Over-priced consumer technology?

Hector Savage

wexie wrote: »

How old were you when you realized you could watch pornhub on your smarttv?

I was today years old

Make sure you clear the history tho, websites appearing on the smart TV menu ... can be embarrassing when a big cock appears when the mother in law is looking for Coronation street ...

Doctor Jimbob

Reina Incalculable Serpent wrote: »

It used to be that budget phones ran outdated and bloated versions of Android, and had cheap plastic builds, bad screens, terrible cameras, and minimal internal storage. But now you can get the 64 GB Motorala G6 unlocked for a fraction of the price of the latest iPhone, and it's a "good enough" phone for most people. It even takes dual SIMs.

IMO, many people buy iPhones not because they need all the features that an iPhone offers (which many iPhone owners would struggle to list) but because of they perceive owning an iPhone to be a status symbol.

To be fair, I think a lot of people buy them at this stage because they're used to the OS and don't want to go through the hassle of learning how to use something different, which is fair enough really.

inforfun

I deal with mac users quite often for work.
That is for a big part responsible that i will never buy anything Apple.

For whatever reason they are the only people who feel the need to start he conversation with: I try to do X or Y on ....... and then it starts: my 27‑inch iMac with Retina 5K display 3.5GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz. But always fail to answer: What OS are you running?

I dont want to run the risk to turn into that kind of person.

Other than that.... some products are just "finished". No matter what you do, you will probably only make the look better but not better quality.

Still using my 12 year old LCD because the picture is as good as it ever was and most of the sources dont require me to have a 4k or more screen.

I replace when something breaks down. I dont buy because a newer version is out.
More people should be like that i think. Keeps debt low.

Hector Savage

murpho999 wrote: »

X Box One X games are 4k.

Also, Netflix originals, of which I watch plenty, are 4k and some are HDR. You need to have Netflix Premium.

Sky broadcast 4k Premiership and programmes too.

Not true 4K on Netflix tho .... I think right now the only real 4K source is a 4k BluRay player ...

murpho999

This constant iPhone vs Android battle is painful at this stage.

Same lines gets trotted out by both sides all the time.
I’ve been using iPhones for years as I like the design of their phones and I just prefer iOS. I like how it operates and links with other devices.
I’ve tried Android and it’s fine but I just preferred how iOS worked. So a personal choice for me.

Android users to me also act as if they are technological genius and iPhone users are just idiots who don’t know how to use technology and therefore overpay for their phones.
So my point is if you like android, then that’s fine, use your android phone and if you like iOS then use an iPhone. Simple. Why would you care what phone people use.

Also, can people stop comparing Android which is an operating system to iPhones which are actual phones?
People should also stop comparing the iPhone, which I agree is very expensive to a lower end Samsung or other android phone. Samsung’s premium Note phone is also very expensive and that’s what the iPhone should be compared to.
The market is now segmentised and Apple don’t compete in all segments.

I also don’t get the narrative that Apple are an evil corporation that takes advantages of Chinese workers in sweatshops and overcharges for phones whilst Samsung are a benevolent knight in shining armour who release phones for the greater good.
Samsung are a huge corporation driven by making profits just like all other businesses.
They were successfully sued by Apple for copying their original iPhone, which don’t forget revolutionised mobile phones back in 2007, and now Samsung make panels for Apple.

End result is we as consumers have got lots of choices of great phones and everybody can find a phone that they like and can afford.

It’s similar to how cars come in different styles, abilities and price categrories.

murpho999

Hector Savage wrote: »

Not true 4K on Netflix tho .... I think right now the only real 4K source is a 4k BluRay player ...

Yes it is.

Unless you're going to start saying it's just slightly under which you would still need a 4k tv for.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

murpho999 wrote: »

End result is we as consumers have got lots of choices of great phones and everybody can find a phone that they like and can afford.

Except for when they can't afford it. Quite a few low-income people have iPhones on expensive contracts just because it's perceived as a status symbol.

murpho999

Reina Incalculable Serpent wrote: »

Except for when they can't afford it. Quite a few low-income people have iPhones on expensive contracts just because it's perceived as a status symbol.

That's the people's own responsibility.

You can't expect companies to stop offering products whether its phones, phone contracts, clothing or cars because they're expensive and people who can't afford them don't buy them.

Also, who really thinks that an iPhone is a status symbol?

Alun

Canis Lupus wrote: »

The most recent Macbook pro throttles performance because of overheating as well.

That's what you get when you prioritize style over substance and make something so ridiculously thin and compact and put a high end processor like an i9 in it. What did they think would happen?

Stab*City

lawred2 wrote: »

Same goes for pretty much all electronic devices and components

They forgot to read that part.

