Galway Ring Road- are there better ways to solve traffic?

Sam Russell

Carol25 wrote: »

I agree that planning is very poor, roads and developments were not built correctly, no provisions for the future included, and generally no thought beyond cutting a ribbon and getting a picture in the paper for opening new roads, etc.
However I also see how other cities operate, and how they plan and do a proper job initially when it comes to their infrastructure. It’s not just one or the other. Cars or public transport, it’s both catered for. It’s time to plan ahead for once, put in a proper road and develop public transport initiatives on foot of that. If the outer ring road was built, hopefully more areas of the city centre could be developed as car free zones, with designated bus and cycle lanes.

I doubt the outer ring road will be built inside a decade, if ever. Past planning has been worse than poor, so why do you think the current plan is any good?

Cars do not cater for the old, the young, the blind or those cannot drive. Public transport does.

Carol25

Oh dear here we go again with poor planning in Galway City Council. Why on earth build this development off a roundabout that is already dysfunctional.
https://connachttribune.ie/approval-for-massive-e130m-offices-residential-and-hotel-scheme/

Carol25

Sam Russell wrote: »

I doubt the outer ring road will be built inside a decade, if ever. Past planning has been worse than poor, so why do you think the current plan is any good?

Cars do not cater for the old, the young, the blind or those cannot drive. Public transport does.

I think planning for road building has improved greatly over time, mistakes were made certainly. Some unforgivable, for instance not putting in freeflow junctions on the M50 initially when it was being built to name but a few. But road planners now have much more data and knowledge of how the system might work and develop. The current planners had less options for routing of the current bypass due to planning being previously denied on other routes, which made their work difficult I’m sure when choosing their preferred route.
I am also of the impression most urban councils in Ireland have no clue as to how to implement proper public transport options for people. Where bus or cycle lanes should go, how to design them, and what traffic implications there would be, etc.

McGiver

Sam Russell wrote:

One full bus carries more than 50 cars. A lot of buses can be bought and run for 20 years for €600 million.

And they can easily be electric or minimum hybrid with almost no pollution at this stage!

Sam Russell

McGiver wrote: »

And they can easily be electric or minimum hybrid with almost no pollution at this stage!

A bus costs about €400k, so €40 million would buy 100 buses, which would be plenty for Galway. That would leave €560 million left to fix the Botha Na dTreabh and make it bus friendly and free flow. It might leave enough for a second QCB over the Corrib, and into Newcastle, and even connect it with the Western Distributor Road.

The secret to solving the Galway gridlock is free flow and bus lanes filled with buses going every few minutes. P&R could make a huge difference if it made journey times quicker and more reliable. A €1 for 90 minutes ticket would encourage people to use it.

[They have bus lanes, like the Renmore Road one and the Tuam Road one, but not many buses on them].

Carol25

Carol25 wrote: »

Oh dear here we go again with poor planning in Galway City Council. Why on earth build this development off a roundabout that is already dysfunctional.
https://connachttribune.ie/approval-for-massive-e130m-offices-residential-and-hotel-scheme/

The development is off the Doughiska road rather than the roundabout. It is on the most frequent bus service and is denser than the surrounding suburban sprawl. What is wrong with it?

McGiver

Carol25 wrote:

People use public transport and would much more regularly if the proper services were there. I might also add it’s extremely pricey for myself and my children and needs to be cheaper to be sustainable. The infrastructure to provide proper services currently isn’t there.

So your logic is as follows:
1. You say you support public transport.
2. You would use it more if the service improved.
3. You would use it more if it was cheaper.
4. The service won't improve, because there is no infrastructure.
5. You oppose prioritising more public transport infrastructure.

So do you really support it in reality?

Not only is quite impossible to improve PT service while simultaneously drastically reducing the PT price, but also the PT service can't improve without prioritising its infrastructure over individual transport one. This is wishful thinking and circular logic leading nowhere, and actually good demonstration of a very common local attitude to PT - "I don't use PT because it's crap and expensive, I would use if it was good, but I vehemently oppose any improvement of PT. Instead build more roads for my car, because PT is useless."

McGiver

Deleted User wrote:

The development is off the Doughiska road rather than the roundabout. It is on the most frequent bus service and is denser than the surrounding suburban sprawl. What is wrong with it?

Yes and they finally trying to break through the dogma of "gods sake please don't build high". Galway City needs to start building higher buildings to increase population density, that's essential.

what_traffic

Sam Russell wrote: »

The secret to solving the Galway gridlock is free flow and bus lanes filled with buses going every few minutes. P&R could make a huge difference if it made journey times quicker and more reliable. A €1 for 90 minutes ticket would encourage people to use it.

[They have bus lanes, like the Renmore Road one and the Tuam Road one, but not many buses on them].

