Insulated plasterboard fitting

Buford T Justice

Looking to renovate my sitting room in the new year. It's a semi d ex council house from the 70s, with dot & dab plasterboard walls & a timber ceiling (on lats over original plasterboard ceiling.

Walls are in poor shape so I was thinking of re-doing them so I'd be able to paint them when finished.

Two of the walls are external to the property and the other two are internal walls.

My idea is to pull out all of the existing slab from the walls and chip off the dab that's there. For the two external walls I was thinking of using 37.5mm insulated plasterboard and standard slab on the other two walls. I can then joint and tape all of it, and replace the door frame while I'm at it since its in shite

For the Ceiling, I was thinking of pulling down the timber that's there and putting slab straight up on the lats that are already there.

What's the best way to fix the slab, is it dot & dab again or the mushroom head fixings?

What's the best way to deal with sockets with the insulated plasterboard?

Any advice appreciated.

listermint

Im a big fan of the latest tech of Insulated plasterboard foam tbh. Its quick and holds just as strong as dab. Its taken off on the continent but still not prolific here.

For the normal board id use that, for the insulated stuff you will need that and also mushroom fittings.

For the electrical stuff you will need to get someone qualified to remove the fixings and then you can cut out the holes before placing the board. I cut out holes after placing the board with a pad saw but its not for everyone.

Calahonda52

listermint wrote: »

Im a big fan of the latest tech of Insulated plasterboard foam tbh. Its quick and holds just as strong as dab. Its taken off on the continent but still not prolific here.

For the normal board id use that, for the insulated stuff you will need that and also mushroom fittings.

For the electrical stuff you will need to get someone qualified to remove the fixings and then you can cut out the holes before placing the board. I cut out holes after placing the board with a pad saw but its not for everyone.

You need to pay attention to the fire regs her with the foam....
Also some metal mushroom fixings needed for same reason

Lumen

Anyone used woodfibre internal insulation?

This looks interesting. It's glued to the wall and then rendered.

Aside from the material cost of the panel system (looks easy enough to DIY), would internal lime render be more expensive to get done professionally than regular sand cement?

http://www.pavatex.com/en/application/wall/internal-wall-insulation/

listermint

Calahonda52 wrote: »

You need to pay attention to the fire regs her with the foam....
Also some metal mushroom fixings needed for same reason

I don't believe there is regulations preventing the adhesion of plasterboard using plasterboarding foam in 2 story residential brick dwellings.


Do you know of any ?

Buford T Justice

listermint wrote: »

Im a big fan of the latest tech of Insulated plasterboard foam tbh. Its quick and holds just as strong as dab. Its taken off on the continent but still not prolific here.

For the normal board id use that, for the insulated stuff you will need that and also mushroom fittings.

For the electrical stuff you will need to get someone qualified to remove the fixings and then you can cut out the holes before placing the board. I cut out holes after placing the board with a pad saw but its not for everyone.

There's a foam to use as a replacement for dot and dab you mean? Electrics aren't a problem, I've a brother who's an electrician. Just wondering how the dry lining boxes work with 30mm of insulation behind the slab.

listermint

Buford T Justice wrote: »

There's a foam to use as a replacement for dot and dab you mean? Electrics aren't a problem, I've a brother who's an electrician. Just wondering how the dry lining boxes work with 30mm of insulation behind the slab.

Plenty Evo Stik plasterboard adhesive is one I've used several times easy to work with goes off quick.

Calahonda52

listermint wrote: »

I don't believe there is regulations preventing the adhesion of plasterboard using plasterboarding foam in 2 story residential brick dwellings.

Do you know of any ?

I re-read your post and I am not sure where you are using the foam?
Is it with plain pb against an existing wall, with ceiling slab already in place, just to clean it up?

listermint

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I re-read your post and I am not sure where you are using the foam?
Is it with plain pb against an existing wall, with ceiling slab already in place, just to clean it up?

Correct

dathi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4osTCKdq3v4

one of these types of products ?

Buford T Justice

listermint wrote: »

Correct

This.
Regular slab all round, dot and dab fixing to plain brick walls, ceiling already in place but in poor condition. Just looking to clean the place up

listermint

dathi wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4osTCKdq3v4

one of these types of products ?

