Dublin Bus Connects Blanchardstown->City

ozmo

Anyone look at the changes and see how it affects D15?

https://busconnects.ie/media/1351/busconnects-cbc5-blanchardstown-to-city-centre-final-for-web-med-res.pdf

Haven’t looked in great detail yet -
But so far one issue that sticks out for me is the stopping of turning right at end of Navan Road (by car) - where Iceland is - thats my favorite way to get to the quays and town

Zaph

Forget about getting even that far, it's going to make getting to Stoneybatter and Smithfield a right pain in the arse.

ozmo

Absolutely - forgot to mention to anyone else reading - it’s page 65 of that document for the map in question. Hidden? on the second last page....

For the sake of 100 feet of bus corridor they are cutting off all direct access to that part of town...

AlanG

There is a lot of good in the document - access to N3 bus stops at mill road will mean a lot to people in waterville and blanchardstown village. the details of where the loop route to replace the 39 around the village will go is still to be revised but at least it appears the express buses will take the slip road for the hospital and leave more scope for transfer.

The routes around the center are disappointing - it would have been good to have a more dedicated and shorter bus route built. Also the size of the interchange and cycle parking seems quite small for the number of routes going through the center.

The Prussia street and old cabra road changes do raise a lot of issues and I think people living along Aughram St and blackhorse avenue will be up in arms with the extra traffic going their way. It will certainly cut of a large part of the city form the navan road area. There is certainly plenty of scope to keep the old cabra road two way plus bus lane if they CPO a few meters of garden.

AlanG

Also interesting that they are looking at getting rid of the roundabout at the halfway house. Hard to know what the impact of that will be.

ozmo

AlanG wrote: »

Also interesting that they are looking at getting rid of the roundabout at the halfway house. Hard to know what the impact of that will be.

aww - didn't see that - means More delays in non-peak times as we have to wait for lights... Its also a loss of the only bit of colour on that otherwise long grey road with the flowers and plants display Fingal put on each year.

Phil.x

I dont want to even open that link as i know from previous busconnects info that the people in blanch and the surrounds are getting shafted by public transport and now roads.

Zaph

AlanG wrote: »

Also interesting that they are looking at getting rid of the roundabout at the halfway house. Hard to know what the impact of that will be.

So conceivably you could end up stopped at lights where the roundabout is and then again at the other set 100 yards up the road. I can't see how that will help anybody.

Gavin "shels"

Zaph wrote: »

So conceivably you could end up stopped at lights where the roundabout is and then again at the other set 100 yards up the road. I can't see how that will help anybody.

Why the roundabout wasn't just bulldozed and lights put in there along with a foot bridge where the current lights are for the buses. etc... is beyond me.... Shoddy forward thinking.

Cathmandooo

Zaph wrote: »

So conceivably you could end up stopped at lights where the roundabout is and then again at the other set 100 yards up the road. I can't see how that will help anybody.

What's worse is they look to be opening up the dual carriageway centre at the Phoenix Park Racecourse so that drivers can get out of there and turn right towards the city centre, you'll have a set of lights there.

Then you have your new set of lights at the Halfway House. Then a set of lights at the Kempton Estate. It looks on the map that there will be a new pedestrian crossing at the Darling Estate which is ridiculously close to the pedestrian crossing at the Kempton Estate. Then up to the existing lights into Ashtown Grove.

That's 1 km stretch of road with 5 sets of lights to get through and loads further up the road too. Seems excessive.

AlanG

Zaph wrote: »

So conceivably you could end up stopped at lights where the roundabout is and then again at the other set 100 yards up the road. I can't see how that will help anybody.

They actually have proposed to get rid of the median at the exits of the industrial park and racecourse apartments on this stretch and have lanes for turning across the traffic so this will require even longer wait times at lights and more danger with crossing traffic.
I guess with no roundabout at the halfway people coming out of the industrial park will have no easy way of heading back out towards the M50 unless they allow U turns at the halfway.

daymobrew

AlanG wrote: »

They actually have proposed to get rid of the median at the exits of the industrial park and racecourse apartments on this stretch and have lanes for turning across the traffic so this will require even longer wait times at lights and more danger with crossing traffic.
I guess with no roundabout at the halfway people coming out of the industrial park will have no easy way of heading back out towards the M50 unless they allow U turns at the halfway.

