John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

Chancer3001

D14Rugby wrote: »

He shouted from the rooftops about taking a 10% pay cut saying everyone else in the organisation shouldn't be mad that they took a pay cut because it was across the board which was a lie.
The national teams have to hand back their kit so other teams can use them too.
I would go into detail but I really can't be arsed engaging with you anymore since it's obvious you've made your mind up and just choosing to ignore all the points that contradict your view

The paycut he took by donaying his uefa allowance was way more than 10%

Not being properly kitted out is not yhe same as giving the kit back to be washed at the end of a game.

Chancer3001

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Transparency and accountability are non existent with the FAI. Irish soccer has deserved better than this.

I hope there is a protest at the 33rd minute of every game for for the next 14 years if need be. CEO's for life is never going to benefit Irish football.

The finamces are published after every year

The prize money on offer to LOI is available.

What else do you want for it to be transparent that other FAs do ??

topmanamillion

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Wow those 8 points are some of the worst ideas I've seen.

Pretty much all of them invilve reducing the numbers of players actuwlly playing soccer in the country. And "forcing" volunteers to either do courses or quit... a lot are going to quit.

You're entire contribution to this thread can be summed up as "maintain the status quo".

Iceland, a country with a tenth of our population have more UEFA B accredited coaches than us (400).

In Iceland you have to have a UEFA B badge to coach from U10 upwards. My suggestion would require us to train 800-1000 UEFA B coaches.
Even then, per capita, we'd still be well below Icelands level.

We either want to produce elite footballers or we don't.
A UEFA B badge requires 130 hours of education. Any volunteer that's put off by that isn't very committed.

15 years ago Belgium and Iceland were minnows propping up qualification groups. They radically overhauled their footballing structures and have reaped the benefits since then.

gormdubhgorm

I looked up the name of this because I read it a good few years ago it is about the political goings on of the FAI in the early 2000s

Beyond the Green Door: Six Years Inside the FAI by former FAI Chief Executive Brendan Menton.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Green-Door-Years-Inside/dp/1841316369

I think it is still relevant to the present days goings on.

Chancer3001

Well then, would ya not incentivise taking the course?

Make it super accessible. Make it free. Make them available everywhere. Make em available as part of the dole or community service.

The earlier suggesyion was "get one or bugger off". They cost a nice few quid at the moment

Edit - why not work with the ITs around the country to offer a course in foorball coaching?

Chancer3001

"We either want to produce elite footballers or we don't.
A UEFA B badge requires 130 hours of education. Any volunteer that's put off by that isn't very committed."

Wow. You realise you cant just start at uefa b level no?

You need uefa c

Before that you need uefa d

Etc

D14Rugby

Genuinely can't tell if this is serious or taking the piss?

DeanAustin

topmanamillion wrote: »

You're entire contribution to this thread can be summed up as "maintain the status quo".

Iceland, a country with a tenth of our population have more UEFA B accredited coaches than us (400).

In Iceland you have to have a UEFA B badge to coach from U10 upwards. My suggestion would require us to train 800-1000 UEFA B coaches.
Even then, per capita, we'd still be well below Icelands level.

We either want to produce elite footballers or we don't.
A UEFA B badge requires 130 hours of education. Any volunteer that's put off by that isn't very committed.

15 years ago Belgium and Iceland were minnows propping up qualification groups. They radically overhauled their footballing structures and have reaped the benefits since then.

When were Belgium ever propping up qualifying groups?

One other point people seem to gloss over. Delaney did donate his UEFA salary to the FAI. Now I accept he is overpaid by the FAI and that the optics on the rent look bad but does he get no credit for donating that money to the FAI? It certainly contradicts the narrative of a man that is only in it for his own personal gain.

kippy

DeanAustin wrote: »

When were Belgium ever propping up qualifying groups?

One other point people seem to gloss over. Delaney did donate his UEFA salary to the FAI. Now I accept he is overpaid by the FAI and that the optics on the rent look bad but does he get no credit for donating that money to the FAI? It certainly contradicts the narrative of a man that is only in it for his own personal gain.

We are told that is what he did. How can we now believe this was actually the case?

kippy

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Nobody is suggesting keepingthings as they are. Im just asking for people to form an argument.

What would you advise is done?

Form an argument? For what?
There's plenty arguments been formed on this thread.
Just because you don't agree with the majority of the sentiment here does not mean arguments haven't been made.
Why don't you form an argument to keep the status quo?

Fr Tod Umptious

kippy wrote: »

We are told that is what he did. How can we now believe this was actually the case?

Well you can't because there is only one type of narrative allowed.

