Luas _ Whats next?

Bluefoam

So, they've finished the extension to the green line & ****ed up College Green... they now intend to extend that line again and call the extension 'Metro North', as if it was something new, although it is obvious we need a line to the Airport...

So, whats next? When one Luas line is finished construction, we should be immediately starting the next... A couple of cross connectors, or a circle line? Some lines on the Northside... I can't believe there is no plan for Crumlin... a massive place with a huge population, but not transport service to speak of...

CatInABox

Bluefoam wrote: »

So, they've finished the extension to the green line & ****ed up College Green... they now intend to extend that line again and call the extension 'Metro North', as if it was something new, although it is obvious we need a line to the Airport...

So, whats next? When one Luas line is finished construction, we should be immediately starting the next... A couple of cross connectors, or a circle line? Some lines on the Northside... I can't believe there is no plan for Crumlin... a massive place with a huge population, but not transport service to speak of...

Ah, you're way off base on some of this. College Green was screwed up because DCC didn't bring in the required traffic changes.

Metro North was cancelled, the replacement is MetroLink, a high frequency line that travels from swords through the city centre and out to Sandyford. People on the Luas will need to change at Sandyford by exiting the Luas and walking across the platform onto a bigger, faster train. It'll travel under the city at Charlemont, so the green line will run from Charlemont out to Broombridge. The Green Line is going to hit capacity in a couple of years, so an upgrade is needed.

There's not really any extra room in Dublin city centre for more Luas lines. If you think cross city screwed things up, imagine what another line or two will do. There's also not much room on the roads into the city either, but I think Lucan was being talked about.

Bluefoam

So thats it? A bit sad really. I still believe a line disecting South County from the Dart, through the Green & connecting to the Red via Crumlin would be achievable and very beneficial...

troyzer

CatInABox wrote: »

Ah, you're way off base on some of this. College Green was screwed up because DCC didn't bring in the required traffic changes.

Metro North was cancelled, the replacement is MetroLink, a high frequency line that travels from swords through the city centre and out to Sandyford. People on the Luas will need to change at Sandyford by exiting the Luas and walking across the platform onto a bigger, faster train. It'll travel under the city at Charlemont, so the green line will run from Charlemont out to Broombridge. The Green Line is going to hit capacity in a couple of years, so an upgrade is needed.

There's not really any extra room in Dublin city centre for more Luas lines. If you think cross city screwed things up, imagine what another line or two will do. There's also not much room on the roads into the city either, but I think Lucan was being talked about.

Is there a reason why all of the rail infrastructure in the last 100 years seems to exclusively serve a north/south axis?

Places like Lucan and Blanchardstown are still stuck with ****ty buses which take an hour to get into town while we're talking about the likes of Sandyford getting a new heavy rail line when they already have a Luas?

I'm not opposed to proper planning and I'm sure there is a reason why so much of our infrastructure is concentrated in small areas but Lucan/Blanchardstown are massive suburbs only served by Dublin bus.

And before someone brings up the commuter lines, don't. They're crap, infrequent and are at the very edges of both of the places I've just mentioned. If you live in Mulhuddart, you're 5km away from a train station. In my part of Lucan (next to the village) the Adamstown station is 4km away.

CatInABox

Bluefoam wrote: »

So thats it? A bit sad really. I still believe a line disecting South County from the Dart, through the Green & connecting to the Red via Crumlin would be achievable and very beneficial...

Well, there's Dart Expansion as well, BusConnects, the BusConnects Core Corridors project, eventually Dart Underground.

Half of Crumlin is 10/15 minutes walk from the red line, so it's got pretty good connections for now. Agree that it needs to be better, but not anytime soon.

lawred2

Bluefoam wrote: »

So thats it? A bit sad really. I still believe a line disecting South County from the Dart, through the Green & connecting to the Red via Crumlin would be achievable and very beneficial...

The West and North of the city and county would be more of a priority for light rail projects I'd have thought

Bluefoam

lawred2 wrote: »

The West and North of the city and county would be more of a priority for light rail projects I'd have thought

I would have thought buses were suited to West Dublin due to the more spread out nature... Northside absolutely needs better links.

CatInABox

troyzer wrote: »

Is there a reason why all of the rail infrastructure in the last 100 years seems to exclusively serve a north/south axis?

It was cheap. The Dart used the existing rail lines. The Green Line used the old tram alignment.

troyzer wrote: »

Places like Lucan and Blanchardstown are still stuck with ****ty buses which take an hour to get into town while we're talking about the likes of Sandyford getting a new heavy rail line when they already have a Luas?

