Can't get a job and have biotech MSc

Brregzit

After my undergrad I ended up spending a year applying for jobs, did several interviews and ended up with nothing. But now, after having thrown in the towel and done a one year taught masters, it seems as if I'm getting ignored in the same way! In fact just to get the job I have, I've pretty much had to pretend to be another person on one version of my CV! It's funny because all I'm hearing is how the economy is picking up.

With the MSc, the plan for my three month internship fell through and I ended up having to do a boring project on campus. So I'm basically back to square one... with minimal industrial experience. What might be becoming a problem by now though, is that I've kind of forgotten all the lingo. Not necessarily that I don't understand things as well, but that I feel I forget the correct technical buzz words... if I were asked lets say "what abilities would you have to offer in the lab?". I wouldn't have a clue where to start with that question. All I'd be thinking is "just give me the job and I'll show you". That wouldn't have been the case with me two years ago when I'd started applying. I had the enthusiasm then.

If I were given a lab based job I would genuinely have the motivation study over any aspects of it associated with my college notes. But unless that happens I have absolutely no motivation to re-study my college notes. At this stage because I've so many opinions on why my masters was stupid and pointless, I feel that if asked a question about it (that I don't have a prepared answer for) I mightn't be able to help but to end up saying something that might sound quite cynical. I was asked the question recently of "what did you learn from your masters?". I thought to myself "I've it done... I've done my penance". And honestly, the things I've learned from it aren't the things the organisers of my masters would expect me to say!

I feel like a life time interviewee and it gets exhausting... making phone calls, copying and pasting cover letters... applying for jobs merely so that I can feel as if I'm making an effort. I recently applied for a laboratory assistant job and they basically told me that it wouldn't be right to give it to me because I am over qualified. So it seems as if you can't win either way.

OMM 0000

Is everyone from your degree and masters having the same problem?

If not, what do you think is the difference between you and them?

RobinPearson

A lot of companies in Dublin offering lab apprenticeship for people without experience and degree. You should have no problem just to walk into those jobs.
Looks like you attitude is biggest issue here and interviewers can see that.
On the other hand - there are few places that would be happy to offer you job in a lab paying 25K a year.

Brregzit

RobinPearson wrote: »

Looks like you attitude is biggest issue here and interviewers can see that.

And I thought the internet was the one place I could vent!

Brregzit

RobinPearson wrote: »

A lot of companies in Dublin offering lab apprenticeship for people without experience and degree. You should have no problem just to walk into those jobs.

Could you name a few please?

dar_cool

Pfizer and BMS are crying out for people in operations, also Shire, MSD, Alexion aswell, they are in start up phase but great to get in at this stage as its great experience

daheff

have you tried talking to the university's student officers? they usually have officers tasked with helping graduates get employment /links to industry

Brregzit

dar_cool wrote: »

Pfizer and BMS are crying out for people in operations, also Shire, MSD, Alexion aswell, they are in start up phase but great to get in at this stage as its great experience

I'll try those. Pfizer and MSD have always seemed impossible to get into. I would be very surprised to even hear back from them.

AntiClimax

RobinPearson wrote: »

Looks like you attitude is biggest issue here and interviewers can see that.

His attitude or his exhaustion?

looksee

I know someone with an MSc and a science PhD (similarish area to OP) and not a sniff of a job - and years of experience, but only at low level jobs, which is why the higher degrees.

In fact the job ops were better with just the primary degree. Now the response is - oh you wouldn't want to stay on at this job, you are over qualified, you've been in academia, you'd be bored here. When the answer is, I would be happy to run a lab, I'd even work my way up to running a lab if you like (in spite of having experience doing just that). What they mean is, (even without expression of expectations) we are not prepared to pay a salary that would reflect your qualifications, we would rather bodge along with someone on minimum wage.

And they (this person) absolutely identified with the OP's description of losing the buzz words, eventually you do get to the stage of saying to yourself 'of course I can do your piddling job, I can see that this this and this need improving in your lab and I could sort it all out, stop asking me stupid questions and just let me show you'. But this is 'attitude'. Can't have that, must keep up the vacuous buzz words and auto-answers that HR are programmed to understand.

Brregzit

dar_cool wrote: »

BMS are crying out for people in operations

I don't know if they're crying out. Nothing suitable for me on their website anyway.

beauf

I think you are finding you are now applying for jobs that are at higher level and the interviews are more demanding.

