Dublin Bus Connects Blanchardstown->City

cgcsb

Well not going to continue repeating myself. I'll just say that it's not the case that roundabouts are 'not safe', it's just that signalled junctions are safer. There are degrees of safety it's not a binary thing. Anyway the bus connects design isn't changing at this point and it'll certainly slash journey times by a large % at peak times and provide a more reliable service for Blanch.

Flinty997

There one thing to argue for increasing throughput for the bus. But these plans needless choke other traffic by removing filter lanes and adding more signals.

That could have taken some land form phoenix park race course to widen the roundabout and put in bus lanes and segrated cycling lanes.

Feels like they thought that's too much hassle and planning. Just ignore car traffic throughput (especially off peak) and make it a crossroads. For a fraction of the cost and effort.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187525#Comment_119187525

That would be spending money to accommodate car traffic which is counter productive to the current policy of reducing car traffic.

Flinty997

Well it would also segrate cyclists properly. But we don't do that properly either.

Is there any provision for cycle lane from the roundabout into the park from this new junction? Or will they still be squeezed in the gate and on the road.

ultraviolence

Yes because all those extra traffic lights are going to cut journey times. You do understand that a lot of these roads are one lane when coming towards the roundabout. All these buses will be sitting in queues.

Are you still not going to acknowledge that the blakestown roundabout already has pedestrian crossing points? I would like to know why blakestown roundabout is being labelled not safe while the ashtown roundabout is okay? What exactly is so difficult? If you want to cross the road, press the traffic light button or if traffic is light cross the road. People are capable of doing that. Roundabouts are safe .

When the irish rail closures happen and the castleknock bridge also being closed, the council will need to reinstall the 2 roundabouts as the diswellstown road and blanchardstown road south are going to be under severe pressure.

It does not matter if the busconnects design will not change. Residents can ask the county council to reinstall the roundabouts. The council is in charge of the local road network, not the NTA. The council will be listening to residents and local politicans as we know whats best for the road network. The Blakestown and clonsilla roundabout perform well. No need for removal at all.

Busconnects originally wanted to keep the blakestown roundabout and that says it all. The roundabout can remain or be reinstalled as it wont have any impact on the bus corridor.

As i said before, if its a safety issue, busconnects would have not proposed on keeping the blakestown roundabout in the beginning. It all went down to what residents associations wanted what. Blakestown roundabout had no campaign and if it did it was no where near as loud as the navan road one.

Flinty997

I doubt think people mind giving buses priority of it's not done an inconsistent and poorly thought out way.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187971#Comment_119187971

With respect to current roundabouts having lights, I frequently cross Millennium Roundabout, using the pedestrian/bicycle lights between Millennium Park and Power City. Thankfully it is a single leg crossing unlike 2 of the other sides. I timed it recently. I takes 1 minute for the lights to change for pedestrians. As I am cycling, 1 minute is quite a distance for me. Even for a pedestrian 1 minute is about 100m. With a signalised junction I might not have to wait. With pedestrian lights I always have to wait.

Furthermore, going back to 100m in 1 minute for pedestrians, as most pedestrian crossings are away from the roundabout, you could easily be adding 2 minutes to the pedestrian journey as they move away from the junction to the pedestrian crossing and then back again.

The change away from roundabouts is finally moving away from a car centric design (though I don't know why they are retained in some instances) which we must do to encourage active travel. I hope that some that currently drive everywhere will see that walking or cycling is a viable, pleasant and safe alternative.

You mention the Castleknock Bridge closing. Is that the one at Castleknock train station? That's news to me.

Flinty997

I assume he meant Coolmine crossing/Bridge and Clonsilla bridge.

Traffic will get also get worse simply due to Kellystown being designed to exit into a known congested black spot. Then all the other new housing into roads with less capacity due to signals and lane reduction due to buses etc.

People will have to find more creative ways to avoid being traffic. Going forward. Driving is going to get harder. More People into finite resources.

Bus connects are one such solution people will have to embrace.

ultraviolence

No, i am talking about the castleknock bridge at castleknock station. This bridge will need to be closed (as its too low? i think that was the reason) to allow irish rail to carry out their works. I dont have any other information as thats what i heard when watching a council meeting. Once irish rail submit their planning application maybe more information will arise. It will open up once irish rail is finished.. dont know how long as theres no information yet. If i turn out to be wrong then i stand corrected but i am pretty sure thats what i heard from the council.

If castleknock bridge is to close, that will bring all vehicular traffic through carpenterstown onto the diswellstown road (since theres no replacement at coolmine) which will then have to wait at the new traffic light junction at clonsilla roundabout.

The crossing points at blakestown roundabout and clonsilla roundabout are near the roundabout. If you dont want to wait for the green man you can cross the road since traffic is usally light - often what i do at all roundabouts that i encounter

Not seeing how roundabouts impact on active travel as people have been walking and continue to walk. Carpenterstown is full of roundabouts and that does not stop people from walking. People of all ages seem capable of looking before crossing the road. Not seeing the issue. If you dont want to cross at a roundabout then cross before approaching the roundabout.

