Pistol shooting on the cheap? Dublin based

BattleCorp

ZiabR wrote: »

Pistol licences are difficult to get at the moment.

Not trying to be awkward but where are you getting the idea that pistol licences are difficult to get at the moment?

They are no more difficult to licence than any other firearm.

Once you have your legitimate reason (target shooting), you can prove you are a member of a range that caters for pistols and that you are someone the Gardaí wouldn't view as being a danger to the public, then it's no different than licencing any other firearm.

jb88

rugerfanatic wrote: »

JB88,GRPAI who from prev discussions only organise shooting comps now on FCP and are members of SC. I wonder if ye'll push for mandatory comp participation rather than a range membership with attendence being the valid reason for continuation of licencing?

Too much wrong with that statement above.

I will push for nothing, I represent myself and no one else.

Personally I dont believe you should have any pistol licence unless you are competing, whats the requirement for it otherwise? Perhaps you can enlighten me?

jb88

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

"Target shooting" does not equate "Participating actively in competitions to fulfil license conditions".
It means exactly what it says.

If you go up and shoot a box of shells at a bit of paper,once or twice a year or a clay pigeon,or whatever alt targets your range allows, you have fulfilled your part of the conditions of the license to the letter.IF you put a generic "target shooting" reason.

It is an assumption on the insurer's part that target shooting means you are shooting competitions.

The assumption is correct until the Gardai ask when you are renewing your pistol licence, they asked me can you prove that you used your pistol for target shooting and producing records of competitions entered was required in my case on a number of occassions.

When the clampdown comes as it has in the past, range attendance and shooting at a few targets with your pistol wont cut it.

The Gardai ask for proof, on printed paper and competitions entered be it club or at a national level are what is required to secure your continued enjoyment.

CLAY Shooting is not Pistol shooting which is what this current discussion is about

rugerfanatic

jb88 wrote: »

Too much wrong with that statement above.

I will push for nothing, I represent myself and no one else.

Personally I dont believe you should have any pistol licence unless you are competing, whats the requirement for it otherwise? Perhaps you can enlighten me?

There is 2 facts and one question.

I didn't ask what you'd push for. I asked what GPRAI might push for.

You got asked for proof of conpetitions. Or did you offer same?

You believe no comps no licence. Legislations says "good reason". Range membership is a good reason. Anthing more just leaves it open ended as to what"s acceptable. As said above if I compete Gardai could say internatiinal level is only acceptable level.

Associations such as GRPAI want everyone competing. More dosh in their kitty.

In 2008 the Gardai tried to use the comp entry condition and the then FCP got that stopped. Seems all that good work may soon be undone.

Think about it this way. The lads with pistols and not competing don't for a lot of reasons BUT they pay range memberships. Without their membership money will you have a range?

BattleCorp

rugerfanatic wrote: »

In 2008 the Gardai tried to use the comp entry condition and the then FCP got that stopped. Seems all that good work may soon be undone.

Why?

Are the authorities or some organisation campaigning to have 'target shooting' replaced with 'competition target shooting' as your reason for needing a firearm?

1874

Could be that some clubs might look at things with a suspicious eye, if a new person turns up, wants to shoot the bare minimum, its pistol and they express an interest in this solely, have not participated in other shooting and are not known to the club or anyone in it, regardless of whats allowed, a club, and Ive heard it said Gardai will view that a certain way if thats your first application.

rugerfanatic

BattleCorp wrote: »

Why?

Are the authorities or some organisation campaigning to have 'target shooting' replaced with 'competition target shooting' as your reason for needing a firearm?

I'm not on FCP or privy to anything it discusses behind closed doors. As we all know shooting groups on FCP often decide what"s best for our sport often without the blessing or knowledge of those they claim to represent as it suits "someones" money making scam!

Grizzly 45

jb88 wrote: »

The assumption is correct until the Gardai ask when you are renewing your pistol licence, they asked me can you prove that you used your pistol for target shooting and producing records of competitions entered was required in my case on a number of occassions.

When the clampdown comes as it has in the past, range attendance and shooting at a few targets with your pistol wont cut it.

The Gardai ask for proof, on printed paper and competitions entered be it club or at a national level are what is required to secure your continued enjoyment.