Anything bad happen in FAI/to the FAI/Irish soccer in general = JDs fault

Anything good happen in FAI/to the FAI/Irish soccer in general = nothing to do with JD

Bad press about JD = 100% true.
Good press about JD = cannot be believed.

kippy

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Well then, would ya not incentivise taking the course?

Make it super accessible. Make it free. Make them available everywhere. Make em available as part of the dole or community service.

The earlier suggesyion was "get one or bugger off". They cost a nice few quid at the moment

Edit - why not work with the ITs around the country to offer a course in foorball coaching?

Great ideas.
Maybe some of it is happening already.
If not one would ask why? Surely this is the type of policy a governing body should come up with and implement....... If only we had a governing body capable of doing this.......

kippy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well you can't because there is only one type of narrative allowed.

Anything bad happen in FAI/to the FAI/Irish soccer in general = JDs fault

Anything good happen in FAI/to the FAI/Irish soccer in general = nothing to do with JD

Bad press about JD = 100% true.
Good press about JD = cannot be believed.

How are we to believe anything coming from the FAI based on recent events?

Who is to know if there are other successful injunctions in effect stopping other stories getting out over the years?

Would you continue to believe what you are being told about an organisation that hides a five million euro cash injection, attempts to hide a CEO loan, hides a portion of renumeration for their CEO for years?
How are we to know that other staff aren't on the same deals?

There's plenty narrative 'allowed' but the naivety and or ignorance of some is laughable.

Chancer3001

So the argument had shifted to "maybe there's other bad stuff we dont know about"

dan1895

dan1895 wrote: »

Never realised Delaney's bootlicks were on here in such numbers.

As I said last week

ASOT

Someone doesn't agree with you so that means there a Delaney bootlicker, hilarious

Chancer3001

Posters with 1000s of posts across multiple forums over years...

Doesnt agree - works for john delaney innit.

Thats the calibre of some posters

DeanAustin

Personally, I think Delaney should go because having someone as head of the organisation for this long is not healthy. Particularly when his record is patchy and some of what’s gone on has been clearly inappropriate. They way he was appointed into the EVP role was also wrong.

However, I’m very uncomfortable with the narrative being spun that Delaney is a crook and so are the others in the association. They should be given the right to defend themselves and not have everything they’ve done over the years spun as being negative. It’s turned into a witch hunt and that’s not right in my book. And the fact that any counter argument is being shouted down as “you must work for the FAI” is also wrong.

kippy

Chancer3001 wrote: »

So the argument had shifted to "maybe there's other bad stuff we dont know about"

That's not an argument.
That's a statement and I didnt say "Maybe there's other "BAD" stuff we don't know about"

How can we believe anything we are being told by the FAI or JD?
Another reason to change the board/JD.

Chancer3001

kippy wrote: »

That's not an argument.
That's a statement.

How can we believe anything we are being told by the FAI or JD?
Another reason to change the board/JD.

Jaysus.

Cant believe nasa about the moon. Disband them

Cant believe trump. Get rid of him

Cant believe simon harris. New minister please.

Cant believe apple, boycott their products.

Cant trust nestle. Ban their stuff.

kippy

DeanAustin wrote: »

Personally, I think Delaney should go because having someone as head of the organisation for this long is not healthy. Particularly when his record is patchy and some of what’s gone on has been clearly inappropriate. They way he was appointed into the EVP role was also wrong.

However, I’m very uncomfortable with the narrative being spun that Delaney is a crook and so are the others in the association. They should be given the right to defend themselves and not have everything they’ve done over the years spun as being negative. It’s turned into a witch hunt and that’s not right in my book. And the fact that any counter argument is being shouted down as “you must work for the FAI” is also wrong.

Crook is a strong term however it would depend on your interpretation of the meaning of "Crook"
If we were to take one meaning from here:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/crook
"A person who is dishonest, cheats or steals"

The you say that:
"Particularly when his record is patchy and some of what’s gone on has been clearly inappropriate. They way he was appointed into the EVP role was also wrong."

"Patchy, inappropirate and wrong" are the terms you've used.

kippy

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Jaysus.

Cant believe nasa about the moon. Disband them

Cant believe trump. Get rid of him

Cant believe simon harris. New minister please.

Cant believe apple, boycott their products.

Cant trust nestle. Ban their stuff.

This thread is about John Delaney and by extension the FAI and Irish Soccer.
If you have issues with NASA, Trump, Simon Harris, Apple, Nestle take it to the appropriate thread/forum.
Yet another attempt at strawmanning/distraction.
"Quick - look over there, they are worse than us"

DeanAustin

kippy wrote: »

Crook is a strong term however it would depend on your interpretation of the meaning of "Crook"
If we were to take one meaning from here:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/crook
"A person who is dishonest, cheats or steals"

The you say that:
"Particularly when his record is patchy and some of what’s gone on has been clearly inappropriate. They way he was appointed into the EVP role was also wrong."