I dont think theres any change happening where roundabouts are all being removed.

Roundabouts are often more useful than traffic lights and thats why we currently have roundabouts on some of our roads.

Roundabout at the kellystown link road. and more planned for the ongar barnhill road (i cant find any plans published about the ongar/barnhill rd. irish rail have a proposed drawing but nothing from the council) The engineers are of the opinion that a roundabout here is more efficient than a traffic light junction. This is a suburban area and not the city centre so its basically local traffic and local footfall.

I dont think anyone has a problem with the bus corridor. Just keep the blakestown roundabout and thats it. Thats the only 'massive' change to the area. Or keep the the left turn lane from blakestown and keep the traffic lights. Other than that the bus corridor is nearly the same as what we have now so theres not any huge differences.

LXFlyer

Granard Bridge (the bridge on Castleknock Road) is identified as requiring the bridge deck to be lifted to facilitate the electrification.

There would have be a temporary road closure to facilitate that, but as a general comment bridge lifts are usually completed in a relatively short period of time.

It certainly would not be a long term road closure.

Flinty997

Carpenterstown is full of poorly designed roundabouts. There aren't two the same in terms of how cyclists are handled.

I especially like how they spend a fortune creating a bus lane only for to bottleneck all traffic to one lane in two places.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3788987,-6.3718832,3a,75y,288.26h,74.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sonEJhfjmJ2EadsF2JA0_SQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

ultraviolence

They submitted the corridor to ABP and i had a quick look to see if anything changed... some main points that i noticed.

-Bus lanes removed on mulhuddart interchange bridge. Bus lanes were proposed in the original plan.

-Bus lane removed on blanchardstown road south coming from blakestown roundabout towards mulhuddart interchange. This bus lane as of now is kind of pointless so it makes sense to do so. I think this also is to make up for the removal of blakestown roundabout and the removal of the left turn lane from blakestown way.

-New left turn slip lane on n3 ramp from old navan road

-Removal of left turn slip lane from old navan road onto mulhuddart interchange.

-Blakestown and ashtown roundabout being removed :( Roundabouts in shopping centre are still being removed.

-New left turn slip lane from blanch road south mulhuddart side entering the shopping centre. I think this is to make up for the removal of blakestown roundabout but this lane is going to be blocked by those going straight ahead and from the image it looks quite short and the chances of it being blocked are high.

-Extra left turn lane in the shopping centre with a separate right turn lane. The mcdonalds roundabout area.

-Phoenix park racecourse right turn still going ahead and right turn from navan road into phoenix park racecourse.

-Left turn lane from navan road onto auburn avenue being removed. Those wanting to turn left now have to wait at traffic lights.

-New junction layout at ashtown gate. Those coming from castleknock road can only go straight onto ashtown roundabout. You cant turn into ashtown gate or onto blackhorse avenue. The lane is shaped towards the left forcing those from castleknock road to go to ashtown.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268256#Comment_119268256

Where did you see all this? Wouldn't mind having a look at drawings etc.

cgcsb

It's on blanchardstownscheme.ie

I was more focused on the city centre end. It seems they've omitted the cycle lane on the north side of the North Circular road for some reason. And put in traffic calming in cabra and put in a really strange new left hand turn from the North circular road to the old cabra Road at St Peters Church. They've missed an opportunity to eliminate the phibsboro bottleneck. But I suppose that's going to come with orbital corridors

VonLuck

I'm really surprised at the Ashtown roundabout. I guess this scheme is solely focused on safety as opposed to the most efficient road arrangement? Seems like there will be huge delays at that junction!

Also the Ashtown Gate junction, whilst currently very dangerous, is going to become a mess of crossings and road markings! Hopefully it works, but christ there's a lot going on in the new layout.

ultraviolence

According to them the removal of ashtown roundabout is the reason for the introduction of right turns to and from phoenix park racecourse as since the roundabout is being removed you cant perform a uturn anymore to get into phoenix park racecourse.

There will be queues at those areas. im looking at ashtown roundabout and thinking why not introduce a yellow flashing light or yield sign for those turning from navan road onto castleknock road and for those turning from navan road parkway into ashtown etc.

Left turn lane from blakestown way gone is a huge loss.

Interested in seeing how many vehicles are allowed to pass on a green light.

Plenty of space to widen castleknock road on the side from ashtown gate to ashtown roundabout. If the wall is not a protected structure you can knock it down and add a footpath, left turn yield lane (same thing they are introducing on blanch rd south) onto navan road and a lane for those going straight on and a lane for those turning onto navan road.... maybe something for the council to consider in the future.