Pretty much.

It's quick easy to control. And less messy.

rivermisty

listermint wrote: »

Plenty Evo Stik plasterboard adhesive is one I've used several times easy to work with goes off quick.

The Evo Stick product looks very easy to use. Would there be any issue with using that to fix Insulated plasterboard? (about 80mm thick) to a masonry wall?
Would you add mechanical fixings too if you were using the Evo Stik?

douglashyde

Funny enough, I just done my bathroom using EvoStick to fix 50mm insulated plasterboard to masonry wall.

It's not enough itself as you'll be left holding the board to the wall. So what I ended up doing was using the EvoStick and steel mushroom head fixings, over kill but did the job.

rivermisty wrote: »

The Evo Stick product looks very easy to use. Would there be any issue with using that to fix Insulated plasterboard? (about 80mm thick) to a masonry wall?
Would you add mechanical fixings too if you were using the Evo Stik?

listermint

douglashyde wrote: »

Funny enough, I just done my bathroom using EvoStick to fix 50mm insulated plasterboard to masonry wall.

It's not enough itself as you'll be left holding the board to the wall. So what I ended up doing was using the EvoStick and steel mushroom head fixings, over kill but did the job.

You have to leave it set for 5-10 mins on the board, then apply the board to the wall. dont just put it up.

then lay a ladder or something against it, it goes off in minutes.

alan1963

Hi
I work as a plasterer in the Uk,when using Drywall adhesive it is possible to straighten up the walls by putting on bigger or smaller dots on the walls as appropriate, their by creating a near perfect wall, flat plumb etc.
This new product where you just run a 10mm bead on the board means you obviously have to"follow the wall",if the block work is 20mm out of plumb then the plastering will also be 20mm out of plumb for example.
for this reason for me it is Drywall adhesive every time.

5T3PH3N

alan1963 wrote: »

Hi
I work as a plasterer in the Uk,when using Drywall adhesive it is possible to straighten up the walls by putting on bigger or smaller dots on the walls as appropriate, their by creating a near perfect wall, flat plumb etc.
This new product where you just run a 10mm bead on the board means you obviously have to"follow the wall",if the block work is 20mm out of plumb then the plastering will also be 20mm out of plumb for example.
for this reason for me it is Drywall adhesive every time.

This^

We put a couple of metal insulation fixings in if they’re needed and then thermal caps on them.

alan1963

5T3PH3N wrote: »

This^

We put a couple of metal insulation fixings in if they’re needed and then thermal caps on them.

Hi

The idea behind the metal insulation fixings is IIUC is in a case of fire, the insulation on the back of the board can melt and cause the boards to fall of the walls, hampering the firemen in their rescue work. the metal fixings keep the boards stood upright against the walls.

listermint

alan1963 wrote: »

Hi
I work as a plasterer in the Uk,when using Drywall adhesive it is possible to straighten up the walls by putting on bigger or smaller dots on the walls as appropriate, their by creating a near perfect wall, flat plumb etc.
This new product where you just run a 10mm bead on the board means you obviously have to"follow the wall",if the block work is 20mm out of plumb then the plastering will also be 20mm out of plumb for example.
for this reason for me it is Drywall adhesive every time.

This is also not the case And it's not 10mm. Its expanding foam not a bead. It can be adjusted to be true and not with the wall contour. So no that's not accurate description of how it works at all.

dodzy

alan1963 wrote: »

Hi

The idea behind the metal insulation fixings is IIUC is in a case of fire, the insulation on the back of the board can melt and cause the boards to fall of the walls, hampering the firemen in their rescue work. the metal fixings keep the boards stood upright against the walls.

The metal mushrooms were out before insulated board. I’m sure the plastic were only created for cost saving and combating cold bridging was a bonus.

alan1963

listermint wrote: »

This is also not the case And it's not 10mm. Its expanding foam not a bead. It can be adjusted to be true and not with the wall contour. So no that's not accurate description of how it works at all.

OK


Plasterers forum in uk, somebody posted this question back in 2012.