CLAY Shooting is not Pistol shooting which is what this current discussion is about

That's because you didn't stand up for yourself and told them that the only REQUIREMENT under law is to prove you are a member of an authorised range and that you ATTEND it[not specified in law either how many times a year THERE IS NOTHING IN THE LAW!! that says you must shoot competitions. There is an assumption on your and their parts that target shooting equals competitions. There is no definition either of what a "competition" is.i can compete against myself in shooting,by either having a higher or lower score within a half hour.

So when this clampdown comes,if ever.You , me and everyone else will be back in court challenging them, and winning on them exceeding their authority under the law. As the act is silent on the point of competitions.So the act will require reworking and Dail time, and civil servants missing their tea breaks having to rewrite legislation...Do you think that's likely??

[Deep inhale] People! I'll say this again, again and again.YOU as a shooter have to be on par and up to them on the law relating to firearms.You have to know what they can ask for legally and what you must provide, and where they are over the line in the legislation, and be prepared to step on their coppers boots to tell them politely to get back. This is a clear case of it. Yes they can certainly ask for range attendance no problem and welcome to it. Your scores and what you shot...Feck off!! What next? You didn't score well enough and haven't won anything??? Sorry unless I woke up again in the German Democratic Republic....Not going to happen.

1874

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

That's because you didn't stand up for yourself and told them that the only REQUIREMENT under law is to prove you are a member of an authorised range and that you ATTEND it[not specified in law either how many times a year THERE IS NOTHING IN THE LAW!! that says you must shoot competitions. There is an assumption on your and their parts that target shooting equals competitions. There is no definition either of what a "competition" is.i can compete against myself in shooting,by either having a higher or lower score within a half hour.

So when this clampdown comes,if ever.You , me and everyone else will be back in court challenging them, and winning on them exceeding their authority under the law. As the act is silent on the point of competitions.So the act will require reworking and Dail time, and civil servants missing their tea breaks having to rewrite legislation...Do you think that's likely??

[Deep inhale] People! I'll say this again, again and again.YOU as a shooter have to be on par and up to them on the law relating to firearms.You have to know what they can ask for legally and what you must provide, and where they are over the line in the legislation, and be prepared to step on their coppers boots to tell them politely to get back. This is a clear case of it. Yes they can certainly ask for range attendance no problem and welcome to it. Your scores and what you shot...Feck off!! What next? You didn't score well enough and haven't won anything??? Sorry unless I woke up again in the German Democratic Republic....Not going to happen.

What is/are the law/laws? be no harm to brush up on them.
I used to brush up on the Tenancy Act, along the way I realised they can tweak and change things as suits them, in practice, a lot that goes on there in practice isn't even covered in the act (ie like councils imposing their own standards not covered in the act).

solarwinds

Jaysus you know there was a time in this country when shooting was an enjoyable past time and thats not a rose tinted view.
But now with all the made up laws, some of our own crowd doing us in the back and giving these hair brained schemes to the gaurds in the first place to impose on us.
Shooting is getting to be a bit too much like work, only worse now when you have people who are only too happy to comply with every not legal request and requirement rather than challenge for fear of rocking the boat and losing what I have. All this serves to do is to give weight to these requests so they can be imposed on us all.
I dont enter competitions now, but in the future that may change I dont know, but I would like the option available to me.

1874

solarwinds wrote: »

Jaysus you know there was a time in this country when shooting was an enjoyable past time and thats not a rose tinted view.
But now with all the made up laws, some of our own crowd doing us in the back and giving these hair brained schemes to the gaurds in the first place to impose on us.
Shooting is getting to be a bit too much like work, only worse now when you have people who are only too happy to comply with every not legal request and requirement rather than challenge for fear of rocking the boat and losing what I have. All this serves to do is to give weight to these requests so they can be imposed on us all.
I dont enter competitions now, but in the future that may change I dont know, but I would like the option available to me.

Thats why Id like the to know more about shooting than shooting, specifically deferring to anyones knowledge here to find out what are the relevant laws so I can look them up and know what the law says are the limits, rather than take any individual (person in some position of authority) word for things.
Id also like to know more about whats going on in the shooting community, but I never really did know and even from reading here I lost track of who was doing what to who and the reasons it was speculated why. SC?

NASRPC

To answer the Ops original question

There is no such thing as "pistol shooting on the cheap" - it's pretty much the same for everyone.

