Being cast aside by friends?

diusmr8a504cvk

Here's the situation: I'm 20, in my second year of college and am commuting this year (~50KM each way) having stayed in accomodation last year.
Of my two better friends, one stays at home (seconds from the college) and the other stays in Digs. We'll refer to these as A and B respectively for the craic.

As of late, I feel like I'm being cast aside. Last week, A messaged B asking him to come out that night. Had I not been beside B when he received the message I'd have been none the wiser. I called my friend out on it, said it wasn't really on just assuming that I wasn't available and going ahead without me and he apologized after I pretty much told him he was wrong. B agreed with me fully.

Fast forward and I'm sat here at home tonight and I see the two guys out together without a word being said to me and no attempt to even hide it. I had messaged B a few hours prior asking if he wanted me to pick him up earlier than usual in the morning to get coffee. He replied "I'll see" at 8PM, at which point he was probably ready to go out and was thinking about the burden of getting up early in the morning. Still didn't say a word.

Last year I was the only one with a place that allowed for a meet up before going out. I feel that maybe now that I don't have it that I'm not as valuable (to A moreso than anymore. Even during the Summer, A mentioned a lot how we'd have no place to pre-drink for the forthcoming year. He has since befriended someone who does have accomodation, could merely be a coincidence but he's gone out with that lad a lot more often since. If I want to go out this year I've to arrange a place to crash but it's a thing I get done in the click of my fingers, not a big deal, but I feel it's being used as an excuse to not bother to invite me.

It's frustrating, a real slap in the face being excluded. I've no problem with people doing stuff without me, just not saying a word is harsh.
They expect me to go out Thursday but I half want to tell them to shove it up their holes.

Am I being childish? Thanks for reading.

Big Bag of Chips

I think it's reasonable for them to arrange to meet up during the week without you. Yes, it might be nice to be asked, but I'm not sure it's done out of badness. Due to circumstances they see more of each other than you.

If you'd like to go out with them midweek, why don't you organise it? Do you want to go out on Thursday night? If so, not going out isn't going to achieve anything. It's unlikely to 'teach them a lesson'. The only person who will be affected by that will be you.

leggo

I remember stuff like that going on at that stage. It's usually done because of stupid reasons like "X isn't good on the pull" or "He cried one time on a night out and it got weird" or, yeah, they're just dicks who were using you because you had a handy pre-drinking spot and they don't like you that much.

Try not to take it personally. College is a weird life stage where people mature at different paces. This is totally stupid and avoidable, and the fact that you see it for how childish it is perhaps an indication you're growing up quicker than them. It kinda sucks because at college these people are the ones you lean on and any hiccup can totally derail your experience in the short-term, but the good news is that there are also other people who feel like you also in your college and societies etc to find them.

Try not to get too attached to any individuals or groups else you run the risk of feelings being hurt like this and instead use this as an opportunity to broaden your friend base as wide as possible. Whoever you're left talking to at the end of your time there will be a friend for life, and you won't care about the ones you're not. It can be difficult and intimidating to do so it's easier to lean on the 'core' group, but then you're open to this happening, and if you can push yourself and pick up the skill of making more friends easily here then it's one that will stick with you for life!

Xterminator

Hi Op

I think the term friends means different things to different people. IE what is expected of each other etc.

But is it unreasonable for them to have meet ups without inviting you on occasion? that's for you to answer.

I myself would think it is usually okay for 2 other friends to meet up without inviting me, especially if we already planned to meet up later in the week, as you have indicated. I would say that you are viewing it in a very negative light, IE your being excluded ... when in fact your just not included. There does not appear to be an malice or bad feelings here, but perhaps A & B have a tighter bond, and you are a little envious of that.

.......

I think its a bit controllery of you to expect to be kept up to date with two other peoples social meet ups etc..

A and B are entitled to meet up whenever they want without having to clear it with you first.

If you "called me out" on messaging someone to see if they wanted to go out Id tell you where to go. Its that kind of behaviour that will cause people to exclude you more than anything else. Having a tantrum and telling someone they are "in the wrong" for not running it by you first? Can you see how you would come across doing that?

woodchuck

If I want to go out this year I've to arrange a place to crash but it's a thing I get done in the click of my fingers, not a big deal, but I feel it's being used as an excuse to not bother to invite me.