Stab*City

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

As said above, spend the same on a Windows device as you do on a macbook and you'll get all the benefits of a Macbook and more besides. You're trying to compare the likes of a €699 device from Argos to a €2199 mac. Furthermore macs don't last - that's been an issue for years.

You wont. You'll still be stuck with Windows. All my macs have lasted double what any of my windows machines have lasted.

Grayson

murpho999 wrote: »

This constant iPhone vs Android battle is painful at this stage.

Same lines gets trotted out by both sides all the time.
I’ve been using iPhones for years as I like the design of their phones and I just prefer iOS. I like how it operates and links with other devices.
I’ve tried Android and it’s fine but I just preferred how iOS worked. So a personal choice for me.

Android users to me also act as if they are technological genius and iPhone users are just idiots who don’t know how to use technology and therefore overpay for their phones.
So my point is if you like android, then that’s fine, use your android phone and if you like iOS then use an iPhone. Simple. Why would you care what phone people use.

Also, can people stop comparing Android which is an operating system to iPhones which are actual phones?
People should also stop comparing the iPhone, which I agree is very expensive to a lower end Samsung or other android phone. Samsung’s premium Note phone is also very expensive and that’s what the iPhone should be compared to.
The market is now segmentised and Apple don’t compete in all segments.

I also don’t get the narrative that Apple are an evil corporation that takes advantages of Chinese workers in sweatshops and overcharges for phones whilst Samsung are a benevolent knight in shining armour who release phones for the greater good.
Samsung are a huge corporation driven by making profits just like all other businesses.
They were successfully sued by Apple for copying their original iPhone, which don’t forget revolutionised mobile phones back in 2007, and now Samsung make panels for Apple.

End result is we as consumers have got lots of choices of great phones and everybody can find a phone that they like and can afford.

It’s similar to how cars come in different styles, abilities and price categrories.

Did you see what apple sued samsung for?

In earlier hearings, the court had already determined Samsung did infringe on two of the utility patents in question, which was determined by the jury in the most recent trial to be worth a fine of $5.3 million.

However, the more contentious part of the lawsuit involves the three design patents (1, 2, 3) in question, which describe a device with a black front, rounded rectangular corners, similarly curved surrounding bezels, and a colorful grid of icons.

https://gizmodo.com/samsung-forced-to-pay-apple-539-million-for-violating-1826323484

It was the shape. Apple didn't invent that shape with the iPhone. That's been around for years. Remember palm pilots? Or microsoft who made smart phones before apple did. What happened is that apple patented the shape but no-one else did.

Odysseus Mouse

I have an iPhone, iPad, Macbook and Apple watch. I was more of a fan of Apple a couple of years ago.

My Apple watch slowed to a crawl after a year (series 2) and it's just not very capable anymore.

The iPhone (8 Plus) is...grand. My Mam likes hers as it's easy to use and iMessage and Facetime are solid (only things keeping with Apple). The camera is bad in anything but perfect lighting conditions and worse for portrait photo's.

The Macbook is still performing as good as it was after after the first year. It's 4.5 years old now. They are brilliant machines.

Lately though I've been looking at what I'd do if I needed to replace these. Which brings me to Apple's latest releases:

iPad Pro - they keep going on about how it's as powerful as an XBox One etc, how it can replace a laptop, how it's a pro device for pro users. The one they demoed was the 1TB model which has 6GB RAM. The base model has 4GB and 64GB storage. For a so-called 'Pro' model. It's a joke. It doesn't have a proper file system. You can't compile code on it. It still uses a mobile OS. What's pro about it thing?

The Apple Pen doesn't work with last years iPads. They no longer include an extra pen tip. The pen as increased in price from 99e to 135e!

The wattage of the chargers for such a powerful device are rubbish. A decent will cost you 40e.

The new Macbooks are USB C (about time!), but you can't connect the new iPhones to the new Macbooks. That'll be 30e+ for another cable please. And the USB C cable isn't to full spec (2.0 speeds).

They still sell iMacs with a 5400rpm HDD. Why? Oh yeah, it's cheaper and they'll still charge premium.

Base models of 128GB the new Macbook Air for 1379e. Don't get me started on what they charge for an extra 128GB.

They've actually downgraded parts of their fusion drives and yet charge the same.

5GB of free iCloud space is just appalling.

So after researching all that I'll probably just buy a Surface Pro or and XPS 13 if I'm getting a laptop. And while phones are getting more expensive (why Google?) they're still nowhere near as expensive as iPhones. You can pick up a Note 9 for well under a grand. Compare that to the XS. That's another thing, Apple's product line is awfully fragmented. But let's leave that for now!