Page 44 seems to show the ability to turn right and left out of the industrial estate. Similar from Phoenix Park Racecourse.

TheChrisD

AlanG wrote: »

The routes around the center are disappointing - it would have been good to have a more dedicated and shorter bus route built. Also the size of the interchange and cycle parking seems quite small for the number of routes going through the center.

The suggestions for the centre itself look okay, but it would be a lot easier if the entire square of the centre as a whole was turned into one-way only.

As for routing it to the gigantic mess that is the Snugborough Road junction... orbital facepalm cannon required. Why they aren't making use of the slip-way next to the Crowne Plaza is baffling.

Zaph wrote: »

Forget about getting even that far, it's going to make getting to Stoneybatter and Smithfield a right pain in the arse.

Surely it's not that bad, you just need to go down Blackhorse Avenue and Aughrim Street instead of Old Cabra/Prussia?

Caranica

TheChrisD wrote: »

Surely it's not that bad, you just need to go down Blackhorse Avenue and Aughrim Street instead of Old Cabra/Prussia?

Those roads are already at capacity especially at rush hours.

ozmo

TheChrisD wrote: »

Surely it's not that bad, you just need to go down Blackhorse Avenue and Aughrim Street instead of Old Cabra/Prussia?

Uggh- Isn’t that the narrow backroad with all those speedramps...
It’s a huge step down from the Navan Road we have right now..

Dr_Colossus

ozmo wrote: »

Uggh- Isn’t that the narrow backroad with all those speedramps...
It’s a huge step down from the Navan Road we have right now..

Yes but I'd nearly prefer it to the Navan Rd which has an appalling road surface with ruts, sunken manholes and terribly repaired potholes. Still not as bad as further in and the North Circular Road though, the surface down along the Matter in particular is abysmal.

cgcsb

Caranica wrote: »

Those roads are already at capacity especially at rush hours.

Here's a thought..get the bus? Will be much quicker. Making buses quicker than driving is the whole point of bus connects.

Caranica

cgcsb wrote: »

Here's a thought..get the bus? Will be much quicker. Making buses quicker than driving is the whole point of bus connects.

Not practicable for lots of people. So few people just go D15-City Centre-D15

OldMrBrennan83

cgcsb wrote: »

Here's a thought..get the bus? Will be much quicker. Making buses quicker than driving is the whole point of bus connects.

Then you'd be on a bus though. Many people don't want to be.

cgcsb

Patww79 wrote: »

Then you'd be on a bus though. Many people don't want to be.

So then they can queue with all the cars and waste a few hours

cgcsb

The scheme is supposed to be going to ABP this month, will keep an eye out for it.

blanchardstownscheme.ie

The Clongriffen and Blackrock/Belfield schemes are already in.

StoptheClocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/108634114#Comment_108634114

I don't see how traffic lights would be better than the current roundabout. The Ashtown level crossing is getting an underpass, so I'd expect traffic to increase.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/108640870#Comment_108640870

I don't understand why they are adding this. The racecourse is getting linked up to the fly-over at the parkway train station. So traffic can go left and right there.

ultraviolence

Agree - Removing the Ashtown Roundabout is a terrible idea. Buses and all other vehicles can currently enter the roundabout freely and now they want to change that by installing traffic lights? A few metres up the road you encounter traffic lights at kempton. Strange as busconnects aims are to speed up journey times while also installing more traffic light junctions which then leads to longer queue of vehicles waiting. How does that benefit anyone,

In the last bus corridor update it says the ashtown roundabout is staying... hope it does. Not only does it help the free flow of traffic, the roundabout is very iconic. I cant imagine that junction with no roundabout.

They are also removing the blakestown roundabout which again, is a bad idea and makes no sense at all. I wonder what the NTA is going to say when their 39a buses are sitting in traffic as the roundabout is removed. The left turn lane from blakestown way is also being removed so anyone that wants to turn left towards the mulhuddart interchange will now have to wait at traffic lights. Why not keep the left turn lane freeing up space for those going towards the shopping centre? Its like they did that on purpose to frustrate people, as they are keeping the left turn lane from blanch road south that enters the shopping centre but its being turned into a bus lane... no reason why the left turn lane from blakestown has to go. At the beginning they wanted to keep the blakestown roundabout ? What happened ?

