Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Luas _ Whats next?

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    After Metrolink is built, I would love to see luas continue from harcourt down Adelaide Rd. onto Leeson st. to UCD, possibly elevated past Donnybrook. It's only a couple of km but would make a massive difference!


  • Options
    #33
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,127 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That "Clondalkin" station is a joke, impossible to get to from anywhere actually in Clondalkin except by car, surrounded by absolutely no housing at all. Even the unopened Kishoge station is slightly better in that regard.

    All future investment in rail in Dublin needs to be underground. Each "upgrade" of the Luas has just made the existing slow and crowded services even slower and more crowded.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #34
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Last Stop wrote: »
    After Metrolink is built, I would love to see luas continue from harcourt down Adelaide Rd. onto Leeson st. to UCD, possibly elevated past Donnybrook. It's only a couple of km but would make a massive difference!

    To be honest UCD would probably be still better served by bus if that were to happen. Between the 39a, 46a and 145 UCD is very well served by bus which would likely be quicker than any Luas detouring around Harcourt Street resources would be better placed elsewhere. I don't agree with building rail infrastructure for the sake of it some people are of the opinion that rail based transport is automatically better than bus transport but I would somewhat disagree. I don't care if I'm served by bus, train, tram or underground/metro as long as I'm adquently served by a service that is fast, frequent, affordable and reliable.

    I wouldn't support anymore Luas Green Line expansion until after Metrolink is built as it is at capacity at the moment. Finglas and Bray should be built but not until the Metrolink is built and the line from Sandyford to Charlemont is upgraded.


  • Options
    #35
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    bk wrote: »
    Ignoring the Green Luas line that now goes well into North Dublin, the DART line that goes through North Dublin including some more interesting areas and the two train lines that go through West Dublin.

    And the plan to pour 3 billion into a Metro line through north Dublin to Swords and to spend 2 billion DARTifying thus two Western lines and Northern line.

    The Green line is pretty good, full credit to that. Although it should be said that the areas the green line goes through have been undergoing gentrification for years now, the same goes for Tallaght. It's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario, nobody is disputing that the house price acceleration granted by the Luas construction is a factor but it was already happening beforehand.

    If and when Metro and the DARTificiation of the other lines happen, then I'll stand corrected. I seriously doubt they will.
    XPS_Zero wrote: »
    Irish people annoy the hell out of me sometimes.


    They complain they don't wanna live in apts, cos they want a garden..but there being no room for any more houses with gardens in Dublin, we got way more spread out housing estates south and west of Dublin than we got new apt blocks IN Dublin (esp with our stupid height limits)...then the same people are shocked that this lower splurged out population density cannot be served effectively by trains and has to be sorted with busses.


    You can't have both the enormous splurge of houses just to get what, lets face it with modern developments, is a pretty mediocre garden most people seem to keep in sj**te condition anyway, AND a DART / LUAS / Metro like link. You can't have both. Pick one.


    There was a Metro West plan and even a Lucan Luas plan is still viable desite Lucans spread out nature but Enda, Noonan and Leo sorted that out quick enough because they didn't understand the difference between an investment and an expense, and decided that they'd decide the needs of people in 2025 and 2030 based on the short term political spending needs of 2011.


    We should revisit both those plans, but they need to be tied to a proper planning system where there is decent population density.

    I want to live in an apartment and be within a ten minute walk of some form of mass transit, it can't be done in Dublin. I agree with you though that people who sound similar to me complaining about public transport but then also want a 3 bed semi-d are delusional.
    Del2005 wrote: »
    It's much quicker than the buses though.

    Wonderful, the Luas is slightly less awful. But far more expensive to build.

    Great job Ireland.


  • Options
    #36
    Keyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭Keyzer


    The real question here is, in its totality, is the public transport system in Dublin up to standard.

    It's not. No where near up to standard.

    25 years ago I used to get the Maynooth train into the city. The train stopped every morning for 5-10 mins due to congestion at Connolly.

    This still happens today. Simply not good enough.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,539 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    To be honest UCD would probably be still better served by bus if that were to happen. Between the 39a, 46a and 145 UCD is very well served by bus which would likely be quicker than any Luas detouring around Harcourt Street resources would be better placed elsewhere. I don't agree with building rail infrastructure for the sake of it some people are of the opinion that rail based transport is automatically better than bus transport but I would somewhat disagree.

    Yes, bus can be very good, but where rail wins, in particular Luas is consistency and reliability. There are definitely routes along the red line where the bus will handily beat the Luas most of the time. The problem is sometimes the bus gets stuck in traffic and ends up taking twice as long. Many people take Luas because it ends up being more consistent. They grab the Luas at 8:30 or whatever and know that the vast majority of time they will be in work for 9.
    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I don't care if I'm served by bus, train, tram or underground/metro as long as I'm adquently served by a service that is fast, frequent, affordable and reliable.

    Yes and I'm lucky to actually have a brilliant bus service. My local bus stop has roughly half a dozen major routes passing it. That means there is a bus by roughly every 1 or 2 minutes, so never a long wait. And then offpeak it takes me just 10 minutes (I actually timed it recently) to get into O'Connell St. and about 20 minutes peak. Really quiet brilliant.

    The above experience is why I think BusConnects would be great for the rest of the city. I've already experienced what a lot of BC promises and I'd love to see the rest of Dublin get it.

    A big reason why my journey is so quick, is the BC like change to the Cat & Cage where they widened the road to make a continuous bus lane, which easily dropped the journey time in half! That was just a 100 meters of road improvement and it had a fantastic effect. Now imagine that for the rest of the city, I think it could be truly revolutionary for buses here.

    Then add greater frequency, bus lane enforcement *, better ticketing and lower dwell time and I think buses could come quiet close to matching Luas for the same consistency and reliability I mentioned above.