You should go get some professional interview coaching.

Also getting a job at this level take a bit of effort and perseverance.

Ash.J.Williams

Brregzit wrote: »

After my undergrad I ended up spending a year applying for jobs, did several interviews and ended up with nothing. But now, after having thrown in the towel and done a one year taught masters, it seems as if I'm getting ignored in the same way! In fact just to get the job I have, I've pretty much had to pretend to be another person on one version of my CV! It's funny because all I'm hearing is how the economy is picking up.

With the MSc, the plan for my three month internship fell through and I ended up having to do a boring project on campus. So I'm basically back to square one... with minimal industrial experience. What might be becoming a problem by now though, is that I've kind of forgotten all the lingo. Not necessarily that I don't understand things as well, but that I feel I forget the correct technical buzz words... if I were asked lets say "what abilities would you have to offer in the lab?". I wouldn't have a clue where to start with that question. All I'd be thinking is "just give me the job and I'll show you". That wouldn't have been the case with me two years ago when I'd started applying. I had the enthusiasm then.

If I were given a lab based job I would genuinely have the motivation study over any aspects of it associated with my college notes. But unless that happens I have absolutely no motivation to re-study my college notes. At this stage because I've so many opinions on why my masters was stupid and pointless, I feel that if asked a question about it (that I don't have a prepared answer for) I mightn't be able to help but to end up saying something that might sound quite cynical. I was asked the question recently of "what did you learn from your masters?". I thought to myself "I've it done... I've done my penance". And honestly, the things I've learned from it aren't the things the organisers of my masters would expect me to say!

I feel like a life time interviewee and it gets exhausting... making phone calls, copying and pasting cover letters... applying for jobs merely so that I can feel as if I'm making an effort. I recently applied for a laboratory assistant job and they basically told me that it wouldn't be right to give it to me because I am over qualified. So it seems as if you can't win either way.

Msd?

dar_cool

Brregzit wrote: »

I don't know if they're crying out. Nothing suitable for me on their website anyway.

I work in one of the above companies and its what I hear people saying. They cant keep people as alot of competition for people

Brregzit

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Msd?

I read that as "mad"!

MSD is Merck Sharpe and Domme. Probably spelled that wrong.

Damien360

I work everyday in this industry, travelling to various companies. They are screaming for people right now.

You might need coaching on interview technique. Very often the reason you are being interviewed person to person has nothing to do with your qualifications, as you wouldn't have got the interview without them but they are assessing if you can work in an environment with other people without causing waves. Remember sitting beside the asshole in College ? Well you wouldn't want to work with them.

Currently BMS in Blanchardstown are taking Pfizer and Takeda people from Grangecastle. Shire outside Clonee are just getting going, no lab yet but are hunting. Early Q1 for that. Your MSc is not over qualified but a pHD certainly would be for a lab job.

Biochem is the new buzzword and you should be able to leverage that to get a start. The old "where will you be in 5 years" chestnut should be viewed as a giggle and say with any luck I'll still be here. Questions are standardised to remove any legal issues with unfair interviews but everything outside these core questions should be viewed as a chat and an exploration about you. Please don't say reading as a hobby.

Outside the lab jobs, there are a myriad of companies supplying these Biochem plants who also need someone to sell their products and want a person with a Biochem buzzword attached. MSc. is a big plus here. A strong personality will be required to deal with customers face to face. Or a long neck !

Remember, when you come out of college, you think you know it all. Believe me, you have the theory but that's it. Be good enough to believe you have lots more to learn. If you say this in an interview, have an answer that is simple and not found up your own backside. Be natural.

Best of luck finding a job. The first one is always hard to get.

Brregzit

daheff wrote: »

have you tried talking to the university's student officers? they usually have officers tasked with helping graduates get employment /links to industry

They seem to come across professional and all, but they're the very people who can't seem to be able to offer any effective advice.

arccosh

Give outside Ireland a go to build experience?

I've been through the whole ballache of it all (in a different sector, but similar issue).
You don't realise how small Ireland is until you leave, and they have the pick of the bunch (the unreasonable newly graduated MSc with 10 years experience).
I was surprised how easy it was to get a job outside of it.