Aaaaand breath.

Gazzmonkey

mfceiling wrote: »

Galaxy s9 and the new Google pixel phone are deemed to be better than the latest iPhone.

I find the iPhone to be behind Android tbh. User ease isn't as good. Remember apple making a big fuss that you could slide right on someone's contact to call them or swipe left to text....eh you could do that on Android for ages!!

Samsung looking at introducing a foldable screen next year....Apple will probably make a big song and dance out of this technology when they release it in 2026.

Since Apple use various Samsung components it might happen sooner

Cina

The problem is that Murphy's Law isn't really happening anymore. Gone are the days where buying a replacement device after 2 or 3 years means you get a far superior product in the tech world. Everything has slowed down and innovation isn't really a thing. As a result, technology makers are increasing the prices of their products, because people are now keeping phones, laptops etc. longer than they did before, they have to in order to compensate for the fact that people are buying their stuff less.

What this means is that the consumer is unfortunately paying more for less.

Gazzmonkey

Odysseus Mouse wrote: »

I have an iPhone, iPad, Macbook and Apple watch. I was more of a fan of Apple a couple of years ago.

My Apple watch slowed to a crawl after a year (series 2) and it's just not very capable anymore.

The iPhone (8 Plus) is...grand. My Mam likes hers as it's easy to use and iMessage and Facetime are solid (only things keeping with Apple). The camera is bad in anything but perfect lighting conditions and worse for portrait photo's.

The Macbook is still performing as good as it was after after the first year. It's 4.5 years old now. They are brilliant machines.

Lately though I've been looking at what I'd do if I needed to replace these. Which brings me to Apple's latest releases:

iPad Pro - they keep going on about how it's as powerful as an XBox One etc, how it can replace a laptop, how it's a pro device for pro users. The one they demoed was the 1TB model which has 6GB RAM. The base model has 4GB and 64GB storage. For a so-called 'Pro' model. It's a joke. It doesn't have a proper file system. You can't compile code on it. It still uses a mobile OS. What's pro about it thing?

The Apple Pen doesn't work with last years iPads. They no longer include an extra pen tip. The pen as increased in price from 99e to 135e!

The wattage of the chargers for such a powerful device are rubbish. A decent will cost you 40e.

The new Macbooks are USB C (about time!), but you can't connect the new iPhones to the new Macbooks. That'll be 30e+ for another cable please. And the USB C cable isn't to full spec (2.0 speeds).

They still sell iMacs with a 5400rpm HDD. Why? Oh yeah, it's cheaper and they'll still charge premium.

Base models of 128GB the new Macbook Air for 1379e. Don't get me started on what they charge for an extra 128GB.

They've actually downgraded parts of their fusion drives and yet charge the same.

5GB of free iCloud space is just appalling.

So after researching all that I'll probably just buy a Surface Pro or and XPS 13 if I'm getting a laptop. And while phones are getting more expensive (why Google?) they're still nowhere near as expensive as iPhones. You can pick up a Note 9 for well under a grand. Compare that to the XS. That's another thing, Apple's product line is awfully fragmented. But let's leave that for now!

Aaaaand breath.

Good post, glad to see someone posting who understands the tech, I'm fed up seeing consumer posts that just repeat the same marketing lies foisted on us by Apple.

You're holding it wrong

Hurrache

Cina wrote: »

The problem is that Murphy's Law isn't really happening anymore.

Moore's Law ?

Grayson

Odysseus Mouse wrote: »

I have an iPhone, iPad, Macbook and Apple watch. I was more of a fan of Apple a couple of years ago.

My Apple watch slowed to a crawl after a year (series 2) and it's just not very capable anymore.

The iPhone (8 Plus) is...grand. My Mam likes hers as it's easy to use and iMessage and Facetime are solid (only things keeping with Apple). The camera is bad in anything but perfect lighting conditions and worse for portrait photo's.

The Macbook is still performing as good as it was after after the first year. It's 4.5 years old now. They are brilliant machines.

Lately though I've been looking at what I'd do if I needed to replace these. Which brings me to Apple's latest releases:

iPad Pro - they keep going on about how it's as powerful as an XBox One etc, how it can replace a laptop, how it's a pro device for pro users. The one they demoed was the 1TB model which has 6GB RAM. The base model has 4GB and 64GB storage. For a so-called 'Pro' model. It's a joke. It doesn't have a proper file system. You can't compile code on it. It still uses a mobile OS. What's pro about it thing?

The Apple Pen doesn't work with last years iPads. They no longer include an extra pen tip. The pen as increased in price from 99e to 135e!

