Firearms Security & Access

PSXDupe

Folks

Not sure if anyone has experience with this but let me explain anyway.

Son is 15, shoot clays and is part of the juniors in Balheary. He uses the clubs gun at the minute but is ordering his own as he'll soon be 16 and able to licence his own.

Here's my question.

I have a number of safes, all alarmed etc, and my firearms are broke across a number of safes.

Now when he get his shotgun, can he store them in my safes (broke), or will I need to fit another safe for him.

Personally I would think breaking a firearm across multple safes is better, but then I would have access to his firearm. He would not have access to them without me being present and I'm the only person with the alarm codes to access the safes.

Anyone have a similar situation, what did the Gardai want you to do.

BattleCorp

I think you have two choices here.

Either let him use one of your safes exclusively for his firearm or else put in a new safe for him to use.

Like you said, you'd have access to a firearm that you don't have a licence for.

I know many families share the same safe but I think if push came to shove, they'd be in trouble.

PSXDupe

I wonder if I just stick in a small safe for him to store the forend in and then put the rest in my safes.


Therefore I don't have access to a full shotgun and have the added benefit of it being broke.


Think a call to the firearms officer or crime pevention lad is in order.

Cadpat_cowboy

PSXDupe wrote: »

I wonder if I just stick in a small safe for him to store the forend in and then put the rest in my safes.


Therefore I don't have access to a full shotgun and have the added benefit of it being broke.


Think a call to the firearms officer or crime pevention lad is in order.

What if you weld in a bracket to the inside of one of your safes that he can lock his gun into with the trigger guard, then he can't get into the safe without you and you can't remove his gun from the safe.

BattleCorp

PSXDupe wrote: »

I wonder if I just stick in a small safe for him to store the forend in and then put the rest in my safes.


Therefore I don't have access to a full shotgun and have the added benefit of it being broke.


Think a call to the firearms officer or crime pevention lad is in order.

One small point here. A piece of a firearm is considered a firearm under our legislation so that might put the kybosh on your idea above.

Damoeire33

Why not do joint ownership on the new shotty, cuts out any messing

Vegeta

My advice would be to get a license for his shotgun as well. Saves a lot of messing around.

PSXDupe

I'd doubt they do that, considering I have two semi-auto's and a U/O already.

What just reason do I have to own two identical Beretta A400

Vegeta

PSXDupe wrote: »

I'd doubt they do that, considering I have two semi-auto's and a U/O already.

What just reason do I have to own two identical Beretta A400

Because it is your sons firearm, you share a home and you'd like to be licensed on it so that you can be in legal possession of it at any time in case the need arises. Need to meet your son at a shoot somewhere, you can transport both shotguns. You're out at a clay shoot with your son but he is going somewhere afterwards, you can drop him off and bring both guns home etc. etc. etc.

Sure they might ask why you want a license on it but if your Superintendent is a reasonable person they'll see the logic in a young lads father also having a license on the shotgun.

Wadi14

Ring the supers office and tell them what ur looking for , see has he any problems if not your grand,if he has you iron them out and your good to go.

Cass

I'm not the Gardaí so anything i say is an opinion rather than fact/law.

Many houses/homes are in this situation and many have had visits by the CPO who signed off on. Once both people with access are firearm owners and both classed as competent with ALL firearms secured away then i highly doubt there will be an issue.

Yes, by the very word of the law he should have access to his only and you, yours only, but i have never heard of anyone getting their collar felt or worse simply for allowing a family member to store their firearm in the same safe.

If you wanted to "double down" you could allow him to use the safe, but keep possession of the keys/codes so only you have access to them. The word of law says no one without a license should have access however i would argue that is to stop family/friends with no license access to any firearms as opposed to another family that has a firearms license from using the same safe.

Again just my opinion, and given the very public nature of this forum the lads above are quite right in what they say, but on another note i'd hesitate to bring such "small" stuff up for fear it gets lumped in with the ever expanding list of demands i'm seeing around the country for lads to apply for or renew their license(s).