Coming back to your particular sector. I know a girl in the UK who ended up there for the same reason and hasn't left. In charge of her own team now, she said she got that position after 3 years, and she was refused numerous jobs in Ireland.

Ash.J.Williams

Brregzit wrote: »

I read that as "mad"!

MSD is Merck Sharpe and Domme. Probably spelled that wrong.

Did you apply,?

Brregzit

arccosh wrote: »

Give outside Ireland a go to build experience?

I've been through the whole ballache of it all (in a different sector, but similar issue).
You don't realise how small Ireland is until you leave, and they have the pick of the bunch (the unreasonable newly graduated MSc with 10 years experience).
I was surprised how easy it was to get a job outside of it.

Coming back to your particular sector. I know a girl in the UK who ended up there for the same reason and hasn't left. In charge of her own team now, she said she got that position after 3 years, and she was refused numerous jobs in Ireland.

I remember trying a few in England with no luck. Retrogenix and Proimmune to name a few.

What country did you end up in?

Brregzit

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Did you apply,?

Several times as far as I know.

Ash.J.Williams

Brregzit wrote: »

Several times as far as I know.

MSD are recruiting 100s of people

DemocAnarchis

Sounds like you could benefit from some interview coaching, and be worth having someone review your CV. Sounds like you're plenty qualified for a lot of jobs out there in the sector, but the interview process is tough. Most biotech/pharma companies interview with a variation of the STAR model / competency based interviews. Basically, you need a couple of examples (stories) that demonstrate a time that you showed X (leadership, decision making, technical insight etc). Good luck!

corkgirl17

I work for a pharma company in cork and see new people being hired who have no industrial experience whatsoever. If you have the education then apply!! They are hiring all the time.

Brregzit

corkgirl17 wrote: »

I work for a pharma company in cork and see new people being hired who have no industrial experience whatsoever. If you have the education then apply!! They are hiring all the time.

What company is that?

NSAman

First job out of Uni I was told I was “over qualified”.

I replied, “well use that to your advantage”... got the job..;)

Brregzit

dar_cool wrote: »

Pfizer and BMS are crying out for people in operations, also Shire, MSD, Alexion aswell, they are in start up phase but great to get in at this stage as its great experience

Don't those interviews (Pfizer and MSD) usually involve several aptitude tests and the several interview rounds??

Brregzit

Damien360 wrote: »

I work everyday in this industry, travelling to various companies. They are screaming for people right now.

So would it be worth applying for this for example? without the 2 years experience?

https://abbott.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/abbottcareers/job/Ireland---Donegal-Town/Scientist_30898427-1

Damien360

Brregzit wrote: »

So would it be worth applying for this for example? without the 2 years experience?

https://abbott.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/abbottcareers/job/Ireland---Donegal-Town/Scientist_30898427-1

I don't see why not. It appears to be process validation. A really good starting point as it is a step above lab QC. Still the same work but you learn a little about the process behind it.

And if you fail to get through, nobody keeps CV's on file. Apply for another one. Abbotts have a few companies scattered around. Clonmel, Sligo town (2 plants, one closing or closed), Longford. If you are just trying to get a start, look for quality control roles. Often labeled as QA. A few companies have QC for finished product and QA for raw materials. Stay out of food business unless you plan staying in it.

Brregzit

Damien360 wrote: »

I don't see why not. It appears to be process validation. A really good starting point as it is a step above lab QC. Still the same work but you learn a little about the process behind it.

And if you fail to get through, nobody keeps CV's on file. Apply for another one. Abbotts have a few companies scattered around. Clonmel, Sligo town (2 plants, one closing or closed), Longford. If you are just trying to get a start, look for quality control roles. Often labeled as QA. A few companies have QC for finished product and QA for raw materials. Stay out of food business unless you plan staying in it.

Thanks,

A question I've wondered about... do they notice if you apply for several? and does it look bad? like you mightn't be sure what you're after?

Anyway I certainly don't have two years experience. I just applied for this one instead, which requires no experience.

https://abbott.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/abbottcareers/job/Ireland---Longford/Diagnostic-Technologist_30896722

I've applied for 4 jobs with Abbotty in total. Two of those since finishing my MSc... and I only got one automated "you have been unsuccessful" email. So, just like any other company, I wouldn't be holding my breath with Abbott.