Is there any chance if they ask you to go out that they feel they have to offer to put you up for the night?

Katgurl

Really the more you push with friends the more you push them away.

I remember being that age and four of us were very close. Two pairs of besties as it were forming a foursome. One of the girls from the other pair fell out with us and that left her partner (I know the way I'm describing it is stupid but don't know how else to) on her own. We still went out the three of us all the time but she would get annoyed if she heard myself and bestie had met up without her; having a night in or whatever saying she should have been included. To be honest it used make us feel stressed and resentful; we should have been able to meet up alone if we wanted!

A year or two later myself and bestie were no longer living together and she moved in with an old school friend. This girl worked in PR, was trying to get onto tv (which she did) and generally pursued a very glamorous life. My pal was often doing stuff without me. I felt so left out! But luckily we were all a bit older and I could see its natural for friendships to change and evolve.

I made a point of expanding my own circle and interests so I wasn't so reliant on one or two people. After all, I had my own stuff going on. Different years and circumstances mean spending time proportionally with different people and if the friendships are good ones they will survive.

In short, be someone other people want to spend time with not someone people think they should.

Purple Mountain

Maybe because you are commuting they think that's an issue for you getting home after a night out?
It's not like you can get a taxi or walk home now.

santana75

Its a crap feeling Op. No matter how "Mature" or rational you're supposed to be about these things, it still stings. Maybe in an ideal world you'd be cool with it but in reality its not nice. The only thing you can do is to not take personally and to not start thinking of all the reasons why you weren't invited. You'll tie yourself in knots and still be none the wiser. Giving out to them is not the answer either. Unfortunately you have zero control over what other people do or who they chose to spend their time with. All you can do is decide what you consider friendship to be. Obviously loyalty is very important to you, otherwise this wouldnt have stung so much. Be mindful though as to how you treat other people. Are you a loyal friend? Be brutally honest with yourself.

diusmr8a504cvk

Xterminator wrote: »

But is it unreasonable for them to have meet ups without inviting you on occasion? that's for you to answer.

I myself would think it is usually okay for 2 other friends to meet up without inviting me, especially if we already planned to meet up later in the week, as you have indicated. I would say that you are viewing it in a very negative light, IE your being excluded ... when in fact your just not included. There does not appear to be an malice or bad feelings here, but perhaps A & B have a tighter bond, and you are a little envious of that.

Nah its not unreasonable, but it seems like a total slap in the face at times when you seem both on social media and you're sat at home
To be honest it's probably the opposite. B and I do 2/3 of the same subjects, I do 1 with A. B and A do none together if there's something to be taken from that.

....... wrote: »

I think its a bit controllery of you to expect to be kept up to date with two other peoples social meet ups etc..

A and B are entitled to meet up whenever they want without having to clear it with you first.

If you "called me out" on messaging someone to see if they wanted to go out Id tell you where to go. Its that kind of behaviour that will cause people to exclude you more than anything else. Having a tantrum and telling someone they are "in the wrong" for not running it by you first? Can you see how you would come across doing that?

I said it to A after he sent the text, something to the effect of 'Cheers for the text' and he clasped at straws and said 'Oh, I just assumed you'd be working'. It was weak enough I felt. He messaged me a while later and I basically told him that it takes as much effort to send one message to B as it does to the group chat containing all of us and he said I was right and apologised.

woodchuck wrote: »

Is there any chance if they ask you to go out that they feel they have to offer to put you up for the night?

Nah, one stays in digs and the other at home so both of there's would be non-runners.

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Maybe because you are commuting they think that's an issue for you getting home after a night out?
It's not like you can get a taxi or walk home now.