Anyone used this foam adhesive much for fixing plasterboard on block Walls ect.
Usually comes in tube and conected to an applicator gun. Pink grip do 1 as do insta stik. The latter actualy does one now where u don't need the gun.
So does anyone use this instead of mixing up the dry wall and what are you thoughts... Any good??


1st answer



no! i like to do it the plasterers way! youll be asking next if we buy Aunt bessies:RpS_scared:


2nd answer



.It's crap mate. You can't tamp it with your straight edge and it keeps expanding for a while so getting joints level without physically standing there holding it is almost impossible. Only good thing about it is that you can stick to painted surfaces and stick foil backed boards.


3rd answer


its the worst thing ever ! a builder gave me some to try, cant level it, wont take a nail on the corners for a bead, you have to time it perfect as if you push the board to early it squeezes out and to late it doesnt stick!!!

Still waters

listermint wrote: »

This is also not the case And it's not 10mm. Its expanding foam not a bead. It can be adjusted to be true and not with the wall contour. So no that's not accurate description of how it works at all.

What happens if the wall is off square, or some old walls could be 2 to 3 inches off plum, I've used the foam and it comes nowhere near to the adhesive for professionals looking to do a proper job, the foam maybe ok for diyers looking to stick a couple of plain slabs onto a flat wall but forget about it in a job that requires a good quality finish

listermint

alan1963 wrote: »

OK


Plasterers forum in uk, somebody posted this question back in 2012.

Anyone used this foam adhesive much for fixing plasterboard on block Walls ect.
Usually comes in tube and conected to an applicator gun. Pink grip do 1 as do insta stik. The latter actualy does one now where u don't need the gun.
So does anyone use this instead of mixing up the dry wall and what are you thoughts... Any good??


1st answer



no! i like to do it the plasterers way! youll be asking next if we buy Aunt bessies:RpS_scared:


2nd answer



.It's crap mate. You can't tamp it with your straight edge and it keeps expanding for a while so getting joints level without physically standing there holding it is almost impossible. Only good thing about it is that you can stick to painted surfaces and stick foil backed boards.


3rd answer


its the worst thing ever ! a builder gave me some to try, cant level it, wont take a nail on the corners for a bead, you have to time it perfect as if you push the board to early it squeezes out and to late it doesnt stick!!!

I've never once see tradesmen's cotton on to new products switching from anything they've used cheaply for decades.

And a plasterer's forum... So what ?

There's a market for these products and they work exactly as described you may not like that. I don't know why but sure look.... I don't care.

listermint

Still waters wrote: »

What happens if the wall is off square, or some old walls could be 2 to 3 inches off plum, I've used the foam and it comes nowhere near to the adhesive for professionals looking to do a proper job, the foam maybe ok for diyers looking to stick a couple of plain slabs onto a flat wall but forget about it in a job that requires a good quality finish

Hey let's stick it some edge cases of walls 3 inches of square and see what comes back...



Try harder.

I'd suggest you look at the title of this forum...

Still waters

listermint wrote: »

Hey let's stick it some edge cases of walls 3 inches of square and see what comes back...



Try harder.

I'd suggest you look at the title of this forum...

Try harder? I know it's a diy forum but that doesn't mean you should promote a sub standard product, if anything you should be encouraging people to do work that they will be happy with, there's plenty videos on YouTube that a diyer could follow regards dotting and dabbing, and do a job correctly rather than be messing with an inferior product

alan1963

listermint wrote: »

I've never once see tradesmen's cotton on to new products switching from anything they've used cheaply for decades.

And a plasterer's forum... So what ?

There's a market for these products and they work exactly as described you may not like that. I don't know why but sure look.... I don't care.

I Have worked at plastering for a long,long time I have seen many changes, as I remember it if an improvement is developed it is taken up, accepted universally almost instantly.
some examples;


Scrim tape, when I first started we used cotton scrim for joints in plasterboard,as soon as we were given self adhesive fibre tape we never used the cotton stuff again this was late 80's early 90's


Drywall screws, when I first started we plaster boarded using galvanized clout-head nails, no cordless drills,often some nail heads would pop because difficult to get nails tight enough, as soon as half decent cordlesses came out most,all plasterers started screwing boards,no more popped heads.


drywall adhesive its self, before about year 2000 we always 2 coat plastered masonry walls,no other way, always been done that way,when we first were taught dot and dab we took to it straight away ,very rarely now ever do 2 coat


I accept there is a market for this foam adhesive stuff and if you want to use it then work away but to claim it is as good as or even better than dry wall adhesive, no way.