The wattage of the chargers for such a powerful device are rubbish. A decent will cost you 40e.

The new Macbooks are USB C (about time!), but you can't connect the new iPhones to the new Macbooks. That'll be 30e+ for another cable please. And the USB C cable isn't to full spec (2.0 speeds).

They still sell iMacs with a 5400rpm HDD. Why? Oh yeah, it's cheaper and they'll still charge premium.

Base models of 128GB the new Macbook Air for 1379e. Don't get me started on what they charge for an extra 128GB.

They've actually downgraded parts of their fusion drives and yet charge the same.

5GB of free iCloud space is just appalling.

So after researching all that I'll probably just buy a Surface Pro or and XPS 13 if I'm getting a laptop. And while phones are getting more expensive (why Google?) they're still nowhere near as expensive as iPhones. You can pick up a Note 9 for well under a grand. Compare that to the XS. That's another thing, Apple's product line is awfully fragmented. But let's leave that for now!

Aaaaand breath.

I owned a surface pro, it's amazing. When you see any of the surface products next to the mac equivalent it really shows how far behind apple is in innovation. I'm constantly amazed that apple don't have touch built into a machine that costs that much.

I should mention that I never owned an iPhone but I do have a macbook pro for work. It's last years model and top of the line. I don't like it. It crashes, it's got an annoying file system, it has a terrible keyboard and in general it's not great. It does look amazing though. I'd honestly prefer any of MS's surface range over it.

Cina

Hurrache wrote: »

Moore's Law ?

damn, things really went wrong for me in this situation.

Captcha

Billy86 wrote: »

It really does mystify me how entrenched sore become in this alright. I get that the casing looks better to some and that others prefer the OS in which case fair enough. For me that doesn't justify the price diff but to each their own.

Claims that the same CPU or gpu etc somehow magically becomes better when plugged into a case with an Apple logo though, just makes absolutely no sense.

Apple design their own CPU's/GPU but dont manufacture them and are actually a few years ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to CPU's. They are as fast as full laptops with fans these days and Apple is rumored to be working on new laptops with hybrid cpu's to include the iPhone ones.

Apples Face ID was also years ahead of Android, most of the android ones are gimmicks that can be fooled by a 2d image and now allowed to be used for things like financial transactions while Apple Face ID was secure from day one.

No Android has 3d touch which I couldn't live without now

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

mammajamma wrote: »

Consumer technologies, generally, have to be the most over-hyped products going, to a ridiculous degree. Are there any exceptions were these things are actually justifying their prices over time? Should people start screaming about the emperor being in the pure nip?

Consumers went through a period from the early 1990s to the late 2000s where they moved from doing almost everything offline to being able to do almost everything online. A lot of exciting new developments took place during that transition: People got used to email rather than letters, looking up information on the web rather than in books and directories, online shopping and online financial services instead of trips to shops and banks, streaming music instead of CDs, streaming video instead of DVDs, social media rather than keeping in touch with everybody individually, emergence of mobile devices so that you could take the internet with you everywhere, etc.

Now the pace of innovation has leveled off, in part because there are fewer things left to create an "online X,Y, or Z revolution!" around. We now take it for granted that we can do everything online from paying bills to finding a date to booking a flight to video chatting with relatives. These things have become normalized, and so the "Wow!" factor isn't there anymore.

That said, I'm not sure what you mean about "these things actually justifying their prices over time." Computers are cheaper and more useful than they've ever been. Many people carry smartphones in their back pockets today that are many times more powerful than supercomputers that cost millions just a few decades ago. Plus, we are more dependent on our devices than we ever have been.

Plus, you don't need a €2,000 Macbook and a €1,000 iPhone to have highly useful tech at your fingertips, any more than you need a top of the line BMW or Audi to get around. You can do a hell of a lot with a €200 Chromebook and a €150 phone. In fact, the major change I've noticed in recent years is that the tech in the "budget" end of the spectrum has become pretty good, and is making more people question the premium pricing at the top end.

Grayson

Cina wrote: »

damn, things really went wrong for me in this situation.

That's Murphys law for you.

scamalert

its not overpriced just using common sense really, you have kids now who dont know anything but apple so do adults that fork out stupid amount of money yes theres some advanced tech but most 300e phones have that as well, and its usually wasted on snapchat and playing some crappy games nowadays. smart people shop, not so bright just follow brands and fashions.

Stratvs

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

To be fair, I think a lot of people buy them at this stage because they're used to the OS and don't want to go through the hassle of learning how to use something different, which is fair enough really.

