Ireland vs Argentina 10/11/18 - This time it's not personal [1830, RTE2 & C4]

Former Former

The 13-man lineout was just the beginning...

When an massively unfavoured Argentina team dumped Ireland out of the 1999 World Cup, most of us thought it couldn't get any worse. And in fairness, that defeat was a catalyst of sorts for the changes in personnel and approach that we saw the following year and which led us into the relatively successful Gatland/Eddie era. But it also marked the start of a long and fractious relationship between two of the traditional underdogs of the international game.

It's easy to forget just how much Ireland and Argentina hated each other between 2000 and 2010. The 2003 RWC game was very bad-tempered, two Argies getting banned for eye-gouging while the game in Lansdowne the following year elicited five accusations of eye-gouging and one of mouth-gouging (none of which were proven), with Argentina countering with claims of unsporting behaviour by the Irish throughout.

Fast forward to 2007 and Eddie's Triple-Crown champions were utterly dismantled by the Pumas in Paris, bringing the curtain down on the grimmest of Ireland's RWC campaigns and taking Eddie down with it. I think it's fair to say that some of the lads brought some baggage with them into that game...



There followed a period of relative calm, a couple of test matches here and in Argentina, but as the protagonists of the Ireland/Argentina/Munster/Leinster rivalry of 2003-2009 drifted off, things took on a semblance of normality.

Then...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38upQjuTMQA

It's still hard viewing. It's forgotten now that we were only three points behind with 20 minutes to play but the Argies just had more in the tank and were well worth the win. The lowest point of Joe's decade in Irish rugby has (according to him) spurred him to ensure we have better strength in depth so that a repeat of 2015 won't happen again. We're not quite there yet but we are definitely in a better place.

As for the Pumas, let's just say they peak for the RWC; they're ranked ninth in the world, but they play so many games against the SH sides that it's hard to pick up wins, all the while refusing to pick many of their best European-based players.

So to today's game; it's hard to see past an Irish win. Second in the world, an almost fully-fit squad that mixes a hard edge with some real flair.

Jordan Larmour gets only his second test start in what might be the most dangerous attacking back three we've ever fielded, Stockdale picks up his 13th cap which is a pretty impressive stat itself and Earls is the experienced hand. Elsewhere it's pretty much as expected, Henderson edging out Toner and Sean O'Brien making his first test appearance for a year.

For some guys it's as much an audition for next week as anything; while maybe 10 of the jerseys for the NZ game are set in stone, there's still a number of calls to be finalised.

For the first time since the days of Jerry Flannery, there's a question mark over Rory Best's inclusion. Is he still the force of old? Can he last another 10 months? A big performance here would help calm a few nerves after a ropey few games for Ulster.

The Argentina side is composed entirely of Jaguares (Ramiro Herrera is the only Europe-based player in the squad but does not feature today). They have two very inexperienced props meaning Healy and Furlong should make hay.

The Pumas still have some very useful players, especially at 9 and 10, so they're still dangerous, but it's very hard to see past an Irish win here.






And lest we ever forget:
https://youtu.be/oZ86PiVp8rg?t=5895

kuang1

Great work FF.
I've my Jersey on early after reading that.
Should be a decent enough contest this one.

stephen_n

Think we will win but is going to be close, a lot rides on our midfield defence which will be tested without Ringrose. If they can get into the wide Chanel’s quickly we will concede tries.

Granny15

Is it fair to say Luke McGrath is second in the pecking order behind Marmion?

I know we'll learn more from next weeks selection but it looks like he's in there ahead of Cooney ATM.

thomond2006

The bookies are underestimating Argentina. They have looked good under Ledesma and are more battle hardened as a unit than the Irish team. I can see us winning by 7-10 in an underwhelming performance.

ManAboutCouch

thomond2006 wrote: »

The bookies are underestimating Argentina.

The bookies have Argentina +18, I agree that feels far too generous to Ireland. This is a team that beat South Africa at home and Australia away this year (and were up by 24 points against the wallabies at HT at home, before falling away in the 2nd half).

Creevy is a world class player, and they have 5 options in the lineout. They like to dink lots of grubbers through midfield, so this will be a real test of Larmour's positioning, and that's an area where he still has much to learn.

I do think Ireland will win, but by 1 or 2 scores rather than the 3 that the bookies are predicting.

CatFromHue

I just had a look at the team sheets from the RC and it does look like a similar team to one they put out there.

Which surprised me and does make the +18 look pretty wide.

The bookies are looking at the respective packs and coming up with that spread.