Damien360

Brregzit wrote: »

Thanks,

A question I've wondered about... do they notice if you apply for several? and does it look bad? like you mightn't be sure what you're after?

Anyway I certainly don't have two years experience. I just applied for this one instead, which requires no experience.

https://abbott.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/abbottcareers/job/Ireland---Longford/Diagnostic-Technologist_30896722

I've applied for 4 jobs with Abbotty in total. Two of those since finishing my MSc... and I only got one automated "you have been unsuccessful" email. So, just like any other company, I wouldn't be holding my breath with Abbott.

That's not a lab job but a process Technican. Manufacturing floor. Never worry about how many applications for the same company. Just don't apply for the same job a few times unless the timeframe is different. Same job description a few months apart is not the same at all so apply away.

Damien360

Don't forget the small independent companies principally in environment sector. The pay is poor compared to pharma but it gives you a start. Give them a year and then jump out. Quick google search for "environmental lab testing ireland" brings up quite a few of the ones I know. Vast majority require no experience but the pay will be very low as a trade off.

engiweirdo

I've a BEng that the shysters in college never tired of shifting on about saying how "in demand" a qualification it is and can't get work in this hole of a city I'm in (Waterford). I see Europe on the horizon in the very near future as I'll be dampened if I'm paying some bloodsucker €2k a month to live in Dublin or Cork. What a country.

ah well

lawred2

RobinPearson wrote: »

A lot of companies in Dublin offering lab apprenticeship for people without experience and degree. You should have no problem just to walk into those jobs.
Looks like you attitude is biggest issue here and interviewers can see that.
On the other hand - there are few places that would be happy to offer you job in a lab paying 25K a year.

Is that supposed to be big money or something?

Horusire

engiweirdo wrote: »

I've a BEng that the shysters in college never tired of shifting on about saying how "in demand" a qualification it is and can't get work in this hole of a city I'm in (Waterford). I see Europe on the horizon in the very near future as I'll be dampened if I'm paying some bloodsucker €2k a month to live in Dublin or Cork. What a country.

BEng in.... currently half way through one and hearing the same constantly.

engiweirdo

Horusire wrote: »

BEng in.... currently half way through one and hearing the same constantly.

Mechanical/Manufacturing. Absolute disaster unless willing to re-locate to some pretty undesirable places crosswise. It's basically Dublin/Cork or fcuk off out of Ireland. Option 3 is probably cheaper and more attractive.

Horusire

engiweirdo wrote: »

Mechanical/Manufacturing. Absolute disaster unless willing to re-locate to some pretty undesirable places crosswise. It's basically Dublin/Cork or fcuk off out of Ireland. Option 3 is probably cheaper and more attractive.

I would have assumed you would have walked into the likes of West pharma,Baush or GSK.. Jesus Christ apparently the job market isn't as buoyant as the lecturers would have you believe. Where is the massive shortage in STEM coming from then ?

ted1

OP if you not even getting to interview stage then your CV is really bad.
Are You tailoring it for each job? Tailoring a cover letter ? Correcting the layout? Spell checks ?


Get professional help

ted1

Horusire wrote: »

I would have assumed you would have walked into the likes of West pharma,Baush or GSK.. Jesus Christ apparently the job market isn't as buoyant as the lecturers would have you believe. Where is the massive shortage in STEM coming from then ?

It’s there alright. I’ve a BENG and a MSc. We take on grads each year starting on about 32k. And Lots leave every year as they get different offers. And we are a large company with excellent prospects.

engiweirdo

Horusire wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

Mechanical/Manufacturing. Absolute disaster unless willing to re-locate to some pretty undesirable places crosswise. It's basically Dublin/Cork or fcuk off out of Ireland. Option 3 is probably cheaper and more attractive.

I would have assumed you would have walked into the likes of West pharma,Baush or GSK.. Jesus Christ apparently the job market isn't as buoyant as the lecturers would have you believe. Where is the massive shortage in STEM coming from then ?

West to the best of my knowledge have never hired a grad in Waterford, want Masters + experience, Bausch & Lomb havent been hiring now in years and even then mostly at operator level, lot of smoke and bluster with these crowds that rarely translates into actual work. The great STEM scam. There is no shortage, companies just want more competition and lower wages. Its a joke.