I guess that's where I'm at. First iPhone was 4S, now up to a 6. Only got the 6 this year, don't need anything newer and upgrade is usually either no charge or very little (on €30pm plan) Every 2 yrs as I upgrade herself gets the previous one. Both have iPads. Find the interface easy as similar on both and am comfortable with it. Couldn't be bothered going through hassle of switching to Android at this point. ( does that make me an apathetic fanboy :rolleyes:)

joe40

scamalert wrote: »

its not overpriced just using common sense really, you have kids now who dont know anything but apple so do adults that fork out stupid amount of money yes theres some advanced tech but most 300e phones have that as well, and its usually wasted on snapchat and playing some crappy games nowadays. smart people shop, not so bright just follow brands and fashions.

This 100%. My Daughter got her first phone about 3 years ago, a cheap Samsung for less than 150 euro, she does exactly the same things as her friends, some of or whom have much more expensive phones.
Thankfully she has some appreciation of the value of money, so never put pressure on for the "trendy" phones.
Clever marketing is driving a lot of this cost, not any significant technological benefits.

CrankyHaus

A lot of this thread seems to be focused on Apple, which is kind of fair. They changed from coming out with one market changing product after another under Jobs to their current situation where the best they can do is buy Beats branding from Dre to sell overpriced headphones. The only cutting edge product they still have that lacks better and cheaper competition that I can think of is Airpods, and that won't last long.

Phones, computers and TVs are all fairly mature markets by now and I wouldn't expect much more life-changing stuff there.

Tech is really pushing the Internet of Things as the next transformational tech market. It will probably happen but I wonder if there will be a counter-swing towards privacy and security. People are getting more and more concerned about things like Alexa recording them, nations are getting more concerned about foreign tech companies in their IT infrastructure (eg Australia and the US towards the Chinese). I wonder how people would feel about setting their utilities through their smartphone if hackers started cutting off their heat and light or causing their food to rot in their fridge?

Cina

Grayson wrote: »

That's Murphys law for you.

(Pssssst, that was the joke.)

topper75

I feel in 2018 that we are very media-rich, but content-poor.

Most of the offerings on Sky channel listings, even at 'prime' time, are junk.

Most of the internet, especially the content of the social media sites, is junk.

You could argue that the 70/80/90 decades were the opposite. Good stuff produced but not always easy to access or expensive if you could.

We need to get away from this emphasis on media and channels (sharper/faster/louder etc.) and refocus on good content.

Wibbs

CrankyHaus wrote: »

A lot of this thread seems to be focused on Apple, which is kind of fair. They changed from coming out with one market changing product after another under Jobs to their current situation where the best they can do is buy Beats branding from Dre to sell overpriced headphones. The only cutting edge product they still have that lacks better and cheaper competition that I can think of is Airpods, and that won't last long.

+1 I've been using Apple products since the early 90's and while they did have issues and were more expensive it was worth it for the OS and the overall quality and design. Like you I'd also peg the death of Jobs as the start of the decline.

Take their MacBooks. The current range with only USB3/thunderbolt ports. Utter pain in the arse, as you have to carry around adaptors. Hell you can buy docks to make it useful again. Great. :rolleyes: One of their coolest innovations was the magnetic power plug, the number of times my laptop didn't crash to the floor when I tripped over the cable... Now it's another USB3 port. The touchbar yoke above the keyboard is a waste of space and almost useless. Total gimmick. Their pricepoint has also gone daft, paying more for less.

Now compare that to a 3 or 4 year old MacBook. USB 2 and 3, HDMI out, SD card slot, no stupid "touchbar" and a lot cheaper secondhand. Actually prices of their secondhand stuff have increased. It seems people want the "old" tech and more options.

Actually given the choice between any of the current Apple laptop range and a MacBook Pro from 2011 with an i5/7 CPU, maxed out ram, upgraded with an SSD. I'd go for the old-timer. And I'd have all the ports I need(and a DVD player) for well under half the price. The only disadvantage is the older one would be a little more bulky. Speed difference? In 90% of what most people do with a laptop I challenge anyone to see the diff.

TL;DR? Apple changed the personal computing landscape and pretty much everyone else played catch up, currently they're the ones playing catch up.

Greyfox

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I'm not talking about games that cost €10-€15. It's the ones that are €60-€70. They'd want to be brilliant at that sort of money.

Either am I. Games are only 60-70 for a couple of months. You complete them and get most of your money back by sale/trade in or wait for the 70 game to drop to 25, usually doesn't take long. The 10-15 games would of been 70 at one point.

Back on topic it's sometimes hard to break away from loving certain brands. I love Samsung phones and love my ps4... both amazing value for money.. the reality though is I've never had an iPhone or Xbox so maybe if I had either of them I'd be equally happy