"Patchy, inappropirate and wrong" are the terms you've used.

“Patchy” meaning the decline of the game in the country, the ticket price farce and the lack of progress for the LOI.

“Inappropriate” meaning that the head of an association shouldn’t be loaning that association money under any circumstances no matter how well intentioned.

“Wrong” in the sense that if an EVP position was needed then there should have been a proper recruitment process.

None of the above necessarily constitute dishonesty, cheating or stealing. Potentially they could (and that’s how a lot of posters are spinning it on here) but Delaney and the FAI should have a right of defence before they’re condemned the way they have been by the public and media over the last few weeks.

irelandrover

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Jaysus.

Cant believe nasa about the moon. Disband them

Cant believe trump. Get rid of him

Cant believe simon harris. New minister please.

Cant believe apple, boycott their products.

Cant trust nestle. Ban their stuff.

What has Delaney done in the last 14 years to justify his high salary?

kippy

DeanAustin wrote: »

“Patchy” meaning the decline of the game in the country, the ticket price farce and the lack of progress for the LOI.

“Inappropriate” meaning that the head of an association shouldn’t be loaning that association money under any circumstances no matter how well intentioned.

“Wrong” in the sense that if an EVP position was needed then there should have been a proper recruitment process.

None of the above necessarily constitute dishonesty, cheating or stealing. Potentially they could (and that’s how a lot of posters are spinning it on here) but Delaney and the FAI should have a right of defence before they’re condemned the way they have been by the public and media over the last few weeks.

Of course they could (and it's not spin) - without knowing the full facts though it is very difficult to know how "inappropriate" the 100K loan was - we're being told by the very people involved that there was nothing amiss here. Which is why is requires a proper investigation by the OCE.
As for the EVP position - it's not just about a proper recruitment process - it's about the timing, the need for the position in the first instance amoung other things.

The FAI and JD have a right to defence - they have a massive legal team, that they've used to try hide whats going on, and they've a PR company/function spinning for them.
All using money that was intended for Irish Soccer.
They've also been called before an Oireachtas committee.
They've getting plenty opportunities to defend themselves.


If an OCE investigation into the going on in the FAI come back with a "nothing to see here" result - grand. That settles things a bit.
But it doesn't take away from the fact that the FAI are overpaying senior staff, hiding said payments and ultimately failing in their brief.

DeanAustin

irelandrover wrote: »

What has Delaney done in the last 14 years to justify his high salary?

Not saying this is the case but if we were to assume that we’d not have gotten anything from the France debacle without Delaney, then the 5 million payment was about 12 years’ salary. Someone said we could have taken FIFA to the Court of Arbitration but I find it hard to believe that FIFA would be penalised that heavily for what amounted to a refereeing error that happens every weekend of the year. That said, I’m not an expert in the area so I’d be curious to know if there is a precedent. The Europa League final was also here on his watch, the stadium is paid off and we’ll have Euro games next year.

I’m not saying Delaney is responsible for all of the above or that he was worth his salary but I’m sure there is a counter argument. Personally, I do think Delaney was grossly overpaid but I’ve seen people here say he should be on €100k - €150k a year. That’s nonsense. I get around that amount and my job has nowhere near his responsibility. The man is a CEO ffs.

Chancer3001

irelandrover wrote: »

What has Delaney done in the last 14 years to justify his high salary?

Just off the top of my head

Oversaw productuon of the aviva stadium. Our new home of football. Modern stadium.

Introduced development teams at u13 u15 u17 and u19 in all areas to pool togetyer the best players. Allocate them proprr qualified coaches and give the lads top quality opposition week in week out. Each team costs about 70k per season so its a huge investment.

Introduced an all ireland futsal schools competition to encourage 1st years, boys and girls to develop their skills and play the gane properly.

Appointed the dutch lad (forget the name) to oversee technical development and youth set up.

Improved facilities across the nation. In my area alone i know of 10 dressing rooms, pitches and astros that the FAI have massively contributed to. And thats only the ones i know off the top of my head

Dont have time to write more

artanevilla

Ruud Dokter, another one who has to go.

DeanAustin

artanevilla wrote: »

Ruud Dokter, another one who has to go.

Why?

Idbatterim

Already thousands won’t go to the matches due to the cesspit that is Delaney / fai. Forty thousand at the aviva at the start of a new qualification campaign with a respected manager. If ten thousand more don’t go to a few more matches it will force it. We will never get everyone on board! Stand up and be counted!