who do women dress for?

PlaneSpeeking

SusieBlue wrote: »

What about women/men who are married, or who are done having children?
Are they only well groomed because they're looking for a bit on the side or something?

+1

I'm far from girlie and very far from looking for a bit anywhere (unless Adam Levine is a boardsie and then come and get me!!) - but I like my scent!

Not everything has to send a message right ?

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

SusieBlue wrote: »

What about women/men who are married, or who are done having children?
Are they only well groomed because they're looking for a bit on the side or something?

As a married man, I value looking fit, healthy, and presentable for numerous reasons -- but none of them relates to wanting to cheat on my wife. I don't think it's credible to assume that anyone who values his/her appearance is less likely to be faithful.

SusieBlue

Demetrius Repulsive Threshold wrote: »

As a married man, I value looking fit, healthy, and presentable for numerous reasons -- but none of them relates to wanting to cheat on my wife. I don't think it's credible to assume that anyone who values his/her appearance is less likely to be faithful.

Precisely my point, I agree.

PP is suggesting that anyone who values grooming/looking well is doing so in an effort to attract a mate and to produce children, which makes no sense because many happily married people enjoy taking care of their appearance without such motives.

PlaneSpeeking

SusieBlue wrote: »

Precisely my point, I agree.

PP is suggesting that anyone who values grooming/looking well is doing so in an effort to attract a mate and to produce children, which makes no sense because many happily married people enjoy taking care of their appearance without such motives.

Though someone previously living in jeans and a t-shirt and showering once a week who then starts going out well groomed and fresh smelling should be kept watch upon!

Might be nothing but sometimes can be a sign, but then there'd be other signs too.

For me it is happy coincidence that what a woman dresses and makes up to please herself, is exactly the things that are in nature designed to attract sexual attention from men.

Bigger eyes
Red full lips
Accentuated breast
Peached bottom

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

SusieBlue wrote: »

Precisely my point, I agree.

PP is suggesting that anyone who values grooming/looking well is doing so in an effort to attract a mate and to produce children, which makes no sense because many happily married people enjoy taking care of their appearance without such motives.

Agreed.

I'd say that fit, well-dressed, and well-groomed people generally have higher self-esteem, do better in their careers, and enjoy greater social status. For most, it's part of an overall attitude to life and work.

Floppybits

SusieBlue wrote: »

What about women/men who are married, or who are done having children?
Are they only well groomed because they're looking for a bit on the side or something?

So are you saying that people who are in relationships that they should just stop looking after themselves and let themselves go?

Even though I am married I still like to look well and keep fit mainly for sports.

meeeeh

Floppybits wrote: »

So are you saying that people who are in relationships that they should just stop looking after themselves and let themselves go?

Even though I am married I still like to look well and keep fit mainly for sports.

I think you completely missed the point. The post you quoted was a response to someone who claimed that people dress up for the sole purpose of procreation and to have kids.

SusieBlue

Floppybits wrote: »

So are you saying that people who are in relationships that they should just stop looking after themselves and let themselves go?

Even though I am married I still like to look well and keep fit mainly for sports.

You've missed the point entirely.
PP is saying people only look after their appearance in order to attract partners and produce children, which makes no sense, because many happily married keep themselves groomed just because they like to, NOT because they are trying to cheat on their partner.

Ipso

Deleted User wrote: »

For me it is happy coincidence that what a woman dresses and makes up to please herself, is exactly the things that are in nature designed to attract sexual attention from men.

Bigger eyes
Red full lips
Accentuated breast
Peached bottom

Or to out do other wimmin.
Why else is fake tan popular? Men aren’t attracted to the Lucozade look.

Table Top Joe

Deleted User wrote: »

For me it is happy coincidence that what a woman dresses and makes up to please herself, is exactly the things that are in nature designed to attract sexual attention from men.

Bigger eyes
Red full lips
Accentuated breast
Peached bottom

A truly remarkable coincidence yes, lucky for me too......


The most interesting question regarding the argument that women dress for other women is why?....why would they? what's the purpose?


Anyone want to have a go off that one??

Shanotheslayer

Table Top Joe wrote: »

A truly remarkable coincidence yes, lucky for me too......


The most interesting question regarding the argument that women dress for other women is why?....why would they? what's the purpose?


Anyone want to have a go off that one??

Insecurity.

Mrsmum

Table Top Joe wrote: »

A truly remarkable coincidence yes, lucky for me too......


The most interesting question regarding the argument that women dress for other women is why?....why would they? what's the purpose?


Anyone want to have a go off that one??

I think as regards why - because other women's opinions are the only ones that count (because they are the experts).


Men in my experience are happy so long as you look reasonable ok but women, especially your peer group, which after all are the women you mostly hang out with, know the finer details. They know and appreciate what it took to arrive at the finished look.

eta above applies to all socializing outside of date or on the pull type situations.