They are removing all the roundabouts in the blanchardstown centre going towards the snugborough interchange and turning them into traffic lights as well. 3 roundabouts in total being removed in the shopping centre according to the bus corridor that they published sometime ago.

Not busconnects related but DART West also proposes removing the clonsilla roundabout and installing a traffic light junction. So that means Blanchardstown Road south is getting an addition of 2 traffic light junctions. The only roundabout remaining on that road will be the one at power city - millenium roundabout. This will definitely 'speed' up bus journey times lol.... so now if take the 37 bus, currently it can fly by the blakestown and clonsilla roundabout but after the removal, i have to sit waiting at traffic lights... thats great.

Diswellstown road is used a lot, the last thing it needs is the clonsilla roundabout being removed. Tailbacks all the way down on both sides. I would love to know how long the traffic light will stay green and how many vehicles can get through.

If congestion arises (which it will), the council should reinstall the roundabout as its their roads. Hopefully common sense prevails.

Has fingal county council made any comments about this..they know the area more than the nta and they installed these roundabouts for a reason. Christmas season and traffic light junctions.... going to be interesting to see the results if this is to continue.

A grade separated junction at auburn avenue/dunsink lane/n3 is needed. Traffic light system there needs removing. No plans for that though. Still, makes sense to work on that when the corridor construction begins to avoid disruption again. Buses pick up speed and then have to wait for a green light.. something needs to be done there.

cgcsb

Roundabouts aren't ped or bike friendly. They're keeping Ashtown and the notorious Walkinstown roundabout with some specific work around for peds and cyclists. Adding traffic lights might add a few seconds to bus journeys but it's a small trade off for better bike and ped facilities. The bus connects scheme overall slashes bus journey times dramatically, so 2 or 3 additional lights aren't a big problem.

On the blanch route, the most major peak hour delays are on the old cabra road and Prussia St, you can be waiting 25 mins to get from Navan Road to Stoneybatter and that bottleneck will be completely removed

ultraviolence

So they are keeping ashtown roundabout but removing blakestown roundabout ? Where is the sense in that? The blakestown roundabout is smaller than both of the roundabouts you listed so its definitely not a safety issue. Residents on the navan road campaigned for the roundabout to stay so maybe thats why its staying. (dont know the reason for walkinstown) I dont think anyone campaigned for the blakestown roundabout to stay but when its gone hopefully there will be a campaign to reinstall it.

Roundabouts are pedestrian friendly. The blakestown roundabout already has traffic lights - 2 sets of traffic lights. Roundabouts are all over the blanchardstown area and people can cross them with no hassle. Most roundabouts here have traffic lights nearby anyway so what is the problem. I dont see any issue with roundabouts. Converting every single roundabout into a traffic light junction is not the way to go.

Whenever i have had to cross the ashtown roundabout i did so by either going to the traffic lights at kempton or crossing the road when traffic is light/stopped at kempton.

As i mentioned above, the 37 bus can freely pass the clonsilla and blakestown roundabout but now it has to wait at traffic lights? How does that speed up the journey. By the time the green light shows the 37 bus would have entered carpenterstown at that stage if the roundabout was to remain.

Also forgot to mention above but i also agree that it is not necessary to introduce a right turn from phoenix park racecourse when those who want to turn right can do so by going to the parkway overbridge... any reason to introduce more traffic lights.

All these new traffic lights are not necessary and when you add that to the current traffic lights and the snugborough interchange... does not make sense.

The council needs to step in regarding the blakestown roundabout.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119184983#Comment_119184983

Well there was an ecological argument for keeping the Ashtown Roundabout, removal of trees etc. but I suppose it was just a fight the NTA didn't want so they dropped it from bus connects. If the residents took a judicial review against the route on ecological grounds, they'd likely have a legitimate case.

Walkinstown is such a complex junction I expect the NTA didn't want the hassle of removing it so they came up with a complex system of ped and bike crossings.