    * Bus lane enforcement is an important one, we badly need more hard infrastructure to stop cars entering bus lanes and we need automated cameras handing out fines and penalty points.
    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I wouldn't support anymore Luas Green Line expansion until after Metrolink is built as it is at capacity at the moment. Finglas and Bray should be built but not until the Metrolink is built and the line from Sandyford to Charlemont is upgraded.

    Of course I don't think anyone is suggesting that they happen before Metrolink completes. Though you could obviously start planning once Metrolink is under way. I don't think TII would have the resources anyway with all hands on deck for Metrolink.


  • Options
    #38
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    bk wrote: »
    Yes, bus can be very good, but where rail wins, in particular Luas is consistency and reliability. There are definitely routes along the red line where the bus will handily beat the Luas most of the time. The problem is sometimes the bus gets stuck in traffic and ends up taking twice as long. Many people take Luas because it ends up being more consistent. They grab the Luas at 8:30 or whatever and know that the vast majority of time they will be in work for 9.

    I'm not disputing that I agree that the bus service in most parts of Dublin is fairly shoddy but in some areas there is a good service with QBCs for example the N11 QBC. What I'm saying is UCD is very well served by bus and I reckon could a Luas line to there taking longer than current bus routes serving from the city centre if built.

    What I am is in some areas the bus service can be just as good as the Luas such where you live and on certain QBC for example the N11 QBC in my opinion is just as fast, frequent and reliable as the Dart or Luas and it serves UCD.


  • Options
    #39
    cherryghost
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,133 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    That "Clondalkin" station is a joke, impossible to get to from anywhere actually in Clondalkin except by car, surrounded by absolutely no housing at all. Even the unopened Kishoge station is slightly better in that regard.

    All future investment in rail in Dublin needs to be underground. Each "upgrade" of the Luas has just made the existing slow and crowded services even slower and more crowded.

    Not to mention 0 feeder buses to the Luas. It's ludicrous.


  • Options
    #40
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    troyzer wrote: »
    Wonderful, the Luas is slightly less awful. But far more expensive to build.

    Is building tram track that much more expensive than building a road ?


  • Options
    #41
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    zom wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    Wonderful, the Luas is slightly less awful. But far more expensive to build.

    Is building tram track that much more expensive than building a road ?

    Apples and oranges. The Luas is built largely on existing roads which can theoretically take a bus with some extra paint for a bus land.

    Taking a normal road and adding a bus is likely several orders of magnitude cheaper than adding tracks and all the prep work and disruption that goes into it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    troyzer wrote: »
    Apples and oranges. The Luas is built largely on existing roads which can theoretically take a bus with some extra paint for a bus land.

    Taking a normal road and adding a bus is likely several orders of magnitude cheaper than adding tracks and all the prep work and disruption that goes into it.

    sure, but it can't offer a blip of the capacity of luas without mountains of vehicles and drivers. so luas may be a bit more expensive but there is plenty of bang for that buck.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #43
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,127 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    troyzer wrote: »
    The Luas is built largely on existing roads

    nope and there'd be no point having it if it was.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #44
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,817 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Will the green line remain operational during the upgrade to metro?


  • Options
    #45
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    Simona1986 wrote: »
    Will the green line remain operational during the upgrade to metro?

    Not for two years and I can't even imagine commuting chaos and disaster caused by. But surely people who get dosh for this stupid idea don't use Luas.

    BTW - more Metrolink discussions on Environment and Infrastructure forum: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=887


  • Options
    #46
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    zom wrote: »
    Not for two years and I can't even imagine commuting chaos and disaster caused by. But surely people who get dosh for this stupid idea don't use Luas.

    BTW - more Metrolink discussions on Environment and Infrastructure forum: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=887

    Simona1986 has actually already asked that question there, and gotten some fairly in-depth answers. Basic gist is that the two year figure is a total red herring, and it won't be closed for anywhere near that length of time.


  • Options
    #47
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Simona1986 has actually already asked that question there, and gotten some fairly in-depth answers. Basic gist is that the two year figure is a total red herring, and it won't be closed for anywhere near that length of time.

    I haven't got through discussions on Environment and Infrastructure, but just to answer you here, you can't be much wrong saying "two years", knowing speed and organization of big infrastructure projects in Ireland.


  • Options
    #48
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    zom wrote: »
    I haven't got through discussions on Environment and Infrastructure, but just to answer you here, you can't be much wrong saying "two years", knowing speed and organization of big infrastructure projects in Ireland.

    The plans are already out there for how they're going to do most of the work on the Metrolink upgrade, including building new temporary Luas tracks beside the current Luas tracks, so that work can commence without any disruption.

    The tie in works for the Red and Green line were scheduled to take four months, and they were completed in less than 6 weeks.

    There's a prevailing belief in Ireland that we're bad at infrastructure projects, but we're not. Companies and people in Ireland work on major infrastructure projects all over the world, our expertise is well regarded. The difficulty that we have is getting project out of the planning phase.


  • Options
    #49
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    CatInABox wrote: »

    There's a prevailing belief in Ireland that we're bad at infrastructure projects, but we're not. Companies and people in Ireland work on major infrastructure projects all over the world, our expertise is well regarded. The difficulty that we have is getting project out of the planning phase.

    Project delivery in Ireland in the last 15 years has been in general on time and within budget.

    Compare to Germany at the moment where Berlin's new airport is years and billions over budget and may never be opened. Stuttgart's new hauptbahnhof project is estimated at 75% over budget, and basic motorway widening projects often involve contra-flow for three years at a time.

    As CatInABox says, the real delays in Ireland are the planning approval system, as well as the reluctance of D/PER to commit to very large projects given what happened the last time with cancellation of MN and DU due to the long recession.


Advertisement