Outlaw Pete

SusieBlue wrote: »

Well just for example, the last night I went out I wore jeans because I hurt my leg at the gym & had a massive bruise on my thigh. I wasn’t confident wearing a tiny dress that night because I was conscious of the bruise. I felt more comfortable with my legs covered. The bruise is pretty much gone now so I’ll probably wear a tiny little dress this weekend.

None of that answers the question I asked you tbf. I didn't ask why you would not feel confident in a tiny dress and heels, I asked you why you would.

Ok hun, I was just giving my own take on it, no need to get triggered.
I never asked for your amateur armchair psychologist evaluation on why I dress the way I do.

The only one acting triggered here is you, given that you passive aggressively called me 'hun' . I just don't agree with what you said is all.

retro:electro wrote: »

Cos maybe she thinks she looks daycent in it?

Exactly, she feels confident dressing that way because of how it looks to others which contradicts what she said.

Mrsmum wrote: »

Why would you not. It's a form of power dressing. A woman in heels and a little black dress more often than not feels like she could rule the world.

100%, a woman in a tiny dress and heels "feels like she could rule the world" but that is because of the effect dressing that way has on other people. That's where the confidence comes from. It's where the power you reference comes from.

Again, Susie said:

What random men or women might think of my outfit would never enter into my head.

Truth is both men and woman dress with a mind to what other people think. Situation dependent of course. Sometimes it might to convey a level of respect for a particular situation, an interview, a funeral, a court appearance... and other times it might be so others see us as being attractive as possible. Or it could just be ensuring our clothes are clean so as not to come across as a slob when popping out to the shop.

Not to suggest that there aren't people that genuinely couldn't care less how they look and where it really would never enter their heads what others thought of how their clothes looked, but those people usually have something wrong with them and I'm not saying that flippantly.

We all vary of course. I know people that wouldn't nip to the shops unless they looked immaculate and some who wouldn't even brush their hair. Both are not the norm though, most of us are somewhere in the middle and conformity plays a part too, especially when we're young.

Dressing up to go out and we ALL care what the general consensus of how we appear is, particularly if we were hoping to meet someone. This nonsense that someone is dressing for themselves and not for others is just a line and one we hear more and more of these days from a certain section.

Only recently I seen a girl with a t-shirt on her in town, on her own eating (not judging, so was I) and it said something like "I Dress For Me Not You". I was going to ask her did she realize that it was kind of ironic to be wearing a t-shirt with a message on it for other people when that message said she didn't dress for other people, but I didn't think she'd appreciate the intrusion so I didn't bother.

Women underplaying why they've dressed up has always been a thing though and a harmless one mostly tbf. You'll see women dolled up in films from the 30's and 40's replying to a guy who compliments her with 'This old thing?' but today it's taken on a new form and we keep hearing women aggressively proclaiming that they dress for themselves, to feel good, and couldn't care less what others (particularly men) think. Even from some who've clearly gone to a lot of effort to dress provocatively.

Would be like me putting on my best clobber for a night out. Fitted jeans, nice shirt, Italian leather boots that say I'm rich and going places (I'm not, I'm broke and going nowhere) and then saying.... 'I'm dressing for me and don't care what any random women might think'. I'd hope someone would give a slap if I ever came out with such bollox tbh. Of course if I went to the effort of dressing up I'd care what women thought.

retro:electro

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Exactly, she feels confident dressing that way because of how it looks to others which contradicts what she said..

And what gives you the authority to make such a statement? I know you have self appointed yourself as arbiter of female thought, but the truth is you have no idea why she or anyone else dress the way they do.

SusieBlue

^not quoting the above reply as it’s frankly the length of a gospel and I don’t want to take up the whole page, but it’s interesting that amongst all the similar replies to mine in this thread, mine evoked such a strong reaction from you.

Anyway, to confirm, if I go out wearing a tiny dress and heels it’ll be because I feel good in it, and I like it, and I feel confident in it. Not to impress anyone else.

ETA just noticed you said people who think like me have something wrong with them.
You might want to take a step back and have a think about why me posting my own opinion about how I, myself, dress, gives you the authority to say such a thing.

amacca

I am not a woman

I sometimes dress to impress and I do care what some people think of me.

That may make me shallow but I am also truthful. I would imagine there are plenty of women quite like me in that they dress to impress either other men or other women. This may be delivered as I dress for myself but ultimately why go to all that bother if you are not trying to look good for someone(s) be they of the same gender or not .............when Im at home scratching my hole I tend not to do it in haute couture because it makes me feel good about myself (in fact if I did that sort of thing an outside observer might think I had some sort of psychological disorder)

ie: I do it so I feel confident

q: what makes you feel confident?

a: Looking good

q: who judges if you look good or not?

a: I do

q: really, how so?......how come you look quite similar to a lot of the other women...you came up with this particular style of dress, colour combo and accessories all on your own did you?

a: well its the fashion

q: ah so you are following a trend set by a collection of people etc etc

facehugger99

SusieBlue wrote: »

Anyway, to confirm, if I go out wearing a tiny dress and heels it’ll be because I feel good in it, and I like it, and I feel confident in it. Not to impress anyone else.

