Glanbia's new winter milk ,liquid contract Scheme

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

Once you have 2 distinct calving groups you're flying. Calving interval of 371 here on latest report.

369 here 90% 6 week calving ,100% just under 11 weeks .a 6/8 week calving season from early October would be plan with nothing only replacement heifer calves kept from autumn group .your 100% correct on 2 distinct calving blocks

degetme

mahoney_j wrote: »

369 here 90% 6 week calving ,100% just under 11 weeks .a 6/8 week calving season from early October would be plan with nothing only replacement heifer calves kept from autumn group .your 100% correct on 2 distinct calving blocks

I've been following your advice and ideas for a few years now and I think you have the perfect system. why change when what you have is going so well?

Timmaay

Mooooo wrote: »

Only 2 left in our group at winter milk, 4 of us exited in the last year or two, not just dairygold one other was in a clona scheme which would have been better paying. Depends on the prices offered etc or if you find your buying in feed anyway the cost differential reduces. Mj perhaps with your fragmentation it may work out but one of the other issues is different groups of stock and managing them. If I was going continuing in winter milk I would have 4 weeks calving in Oct and 8 weeks in spring and keep it at that.
Edit just on the bad milk price year, 23 or 24 base, the extra feed, work, time etc will still have winter milk under the break even point.

Similar change in our here, the only lads sticking out autumn calving are the older farmers who are happy enough with the extra workload once its spread out and doesn't put them under massive pressure compact spring calving. If someone told me they would pay me a no strings 20k bonus to go back split calving I probably would say no haha, calving in the spring and then milking tad rest the yr is well enough farming for me.

stretch film

Timmaay wrote: »

Similar change in our here, the only lads sticking out autumn calving are the older farmers who are happy enough with the extra workload once its spread out and doesn't put them under massive pressure compact spring calving. If someone told me they would pay me a no strings 20k bonus to go back split calving I probably would say no haha, calving in the spring and then milking tad rest the yr is well enough farming for me.

New scheme requires cow's calving in the autumn.

Panch18

mahoney_j wrote: »

I must be the only fool considering/in the process of going calving and milking for liquid milk ......not with glanbia mind I hear lots talking about getting out of it ,some actually do but lots stuck at it for various reasons .on a bad milk price year an argument I often hear is that a good liquid/winter contract is the difference beteween an ok year and poteintal disaster ..

Now there a post I didn’t expect to see coming from you Mahoney!!!

Coolfresian

mahoney_j wrote: »

I must be the only fool considering/in the process of going calving and milking for liquid milk ......not with glanbia mind I hear lots talking about getting out of it ,some actually do but lots stuck at it for various reasons .on a bad milk price year an argument I often hear is that a good liquid/winter contract is the difference beteween an ok year and poteintal disaster ..

I think it d be a great descion and u won't regret it. I've a winter contract with glanbia. Calving 35/40% of the herd from mid sept to late October every year. I'd be very very slow to give it up. Workload is spread out and calving outdoors in conditions like this sept/Oct was brilliant. The bonus does pay. Imo if doing it u need to do it in a reasonably large and committed way with 2 distinct groups within your herd.

GrasstoMilk

Coolfresian wrote: »

I think it d be a great descion and u won't regret it. I've a winter contract with glanbia. Calving 35/40% of the herd from mid sept to late October every year. I'd be very very slow to give it up. Workload is spread out and calving outdoors in conditions like this sept/Oct was brilliant. The bonus does pay. Imo if doing it u need to do it in a reasonably large and committed way with 2 distinct groups within your herd.