I like how they removed the bus lane on blanch road south which will allow people to undertake those turning right (which will become a popular entrance to avoid all the traffic lights in the shopping centre) into the new entrance to the shopping centre. Also the only bus stop (4323) on that road is being removed with no replacement and maybe thats another reason for the removal of the bus lane.

I know busconnects only deals with the areas where the corridor is but they should also consider removing the bus lanes all along blanchardstown road north just like what they are doing to blanch road south.. had a look at a random bus stop on that road and the buses serving that road today are arriving at 14:21, 16:21, 18:21 and 3 more arrivals. Or reduce the bus lane time. The times are 7-7 mon-sat. Lane should be returned to general traffic as that bus lane is sitting empty. If that bus lane can handle sharing with general traffic on a sunday then it can handle sharing it on a saturday as well.

The left turn from nrth circular road onto cabra road is necessary i think as cabra road is the main route into the inner city areas. The city centre part is confusing to comprehend but you cant go from navan road onto old cabra road, prussia street stoneybatter etc. Cabra road is the replacement. So left turning onto cabra road seems necessary.

It would be ideal to construct the bus corridor at the same time with the n3/clonee upgrade which seems to be moving along quite quickly with a preferred route chosen. Get the disruptions on the n3 over and done with at the same time as both projects link up with each other.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270956#Comment_119270956

You need to bear in mind that the infrastructure is being designed with the revised network in mind rather than the current one.

Blanchardstown Road North will have far more buses on it when the new network is implemented in the area.

https://busconnects.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/blanchardstown-area-map.pdf

The L61 will be every 15 minutes in both directions and will be the main link with Ballycoolin Business Park, and the L62 every 15-30 minutes.

The 35 will also use part of it every 15-20 minutes.

ultraviolence

Yes correct, forgot to look at the new bus map when mentioning blanch road north.

After it passes corduff, the section of blanch road north is to be used by 2 routes and when it reaches the roundabout all exits lead to single lane roads. I think a rush hour bus lane would be a better use than an all day bus lane but thats not up to me. Whoever sets the bus lane times thinks a 7-7 bus lane is needed now.

The new bus routes are not coming anytime soon so theres no harm reducing the bus lane time to allow people to use it now.

Whatever reason was for the removal of bus lanes on blanch road south and the mulhuddart bridge can probably apply to blanch road north. Or even a time reduction would be good.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271269#Comment_119271269

I suspect few if any buses will use Blanchardstown Road South northbound between Blakestown and the N3 interchange, but rather will exit the centre using the bus only exit by the Crowne Plaza, hence the bus lane won't be required.

FYI the local network changes are due to happen in August 2024.

raheny red

A few site notices put up along Mill Street the past couple of days. Looks like they want to acquire some land along there. Buses to turn off at the Black Wolf to Connolly hospital maybe?!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298083#Comment_119298083

No they plan on installing bus stops on the Blanchardstown by-pass at the bridge over Mill Road, with ramp and step access to the stops from Mill Road.

The plans can all be seen here: https://blanchardstownscheme.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2022/06/Volume-1-General-Arrangement-Drawings-1.pdf

Mill Road is on map number 10 - it's a large pdf FYI.

raheny red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298416#Comment_119298416

Awh gotcha. The images at the site notice make sense now. I couldn't make head nor tail of them. Thanks for that.

StoptheClocks

The diagram on here https://blanchardstownscheme.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2022/06/Volume-1-General-Arrangement-Drawings-1.pdf has the ashtown roundabout getting turned into an interchange. It was decided to keep it as a roundabout 2 years ago. tweeted here https://twitter.com/rodericogorman/status/1235468975443607552

What is the final plans?

LXFlyer

The final plans are the ones submitted to An Bord Pleanála at https://blanchardstownscheme.ie

If you’re not happy you need to make a submission to ABP but it does cost money to do so.

mackerski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270956#Comment_119270956

This solution for access to the racecourse makes no sense to me. The enormous grade-separated junction that today serves only the railway station has stubs that would provide really good access between the racecourse and the Navan Road. Distances travelled would be longer by car, but the removal of traffic signals would surely make this a win.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325631#Comment_119325631

Seems like over engineering alright

Codpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325631#Comment_119325631

Opening up that end at the railway station junction is already approved as part of planning permission that was granted a few years back - just hasn't been implemented yet. Not being done at the expense of the other entrance, so likely will end up with both at some point in the future.

mackerski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373018#Comment_119373018

My point is that having both entrances is a less satisfactory outcome. Everybody, including the residents, needs to deal with an extra set of signals and conflicting traffic where there’s no need.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325631#Comment_119325631

It will serve Edmund Rice secondary school and all the houses at that western end of the racecourse.

If it wasn't built it would have meant lights on the dual carriageway for people to drive to/from the train station.

mackerski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119374627#Comment_119374627

I know what the grade-separated junction is for. What I don't understand is why they would build a second junction with signals on the city end of the complex. I get that the journeys are shorter, but the signals will mean all journeys take longer.