It's no problem, I've never been short of a place to crash.

santana75 wrote: »

Its a crap feeling Op. No matter how "Mature" or rational you're supposed to be about these things, it still stings. Maybe in an ideal world you'd be cool with it but in reality its not nice. The only thing you can do is to not take personally and to not start thinking of all the reasons why you weren't invited. You'll tie yourself in knots and still be none the wiser. Giving out to them is not the answer either. Unfortunately you have zero control over what other people do or who they chose to spend their time with. All you can do is decide what you consider friendship to be. Obviously loyalty is very important to you, otherwise this wouldnt have stung so much. Be mindful though as to how you treat other people. Are you a loyal friend? Be brutally honest with yourself.

Yeah to be honest I am a loyal friend, only issue I've ever found with the vast majority of my friends though is that when the chips are down for them I'm there but generally not the other way around.

December2012

Do you want to be told you were right? Or do you want to go out. more with your friends?

Firstly just you have to accept that your two friends are allowed to do things without you, and it doesn't matter how many classes you have together. Friendship is not a transaction.

Secondly, I think you're hurt and you're just trying to figure it out, so there may have been a reason that they didn't ask you out. And that reason may have been that they thought you were working. Or maybe they want to have a private chat, or go on the pull (or not go on the pull), or go to a pub you don't like, or take drugs that you don't take, or not take drugs and you do... or there could be no reason at all and you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Be more friendly ,be more easy going, invite them out, initiate fun.

Nobody wants to be compelled to invite anybody out.

diusmr8a504cvk

To be honest I'd rather just be to myself at this stage and let them have at it for now, not in a spiteful way but just out of not really caring at the moment. I'll probably sit out Thursday. I've enough on my plate and to be honest I don't even know what to think anymore.

Purple Mountain

I'm reading between the lines here and don't mean any offence so please don't take any.
If you say you have enough on your plate, I'm guessing you might have some heavy or serious stuff going on in your life at the minute.
Some people aren't cut out to handle stuff like that and avoid at all costs.
That's just life unfortunately.

leggo

OP I’d be careful about isolating yourself too much. Fair enough if you’ve stuff going on and don’t want to go out Thursday, one night is nothing. But if you start missing nights regularly then these incidents will just become the norm and you’ll be miserable. Are there any societies or anything you can join there?

diusmr8a504cvk

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I'm reading between the lines here and don't mean any offence so please don't take any.
If you say you have enough on your plate, I'm guessing you might have some heavy or serious stuff going on in your life at the minute.
Some people aren't cut out to handle stuff like that and avoid at all costs.
That's just life unfortunately.

I meant in the sense that I'm busy but I do get what you're saying.

leggo wrote: »

OP I’d be careful about isolating yourself too much. Fair enough if you’ve stuff going on and don’t want to go out Thursday, one night is nothing. But if you start missing nights regularly then these incidents will just become the norm and you’ll be miserable. Are there any societies or anything you can join there?

Yeah I get you, and to be honest I recognise the fact that not going out Thursday will give them more excuse to not have to ask me out in the future but whatever.
I still have other friends, gave the Football a chance but the gaffer was a clown and I was part of a radio society last year just never got back into it this year.

.......

Its sounds to me like A only apologised to keep the peace, because you were behaving like he had done something wrong. And not because he felt he was in the wrong.

I say that because of what followed, ie, the two of them out without you and nary a word said.

People dont like friendship rules forced on them. You telling them off for not inviting you only comes off badly for you.

It is interesting that you say that you find that you are there for people and they are not there for you. It sounds to me like you might have an unrealistic expectation of friendship.

And now that you are deciding to stay away from them, may come off like you are having a wuss about it - which wont help you in the long run either.

I know its not very nice to hear but from what you have posted so far I wonder if you are a bit to "clingy" or "heavy" with friends?

santana75

Aubrielle Icy Babble wrote: »

Yeah to be honest I am a loyal friend, only issue I've ever found with the vast majority of my friends though is that when the chips are down for them I'm there but generally not the other way around.

Well there you have your answer. Real friendship is when your mates have your back especially when you're going through a bad patch. If they dont theyre just acquaintances.

....... wrote: »

It is interesting that you say that you find that you are there for people and they are not there for you. It sounds to me like you might have an unrealistic expectation of friendship.

Expecting your friends to be there for you is not unrealistic, its the very definition of real friendship.

December2012

Look it could be an age thing, but you can have great friendships without 'being there for each other.