Yes I would agree. It needs to be a decent number of cows 40% I would say. Other wise it's just not worth it. Done it here and yeah the cash flow is great but it's the constant work load that I hated. If we were at it this year I would just find it tough going after the year just gone. No breaks at all. The plan is to milk on up till Christmas, start calving around Jan 20th and have a nice shot of milk going out by the first week of Feb. Work hard for the first 6 months of the year and be able to take it easier for the rest of the season.
Another thing I found was that I was down 2or 3 paddocks of grass due to dry cows. Grand if you're stocked low on the MP but if you're up over 3 you will miss those 3 paddocks when building grass or on the last round. You'd want land away from the parlour or else put them inside while dry = extra work.
You also have a group of cows at full tilt in the spring, you need lots of grass just to keep them going plus lots of quality feed in the yard

yewtree

A few lads around me doing liquid at a bit of scale and they seem to be doing alright. The big question going forward is will coops give suppliers sufficient contracts to make it worthwhile. There is an awful lot of uncontracted milk going in over winter months. And the coops know it's guaranteed supply as it is coming from herds with spread out calving.

whelan2

Has anyone been at any of these local meetings yet? There's 4 this week and 4 next week apparently. What's the thoughts on it all?

Mortelaro

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Yes I would agree. It needs to be a decent number of cows 40% I would say. Other wise it's just not worth it. Done it here and yeah the cash flow is great but it's the constant work load that I hated. If we were at it this year I would just find it tough going after the year just gone. No breaks at all. The plan is to milk on up till Christmas, start calving around Jan 20th and have a nice shot of milk going out by the first week of Feb. Work hard for the first 6 months of the year and be able to take it easier for the rest of the season.
Another thing I found was that I was down 2or 3 paddocks of grass due to dry cows. Grand if you're stocked low on the MP but if you're up over 3 you will miss those 3 paddocks when building grass or on the last round. You'd want land away from the parlour or else put them inside while dry = extra work.
You also have a group of cows at full tilt in the spring, you need lots of grass just to keep them going plus lots of quality feed in the yard

How is your turnover and costs since the shift,up or down?
Are you milking more cows now all spring?
Has the output from your winter number and overall number gone up or down or stayed the same since the switch?

Leaving aside the cost of this extreme year,would you think you are making more profit?
Do you cream off a few grand from April to August to cover the two dry months?

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Yes I would agree. It needs to be a decent number of cows 40% I would say. Other wise it's just not worth it. Done it here and yeah the cash flow is great but it's the constant work load that I hated. If we were at it this year I would just find it tough going after the year just gone. No breaks at all. The plan is to milk on up till Christmas, start calving around Jan 20th and have a nice shot of milk going out by the first week of Feb. Work hard for the first 6 months of the year and be able to take it easier for the rest of the season.
Another thing I found was that I was down 2or 3 paddocks of grass due to dry cows. Grand if you're stocked low on the MP but if you're up over 3 you will miss those 3 paddocks when building grass or on the last round. You'd want land away from the parlour or else put them inside while dry = extra work.
You also have a group of cows at full tilt in the spring, you need lots of grass just to keep them going plus lots of quality feed in the yard

If you get a repeat of spring 18 your up s**t creek though, calving no cows till early March this year given weather patterns and land type here it maddness calving cows in February when they in all likelyhood won’t see grass till late March...

blackdog1

mahoney_j wrote:

I must be the only fool considering/in the process of going calving and milking for liquid milk ......not with glanbia mind I hear lots talking about getting out of it ,some actually do but lots stuck at it for various reasons .on a bad milk price year an argument I often hear is that a good liquid/winter contract is the difference beteween an ok year and poteintal disaster ..

Has its ups and downs. Only thing I would strongly suggest is that you have a separate shed/area for putting autumn calves in January and you don't have spring calves in the same shed as it will increase disease risk. I'm currently coverting a bay in my straw shed into a pop up holding pen for autumn calves so that when the straw is out of that bay it's not going to waste. Also you'd want to be using the best teat dip, lime and have a good weekly cubicle disenfectant routine.

On the plus side you won't be in such a mad rush in the spring and autumn calves are the best calves you ever raised especially if your on a calf to beef system.

Oh and good luck

GrasstoMilk

Mortelaro wrote: »

How is your turnover and costs since the shift,up or down?
Are you milking more cows now all spring?
Has the output from your winter number and overall number gone up or down or stayed the same since the switch?

Leaving aside the cost of this extreme year,would you think you are making more profit?
Do you cream off a few grand from April to August to cover the two dry months?