It's a flat fact that signalised junctions are better for peds and cyclists than roundabouts. Ped crossings are often far from the pedestrian desire line and they are lethal to cycle on in any case.

ultraviolence

The blakestown and clonsilla roundabout have traffic lights nearby where footfall occurs the most yet they are still being removed while other roundabouts in dublin are staying. Even in shankill roundabouts are staying after a local campaign. Looks like the only roundabouts being removed are those that had no campaign against such proposals.

The ashtown roundabout is staying while receiving traffic lights but yet blakestown/clonsilla are being removed while these roundabouts currently have traffic lights nearby?

Well you can say roundabouts are unsafe and thats your opinion but i totally disagree. I have crossed and continue to cross roundabouts in my area and have no struggle with it. Since roundabouts allow free flowing traffic, it reduces build up and tailbacks on the road meaning i can cross without needing to press a traffic light.

If roundabouts were not safe then all roundabouts in dublin would be removed and no new roundabouts being constructed.

New roundabouts are currently planned for the kellystown link road and ongar barnhill road and elsewhere in dublin such as the glenamuck distributor road. If roundabouts were not safe and offer no benefits then why are councils still installing them?

I feel more comfortable and safe crossing a roundabout than a junction.

When on the bus i would prefer to continue on with my journey via the roundabout instead of waiting at traffic lights.

There are trees and other plants on the blakestown roundabout. The ecological impact reasoning can also be used here.

The pedestrian crossing is not far at blakestown or clonsilla. These pedestrian crossings are near the roundabout.

If the blakestown roundabout is being removed why are they also taking away the left turn lane from blakestown while keeping the same left turn lane entering the shopping centre on the opposite side?

Flinty997

There is no consistency to these designs I find.

cgcsb

I feel like you're just repeating yourself with the roundabout thing. It's not just my opinion that singalised junctions are safer it's an established fact, you read about it in DMURs or any TII design manual. The safety issue presented by roundabouts in urban areas is more impactful on cyclists than pedestrians, try taking the third exit on the Ashtown roundabout on a bike as it is currently, lethal and certainly not suitable for a child, infirm or elderly cyclist. For pedestrians it's more a matter of convenience and journey time. Crossings have to be further from the desire line compared to a signalised junction crossings which also encourages people to cross at unsafe locations.

ultraviolence

And yet roundabouts are staying in some areas while new ones are being installed all around dublin?

How many times do i need to say that there is already 2 crossing points where footfall occurs the most at the blakestown and clonsilla roundabout. These crossings are near the roundabout. Why are these roundabouts being removed? Pedestrians can already cross here..

If its an established fact that roundabouts are 'not safe' then why are other roundabouts remaining in other parts of dublin? Why not remove ashtown, shankill and others. Walkinstown is much busier than blakestown roundabout and has more exits.

I dont know what else to say here. I have crossed roads at roundabouts as a child and continue crossing these same roundabouts right now till this day.

New roads being planned/constructed are coming with roundabouts. Kellystown link road has a roundabout linking up the ongar barnhill road. The road network needs roundabouts to relieve and prevent congestion as it already does. Putting traffic lights everywhere will bring areas to a gridlock.

These roundabouts are necessary. With the irish rail closures across the area and the constant traffic from construction vehicles which will increase when houses begin to be built in barnhill and kellystown, the local road network is going to be put under more pressure. Removing roundabouts is not the right option.

Saying roundabouts are not safe is not a reason why these are being removed as busconnects are keeping roundabouts in other areas. Most roundabouts here already have pedestrian crossings nearby.

I dont have anything other to say but as i said above, if congestion arises, hopefully the council considers re-installing these necessary roundabouts just as other parts of dublin are keeping theirs.

I hope the buses enjoy sitting in queues waiting for a green light as i doubt anything is going to change with this mess of a proposal.

Flinty997

The problem is there is no distinction made between a high volume junction and a low volume junction.

Ashtown Roundabout is main arterial road. Its not any old junction.

An arterial road or arterial thoroughfare is a high-capacity urban road that sits below freeways/motorways on the road hierarchy in terms of traffic flow and speed.

If it was done properly cyclists and pedestrians would have a entirely segregated way around or over this junction.

But as usual they crammed everything into a tiny space, where everything and every solution is compromised.