I am a big believer in the dry wall adhesive, if it is done right the board is stuck for good,if after say 24 hours or more you have to remove the board for whatever reason, there is no being able to reuse the board, the biggest piece of board you are left with is about 6 inch square,the dots are so well stuck to the concrete blocks you chisel the face of the block away to clean it off,cannot imagine that being the case with foam adhesive.

Kevin Finnerty

alan1963 wrote: »

I Have worked at plastering for a long,long time I have seen many changes, as I remember it if an improvement is developed it is taken up, accepted universally almost instantly.
some examples;


Scrim tape, when I first started we used cotton scrim for joints in plasterboard,as soon as we were given self adhesive fibre tape we never used the cotton stuff again this was late 80's early 90's


Drywall screws, when I first started we plaster boarded using galvanized clout-head nails, no cordless drills,often some nail heads would pop because difficult to get nails tight enough, as soon as half decent cordlesses came out most,all plasterers started screwing boards,no more popped heads.


drywall adhesive its self, before about year 2000 we always 2 coat plastered masonry walls,no other way, always been done that way,when we first were taught dot and dab we took to it straight away ,very rarely now ever do 2 coat


I accept there is a market for this foam adhesive stuff and if you want to use it then work away but to claim it is as good as or even better than dry wall adhesive, no way.


I am a big believer in the dry wall adhesive, if it is done right the board is stuck for good,if after say 24 hours or more you have to remove the board for whatever reason, there is no being able to reuse the board, the biggest piece of board you are left with is about 6 inch square,the dots are so well stuck to the concrete blocks you chisel the face of the block away to clean it off,cannot imagine that being the case with foam adhesive.

Even retrospectively fitting a socket I'd always test insulated slab with a radawl to see if the socket box is gonna be on a "blob". If so, move a few inches sideways, far easier job.

listermint

Still waters wrote: »

Try harder? I know it's a diy forum but that doesn't mean you should promote a sub standard product, if anything you should be encouraging people to do work that they will be happy with, there's plenty videos on YouTube that a diyer could follow regards dotting and dabbing, and do a job correctly rather than be messing with an inferior product

Its not sub standard but well done for showing my previous post of ignorance on product knowledge.

Kudos

listermint

alan1963 wrote: »

I Have worked at plastering for a long,long time I have seen many changes, as I remember it if an improvement is developed it is taken up, accepted universally almost instantly.
some examples;


Scrim tape, when I first started we used cotton scrim for joints in plasterboard,as soon as we were given self adhesive fibre tape we never used the cotton stuff again this was late 80's early 90's


Drywall screws, when I first started we plaster boarded using galvanized clout-head nails, no cordless drills,often some nail heads would pop because difficult to get nails tight enough, as soon as half decent cordlesses came out most,all plasterers started screwing boards,no more popped heads.


drywall adhesive its self, before about year 2000 we always 2 coat plastered masonry walls,no other way, always been done that way,when we first were taught dot and dab we took to it straight away ,very rarely now ever do 2 coat


I accept there is a market for this foam adhesive stuff and if you want to use it then work away but to claim it is as good as or even better than dry wall adhesive, no way.


I am a big believer in the dry wall adhesive, if it is done right the board is stuck for good,if after say 24 hours or more you have to remove the board for whatever reason, there is no being able to reuse the board, the biggest piece of board you are left with is about 6 inch square,the dots are so well stuck to the concrete blocks you chisel the face of the block away to clean it off,cannot imagine that being the case with foam adhesive.

Foam would pull the block with it thats its point it's permanent.

Still waters

listermint wrote: »

Its not sub standard but well done for showing my previous post of ignorance on product knowledge.