Agree - we need way more bus and cycle infrastructure.
No bus lane on any section of the "Tuam Road"(R336/N83) as that stretch of road is known in the City? Are ya mixing it up with Seamus Quirke Road/Bishop O Donnell Road on the West Side of the City?

There is a proposal for inbound bus lane on the N83 (old N17) from Parkmore junction to the N6 for over a decade now
https://connachttribune.ie/call-for-action-on-tuam-road-bus-corridor-006/

but Galway City Council have been very very slow to progress it? I wonder why?.............

Ashleigh1986

Every discussion on these forums turn into motorist fighting with cyclists fighting with bus users .
If I want to drive my car to work I should.
If I want to cycle to work I should .
If I want to use a bus I should.
We are as guilty as the muppets in city hall with our own agendas .
The ring road is a minimum of 8 years away .
Galway traffic needs correcting today . All city roundabouts taken out and replaced by CCTV operated traffic light system monitored 7am to 10am and 4pm to 7pm.
Turn Lough atalia / college road / bohermore/ headford road to one way to allow bus lanes to be put in.
No parking whatsoever along foster street/ eglinton street .
A zero tolerance approach by traffic wardens / gardai to the ...I'm just parking here for a second brigade as a "pop" into the shop !!!!
Pedestrians crossings at Jurys hotel to be looked at .
During the summer months these cause chaos with the backup of traffic going back to Lough atalia .
Turn mill street / Henry street/ sea road into one way.
No right turn at traffic lights when it's not possible to undertake on left .

Sam Russell

what_traffic wrote: »

Agree - we need way more bus and cycle infrastructure.
No bus lane on any section of the "Tuam Road"(R336/N83) as that stretch of road is known in the City? Are ya mixing it up with Seamus Quirke Road/Bishop O Donnell Road on the West Side of the City?

There is a proposal for inbound bus lane on the N83 (old N17) from Parkmore junction to the N6 for over a decade now
https://connachttribune.ie/call-for-action-on-tuam-road-bus-corridor-006/

but Galway City Council have been very very slow to progress it? I wonder why?.............

Well, travelling from Claregaway into town there is several Kms of outbound bus lane that appears totally misplaced as I have never seen a bus on it. Agreed it is outside the city, but it is on the Tuam Road - as it is known locally - or the N17 in song.

I am not mixing it up.

xckjoo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, travelling from Claregaway into town there is several Kms of outbound bus lane that appears totally misplaced as I have never seen a bus on it. Agreed it is outside the city, but it is on the Tuam Road - as it is known locally - or the N17 in song.

I am not mixing it up.

Are you talking about the part directly outside of Claregalway? Between the village and Corinthians?

Sam Russell

xckjoo wrote: »

Are you talking about the part directly outside of Claregalway? Between the village and Corinthians?

Yes, a completely pointless bus lane, but I do not go that way at 5pm so perhaps that is when it gets use, but how many buses go that way between 5pm, and 7 pm?

xckjoo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Yes, a completely pointless bus lane, but I do not go that way at 5pm so perhaps that is when it gets use, but how many buses go that way between 5pm, and 7 pm?

Couldn't tell you to be honest, but I grew up out that direction and traffic was horrendous at the time (20 years ago at this stage :eek:). You'd regularly have traffic jams going back past Corinthians even then. I'm long gone from the area so can't directly comment on recent years, but they didn't have the bus lanes at the time so removing it isn't going to do much beyond slow the buses back down. There's no benefit in converting them to a second car lane either as the main bottleneck is Claregalway village so you'd just be adding to the bottleneck with an additional merge. You could have 5 lanes coming into the village and you'd still have the same issue.

xckjoo

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Every discussion on these forums turn into motorist fighting with cyclists fighting with bus users .
If I want to drive my car to work I should.
If I want to cycle to work I should .
If I want to use a bus I should.
We are as guilty as the muppets in city hall with our own agendas .
The ring road is a minimum of 8 years away .
Galway traffic needs correcting today . All city roundabouts taken out and replaced by CCTV operated traffic light system monitored 7am to 10am and 4pm to 7pm.
Turn Lough atalia / college road / bohermore/ headford road to one way to allow bus lanes to be put in.
No parking whatsoever along foster street/ eglinton street .
A zero tolerance approach by traffic wardens / gardai to the ...I'm just parking here for a second brigade as a "pop" into the shop !!!!
Pedestrians crossings at Jurys hotel to be looked at .
During the summer months these cause chaos with the backup of traffic going back to Lough atalia .
Turn mill street / Henry street/ sea road into one way.
No right turn at traffic lights when it's not possible to undertake on left .