UCD GroupThink

Damien360 wrote: »

Don't forget the small independent companies principally in environment sector. The pay is poor compared to pharma but it gives you a start. Give them a year and then jump out. Quick google search for "environmental lab testing ireland" brings up quite a few of the ones I know. Vast majority require no experience but the pay will be very low as a trade off.

Would this be an example of such a job?

https://ie.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=c402553e19eabfee&q=biologics,+microbiology+&l=Cork&tk=1cth6br1j38v7803&from=ja&alid=5bfe9de245ceb7cda2da0216&utm_source=jobseeker_emails&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=job_alerts&rgtk=1cth6br1j38v7803

TheIrishGrover

I don't know the field at all but others here seem to believe that your industry is short-staffed so if you are not even getting interviews it might be worth looking at your CV:

• How relevant is it to the place you are applying for? You may have to tweak it per company you are applying for. Obviously not lie but emphasize the exact qualifications/experience you have as it relates to the position you are applying for.
• Is it in the currently preferred style/format? I mean how long is it? From experience of the other side it should be two pages with maybe a few lines of referees on page three. Anything more and you don't bother because, more often than not, it's waffle. Just padding.
• While you may get exasperated by certain questions like "What do you think you learned from your masters" remember that people are looking to see what makes them choose you over someone else. Even if your answer was along the lines of "Well, as well as a more in-depth knowledge of XYZ, I decided to pursue my masters as I believe this would offer more to potential employers and I am a firm believer in upskilling and learning as required". You are not saying a huge amount but at least your potential employer knows that you are open to further training/education etc.
• Remember, if you are being interviewed they do see something they like in your CV so it might be also worth looking into your interview techniques.

Damien360

UCD GroupThink wrote: »

Would this be an example of such a job?

https://ie.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=c402553e19eabfee&q=biologics,+microbiology+&l=Cork&tk=1cth6br1j38v7803&from=ja&alid=5bfe9de245ceb7cda2da0216&utm_source=jobseeker_emails&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=job_alerts&rgtk=1cth6br1j38v7803

That's exactly the kind of place. Not a bad company at all but pay is low. Dungarvan.

Don't be afraid to look at public jobs also. The pay is low to begin (25-28k) but the experience is good. I just noticed your username is UCD so if you look across the campus at Medical Bureau of Road Safety on the site not far from the Conway building, they are looking for people with zero experience. They seem to have a preference for UCD graduates. Find out how to apply.....tonight. Put the beer away and do some research.

For someone with your background in Science, you seem to as struggle to identify the roles. Does UCD have a careers officer (I bet they do), that you can approach with regard to your CV and interview technique.

What are your salary expectations ? Mid 25k for zero experience is about right for the industry. The only way to increase that is by moving every 2-3 years with your experience. It takes a long time to build that experience. Your degree/masters only opens the door to jobs others cannot apply for but it is not a ticket to riches.

Martina1991

I may have missed this but what was your Undergrad degree in OP?

Did you do any placement or solo projects? Relevant experience might be more impressive on a CV than what MSc you did.

Damien360

A quick Google of UCD directory popped this up

Have you talked to these. Get them to look at your CV and expect criticism and welcome it.

I just noticed OP is banned and I am not replying to them here. Is UCD person a rereg ?

http://www.ucd.ie/careers/careers/students/[URL][/url]

UCD GroupThink

Damien360 wrote: »

A quick Google of UCD directory popped this up

Have you talked to these. Get them to look at your CV and expect criticism and welcome it.

I just noticed OP is banned and I am not replying to them here. Is UCD a person?

Could I ask you what PQ experience is? I see it on a few Eurofins job specs from time to time. I googled it before and seemed to get nothing.

Thank you

minikin

Aim for a lower level job in a company you want to work for, get it, do it for six months, demonstrate that you’ve the right attitude and climb the ladder internally.

finisklin

UCD GroupThink wrote: »

Could I ask you what PQ experience is? I see it on a few Eurofins job specs from time to time. I googled it before and seemed to get nothing.

PQ = Post Qualification Experience

Women without Makeup

engiweirdo wrote: »

The great STEM scam. There is no shortage, companies just want more competition and lower wages.

What's that?

Women without Makeup

Brregzit wrote: »

Could you name a few please?

No he can't!