Lastly, it's a shotgun. The SI says the minimum is broken down and the separate pieces stored separately. So a gun safe is not a must unless it's made so by the Super (not the FO).

Grizzly 45

PSXDupe wrote: »

I'd doubt they do that, considering I have two semi-auto's and a U/O already.

What just reason do I have to own two identical Beretta A400

I've eight of them dual liscensed,its not a biggie.

Grizzly 45

PSXDupe wrote: »

I'd doubt they do that, considering I have two semi-auto's and a U/O already.

What just reason do I have to own two identical Beretta A400

I've eight of them dual liscensed,its not a biggie. Two guns of the same type?They are a matched pair perhaps??

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I've eight of them dual liscensed,its not a biggie.

Does it cost twice as much to do that? In other words 8 x 2 x €80 instead of 8 x €80?

meathstevie

There's two S/S in our house, both are licenced in my name and my 15 year old son has a training licence on one of them. The only thing the Garda dealing with the application said was to not let him out with it unless supervised by me. I replied: "A bit like driving the car on L-plates so". He replied: "Exactly".

It's a bit of a complicated discussion really but who has possession when the guns are in the safe and you aren't at home and the rest of the family is ?

If you really go to extremes in the interpretation of the legislation you'd be left with a situation where every firearms owner has to be the sole occupant of a dwelling to avoid any possibility for a family member to have possession or control.

Same thing when you go for a few pints and it becomes a few more than planned. When you come home are you then drunk and in control of a firearm ? Should you leave your guns in storage with an RFD every time you go for a pint ?

BattleCorp

meathstevie wrote: »

It's a bit of a complicated discussion really but who has possession when the guns are in the safe and you aren't at home and the rest of the family is ?

If you really go to extremes in the interpretation of the legislation you'd be left with a situation where every firearms owner has to be the sole occupant of a dwelling to avoid any possibility for a family member to have possession or control.

If your firearms are locked in the safe and only you have access to the keys to the safe, then the rest of your family aren't in possession of the firearms.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

Does it cost twice as much to do that? In other words 8 x 2 x €80 instead of 8 x €80?

160 euros per dually licensed gun.IE 2X80 e 160x8= 1280 over a 3 year period.:( The one good thing of the 3-year license. You spread the costs if you are a multiple gun owner.:rolleyes:

SeaFields

Very interesting discussion. As a young lad at home my shotgun was in my father's safe. When I bought a .22 that went into the safe. The safe was inspected but it was never raised and to be honest never occurred to either of us. I'm sure there were occasions when, after an outing, my father would drop me somewhere (probably to the local!) and carry on home with both guns in the car. Again never occurred to us that technically outside the law!

garv123

SeaFields wrote: »

Very interesting discussion. As a young lad at home my shotgun was in my father's safe. When I bought a .22 that went into the safe. The safe was inspected but it was never raised and to be honest never occurred to either of us. I'm sure there were occasions when, after an outing, my father would drop me somewhere (probably to the local!) and carry on home with both guns in the car. Again never occurred to us that technically outside the law!

A person can carry or transport your firearm under your instruction for sporting purposes or something along those lines in the firearms act.

(f) the carriage for sporting purposes only of a firearm or ammunition under instructions from and for the use of the holder of a firearm certificate for such firearm or ammunition;

grassroot1

PSXDupe wrote: »

I'd doubt they do that, considering I have two semi-auto's and a U/O already.

What just reason do I have to own two identical Beretta A400

"well guard my son owns one and i would like to keep a tight rein on him while he is using it"

PSXDupe

grassroot1 wrote: »

"well guard my son owns one and i would like to keep a tight rein on him while he is using it"

Probably the last thing I would consider doing to be honest, this gives the impression that I have little trust in him, which is far from the truth.


If I needed to keep a tight rein on him, he wouldn't have one in the first place.