Whatever happened to fun and easy going craic? It's not all intense, particularly when you're in college.

Friendship is not transactional

.......

santana75 wrote: »

Expecting your friends to be there for you is not unrealistic, its the very definition of real friendship.

Most people have one or two REAL friends in their life. The rest are a variety of good pals, acquaintances, people you have a bit of craic with.

However, we refer to them all as friends. And it would be totally unrealistic to expect all of these people that you have varying degrees of closeness with to "have your back".

Im not sure I really believe in the whole "have your back" notion at all outside of being a teenager, because as people get older they get different priorities and families and they will be more likely to do what suits them rather than "have your back" - its somewhat a childish view of friendship imo.

santana75

....... wrote: »

Im not sure I really believe in the whole "have your back" notion at all outside of being a teenager, because as people get older they get different priorities and families and they will be more likely to do what suits them rather than "have your back" - its somewhat a childish view of friendship imo.

That is the most depressing and cynical comment I've ever read. Expecting friends to have your back is childish? Not a chance. Theres no way I'd ever buy into this notion. In my own life I have my friends backs, and they have mine. We dont see our friendship as transactional, its a really important thing to all of us regardless of family commitments etc. Your friends are not disposable and I would venture to guess that the reason why so many people live in a state of quiet despair at present is because they dont have any real friends, only people who'd drop them in a heartbeat.

leggo

I'd be more in the middle of both of the above. I agree with .... that most people might have, at best, a handful of people in their lives who'd drop everything for them and vice versa if they needed something. I also agree with santana that it's quite cynical to view that as transactional and a bit sad if people don't view that as important.

See I relate a lot to the OP. When I was younger, I used to think along the same lines and try to be a 'good' friend to people: drop everything if they needed me and try help them in troubled situations even if they said they didn't want it because I cared about their overall wellbeing and not just what they brought to my life. I got my feelings hurt a lot, like the OP in this case, by people who didn't have that same loyalty or who'd push me away and not see the big picture. But it's a learning curve and part of growing up to learn that you only dole out this kind of loyalty to the people who are tried and tested, then everyone else is an acquaintance you take a step back with. Of course, you can also be an absolute dick who'd do none of that for anyone, but expect quite a lonely existence in later life if that's the case.

So to call the OP childish is harsh imo. Keep in mind he's in college and, assuming he's not a mature student, he's probably at the exact age where you do learn exactly these kind of lessons. And they're tough to learn, no doubt, it absolutely sucks to go through it. But then you realise that it's normal and everyone else goes through it too, you figure out coping mechanisms and it takes the sting off a bit.

.......

leggo wrote: »

So to call the OP childish is harsh imo.

Just to be clear. I didnt call the OP childish.

I said that the notion of friendship meaning you have each others backs is a bit childish. Different statement entirely.

Im sorry if some people see that as a cynical view but we can all only extrapolate from our own experiences. I could count the number of real friends I have on the fingers of one hand. I have been through some very difficult periods of life, and I have seen who my friends are. When the chips are down it turns out that most people are just fair weather friends. Sorry if that depresses you, but its true.

leggo

Yeah I get that and agree, what I think the OP is saying is that he thought these friends were at that level and that’s what disappoints him. I don’t think he said at any stage that every single person he meets should have his back. So I think you’re kind of making up your own point, ascribing it towards the OP and calling it childish. Yes, if what you said was the case that probably would be childish...but it’s not what anyone has said.

.......

leggo wrote: »

Yeah I get that and agree, what I think the OP is saying is that he thought these friends were at that level and that’s what disappoints him. I don’t think he said at any stage that every single person he meets should have his back. So I think you’re kind of making up your own point, ascribing it towards the OP and calling it childish. Yes, if what you said was the case that probably would be childish...but it’s not what anyone has said.

Highly unlikely college mates youve known a year or so would or could be considered real friends - that level of friendship takes time to build.

diusmr8a504cvk

Sorry been away from the thread for a bit, I've taken everything above on board though.

