Wife Spending Issues

facehugger99

A colleague of mine has kids in college.

He said you need to allow a minimum of 10k per child per year of college - includes accommodation, fees, books, food, etc.

With 3 kids, you could be talking 120k. Will you be able to afford this if your wife wants trips to Paris and new cars?

You need to soberly explain this to your wife.

Wanderer78

facehugger99 wrote:

He said you need to allow a minimum of 10k per child per year of college - includes accommodation, fees, books, food, etc.

But but but, we have free education!

punisher5112

Free education if you don't work.

Wanderer78

punisher5112 wrote: »

Free education if you don't work.

heavily subsidised if your not working, even the unemployed pay taxes

punisher5112

Wanderer78 wrote: »

heavily subsidised if your not working, even the unemployed pay taxes

On purchases of course but where did the free money come from....

Ursus Horribilis

€10k per year for a child moving away to college sounds on the low side to me. Unless they are living in a smaller city or town. Going by what other people I know have said, you're looking at €12-€15k.

One way you could approach it is to get her to do the maths. Sit down at a computer or with a pen, paper and calculator. If you've got teenagers approaching the college years, you're going to run out of road soon. So starting a conversation with the question of how you'll fund child number 1 in 1st year is where to start.

I think ultimately, separate bank accounts is going to have to be your solution. For some people, shopping is something they do to feel good. It's ingrained behaviour and something that'll be difficult to simply stop.

The_Honeybadger

Say it’s € 12k per child each year and they each spend 4-5 years in college to do a degree and postgrad you’re looking at €150k to €180k total. Scary!

There would be very very few households in the country with that type of money saved.

wellwhynot

It is hard to know without the figures whether you are being controlling or whether your wife is spending too much. You say she spends several hundreds a month on herself and presumably the three children. I don’t think that is much at all considering she works full time. I easily spend that and more. Children are expensive.

power pants

Wanderer78 wrote: »

heavily subsidised if your not working, even the unemployed pay taxes

That’s really a ridiculous statement imo ,argued by the lazy people who refuse to work and think this justifies their life choice

jlm29

wellwhynot wrote: »

It is hard to know without the figures whether you are being controlling or whether your wife is spending too much. You say she spends several hundreds a month on herself and presumably the three children. I don’t think that is much at all considering she works full time. I easily spend that and more. Children are expensive.

He does say that the kids wardrobes are bursting though, and that they’re regularly throwing out clothes with tags on.

Pelvis

wellwhynot wrote: »

It is hard to know without the figures whether you are being controlling or whether your wife is spending too much. You say she spends several hundreds a month on herself and presumably the three children. I don’t think that is much at all considering she works full time. I easily spend that and more. Children are expensive.

If they have to dip into savings to keep up, then yes, it is too much.

sbsquarepants

FinanciallyFrustrated wrote: »

I am a saver by nature while my wife can only be described as profligate with money and things in general. Any advice is welcome.

Are you a "saver by nature" or are you just tight?

I get the whole needing to have a kitty put away for a rainy day - college fees and all that....but, you can't live in the future, you need to live your life today.
Having a nice healthy bank balance won't keep you warm in your wooden box six feet under!

Your tone sounds very controlling. Your wife works, she helps pay the bills and feed the kids and so on, she just also likes to enjoy the fruits of her labour and there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone gets their jollies looking at numbers on a bank statement.

It's not like she's racking up debts and skipping mortgage payments to get vajazzled!

rob316

You mentioned coffee shops too, I shudder to think what my wife is spending on takeaway coffee a day. Her justification is she doesn't drink alcohol but I'd need to go out 3 or 4 times a month to spend what she does on it.

I definitely don't think the OP is controlling, every family/couple should have a rainy day kitty put away and think about the future. The future doesn't have to be when your retired, OP is just looking for her to have a bit of forward planning.

My mother is the only woman I've ever known, good with money.

wellwhynot

Pelvis wrote: »

If they have to dip into savings to keep up, then yes, it is too much.

Until we see the figures we don’t know. I know people who are tight with money and put a large percentage of their salary into savings every month and claim they can’t afford anything when in reality they have huge savings.

As I said a few hundred a month on one adult and three teens is not much at all. Sometimes you buy kids clothes and they refuse to wear them hence the tags on the clothes.

