Inconsistent and biased moderation in the soccer forum

Liam McPoyle

So that's the route you are going down now Beasty?

Picking out posts of mine, some of which are from god knows how long ago in an effort to undermine what I'm saying on this thread.

Wow, that's a new low, it really is, and it proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you cannot provide answers to the questions I'm asking here because you know, deep down, that what I'm saying is true.

I'd be confident that if you went through my entire post history you would find other posts that could have been actioned and some that should have been actioned, not just in the soccer forum.

The same could be said for many other posters in the SF and across the site.

But that means absolutely nothing in the context of this thread. Not a single thing, because the fact remains that fish has targeted United fans and given them cards for things that other people have gotten away with scot-free.

So you can stick a fork in the thread as it's clearly done.

One final note. It's immensely disappointing that from the outset and up until your last post you have tried to paint me and other United fans as some kind of perpetually offended agitators. The admins are held up as the last bastion of impartiality on the site, that everyone is given a fair hearing by them and when users draw attention to what they believe is a very real issue that they will be listened to and their concerns would be acknowledged. Instead, the below was in your very first post

Unfortunately I have seen plenty of evidence of United fans looking for things to get offended by.

And ye wonder why others don't raise issues?

Thank you for your time.

BC

Skylinehead

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Does it really though? 23 cards in a United thread he doesn’t even post in. How does that stack up against the rest of the mods? What percentage of cards in the United thread is he responsible for? I’d like to hear those stats before classing it as debunked.

What the hell does carding have to do with posting in a given thread?

Beasty

Business Cat wrote: »

So that's the route you are going down now Beasty?

Selectively choosing examples to support my point - yes I completely acknowledge that.

Let's face it - my position is clear and I've seen absolutely nothing to change that. I accept there is inconsistency, and those examples I posted support that. I do not accept there is bias, and I have seen absolutely nothing in this thread to sway my view. Your view is clearly not going to change either, and you are entitled to that view.

bucketybuck

Beasty wrote: »

but let's leave that until the annual SF feedback thread as trying to implement anything new part way through a season is only going to lead to confusion and complexity.

Thats just hilarious! You do know we remember the last feedback thread, right? You know, the one with all the examples of inconsistent moderation towards certain threads? The one that that changed absolutely nothing and hasn't been mentioned since?

And this thread will end up exactly the same. But even if it is to be ignored at least I can say the words, I made a conscious decision to post less because of the moderation of the soccer forum.

Will I Am Not

Nixonbot wrote: »

What the hell does carding have to do with posting in a given thread?

About as much as asking if a post should be acted upon has to do with posting in a given thread.

adox

I’ve given up posting on the soccer forum after being a regular poster for 13 years.

It’s shambolic at this stage and this thread only highlights the utter lack of will to even look at the problems It’s just a baton down the hatches and rally the troops to shut it down.

Just like the last feedback thread where everything was ignored.

It’s your site and you can run it whatever way you want but the lack of honesty by the mods and powers that be is absolutely galling. You may ultimately end up bringing down what you seem so vehemently trying to defend at any cost.

Beasty, you would make a good politician, not answering any of the points directly, just posting a load of whataboutery and condescending nonsense.

It’s utterly shameful.

The Utd thread is an embarrassment.

Skylinehead

Will I Am Not wrote: »

About as much as asking if a post should be acted upon has to do with posting in a given thread.

I didn't make any such argument, I'm asking what your point is.

Will I Am Not

Nixonbot wrote: »

I didn't make any such argument, I'm asking what your point is.

I was replying to Beasty, in the same kind of way he replied to me.

hullaballoo

As an impartial, I'm not seeing any real resolution here.

Let's not beat around the bush. Some Manchester United fans are still annoyed that "their" mod was demodded and are now finding absolutely any and every excuse to attack what will always be an imperfect system of moderation.

The SF has always endeavored to have moderators from each of the "big" (read: most problematic) teams as mods. But that requires a cool head and an ability to be objective.

Once the objectivity and cool-headedness goes, so does the opportunity to have a moderator who sympathises with you.

The long and short of it is someone with a bit of sense needs to step up and get themselves into the fray.

Fighting amongst yourselves is not helping the cause.

ebbsy

adox wrote: »

I’ve given up posting on the soccer forum after being a regular poster for 13 years.

It’s shambolic at this stage and this thread only highlights the utter lack of will to even look at the problems It’s just a baton down the hatches and rally the troops to shut it down.

Just like the last feedback thread where everything was ignored.

It’s your site and you can run it whatever way you want but the lack of honesty by the mods and powers that be is absolutely galling. You may ultimately end up bringing down what you seem so vehemently trying to defend at any cost.

Beasty, you would make a good politician, not answering any of the points directly, just posting a load of whataboutery and condescending nonsense.

It’s utterly shameful.

The Utd thread is an embarrassment.