Most clubs have

• A Joining fee (so all members contribute the same investment)
• A Membership fee (Varies - but not a huge difference from club to club)
• An Attendance fee (not sure if anyone still does this - most have just built it into the membership fee)

If it is a sport you want to take up - or want to find out if it is a sport you want to take up - then see what clubs are near you - arrange to go visit them and talk to them and see what they have to offer you.

---

As for the secondary discussion on licensing.

Pistols are different - they can only be licensed for Target Shooting - so you must be a member of a Target Shooting Club - before you apply for a license.

Shotguns and Rifles can be licensed for Vermin Control, Hunting and/or Target Shooting - so may or may not require membership of a club, depending on what you wanted the license for.

It is not required, by law, that people take part in competitions - for any firearms license or any shooting sport.

The vast majority of people who hold a license - for shotgun, rifle or pistol - do not compete.

People need to learn to be safe on a range and learn how to shoot.
When they get their own license - they need to learn to shoot and maintain that firearm

In essence they get their license to practice.

---

In the fullness of time - some of them may develop the confidence to - or the curiosity to - take part in a club match.

If they like it there are loads of competitive opportunities in club, inter-club, national & International competition - here in Ireland. (No shortage of people to help them if they ask how)

But for many - they are not competitive - they are quite happy to continue to practice when it suits them.

Remember they are still competing - just against themselves.

NASRPC

Grizzly 45

1874 wrote: »

What is/are the law/laws? be no harm to brush up on them.
I used to brush up on the Tenancy Act, along the way I realised they can tweak and change things as suits them, in practice, a lot that goes on there in practice isn't even covered in the act (ie like councils imposing their own standards not covered in the act).

Ok, this will be a post that will be added to, as our laws are all over the shop on this one.Even in the Road traffic act ASFIK.
So here goes. From the foundation of the state to present day

1924 Firearms temporary provisions act [rescinded]
1925 Firearms temporary, continuous act [rescinded]
1925 Firearms act
1964 Firearms act
1964[?] Firearms proof act I]Never implimented[/I
1971 Firearms act [with Temporary custody order in 1972]
1990 Firearms and offensive weapons act[Silencers,nite vision,lasers,certain types of knives]
1993 EU Acquisition of weapons and ammo regulations
1998 Firearms[tempoary provisions] act
2000 Firearms cert to non-residents act
2006 Criminal Justice act.
2017 EU regulations amending Council Directive 91/477/EEC on control of the acquisition and possession of weapons

Hunting
Wildlife act 1976/2004[?]

Reloading and Ammo
Explosive act 1875[?]
Manufacturing of explosive and munitions act 2000*


*Proably not the correct title, however there is a specific act dealing with manufacturing ammo on a commercial level, which is applied to home reloading.

Scalachi

@Rufgerfanatic - Can I please clarify a few points for you

JB88 is not a part of the GRPAI and does not comment on behalf of the GRPAI, his opinions and views are his own.

The GRPAI are NOT part of the Sports Coalition, and I expect will NEVER be

The GRPAI have been invited to participate on the FCP, and will gladly do so.

The GRPAI will NOT be pushing for mandatory competitions any any level, we known that the vast majority of most club members have no interest in target shooting, but we do organise and facilitate target shooting competitions, at club, national and international level, but as we are a not for profit organisation, we don't really push the money end of it that much and certainly will never try to make it mandatory.

rugerfanatic

Sorry. My mistake. Mixed ye up with nasrpc.

Thanks for clarification.

Motorfuel

Scalachi wrote: »

@Rufgerfanatic - Can I please clarify a few points for you

JB88 is not a part of the GRPAI and does not comment on behalf of the GRPAI, his opinions and views are his own.

The GRPAI are NOT part of the Sports Coalition, and I expect will NEVER be

The GRPAI have been invited to participate on the FCP, and will gladly do so.

The GRPAI will NOT be pushing for mandatory competitions any any level, we known that the vast majority of most club members have no interest in target shooting, but we do organise and facilitate target shooting competitions, at club, national and international level, but as we are a not for profit organisation, we don't really push the money end of it that much and certainly will never try to make it mandatory.

What does the FCP do now? How often do they meet? What powers do they have? Who is represented on the FCP? What is their goal/purpous?

Also, who is pushing for mandatory payment for competiing?

Zxthinger

For a simple OP it's turned into a mess..
To be honest some of the posters, (their-comments) are the type that might put a fellow off pistol shooting..
I'm not going to name any names but I'd be stupid to allow such posts upset me or taint my views of the other chaps Who partake in this PAST-TIME..