Have to disagree with you slightly on this point Ashleigh. Just because I want to do something, doesn't mean I should get to do it. Specially if it has a negative effect on everyone else. With all else being equal, almost everyone will chose to drive as it's so convenient and easy. But it's infra-structurally impossible to accommodate that. We need to prioritise public transport so that it's more attractive to take it than to take your own car out (for most people). This will increase the overall capacity of the road networks by reducing the space taken up by every person travelling.

I do agree with you on a lot of the suggested reforms though :pac:

Sam Russell

xckjoo wrote: »

Couldn't tell you to be honest, but I grew up out that direction and traffic was horrendous at the time (20 years ago at this stage :eek:). You'd regularly have traffic jams going back past Corinthians even then. I'm long gone from the area so can't directly comment on recent years, but they didn't have the bus lanes at the time so removing it isn't going to do much beyond slow the buses back down. There's no benefit in converting them to a second car lane either as the main bottleneck is Claregalway village so you'd just be adding to the bottleneck with an additional merge. You could have 5 lanes coming into the village and you'd still have the same issue.

I was not suggesting removing it.

I think bus lanes need to be provided to give buses priority and allow them to run to time.

However, there is not much point in having buslanes without enough buses to provide a decent frequent service. As has been pointed out elsewhere on this thread it will be 8 to 10 years before any traffic goes down any new bypass or ring road or whatever they call it when it is built. Grid lock is now and solutions are need now.

When is Galway City getting its version of Busconnects?

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

Yes, a completely pointless bus lane, but I do not go that way at 5pm so perhaps that is when it gets use, but how many buses go that way between 5pm, and 7 pm?

4/5 bus eireann, 5/6 burkes + random others like mountbellew, feda.

The traffic queue starts earlier than 5 but wouldn't go on till 7.

what_traffic

Sam Russell wrote: »

Yes, a completely pointless bus lane, but I do not go that way at 5pm so perhaps that is when it gets use, but how many buses go that way between 5pm, and 7 pm?

Disagree. Used and needed.

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

4/5 bus eireann, 5/6 burkes + random others like mountbellew, feda.

The traffic queue starts earlier than 5 but wouldn't go on till 7.

Its way more than that

http://burkesbus.com/#section-time

Sam Russell

OK, there may be use for that bus lane, but it is only there because of the bottleneck that is Claregalway. The solution to that particular problem was the M17, which has turned out to be a mistake.

How confident is everyone proposing the GORR that it will ease the gridlock in the city? Would it be better to do a bit of PT provision anyway, restrict some of the obvious pinch points, and do a bit of free flow on the N6?

Sam Russell

what_traffic wrote: »

Its way more than that

http://burkesbus.com/#section-time

OK, so there are 6 Burkes coaches going Galway to Tuam between 5pm and 7 pm, that is one every 10 minutes. Do they manage to sail through Claregalway, or are they delayed in the village anyway?

xckjoo

Sam Russell wrote: »

OK, there may be use for that bus lane, but it is only there because of the bottleneck that is Claregalway. The solution to that particular problem was the M17, which has turned out to be a mistake.

How confident is everyone proposing the GORR that it will ease the gridlock in the city? Would it be better to do a bit of PT provision anyway, restrict some of the obvious pinch points, and do a bit of free flow on the N6?

Ya the claregalway bypass was touted as a solution for as long as I can remember and that was rolled into what's now the M17. It's a good example of what people think will happen if the GORR going ahead. Fancy new expensive road but still the same old problems

what_traffic

Sam Russell wrote: »

OK, so there are 6 Burkes coaches going Galway to Tuam between 5pm and 7 pm, that is one every 10 minutes. Do they manage to sail through Claregalway, or are they delayed in the village anyway?

YES.
It makes a difference, more so in the mornings though. Its why you still hear Claregalway/Loughgeorge mentioned on the AARoadwatch every morning on RTE Radio.
Now - if Claregalway and Tuam bypass were built 20 years ago like they should have been would not need the M17 (or bus lanes in Claregalway at all.)

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

YES.
It makes a difference, more so in the mornings though. Its why you still hear Claregalway/Loughgeorge mentioned on the AARoadwatch every morning on RTE Radio.

Ok maybe wrong on that
AARoadwatch @ 17h20
https://www.theaa.ie/routes/newsroom/

CITY TRAFFIC
GALWAY:

So far, the Tuam Rd is slowest outbound into Claregalway.

Traffic is moving well around Galway City.

Ashleigh1986

xckjoo wrote: »

Have to disagree with you slightly on this point Ashleigh. Just because I want to do something, doesn't mean I should get to do it. Specially if it has a negative effect on everyone else. With all else being equal, almost everyone will chose to drive as it's so convenient and easy. But it's infra-structurally impossible to accommodate that. We need to prioritise public transport so that it's more attractive to take it than to take your own car out (for most people). This will increase the overall capacity of the road networks by reducing the space taken up by every person travelling.