My spidey senses are not saying this is as cut and dried as the op makes out. There are a few red flags for me. He does all the shopping and pays all the bills and complains about her going to Costa a few times a month.

wellwhynot

Also he said when he looks at his spreadsheet ‘our savings are healthy’. If she works full time and has three children and wants to have a meal/coffee out what is the big deal. She is an adult.

c.p.w.g.w

wellwhynot wrote: »

Until we see the figures we don’t know. I know people who are tight with money and put a large percentage of their salary into savings every month and claim they can’t afford anything when in reality they have huge savings.

As I said a few hundred a month on one adult and three teens is not much at all. Sometimes you buy kids clothes and they refuse to wear them hence the tags on the clothes.

My spidey senses are not saying this is as cut and dried as the op makes out. There are a few red flags for me. He does all the shopping and pays all the bills and complains about her going to Costa a few times a month.

Well I am one of those people who saves a significant amount of my monthly wages(50% of take-home minimum).

But then again it's because I like to have a rainy day fund, Holiday fund & new bike fund. I can physically afford that bike for 6 grand but I won't buy it as it's not a good use of my money. The same way going out every weekend isn't a good use of my money.

People have different priorities. OP's seems very much forward thinking and getting their kids through college.

Emme

FinanciallyFrustrated wrote: »

Thanks, and just to respond here, I do the grocery shopping because I do all the cooking in the house. I love cooking and I’m really good at it, my wife hates it but does other stuff like washing, school run, check homework etc so it balances out. She is more than happy with this and I don’t think its a control issue. She obviously does a bit of top up shopping here and there as well.

The bills are mostly all on DD so not really a lot of work there on an ongoing basis. When I said bills I meant that I take charge of things like ordering oil because she just wouldn’t ever think to do it or even know how to check the tank. I also book her car for services when due and check her tyres because it would never be done otherwise. Perhaps if I wasn’t around she’d have to take on these things but I don’t think she’d appreciate being left with these tasks as things stand in all honesty. Maybe I’m wrong.

The whole point of the thread is that I would like her to take more responsibility and I have stated twice that I have tried to involve her in financial planning but she just isn’t interested. Her mother asked her recently how much our mortgage was monthly and she hadn’t a clue despite the fact that it’s a joint mortgage and the account is on her online banking dashboard. She has never even clicked in out of curiosity or if she has she has forgotten what the monthly payment is. I know that probably seems unbelievable but there you go.

I would love if she took an interest and we could make decisions together. I don’t think I’m a miser and I am not looking to control anybody but I feel my hand is being forced somewhat.

OP your wife has an exceptionally good deal and you are anything but a miser. If anything happened to you she would be completely lost. You do practically everything for her. She sounds like somebody who lived at home up until she got married and never had to budget for rent or take responsibility for herself.

The children's allowance should be put into a long-term notice savings account for the children. End of. It should not be spending money for parents unless it goes on necessities for children.

You say she has clothes in the wardrobe unworn with tags on. She can sell those if she doesn't need them. You don't have to tell her to do it but if you cut off the supply of free credit she should eventually do it. That can be done by making all savings accounts long-term notice.

You and your wife are partners in the household budget so she should take 50% of the responsibility. It sounds like you are taking 90% of the responsibility at the moment. If she doesn't like the responsibility tough. She needs to cop on. She might say that it's coming up to Christmas so leave the changes until the New Year but you need to start making changes now.

Let her manage her own car. Has she ever looked under the bonnet to check the oil and water or do you do that for her as well? Does she know how to check tyres and inflate them to the correct pressure. Change a wheel? (ok I might be pushing things there). However it is necessary to know all these things if you have a car.

Let the heating oil run low (don't let it run out or the boiler might get wrecked when somebody who doesn't understand the heating system tries to turn it on) and ask her to order the oil. You need to sit down together and divide up tasks 50:50.

Somebody mentioned getting a financial adviser to talk to you and your wife. I think that is an excellent idea in terms of planning for your children's college fees and for your long term future.

LegacyUser

wellwhynot wrote: »

It is hard to know without the figures whether you are being controlling or whether your wife is spending too much. You say she spends several hundreds a month on herself and presumably the three children. I don’t think that is much at all considering she works full time. I easily spend that and more. Children are expensive.