Motorfuel

Sorry to buck the trend, I only have good things to say about shooting in Ireland right now. There is a great atmosphere in clubs across the country. Lots of competitions if that’s your thing and Ireland are current Gallery Rifle World Champions. If you can show you have a legitimate reason to have a rifle or pistol the Guards provide the license. That system protects us all from someone getting a license for the wrong reason and spoiling it for the rest of us. People that shoot in Ireland should stick together to protect and grow our sport. We should show the public we are together, sensible and descent people. Personally I am enjoying shooting game now and lots of target shooting starting again in January.

NASRPC

For any of you that would like to

• try your hand at target shooting,
• learn how to compete in some of our sports,
• actually compete in some of our sports
• or maybe even represent your country

NASRPC and its member clubs have plenty of opportunities to do so throughout the year

Some highlights can be found in this post on the Target Shooting Forum "Coming up in 2019"

We hope it helps.

NASRPC

tac foley

Motorfuel wrote: »

Sorry to buck the trend, I only have good things to say about shooting in Ireland right now. There is a great atmosphere in clubs across the country. Lots of competitions if that’s your thing and Ireland are current Gallery Rifle World Champions. If you can show you have a legitimate reason to have a rifle or pistol the Guards provide the license. That system protects us all from someone getting a license for the wrong reason and spoiling it for the rest of us. People that shoot in Ireland should stick together to protect and grow our sport. We should show the public we are together, sensible and descent people. Personally I am enjoying shooting game now and lots of target shooting starting again in January.

Living in a country where the GB national squad pistol shooters have their handguns delivered to them by a police-escorted security van on the ONE range where they are permitted to shoot them in total privacy, I can only express my jealousy that not only can you still HAVE a .22 handgun in Ireland, but that the sport appears to be flourishing.

Motorfuel

tac foley wrote: »

Living in a country where the GB national squad pistol shooters have their handguns delivered to them by a police-escorted security van on the ONE range where they are permitted to shoot them in total privacy, I can only express my jealousy that not only can you still HAVE a .22 handgun in Ireland, but that the sport appears to be flourishing.

Yes, it is a great pity, especially as the ban on pistols coincided with a substantial increase in gun crime in the UK. Proof that taking pistols from law abiding, sensible people has no link to a criminal buying an illegal pistol imported in some drugs shipment.

Target Pistol shooting is on the increase in Ireland with 20+ clubs in the NASRPC. Lots of competitions and training available.

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

Living in a country where the GB national squad pistol shooters have their handguns delivered to them by a police-escorted security van on the ONE range where they are permitted to shoot them in total privacy, I can only express my jealousy that not only can you still HAVE a .22 handgun in Ireland, but that the sport appears to be flourishing.

Just thinking, without any malice or political POV.But wouldn't it be ironic,and a great boost to UK/IRL relations, shooting and political if the UK pistol teams came and practised at one of our ranges?:p No need for the UK taxpayer to fork out for armed convoys,when they can store their deadly multishot armoured helicopter taking down 500,000 rounds a SECOND .22 pistols in Ireland in perfect saftey at a club range?:p

solarwinds

Makes sense were some of our teams not travelling to the Isle of Man for years practising.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Just thinking, without any malice or political POV.But wouldn't it be ironic,and a great boost to UK/IRL relations, shooting and political if the UK pistol teams came and practised at one of our ranges?:p No need for the UK taxpayer to fork out for armed convoys,when they can store their deadly multishot armoured helicopter taking down 500,000 rounds a SECOND .22 pistols in Ireland in perfect saftey at a club range?:p

Grizzly, I've already mentioned this, AND shooting in Northern Ireland, too, instead of the previous set-up, which involved them going to Switzerland to train. Not once, but many times.

I've been ignored.

But then, I'm ugly, and now I've had my face re-arranged, even uglier - that's the only reason I can think of to have been ignored. To me it always made perfect sense to go to your nearest friendly neighbour, who also speaks English.

This video, with the buffoon Charlie Worthitte-Snodgrass [I may have gotten his name wrong], was from two years ago. Quite frankly, it makes me puke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nfhy_C95Eo

Grizzly 45

No worries on the beauty side of things Tac. Ugly looking English and Irish men have always been ignored.Until it's too late.:D:D:D

tac foley

Being only 1/8th English makes me think I've got more 'ug' than I deserve....

jb88

rugerfanatic wrote: »

There is 2 facts and one question.

