at the time) was in DBS doing a MSc in Business and HR in 2006 or 2007. One of the modules examined EI during the Willie Walsh as CEO years.
Module was titled ‘How to destroy a brand’

Come on, you made this up.