I simply don't believe that.

I even think your whole argument, ironically enough, is about trying to impress others.

SusieBlue

facehugger99 wrote: »

I simply don't believe that.

I even think your whole argument, ironically enough, is about trying to impress others.

You don’t have to believe it, I’m not here to convince you.

I can’t understand what is so offensive & hard to believe about the fact that when I get dressed in the morning, I choose what I like and what I am comfortable/confident in, without considering what someone I see on the bus might think.
The opinions that some random men and women might have on my choice of outfit just doesnt interest me.

Mrsmum

For some reason Brent Pope and Paul Galvin come to my mind. Now imo they are men who like to dress well and I'd say it's just because they actually like clothes and experimenting etc. I might be wrong but I don't think they are really worried who finds them attractive. They look to me like they are pleasing themselves and find themselves attractive in a good way. So when women say we are dressing for ourselves, I think it's the same kind of thing.

And yes I know they are selling clothes but still they wouldn't have gone in that direction but for their own interest in clothes and grooming etc.

Gimme A Pound

Would those saying they dress up just for themselves agree though that part of the dressing up to make themselves feel good is other people thinking they look good?

I suppose it could be said that I dress for myself in that I only choose clothes I like, whether in fashion or not, and I need to be comfortable (so no very high heels, no extreme cleavage) and warm in the winter. And my skin is lily white and I just wear a small bit of make-up and don't care about my nails so long as they're clean and filed.

However I still ensure I look nice, and attractive - but only because I'm going out. How I look lounging around at home doesn't matter.

I don't think anyone is saying people are lying and that they ONLY dress for others, but that there is a few parts to it, and one of those parts is admiration from others. It has to be the case because it's the reason why there is such a difference between how we dress when going out and when staying in with cans, pizza and Netflix.

Table Top Joe wrote: »

A truly remarkable coincidence yes, lucky for me too......


The most interesting question regarding the argument that women dress for other women is why?....why would they? what's the purpose?


Anyone want to have a go off that one??

I don't get it either. I have one friend who used to constantly compete with other women but gave that up as she grew more confident.

amacca

Mrsmum wrote: »

For some reason Brent Pope and Paul Galvin come to my mind. Now imo they are men who like to dress well and I'd say it's just because they actually like clothes and experimenting etc. I might be wrong but I don't think they are really worried who finds them attractive. They look to me like they are pleasing themselves and find themselves attractive in a good way. So when women say we are dressing for ourselves, I think it's the same kind of thing.

And yes I know they are selling clothes but still they wouldn't have gone in that direction but for their own interest in clothes and grooming etc.

But if there was no one around to see you in those clothes or that well groomed would you put as much effort in?

Surely dressing well and grooming as much part and parcel of being a member of a group as they are about feeling good about oneself.....would you think Brent pioe goes around in a three piece and shiny shoes when he's not on tv or making public appearances etc

The Rape of Lucretia

SusieBlue wrote: »

Anyway, to confirm, if I go out wearing a tiny dress and heels it’ll be because I feel good in it, and I like it, and I feel confident in it. Not to impress anyone else.

The reason you feel good is that it satisfies an innate need to try to attract a mate to protect and provide food for you. You dont consciously do it to impress, but feeling you have made an effort to present yourself, as visually attractively as you can, according to whatever your personal judgement of what that is, gives you the confidence that men will be attracted to you and you will distinguish yourself advantageously from other females in that contest.

Church on Tuesday

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Everything that we do leads back to our basic function as humans. We want to survive to reproduce and protect our young.

Like it or not ladies, you dress well to stand out from the herd to attract would be suitors to reproduce.

The same applies to the gentlemen. It's why you want a well paying job, why you spray your Eu de toilette, it's why you wear your hair in a specific way. It all leads back to reproduction.

What a charmer. There's a lot more to it then that bud; life ain't that black and white as I found out myself.

Granted women dress to impress on a night out, primarily to attract the opposite sex (or whatever) also to keep up with their peers or just because y'know, they really like what they are wearing.

Men do the same to a certain extent. Well the ones that can dress that is.

I personally love clothes, I enjoy expressing my personality through what I wear and I like to look good and not look like some slob when I'm out in public. To me that's attractive but only on the surface level. It shows I have pride in myself, but personality then comes into the picture.