The Green Line is getting an upgrade because it's
A) required to keep the line running well
Cheap, as most of it is already Metro standard

troyzer wrote: »

I'm not opposed to proper planning and I'm sure there is a reason why so much of our infrastructure is concentrated in small areas but Lucan/Blanchardstown are massive suburbs only served by Dublin bus.

And before someone brings up the commuter lines, don't. They're crap, infrequent and are at the very edges of both of the places I've just mentioned. If you live in Mulhuddart, you're 5km away from a train station. In my part of Lucan (next to the village) the Adamstown station is 4km away.

The Commuter lines are getting turned into Dart Lines, with a frequency/capacity upgrade. Once that happens, frequent buses will serve the lines.

ArthurG

lawred2 wrote: »

The West and North of the city and county would be more of a priority for light rail projects I'd have thought

IIRC Lucan was in line for a Luas until the crash, and unfortunately it hasn't been reinstated into the capital plans for the foreseeable future.

troyzer

CatInABox wrote: »

It was cheap. The Dart used the existing rail lines. The Green Line used the old tram alignment.



The Green Line is getting an upgrade because it's
A) required to keep the line running well
Cheap, as most of it is already Metro standard



The Commuter lines are getting turned into Dart Lines, with a frequency/capacity upgrade. Once that happens, frequent buses will serve the lines.

I hope you're right but I remain sceptical. In any use, a DART on the current lines wouldn't help someone like me.

Chances are that when you factor in the time to get a bus to the DART station and then get the DART in which is almost always going to be a further walk than where a bus can drop you, you probably would have been quicker getting the bus anyway.

CatInABox

troyzer wrote: »

I hope you're right but I remain sceptical. In any use, a DART on the current lines wouldn't help someone like me.

Chances are that when you factor in the time to get a bus to the DART station and then get the DART in which is almost always going to be a further walk than where a bus can drop you, you probably would have been quicker getting the bus anyway.

Of course, that's always going to be the case. For some people, the dart will make sense, for others it won't. Any increase in capacity is to be welcomed though, it'll take people off buses, cars off roads, etc.

troyzer

CatInABox wrote: »

Of course, that's always going to be the case. For some people, the dart will make sense, for others it won't. Any increase in capacity is to be welcomed though, it'll take people off buses, cars off roads, etc.

It does seem unfair though that some areas are public transport black spots, seemingly permanentely.

Bluefoam

It sounds like there isn't much of a plan in place... There should be a mass rollout of trams/trains. As soon as one line is finished, start another.

Bluefoam

troyzer wrote: »

It does seem unfair though that some areas are public transport black spots, seemingly permanentely.

Trains aren't meant to come to your house and pick you up...

lawred2

Bluefoam wrote: »

Trains aren't meant to come to your house and pick you up...

ah here....

CatInABox

Bluefoam wrote: »

It sounds like there isn't much of a plan in place... There should be a mass rollout of trams/trains. As soon as one line is finished, start another.

Again though, there's no room. Lucan is the only one that's possible.

Everything else is going to have to continue using the bus, which they're hoping to improve massively with the various BusConnects corridors.

magicbastarder

troyzer wrote: »

Places like Lucan and Blanchardstown are still stuck with ****ty buses which take an hour to get into town

i know it's not what you're getting at, but there is a railway station less than half a mile walk from blanchardstown main street. granted, it's not walkable (nor is coolmine or clonsilla) for a huge chunk of the population of greater blanchardstown, but i've wondered if the maynooth line is a factor in whether the area gets more rail infrastructure.

troyzer

Bluefoam wrote: »

Trains aren't meant to come to your house and pick you up...

I'm not suggesting they are. But it seems unfair that in certain areas of Dublin you're within a few minutes walk of either the DART and Luas and in others you'd have to get the bus to a crap commuter line.

There's a fundamental unfairness to that and it's not a coincidence that the wealthier areas seem to be hoovering up all of the infrastructure spending.

Bluefoam

There were stories that Blanchardstown centre had capacity for an underground station below where the cinema is located & was developed with this in mind...

Keyzer

I was in Munich last week and, although its an extremely wealthy part of Germany, it's transport system makes Dublin look like something out of the 1900's.

L1011

Bluefoam wrote: »

There were stories that Blanchardstown centre had capacity for an underground station below where the cinema is located & was developed with this in mind...

Like 99% of rumours about underground stuff, it isn't true.

There was an overground alignment from the Maynooth line to the centre site preserved since the 70s until the mid 90s. The site had been been planned for a town centre for that long!

Carawaystick

CatInABox wrote: »

Ah, you're way off base on some of this. College Green was screwed up because DCC didn't bring in the required traffic changes.