Only leaving it this winter so I can't answer any of those yet.
Were going to be milking more cows yes so our turn over will be more and hoping to milk majority of the herd for 300 days as we were to get full potential from every cow
Protein and bf are better atm with no fresh cows dragging it down but it might be worse in the spring with a glut of fresh calving cows so might be no better off there

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

If you get a repeat of spring 18 your up s**t creek though, calving no cows till early March this year given weather patterns and land type here it maddness calving cows in February when they in all likelyhood won’t see grass till late March...

Will you not have to milk those cows into January before dry off? You'll need good quality feed for what are effectively going to be stale cows? Would it not be better to calve in late Jan/early Feb and feed fresh cows and let them off to grass when ever you can

Timmaay

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Done it here and yeah the cash flow is great but it's the constant work load that I hated.

Even the cash flow argument I absolutely do not buy, once you are expanding away in an efficient manner (which the majority of grass based family farms who are adding numbers without having to employ any fulltime labour are), the extra profits from increased output will massively overshadow the less steady nature of your income (10big milk cheques definitely better than 12 average one), in any case getting paid across 10months of the yr is much much better than most tillage or beef farmers who have to rely on say just 3 big payments the back end of the year.

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Will you not have to milk those cows into January before dry off? You'll need good quality feed for what are effectively going to be stale cows? Would it not be better to calve in late Jan/early Feb and feed fresh cows and let them off to grass when ever you can

Still doing 1.95 kgs ms here at the minute, usually average 1.8kgs in December and 1.7kgs into January, a hell of a lot easier to keep “stale cows going indoors” then fresh calving cows

mahoney_j

degetme wrote: »

I've been following your advice and ideas for a few years now and I think you have the perfect system. why change when what you have is going so well?

No such thing as the perfect system !!!!!!,I think ....I’m pretty much stocked to max on milk block ,none or very little hope of getting more land next to milk block ,zero interest in long term z grazing .if I can get a decent enough size liquid quota and keep as diligent calving period in autumn as in spring I believe it will be profitable .my main feed will be high quality grass silage ,nuts fty in parlour , brewers/moist grain and beet .no plans to buy diet feeder even tho I’d like one ,only extra bit of kit will be beet bucket

Coolfresian

mahoney_j wrote: »

No such thing as the perfect system !!!!!!,I think ....I’m pretty much stocked to max on milk block ,none or very little hope of getting more land next to milk block ,zero interest in long term z grazing .if I can get a decent enough size liquid quota and keep as diligent calving period in autumn as in spring I believe it will be profitable .my main feed will be high quality grass silage ,nuts fty in parlour , brewers/moist grain and beet .no plans to buy diet feeder even tho I’d like one ,only extra bit of kit will be beet bucket

The big thing imo is being set up correctly to maximize the system and have a big volume. Are u getting a contract? I wouldn't do winter milk without the bonus myself. Have a feed to yield in parlour here and feed beet as well. Beet is great for driving up the milk solids. The early calves are a great bonus for the finishing side of the farm and worth extra if selling this time of year too. A big relief labour wise to have 40% of the herd calved before spring and nice milk cheques this time of year too.

Mooooo

See what winter bonus is available and work back from there. Keep it simple too. Other issues would be cow's bulling inside and having space for them to do so. As said above having extra calf space even over and above what you need to ensure disease risk is minimised as sheds have more pressure on. And while calving outside in a good autumn is ideal it is as likely they may be inside calving as out with the way weather comes. Drying off aut calvers can allow you to build cover in the autumn but increases demand in the spring significantly as they will have full appetites. In your situation with outside blocks it may well pay off. The other thing, dunno if it's an issue with your part of the country, is if there is a tb breakdown etc, and managing extra stock if it rolls into the calving periods etc. Milking thru Xmas as well on the home front, it's different when fresh calvers and calves are there as well, adds the extra bit of work.

farisfat

I don't think I could milk cows 365 days...I like my 4 or 5 weeks to put on a belly and spend lots of time with family.

mahoney_j

farisfat wrote: »

I don't think I could milk cows 365 days...I like my 4 or 5 weeks to put on a belly and spend lots of time with family.