And that's before we start talking about their team.

Liam McPoyle

hullaballoo wrote: »

As an impartial, I'm not seeing any real resolution here.

Let's not beat around the bush. Some Manchester United fans are still annoyed that "their" mod was demodded and are now finding absolutely any and every excuse to attack what will always be an imperfect system of moderation.

The SF has always endeavored to have moderators from each of the "big" (read: most problematic) teams as mods. But that requires a cool head and an ability to be objective.

Once the objectivity and cool-headedness goes, so does the opportunity to have a moderator who sympathises with you.

The long and short of it is someone with a bit of sense needs to step up and get themselves into the fray.

Fighting amongst yourselves is not helping the cause.

Hi H.

I want to be 100% clear here. This thread was not started by me because I have an axe to grind about MrMacs demodding. He's a big boy and ive no doubt he doesnt need me or anyone else to fight his battles for him. I'd hazard a guess that some of the parties involved here are, behind the scenes, putting forward that hypothesis in an effort to undermine my credibility. It's an easy tune to play to draw attention away from what I and clearly others feel is a very real issue.

The United thread has long been the most fast moving in the forum ie, hitting the 10k thread limit, even in the days when vangall or Moyes were in charge and things were less than rosey on field. The sharp decline in participation from regular and long term posters and the fact its running parallel with alot of questionable mod actions is no coincidence.

Hotblack Desiato

hullaballoo wrote: »

As an impartial, I'm not seeing any real resolution here.

Let's not beat around the bush. Some Manchester United fans are still annoyed that "their" mod was demodded

Right, let me get this straight.

LFC fans are allowed call MUFC fans nonces.

No non-LFC fan is allowed call a fan of another club a nonce.

We're clear now.

Neutral

Moderation and what I perceive as mod bias and inconsistency have just put me off treating the United thread as a regular stop anymore after 7 years posting there.

Another mod has suggested in here that the United thread is going quiet and/or we have a bee in our bonnet because of on-field results and performances. Funny that, as I remember the thread being quite busy and present on the mainpage during the worst days of Moyes and LVG. Also, United's current poor form is not putting me off discussing football/United on other sites and elsewhere in life.

There's a perfect example in the United thread from earlier tonight of the stuff which goes unpunished and can bait posters into picking up a card themselves...

Neutral wrote:

I say fair play to the Utd fans who opposed his appointment from the get go based on his character history and style. They come out of this looking good imo. Very easy to sell your soul for the possibility of success.

This poster will have known that there was a lot of support for Jose in the United thread during those first two seasons. So he has basically come in to say 'Most of you sold your soul'. Right, where do we go from that discussion-wise? Was he honestly attempting to engage in debate?

The same poster was at that same shtick in the United thread 7 months ago when United 0 - 1 West Brom confirmed City as champions...

Some contrast between posts eight days ago and posts this evening. #mourinhoball didn’t used to offer these types of lows so regularly. Big game next Saturday. Will be quite the crisis summit in the event of defeat.

...and the only posters carded were those in the thread who suggested there was winding-up afoot....

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106737599&postcount=3812

And that's what it was, winding up, and that wasn't the 'neutral' posters only attempt that evening. A regular poster in the United thread had just posted that he was quitting the thread, and heavily implied that it was the thread which was the reason rather than anything related to football or Mourinho...

Stringer Bell wrote:

I had a long post wrote detailing my exact feelings and reasoning for said feelings, but on reflection this place just isn't worth it. **** this thread, I have nothing more to contribute to it. There are some good posters in here but there is just too many absolute dickheads to waste more time here.

Enjoy the world cup

Fair enough, but then the neutral poster quotes him and replies with...

Neutral wrote:

Personally don’t find it in the least surprising that a decent proportion of the fanbase are annoyed with limited football from an entertainment perspective that has failed to yield the big prize or challenge for same.

Where did he draw any of that from Stringer's post? He didn't, and he knew exactly what he was doing.

Thanks4DaFish was around that night to hand out cards to those calling out the WUMs, yet those particular examples of WUMing above from a fellow Liverpool fan went unpunished.

Also, another mod has suggested in here that United fans on Boards have an axe to grind after the demodding of Mr. Mac. Well, I can't speak for all of the other United posters, but that incident has no affect on my words here. Fwiw, I wasn't a big fan of Mr. Mac the mod. In another disclosure which might surprise some - I have absolutely no problem with Slick Ric.

Never mind anything else though, that card for 'Bemitiez' shows a clear bias IMO. Just bizarre. If that doesn't show bias, I'm not sure what does. It's not as if we're going to see the mod posting "I'm biased against United fans". It's their actions which will tell us, and that's why we have this thread now it seems.

Admin/mods can tell themselves and their superiors that the United thread is quiet because United are shíte and/or there's a sulk going on over Mr. Mac. The reality is though that moderation is absolutely strangling the place and just putting longtime posters off discussing United on Boards.