Thinking it all over, they're decent enough friends to the point that since this thread's inception one of them has asked me a few times about going out on Thursday gone.
In general I think a divide may be occurring, partially my fault as I'm not always able to go out due to putting work first sometimes (as I've to keep a car on the road and be able to live) as well as the fact that maybe I'm seen as a bit of a liability as it's a bit of hassle to organise a night out and can't (generally) be done at the drop of a hat - something that they can do.
Maybe I've matured quicker, I'm pretty much an independent with the exception of my college fees while they just worry about the price of a bus.
All in all, I've enjoyed being to myself for a few days and it's great. But I could probably better my situation and improve relations by living a bit more and putting myself out there more. While I have an excuse, I shouldn't become unsociable either.

Think that's a fair summation.

joeguevara

....... wrote: »

Most people have one or two REAL friends in their life. The rest are a variety of good pals, acquaintances, people you have a bit of craic with.

However, we refer to them all as friends. And it would be totally unrealistic to expect all of these people that you have varying degrees of closeness with to "have your back".

Im not sure I really believe in the whole "have your back" notion at all outside of being a teenager, because as people get older they get different priorities and families and they will be more likely to do what suits them rather than "have your back" - its somewhat a childish view of friendship imo.

I think the OP should read this post...read it again....go away for a few days...come back and read it again. What has been written is a golden ticket for life. The word friend is bandied about quite loosely to the extent that it has lost meaning. From your post the two guys sound like decent skins but they are causing you pain and appear like friends of convenience because of you having a house that was good for pre and Post night out sessions. Can you rely on any of these guys when your life is messed up and you need a shoulder. Are these guys the ones who will pick you up when you are in the gutter and put getting you back on track before whatever is going on with them. Is any one of these the ones you would trust with your life and know that they will disregard any rumors about you and stand up for you no matter what. Because that is a friend. Not people who make you question why one guy is going for drinks with another and not inviting you or why since you don’t have a gaff close to college are you being disregarded.

I thought that people were equivalent to brothers to me but was let down. Very badly. But I have learned that who I thought were friends were not. Don’t be worried to cast them aside. Be true to yourself and make sure your circle deserves to be just that.

rainbowtrout

Aubrielle Icy Babble wrote: »

To be honest I'd rather just be to myself at this stage and let them have at it for now, not in a spiteful way but just out of not really caring at the moment. I'll probably sit out Thursday. I've enough on my plate and to be honest I don't even know what to think anymore.

I think you're being childish and cutting off your nose to spite your face. You live 50km from college. So you're probably not around most evenings. A lot of going out in college is done on the spur of the moment, a quick text 'fancy going out , great I'll be around in 5 mins with a naggin of vodka'. It's not done to intentionally cut you out.

Sorry been away from the thread for a bit, I've taken everything above on board though.

Thinking it all over, they're decent enough friends to the point that since this thread's inception one of them has asked me a few times about going out on Thursday gone.
In general I think a divide may be occurring, partially my fault as I'm not always able to go out due to putting work first sometimes (as I've to keep a car on the road and be able to live) as well as the fact that maybe I'm seen as a bit of a liability as it's a bit of hassle to organise a night out and can't (generally) be done at the drop of a hat - something that they can do.
Maybe I've matured quicker, I'm pretty much an independent with the exception of my college fees while they just worry about the price of a bus.
All in all, I've enjoyed being to myself for a few days and it's great. But I could probably better my situation and improve relations by living a bit more and putting myself out there more. While I have an excuse, I shouldn't become unsociable either.

Think that's a fair summation.

By your own admission, you work (presumably part time) and I'm assuming that in the evenings/weekends. Therefore you are not always available. And also by your own admission, you are not available at the drop of a hat, because of work and because you commute. Your friends are under no obligation whatsoever to put their social lives on hold because you don't live near the college and work in the evenings.

And you haven't matured faster than them. That just sounds like you are trying to get in a dig. You live at home, whether by choice or necessity, and run a car. If you were living at college too, all you would be worrying about is the price of a bus. Running a car doesn't make you more mature or independent than them.

diusmr8a504cvk

rainbowtrout wrote: »

By your own admission, you work (presumably part time) and I'm assuming that in the evenings/weekends. Therefore you are not always available. And also by your own admission, you are not available at the drop of a hat, because of work and because you commute. Your friends are under no obligation whatsoever to put their social lives on hold because you don't live near the college and work in the evenings.