I do agree with you on a lot of the suggested reforms though :pac:

We all agree something needs to be done now .
That's why more bus lanes need to be put in .
However unless you start knocking property galway hasn't the space to put in extra bus lanes where needed .
That's why only turning Lough atalia/ college road / bohermore / headford road from courthouse to tesco into one way is the only way your going to fit in bus lanes into galway city center .
There is no point in having a bus service if same buses are going to struggle getting out of city to get to bus lanes further out .
Think about a bus lane going out bohermore / out tuam road / up parkmore hill into parkmore .
Bus lane coming out parkmore and all along renmore / Lough atalia into eyre square .

serfboard

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

All city roundabouts taken out and replaced by CCTV operated traffic light system monitored 7am to 10am and 4pm to 7pm.

It's one thing to say that this needs to be done - quite another to do it. Right now there are three roundabouts in particular in the city that should be replaced - Cemetry Cross, Menlo and SQR. The reason they haven't? Because these are five-arm roundabouts, and replacing them with a four-arm junction, means someone has to lose out.

Who do you think it should be, and do you think that the people who might lose out are not going to object?

The reason the Menlo one hasn't been done, for instance, is that the residents of Terryland are not happy that the Coolough Road is going to lose out in the current proposal and they are objecting to that. (The current proposal involves diverting the Coolough Road onto the N84 further back).

Sam Russell

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

We all agree something needs to be done now .
That's why more bus lanes need to be put in .
However unless you start knocking property galway hasn't the space to put in extra bus lanes where needed .
That's why only turning Lough atalia/ college road / bohermore / headford road from courthouse to tesco into one way is the only way your going to fit in bus lanes into galway city center .
There is no point in having a bus service if same buses are going to struggle getting out of city to get to bus lanes further out .
Think about a bus lane going out bohermore / out tuam road / up parkmore hill into parkmore .
Bus lane coming out parkmore and all along renmore / Lough atalia into eyre square .

You will not see any of those projects because it will mean that the GORR will not be needed, just as a Claregalway and Tuam bypass would have stopped the M17.

It would be better to put in an expensive Luas because it might cost less, but it would be new and shiny.

Ashleigh1986

serfboard wrote: »

It's one thing to say that this needs to be done - quite another to do it. Right now there are three roundabouts in particular in the city that should be replaced - Cemetry Cross, Menlo and SQR. The reason they haven't? Because these are five-arm roundabouts, and replacing them with a four-arm junction, means someone has to lose out.

Who do you think it should be, and do you think that the people who might lose out are not going to object?

The reason the Menlo one hasn't been done, for instance, is that the residents of Terryland are not happy that the Coolough Road is going to lose out in the current proposal and they are objecting to that. (The current proposal involves diverting the Coolough Road onto the N84 further back).

The roundabout at castlelawn heights will be turned into a 4 arm traffic light junction.
Driving down by the menlo park hotel you will have to take a slip road parallel to menlo park to take a right to come back in the headford road .
The roundabout at cemetery cross will also be turned into 4 arm traffic light junction.
Sandy road will be closed off and the residents at gort na glaisce etc will be able to join traffic at an exit going in parallel to esb to come out at entrance to esb.
All roundabouts need to come out quickly .

Ashleigh1986

Luas for galway ain't going to happen.
Government ain't going to give funding for it.
It was announced today that cork are putting together a project to request a cuas for cork .
That's my point if galway gets one , cork will want one , Limerick will want one.
AINT GOING TO HAPPEN !!!
Where's all this money going to come from, and all on the back of the over run of the children's hospital , not to mention the broadband fiasco .

Sam Russell

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

The roundabout at castlelawn heights will be turned into a 4 arm traffic light junction.
Driving down by the menlo park hotel you will have to take a slip road parallel to menlo park to take a right to come back in the headford road .
The roundabout at cemetery cross will also be turned into 4 arm traffic light junction.
Sandy road will be closed off and the residents at gort na glaisce etc will be able to join traffic at an exit going in parallel to esb to come out at entrance to esb.
All roundabouts need to come out quickly .

Traffic lights reduce junction capacity by at least 50%. Only one side moving at a time. If slip roads are put in for left turns, that improves the situation, but needs more land. The best result is if the right turns are not allowed, or better still, one direction goes over on a bridge.

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Luas for galway ain't going to happen.
Government ain't going to give funding for it.
It was announced today that cork are putting together a project to request a cuas for cork .
That's my point if galway gets one , cork will want one , Limerick will want one.
AINT GOING TO HAPPEN !!!
Where's all this money going to come from, and all on the back of the over run of the children's hospital , not to mention the broadband fiasco .

Luas would cost less than the GRR, but lots a bus lanes and buses would cost less than that and might carry more people. The Luas cannot go everywhere but buses can.