Kudos

I dont think there's any need to take it personally, I'm just giving my opinion on what I believe to be an inferior product, you may have used it with good results but I find the adhesive to be a better all round product, I've used the foam and it has limitations, I can see why diyers like yourself and the op would be tempted to use a product like this, it's specifically marketed at people who only need to do a small job and it does it fine, but for anything more than sticking a few pieces for patching I'd be using adhesive

GreeBo

Still waters wrote: »

What happens if the wall is off square, or some old walls could be 2 to 3 inches off plum, I've used the foam and it comes nowhere near to the adhesive for professionals looking to do a proper job, the foam maybe ok for diyers looking to stick a couple of plain slabs onto a flat wall but forget about it in a job that requires a good quality finish

How does the board know what its being held in with?

Foam is used to hold in large windows and doors these days, its highly effective and highly adhesive.


BTW would you really dot 3 inches of mud onto the back of a board?:eek:

5T3PH3N

GreeBo wrote: »

How does the board know what its being held in with?

Foam is used to hold in large windows and doors these days, its highly effective and highly adhesive.


BTW would you really dot 3 inches of mud onto the back of a board?:eek:

It’s the workability of standard adhesive that puts it ahead of others methods.

Foam by itself should not be used to hold windows or doors in, it should be accompanied by concrete screws or similar through the frame or standard window straps.

You build out the wall with a dab, bit of slab and then a dap again rather than just one big blob.

dathi

5T3PH3N wrote: »

It’s the workability of standard adhesive that puts it ahead of others methods.
You build out the wall with a dab, bit of slab and then a dap again rather than just one big blob.

and it goes without saying you all use a continuous layer of adhesive at ceiling , skirting around electrical boxes and where the slab abuts a wall

listermint

Still waters wrote: »

I dont think there's any need to take it personally, I'm just giving my opinion on what I believe to be an inferior product, you may have used it with good results but I find the adhesive to be a better all round product, I've used the foam and it has limitations, I can see why diyers like yourself and the op would be tempted to use a product like this, it's specifically marketed at people who only need to do a small job and it does it fine, but for anything more than sticking a few pieces for patching I'd be using adhesive

I get it.

I boarded my entire kitchen in half the time it would take a dabber and his mixing.

Its not personal btw just a boatload of misinformation I was correcting in the last two pages .

Foam is not strong ... Foam doesn't allow for correction of wall levels.

All good stuff.

GreeBo

5T3PH3N wrote: »

It’s the workability of standard adhesive that puts it ahead of others methods.

Foam by itself should not be used to hold windows or doors in, it should be accompanied by concrete screws or similar through the frame or standard window straps.

You build out the wall with a dab, bit of slab and then a dap again rather than just one big blob.

Fixing foam is perfectly fine to use to install windows or doors, its what its designed for and is plenty strong. The glass will come out of the window before the frame comes out of the wall.


Workability of plaster is a definite plus, but when you have to get into having to build out the wall bit by bit, then you are going to be faster just foaming it in and also going to get a more uniform solution, unless you spend a lot of time with bits of slab and mud and a straight edge feathering it out.
i.e. you dont need the workability as you dont need to work with the foam like you need to work with plaster (in the context of boarding a room)

rivermisty

Just an update on my job. When scraping off loose paint I copped on that the wall had lining paper on it. No point using fixing foam on that as you'd be relying on the wallpaper paste to hold your boards up. So I went with about 16 metal fixings per board into the masonry. If I'd thought of it before hand I would have filled each fixing by punching them into a spare piece of insulation. I wonder is there any way to fill the hollow fixings now that they are in the wall. Or is there any need to?
Also, should I spray the discs on the end of the fixings with primer before getting a plasterer in?

listermint

rivermisty wrote: »

Just an update on my job. When scraping off loose paint I copped on that the wall had lining paper on it. No point using fixing foam on that as you'd be relying on the wallpaper paste to hold your boards up. So I went with about 16 metal fixings per board into the masonry. If I'd thought of it before hand I would have filled each fixing by punching them into a spare piece of insulation. I wonder is there any way to fill the hollow fixings now that they are in the wall. Or is there any need to?
Also, should I spray the discs on the end of the fixings with primer before getting a plasterer in?

Plastic fixings would have been ideal for cold bridging but past that.

Yes would prime them, spray the end. The can expose rust through to the paint work depending on the fixings you have.