Hotblack Desiato

Well that's just it exactly.

Anyone calling out an obvious troll or WUM is carded, the trolls and WUMs are not and have free rein.

Every time a goal is scored against Utd, (never mind a bad loss, just a goal being scored) in they come with their oh so constructive posts.

If the mods are wondering why there are fewer and fewer posts they don't have far to look.

Bobeagleburger

The soccer forum on the whole is fine. The vast majority of threads tick along with little orno issues.The mods do a decent job in a tough forum to mod.

This seems like a vandetta thread or certain posters have axes to grind if I'm being honest.

pjohnson

hullaballoo wrote: »

As an impartial, I'm not seeing any real resolution here.

Let's not beat around the bush. Some Manchester United fans are still annoyed that "their" mod was demodded and are now finding absolutely any and every excuse to attack what will always be an imperfect system of moderation.

The SF has always endeavored to have moderators from each of the "big" (read: most problematic) teams as mods. But that requires a cool head and an ability to be objective.

Once the objectivity and cool-headedness goes, so does the opportunity to have a moderator who sympathises with you.

The long and short of it is someone with a bit of sense needs to step up and get themselves into the fray.

Fighting amongst yourselves is not helping the cause.

Its nothing to do with who the mod supports. Its to do with consistency. The "charter" is a joke with most of it being only occasionaly enforced to differing severity. Yeah moderation will always be somewhat imperfect but it has just failed completely in the soccer forum over the last few months.

It appears that there is at the very least no communication between any of the mods and certainly no interest in actually maintaining any standard of discussion in the forum. Only occasionally do breaches get acted on. But its obvious it will only be fobbed off to the next pointless feedback thread that will change nothing.

The whole attitude of "their mod" is moronic. Mods should primarily be focused on stopping the forum descending to a dumpsterfire. Regardless of who supports who and who reports what where. Breaches per the charter should be carded. Or the charter should just be binned and officially make it a free for all. A half arséd charter is just causing inconsistency when sometimes, something might be a breach of it.

pjohnson

Just noticed there is apparently a moderator discussion area. Then how can things be so awful do they not discuss/try to establish a standard?

And the whole AH style crap of "looking to be offended" yeah its childish but simple question if a post breaches charter then why does it matter what club the person reporting it follows?

Are you only supposed to report posts from people who support the same team as you or something?

VW 1

Not a whole heap to add to the contributions above, other than to say the actions surrounding the end of season incidents last year, lack of action, and feedback swept under the carpet leaves me barely flicking through the soccer forum these days, never mind wanting to engage or contribute.

The Manchester unite thread is one of the most entertaining on the Boards.ie. I always enjoy reading it. But I can see every day, veiled comments about a mod, and have seen over a few years a campaign by a few against the mod mentioned in OP. I think this guy does the job for many years? Not get paid, and is shown not to favouritise.

It is sad and a bit childish to try to bully.

LuckyLloyd

In my opinion the root cause of the “issues” raised here is the continued poor performance of Manchester United FC on the pitch, particularly in light of strong performance from their two biggest rival clubs - but most specifically in light of the increasing failure of a high profile management appointment and significant doubt over the short to medium term future of the club.

To be blunt, negative opinions on Utd are currently reasoned by any objective measure and this is clearly hard for those posting here to swallow. When their fortunes on the pitch improve, so will their comfort level with the boards soccer forum improve. But, of course, that is beyond the remit of boards.ie.

And I say this as a Liverpool fan sanctioned by T4TF earlier this year - a sanction upheld in DR.

bucketybuck

- The Manchester United thread remained one of the busiest threads on the board right throughout the tenure of David Moyes and Louis Van Gaal, seasons where United performed extremely poorly.

- The United thread remained very active right throughout the first 2 years of Mourinhos reign.

- Simple logic would suggest that discontent often generates far more discussion than success, after all you can you congratulate a team far quicker than you can explain where it went wrong. And it is also true that the current multi-sided Jose v Board v Players situation will by its nature have people taking different sides and in turn generating more combative discussion.

- Multiple long time posters have explicitly stated their reasons for walking away. Most of the discontent can be traced back to last summer and some very blatant examples of moderator bias being displayed, and then the feedback from that incident being completely ignored. Further bias has been observed on multiple occasions since that incident.

In short, certain people can pretend and claim that the problems highlighted are just a result of United doing poorly if they want, but really, who do they think they are fooling?

Hotblack Desiato

That's a complete load of nonsense Lloyd.

During the Moyes era and the end of the LVG era, traffic went UP not down. What's more likely to provoke discussion than the wheels falling off the wagon on the pitch and an imminent managerial sacking? Will he, won't he be sacked this week, who could replace him etc. etc. There were thousands of posts on exactly that.