But then - as good as the Argentinian backs are, Stockdale is a try machine, Earls is a Lion and is playing the best rugby of his career and Larmour looks like he might be something very special so it's not like we've weaknesses across the back three - it's more a lack of experience.

9, 10, 12, 13 all solid experienced pro's and we've the best 10 in World Rugby.

awec

I think we'll hit the 18 no bother tbh.

No thread for the Main Event in an hour or so, or even a general Autumn Internationals thread?

Kevski

Basil3 wrote: »

No thread for the Main Event in an hour or so, or even a general Autumn Internationals thread?

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057922468/5/#post108565457

Kevski

Kevski wrote: »

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057922468/5/#post108565457

Ah thanks. Took the thread title too literally, I guess

realhorrorshow

Can anyone suggest a pub in cork city for the match please?

Mookie Blaylock

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Can anyone suggest a pub in cork city for the match please?

Reardons

bilston

This should be a good match. Argentina have some good exciting young backs. They'll have prepared well. Ireland by 8.

Pauliedragon

I wonder if some of the players will have one eye on next week. NZ is the big one even though they wont admit it publicly. The kiwis are losing as I type I hope they win because I don't want to be playing a wounded ABs side. They don't lose 2 in a row.

Mookie Blaylock

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I wonder if some of the players will have one eye on next week. NZ is the big one even though they wont admit it publicly. The kiwis are losing as I type I hope they win because I don't want to be playing a wounded ABs side. They don't lose 2 in a row.

They're winning now...so it'll only be one in a row by the end of next weekend

Got a last minute ticket so on the way in now. Really looking forward to this, think this is a fantastic team on paper. Hopefully both sides show up and play a bit.

2smiggy

I enjoy listening to Stephen Ferris, talks a lot of sense

Mookie Blaylock

2smiggy wrote: »

I enjoy listening to Stephen Ferris, talks a lot of sense

Said no one ever

Mantis Toboggan

Ireland should have far too much, Ireland by 20.

Mookie Blaylock

Henshaw out...ouch!

Sanjuro

Looks like Henshaw’s out, Addison is in.

Mookie Blaylock

Stephen Ferris, Brent Pope...and Bilbo Baggins?

Shefwedfan

Henshaw out confirmed,,,,

Wonder will he make next week, looked like hamstring gone

Shefwedfan

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

Stephen Ferris, Brent Pope...and Bilbo Baggins?

Ferris and Bilbo dont like each other

tototoe

The rte commentators get far too much time to talk sh!te before and after games imo.

Tough about henshaw though.

Mookie Blaylock

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ferris and Bilbo dont like each other

Can't blame Bilbo...never trust an Ork!

Shefwedfan

One of the other Baggins is out on the pitch now

dublinman1990

How is Channel 4's coverage of the match so far; is it good?

Losing Henshaw leaves us vulnerable. Our defence in 2015 from midfield out was far too narrow and Argentina ran around us all day.

RTE player the biggest pile of shíte, dodgy stream more reliable.

thomond2006

Are the Gardai band way out of tune for the Argie anthem or is it just me?

fitz

Into the second movement of the Argie anthem, only another 5 minutes to go...

Larbre34

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are the Gardai band way out of tune for the Argie anthem or is it just me?

Nope, its an odd composition, but then wecan hardly talk.

its_phil

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

Can't blame Bilbo...never trust an Ork!

Not enough appreciation for this comment IMO

enda1

Love seeing Bundee Aki singing the anthem!

vienne86

Garda band looks depleted. Must be getting ready for tomorrow with the Army band.

2smiggy

Any c4 hd on sky?

Mookie Blaylock

2smiggy wrote: »

Any c4 hd on sky?

Only if you pay extra for it in afraid

Squidgy Black

Henshaw out, Addison in.

clsmooth

Jaysus Aki sporting a couple of black eyes. Even Leavy looks less beat up :eek:

What happened Henshaw?

griffinlee

What a rise for Addison

Jesus did Aki and Marmion have a disagreement on the plane?

Mookie Blaylock

Celia Tight Eyeball wrote: »

What happened Henshaw?

Pulled his hammy jogging on the pitch it looked like

The Dagestani Eagle

enda1 wrote: »

Love seeing Bundee Aki singing the anthem!

Such a shame

Mookie Blaylock

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jesus did Aki and Marmion have a disagreement on the plane?

No, they're forming a tribute act, "The black eyed Peas"

Ref is a buff looking dude

Larbre34

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jesus did Aki and Marmion have a disagreement on the plane?

From Maynooth? Flash b@stards.

Clegg

Henshaw was one of our best players when we beat NZ. Desperately need him fit and r next week.

vienne86

Bloody hell. That was a great kick.