Also I'd want the good paying job for myself TBH, not because it might attract a sexy senorita.

Mrsmum

amacca wrote: »

But if there was no one around to see you in those clothes or that well groomed would you put as much effort in?

Surely dressing well and grooming as much part and parcel of being a member of a group as they are about feeling good about oneself.....would you think Brent pioe goes around in a three piece and shiny shoes when he's not on tv or making public appearances etc

Well not the full works obviously. I think how we dress is a combination of everything really, the situation, who we're meeting, our own personal style. Back along someone said his wife always wears skirts because she knows he likes them. I mightn't be quoting him exactly but something along those lines. Grand if she also likes skirts and feels great in them but not grand at all if only done because he is dictating it (if he was) because at the end of the day personal style is probably the most important thing.

SusieBlue

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The reason you feel good is that it satisfies an innate need to try to attract a mate to protect and provide food for you. You dont consciously do it to impress, but feeling you have made an effort to present yourself, as visually attractively as you can, according to whatever your personal judgement of what that is, gives you the confidence that men will be attracted to you and you will distinguish yourself advantageously from other females in that contest.

So how do you explain happily married people who are well groomed?
What exactly are they trying to achieve seeing as they’ve already attracted their mate?

The Rape of Lucretia

SusieBlue wrote: »

So how do you explain happily married people who are well groomed?
What exactly are they trying to achieve seeing as they’ve already attracted their mate?

Still satisfy the innate desire to be attractive to the opposite sex. Being married, or not consciously going out to have an affair, does not override that stronger force driving their desire to look attractive. It isnt a switch they can just turn off.

Galwayguy35

Mrsmum wrote: »

For some reason Brent Pope and Paul Galvin come to my mind. Now imo they are men who like to dress well and I'd say it's just because they actually like clothes and experimenting etc. I might be wrong but I don't think they are really worried who finds them attractive. They look to me like they are pleasing themselves and find themselves attractive in a good way. So when women say we are dressing for ourselves, I think it's the same kind of thing.

And yes I know they are selling clothes but still they wouldn't have gone in that direction but for their own interest in clothes and grooming etc.

I wouldn't be seen dead in the clothes Galvin wears, I think he's about as far removed from the way 99% of men dress as it's possible to be.

SusieBlue

Draven Massive Tinfoil wrote: »

Would those saying they dress up just for themselves agree though that part of the dressing up to make themselves feel good is other people thinking they look good?

I suppose it could be said that I dress for myself in that I only choose clothes I like, whether in fashion or not, and I need to be comfortable (so no very high heels, no extreme cleavage) and warm in the winter. And my skin is lily white and I just wear a small bit of make-up and don't care about my nails so long as they're clean and filed.

However I still ensure I look nice, and attractive - but only because I'm going out. How I look lounging around at home doesn't matter.

I don't think anyone is saying people are lying and that they ONLY dress for others, but that there is a few parts to it, and one of those parts is admiration from others. It has to be the case because it's the reason why there is such a difference between how we dress when going out and when staying in with cans, pizza and Netflix.

I don't get it either. I have one friend who used to constantly compete with other women but gave that up as she grew more confident.

If I don’t feel my best, it doesn’t matter how many people (if any) tell me I look nice, if I don’t believe it myself then it’s irrelevant.
It won’t make me feel better.
No amount of admiration or compliments will change my mind.
It won’t ruin my day or anything, but it’s just how it is.

I agree with you about the lounging around, I’d be the same.
In fact I don’t wear make up to work either, I dress professionally but wouldn’t wear make up or do anything mad with my hair.

Last week as I was heading out the door and my mam told me she hated my jumper.
I laughed and went on my way.
While I was out I tried a dress on in a shop for an up coming event. My friends loved it and thought it looked lovely and flattering, but I didn’t like it.
So I didn’t buy it.

Maybe it’s becsuse I’m very in tune (I think anyway) with what styles do and don’t suit me.
I don’t just buy things at random, I put a lot of thought into my wardrobe, I’m very picky, so when I choose an outfit, I know it’s something that looks good.
Same with my make up/hair, I have it down to a fine art at this stage.
There are certain trends that I love that are highly fashionable right now that simply don’t suit me, so I avoid them, even though I think they look amazing on other people.
Culotte pants are unfortunately one of those trends

Mrsmum

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I wouldn't be seen dead in the clothes Galvin wears, I think he's about as far removed from the way 99% of men dress as it's possible to be.

My point is not to say his clothes are good or bad but that he looks to me like a guy that enjoys clothes in the way a lot of women do, for the fun of expressing oneself. In a way by saying his style goes against the herd, you are making my point that what one likes is personal to oneself and even thought we are probably biologically programmed to display our best plumage to a certain extent, we know what we like ourselves first and foremost and wear accordingly. He does, you do, I do, we all do.