In an ideal world, the planning board would not have given permission for a tramline through College green until the traffic plan for the city was developed first,
They also wouldn't allow a dangerous to cyclist tramline be installed, but they were too woried about not having 2 tram stops on Dawson st to worry about the actual issues

The same organisation seem to think only car traffic counts, and that through traffic should be encouraged through the city rather than around the city
http://irishcycle.com/2018/10/23/college-green-plaza-planners-were-wrong-and-their-thinking-would-stop-liveable-cities/

ligerdub

Dublin transport is doomed. It's one large traffic jam and it's unlikely to change anytime soon.

RayCun

troyzer wrote: »

I'm not suggesting they are. But it seems unfair that in certain areas of Dublin you're within a few minutes walk of either the DART and Luas and in others you'd have to get the bus to a crap commuter line.

There's a fundamental unfairness to that and it's not a coincidence that the wealthier areas seem to be hoovering up all of the infrastructure spending.

The luas red line services wealthier areas?

bk

Well beyond the fantastic and badly needed Metrolink and upgrade of parts of the Green Line to Metro standard, after that we are also likely to see the Green line extending into Finglas to the North, extended to Bray to the South and the Red line extended to the East to Poolbeg.

I also wouldn't be surprised if we see the Lucan Luas back on the table and perhaps a plan for the Green line to go somewhere new from Charlemont once the Metrolink is in place.

troyzer

RayCun wrote: »

The luas red line services wealthier areas?

A rare exception and is probably the worst of all of the rail options Dublin has. It takes an insanely long time to get from Saggart or City West into town.

bk

troyzer wrote: »

A rare exception and is probably the worst of all of the rail options Dublin has. It takes an insanely long time to get from Saggart or City West into town.

Ignoring the Green Luas line that now goes well into North Dublin, the DART line that goes through North Dublin including some more interesting areas and the two train lines that go through West Dublin.

And the plan to pour 3 billion into a Metro line through north Dublin to Swords and to spend 2 billion DARTifying thus two Western lines and Northern line.

XPS_Zero

Irish people annoy the hell out of me sometimes.


They complain they don't wanna live in apts, cos they want a garden..but there being no room for any more houses with gardens in Dublin, we got way more spread out housing estates south and west of Dublin than we got new apt blocks IN Dublin (esp with our stupid height limits)...then the same people are shocked that this lower splurged out population density cannot be served effectively by trains and has to be sorted with busses.


You can't have both the enormous splurge of houses just to get what, lets face it with modern developments, is a pretty mediocre garden most people seem to keep in sj**te condition anyway, AND a DART / LUAS / Metro like link. You can't have both. Pick one.


There was a Metro West plan and even a Lucan Luas plan is still viable desite Lucans spread out nature but Enda, Noonan and Leo sorted that out quick enough because they didn't understand the difference between an investment and an expense, and decided that they'd decide the needs of people in 2025 and 2030 based on the short term political spending needs of 2011.


We should revisit both those plans, but they need to be tied to a proper planning system where there is decent population density.

bennyineire

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Dublin people annoy the hell out of me sometimes.


They complain they don't wanna live in apts, cos they want a garden..but there being no room for any more houses with gardens in Dublin, we got way more spread out housing estates south and west of Dublin than we got new apt blocks IN Dublin (esp with our stupid height limits)...then the same people are shocked that this lower splurged out population density cannot be served effectively by trains and has to be sorted with busses.


You can't have both the enormous splurge of houses just to get what, lets face it with modern developments, is a pretty mediocre garden most people seem to keep in sj**te condition anyway, AND a DART / LUAS / Metro like link. You can't have both. Pick one.


There was a Metro West plan and even a Lucan Luas plan is still viable desite Lucans spread out nature but Enda, Noonan and Leo sorted that out quick enough because they didn't understand the difference between an investment and an expense, and decided that they'd decide the needs of people in 2025 and 2030 based on the short term political spending needs of 2011.


We should revisit both those plans, but they need to be tied to a proper planning system where there is decent population density.

Fixed that for ya

n!ghtmancometh

Can add Clondalkin into that too. No bus serves either Clondalkin/Fonthill Station or Red Cow Luas directly either.

Bus has no priority in Clondalkin Village and when it finally gets onto the N7, it has a bus lane that takes an age to battle through traffic exiting the M50 to get into, and is then blocked by idiots in the wrong lane by the time it reaches the Long Mile Road junction. Whoever designed that Red Cow 'upgrade' should be pelted with balls of their own sh!te. Zero thought given to public transport, and not as if it was designed 30 years ago either.

Del2005

troyzer wrote: »

A rare exception and is probably the worst of all of the rail options Dublin has. It takes an insanely long time to get from Saggart or City West into town.

It's much quicker than the buses though.