I don’t and won’t be doing all milkings ,I have full time guy in spring and after that he dose a min of 4 milkings a week ,I’m talking about 2 runs of parlour 28 cows .1 hour a day max for milking and wash up from Xmas week to early feb when spring calving starts .

Coolfresian

mahoney_j wrote: »

I don’t and won’t be doing all milkings ,I have full time guy in spring and after that he dose a min of 4 milkings a week ,I’m talking about 2 runs of parlour 28 cows .1 hour a day max for milking and wash up from Xmas week to early feb when spring calving starts .

I wouldnt place to much emphasis on perceived extra time working at winter milk, if anything I think u l have more time off in spring and summer. Ur in the yard daily anyhow checking stock, feeding, etc, what's a few more minutes in the parlour? If u have a good parlour with lots of units you'll be no length milking. It takes me 40 mins to milk 80 cows in winter with 4 rows. I milk at 6.30am and 4.15 pm. Out of yard by 5.30/6 at latest. Every 2nd weekend off over winter. With a full time worker working with u I think it d be a no brainer.

Also, If u get a wet or very dry summer like we had this year, it's a big help for the grazing platform being able to dry off some of the herd in late July. Big saving on grass. I would not be able to carry the same numbers if on a spring only calving system. It all depends on the farm but do your figures and go from there.

whelan2

farisfat wrote: »

I don't think I could milk cows 365 days...I like my 4 or 5 weeks to put on a belly and spend lots of time with family.

It's great to get out of the house for an hour to milk on christmas day, clears the head, although I might bring abottle of beer with me

stretch film

mahoney_j wrote: »

No such thing as the perfect system !!!!!!,I think ....I’m pretty much stocked to max on milk block ,none or very little hope of getting more land next to milk block ,zero interest in long term z grazing .if I can get a decent enough size liquid quota and keep as diligent calving period in autumn as in spring I believe it will be profitable .my main feed will be high quality grass silage ,nuts fty in parlour , brewers/moist grain and beet .no plans to buy diet feeder even tho I’d like one ,only extra bit of kit will be beet bucket

i think you need to go lie down

stretch film

stretch film wrote: »

i think you need to go lie down

This thread was started as a result of the restructuring of glanbias liquid pool accelerated by their refusal to match/beat a competitors tender for a major contract for own brand milk with a major supermarket chain.

If they felt they couldnt squeeze their suppliers enough to make it pay then either theres been a sea change in their ethos or there really is fek all out of it .

either way id think twice and then trice before id change what you have

mahoney_j

stretch film wrote: »

This thread was started as a result of the restructuring of glanbias liquid pool accelerated by their refusal to match/beat a competitors tender for a major contract for own brand milk with a major supermarket chain.

If they felt they couldnt squeeze their suppliers enough to make it pay then either theres been a sea change in their ethos or there really is fek all out of it .

either way id think twice and then trice before id change what you have

Not changing simply adding ,decision will be made on strength and volume of contract offered

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not changing simply adding ,decision will be made on strength and volume of contract offered

But if you're maxed out with what numbers you can milk on land around parlour how will it add anything? Apart from a few bigger milk cheques over the winter

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

But if you're maxed out with what numbers you can milk on land around parlour how will it add anything? Apart from a few bigger milk cheques over the winter

Spread workload and take a massive pressure point away from spring will also allow every cow to be milked to 300/310 days ,more milk and more milk solids sold .infrastructure all in place it will also allow me make better use (and hold onto )the guy I already have .

charolais0153

mahoney_j wrote: »

Spread workload and take a massive pressure point away from spring will also allow every cow to be milked to 300/310 days ,more milk and more milk solids sold .infrastructure all in place it will also allow me make better use (and hold onto )the guy I already have .

How many more cows you gonna add? Clever idea imo if you can get a good enough premium for the winter milk.

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

Spread workload and take a massive pressure point away from spring will also allow every cow to be milked to 300/310 days ,more milk and more milk solids sold .infrastructure all in place it will also allow me make better use (and hold onto )the guy I already have .

I calve around 45 in the autumn all outside weather permitting, bought in an extra 8 fresh calved ones too. Calved 125 last spring and it near killed me. Autumn calving is so much more relaxed for me anyway.