Yeah, I never said they had to put their social lives on hold - I'd have no problem with anybody asking me if I could go out, me replying no and then going out anyway.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

and you haven't matured faster than them. That just sounds like you are trying to get in a dig. You live at home, whether by choice or necessity, and run a car. If you were living at college too, all you would be worrying about is the price of a bus. Running a car doesn't make you more mature or independent than them.

Alright mate you just seem to be the one that wants to get a dig in here. I said 'maybe' I've matured quicker and you just decided to go all in calling me out, go enjoy your Sunday.

rainbowtrout

Aubrielle Icy Babble wrote: »

Yeah, I never said they had to put their social lives on hold - I'd have no problem with anybody asking me if I could go out, me replying no and then going out anyway.


Alright mate you just seem to be the one that wants to get a dig in here. I said 'maybe' I've matured quicker and you just decided to go all in calling me out, go enjoy your Sunday.

You probably shouldn't use internet forums if you only post in the hope that everyone will agree with you.

diusmr8a504cvk

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You probably shouldn't use internet forums if you only post in the hope that everyone will agree with you.

Nah I'm used to people not going along with my opinion, just not people just seemingly throwing in the boot for no reason.

Jog on.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, you seem to want to be asked just so you can say you can't. It's a silly way to look at things. You are the one who lives away. You are the one least likely to be able to go out midweek. Going out, for them, involves no planning, no organising. They just decide and go. Chances are the night they went out, you were already gone home, and they just decided to go out. It happens.

If you want to go out with them, it really is up to you to involve yourself and organise it.

You speak of maturity but your reaction to this and your decision to not bother going out with them in a preplanned night doesn't come across as very mature.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, Personal Issues is an advice forum, where posters post looking for advice and opinion from impartial people. You may not always agree with what is posted. The basic rule of Personal Issues is mature, civil posting. We expect that from all posters, even OPs.

Telling another poster to 'jog on' falls short of that.

diusmr8a504cvk

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

OP, you seem to want to be asked just so you can say you can't. It's a silly way to look at things. You are the one who lives away. You are the one least likely to be able to go out midweek. Going out, for them, involves no planning, no organising. They just decide and go. Chances are the night they went out, you were already gone home, and they just decided to go out. It happens.

If you want to go out with them, it really is up to you to involve yourself and organise it.

You speak of maturity but your reaction to this and your decision to not bother going out with them in a preplanned night doesn't come across as very mature.

To be honest I just want to be asked, I've said it umpteen times before on here that I can get a roof for the night. Everything else I somewhat agree with.

December2012

OP that's not really on though is it? You want to be asked fair enough I guess.

But I don't ask out somebody who won't, didn't or can't come out.

I think you're being very unfair on yoir friends and putting a lot of pressure on your friendship. Honestly it shouldn't be this intense. You don't need ride or die friends, you need people to have a laugh with.

Try to relax about it.

Pawwed Rig

If I ask someone to go out and they can't for whatever reason and ask them another time and get turned down again the ball is now in their court. I neither want to harrass someone into doing something they are reluctant to do nor do I want to be the seen as begging for their company. If you say no once then it is on you to make plans imo

Bobtheman

Friendships are complex. They are entitled to meet up without you. You keep in touch. Don't go off sulking. Invite them out when it suits you.
Broaden your social circle. Get involved in stuff
I'm much older than you but it takes a long time to find real friends. People will suit themselves first. By the time you are 30 you should have 3 real friends.
You seem to have too much time to think about this and need some hobbies. Sport or whatever. Get busy man.

lawred2

Aubrielle Icy Babble wrote: »

To be honest I'd rather just be to myself at this stage and let them have at it for now, not in a spiteful way but just out of not really caring at the moment. I'll probably sit out Thursday. I've enough on my plate and to be honest I don't even know what to think anymore.

You clearly do care so no point trying to fool yourself.

Chill out and knock the taking offence on the head or you'll find yourself on your own a lot more than you do now.

Nobody owes you anything.