Given that most MUFC fans, myself included, expect Jose to be gone before the end of the season it's oddly quiet in there. The reason for this is the rampant trolling, blatant misapplication of the rules and the consequent departure of many long-term posters.

pjohnson

Well the fact that posts asking about why the charter isn't actually followed says a lot about how effective this thread will be.

The_Kew_Tour

This suggestion that they're a balanced and fairness approach really is tosh.

It's apparent too that the Feedback thread every year is just another waste of time and a kinda of 'we care about you' gesture. Just don't bother with it if end result is same year after year.

If you want to pretend it's fair then by all means go ahead. I don't even bother reporting posts really what's the point. Same lads have been at it for years but because a few are pally pally with Mods they get away with it.

Sad thing is it's a minority that's driving away the majority

jaykay74

I notice the trolling of the thread at the weekend was ignored.

LuckyLloyd

There are over 6400 posts in the Utd superthread in a two month period. In the current context of boards.ie that is indicative of an extremely busy thread in the relative sense. But nonetheless, to accept the arguments put forth in this thread we have to ignore the following obvious explanations for discontent / lack of interest from formerly avid contributors:

• The club's declining fortunes - particularly in light of a "can't miss" managerial appointment failing
• The declining traffic on the website as a whole as people move onto other mediums / fail to be replaced by adequate amounts of new members
• A desire for an 'eye for an eye' following the demodding of a Utd fan in the summer

And instead say that, yes, there is biased moderation specifically against Utd fans on the forum even though other soccer forum moderators, C Mods and the Admin team have looked into the matter and - with access to reported posts / sanctions / conversations in mod forums / etc - concluded otherwise. Or if it's not "biased", it's deliberately "inconsistent" to the specific detriment of Utd fans.

Seems far fetched to me.

Liam McPoyle

@Lloyd

Some of your points have already been addressed in detail. Long term posters in the United thread have posted in here and elsewhere and said why they aren’t contributing any more. If you choose to dismiss those then that’s your prerogative, I’m certainly not going to waste my time trying to qualify what others have said just to satisfy you.

In relation to your “eye for an eye” comment.

I have no doubt whatsoever that if I started this thread in a week, a month or a year from now, the same argument would be trotted out. MrMac’s demodding provides a very convenient defence here and it gives admins something to hide behind rather than address what is clearly an issue for a lot of people. The questions I asked from the outset are as yet unanswered and most likely will remain unanswered, other than a fluffy, hand waving non answer.

You are questioning my motivations for this thread. What are your motivations for coming to the defence of fish? You are a long term poster on the soccer forum and a supporter of LFC. Fish is a long term poster on the soccer forum and also a supporter of LFC as well as being a mod of the soccer forum. Could it be that you are trying to protect fish as supporters of the same team and long term posters in the forum? Could it be that you want to keep an extra LFC mod on board because you know they will step on anyone that acts the prick in the LFC thread? Could it be that having someone that has the back of you and other LFC fans on the forum is in your own best interests?

See how easy it is to make things up in order to undermine someone’s credibility while equally questioning their motivations for doing something.

Bobeagleburger

It's not biased. That has been debunked.

Some of the people that complain about trolling are the worst offenders. I seen it as recently as today, a poster moaning about 'visitor' fans in the thread when he himself blatently left a trolling comment in another thread at the weekend.

Going into another thread to troll should be a forum ban, regardless of who you supoort.

Liam McPoyle

RoboKlopp wrote: »

It's not biased. That has been debunked.

Some of the people that complain about trolling are the worst offenders. I seen it as recently as today, a poster moaning about 'visitor' fans in the thread when he himself blatently left a trolling comment in another thread at the weekend.

Going into another thread to troll should be a forum ban, regardless of who you supoort.

Hi roboklopp.

I don't follow.

What has been debunked exactly?

I'll say the same things to you as I said to Lloyd above because coincidently, the exact same pattern applies to you as it does to him.

What are your motivations for coming to the defence of fish? You are a long term poster on the soccer forum and a supporter of LFC. Fish is a long term poster on the soccer forum and also a supporter of LFC as well as being a mod of the soccer forum. Could it be that you are trying to protect fish as supporters of the same team and long term posters in the forum? Could it be that you want to keep an extra LFC mod on board because you know they will step on anyone that acts the prick in the LFC thread? Could it be that having someone that has the back of you and other LFC fans on the forum is in your own best interests?

I've yet to see you, Lloyd, Beasty, Mark or anyone else explain why Adolf Mourinho is card worthy and worthy enough of a card to be upheld at admin level but fraudiola is not even admonishment worthy.

Have you an opinion on that or is it just because?

The_Kew_Tour

Nothing has been "debunked"

Unless you're Stevie Wonder its quiet evident that alarming to see what gets carded and what does not.

Never complained about the few cards I have got but people get away with some awful BS.