I didn't ask what you'd push for. I asked what GPRAI might push for.

You got asked for proof of conpetitions. Or did you offer same?

You believe no comps no licence. Legislations says "good reason". Range membership is a good reason. Anthing more just leaves it open ended as to what"s acceptable. As said above if I compete Gardai could say internatiinal level is only acceptable level.

Associations such as GRPAI want everyone competing. More dosh in their kitty.

In 2008 the Gardai tried to use the comp entry condition and the then FCP got that stopped. Seems all that good work may soon be undone.

Think about it this way. The lads with pistols and not competing don't for a lot of reasons BUT they pay range memberships. Without their membership money will you have a range?

How would I know what the GRPAI would push for no more than I would know what the NASRPC push for, I represent myself not any organisation.

If you dont compete be it at club level, natiional or international, then why have a pistol?

GolfVI

jb88 wrote: »

If you dont compete be it at club level, natiional or international, then why have a pistol?

Because shooting is a hobby and is fun.. Cant see why anyone should be forced to compete in competions for their licence if they use their range membership.

jb88

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

That's because you didn't stand up for yourself and told them that the only REQUIREMENT under law is to prove you are a member of an authorised range and that you ATTEND it[not specified in law either how many times a year THERE IS NOTHING IN THE LAW!! that says you must shoot competitions. There is an assumption on your and their parts that target shooting equals competitions. There is no definition either of what a "competition" is.i can compete against myself in shooting,by either having a higher or lower score within a half hour.

So when this clampdown comes,if ever.You , me and everyone else will be back in court challenging them, and winning on them exceeding their authority under the law. As the act is silent on the point of competitions.So the act will require reworking and Dail time, and civil servants missing their tea breaks having to rewrite legislation...Do you think that's likely??

[Deep inhale] People! I'll say this again, again and again.YOU as a shooter have to be on par and up to them on the law relating to firearms.You have to know what they can ask for legally and what you must provide, and where they are over the line in the legislation, and be prepared to step on their coppers boots to tell them politely to get back. This is a clear case of it. Yes they can certainly ask for range attendance no problem and welcome to it. Your scores and what you shot...Feck off!! What next? You didn't score well enough and haven't won anything??? Sorry unless I woke up again in the German Democratic Republic....Not going to happen.

Its participation im after, range attendance is a joke, lads just turning up to say they were there. Swiping fobs and walking off.

Its about practice and entrance into competitions and testing yourself against others thats what sports are about, only by competition can you test yourself against others. Its not the results which are important, its that you learn and improve.
General plinking and even competition practice will only get you so far.

Legally this and legally that, yes do whatever is within the law, but as a Superintendant once said to me when applying for firearms, "Paper never refuses ink", and if you have results from competitions and entry then it proves that you are committed to your sport.

Otherwise keep dreaming

*************Public DISCLAIMER**************
I represent no organisation in any form, I have to date never been a committee member of any shooting organisation, so any reference to this is incorrect.
******************************************

Captainaxiom

jb88 wrote: »

Its participation im after, range attendance is a joke, lads just turning up to say they were there. Swiping fobs and walking off.

Its about practice and entrance into competitions and testing yourself against others thats what sports are about, only by competition can you test yourself against others. Its not the results which are important, its that you learn and improve.
General plinking and even competition practice will only get you so far.

Legally this and legally that, yes do whatever is within the law, but as a Superintendant once said to me when applying for firearms, "Paper never refuses ink", and if you have results from competitions and entry then it proves that you are committed to your sport.

Otherwise keep dreaming

*************Public DISCLAIMER**************
I represent no organisation in any form, I have to date never been a committee member of any shooting organisation, so any reference to this is incorrect.
******************************************

I don’t know you from Adam but it’s arrogance like this that annoys me when i do go to the range. There’s always a tool that feels the need to tell people how to enjoy their sport and better yet that what their doing is wrong and they should do it their way. These same “people” I continuously out shoot when I do choose to compete (I’m not claiming to be the greatest shooter either). These guys are also generally the ones that have spent a small fortune on all the latest bells and whistles and look down their nose at anyone who doesn’t.
I’ve competed across the country and have encountered one at nearly every range.