What I said was the discretionary spending / luxuries runs to hundreds each month, of course it varies so it’s hard to give concrete figures but I’d estimate it’s running between €100 - €200 each week depending. I’m talking about meals and drinks out, coffees, beautician appointments, clothes and make up etc. There are also a lot of cash withdrawals that cant really be accounted for. That’s not such a huge issue but the talk is getting bigger lately with overseas trips in the planning and changing a perfectly good car for a brand new one.

I don’t see these things as priorities myself. As well as the college which has been well discussed there are a few jobs overdue on the house that we have been putting off. IMO we can’t afford the lifestyle she wants.

I fully understand that children are expensive and I wouldn’t be including after school care, medical, sports and music lessons etc in that spending. I also know they need to be clothed but there is also a point when they have enough as they grow out of things quickly at their age. They each have a lot of stuff they never wear.

I do of course acknowledge that she works full time but at the risk of sounding like an a***ole she earns a modest wage and my salary really underpins the whole household, she could never afford a lot of the things she has / does on her wage.

Reading back I can understand that I may seem controlling and perhaps I need to reflect on that and try to see her side. It seems we have very different approaches to money management and we need to meet halfway. I will say though that we are taking two steps forward and one back in terms of saving and I can see a sucker punch coming when the first child hits college. My wife is totally oblivious or at least pretends she is, but somebody needs to step up and start putting things in place for this.
That’s my main concern. I have no difficulty with someone having things they want and enjoying life once it’s balanced with a realistic plan for meeting future obligations.

sbsquarepants

wellwhynot wrote: »

Also he said when he looks at his spreadsheet ‘our savings are healthy’. If she works full time and has three children and wants to have a meal/coffee out what is the big deal. She is an adult.

This is the bit that caught my eye too - "our savings are healthy" so what the hell is the problem. There's a thin line between "being good with money" and just being tight!

A guy I know all he wants to do is hoard money - he literally will not spend Christmas, works all the hours god sends - 3 separate jobs! His only reason for living is to get money and lock it away in the bank. It literally would not make a difference if he won the euro millions, he's just as tight as a ducks arse - it's a horrible way to be.

(I'm not suggesting you are this bad OP by the way!)

LegacyUser

sbsquarepants wrote: »

This is the bit that caught my eye too - "our savings are healthy" so what the hell is the problem. There's a thin line between "being good with money" and just being tight!

A guy I know all he wants to do is hoard money - he literally will not spend Christmas, works all the hours god sends - 3 separate jobs! His only reason for living is to get money and lock it away in the bank. It literally would not make a difference if he won the euro millions, he's just as tight as a ducks arse - it's a horrible way to be.

(I'm not suggesting you are this bad OP by the way!)

I didn’t say our savings are healthy. What I said was when you look at our income vs fixed expenses on a spreadsheet we are in, or at least should be in a great position.

The issue is that an awful lot of money disappears on all sorts of stuff after that, some of it definitely necessary but a lot of it not so much. Our savings are minimal. My concern runs a lot further than a few trips to costa a month I am afraid.

I’m terms of my own personality I am not a miser and spend money much the same as everyone else IMO.

julyjane

One conversation is not going to change her ways overnight. You have more than one area of concern, frivolous spending, wasteful spending such as kids clothes with tags, needing savings for third level etc.

I would suggest taking the biggest area of concern, savings for 3rd level and getting advice on where best to invest it. a savings account that can't be dipped into is probably best then emphasise the need for you both to contribute to it by standing order. it's just a matter of diverting some of what she spends on them away, like waiting for the sales instead of buying now and returning things that still have tags on.

if you've talked to her about it multiple times already she's probably tuning out by now TBH. my OH probably thinks I'm a spender too but I suspect if he tracked his own spending for a week he'd get a fright.

Paddy Cow

FinanciallyFrustrated wrote: »

Reading back I can understand that I may seem controlling and perhaps I need to reflect on that and try to see her side. It seems we have very different approaches to money management and we need to meet halfway. I will say though that we are taking two steps forward and one back in terms of saving and I can see a sucker punch coming when the first child hits college. My wife is totally oblivious or at least pretends she is, but somebody needs to step up and start putting things in place for this.

That’s my main concern. I have no difficulty with someone having things they want and enjoying life once it’s balanced with a realistic plan for meeting future obligations.

You are not being controlling in the slightest. You are being the only responsible adult in this relationship and trying to budget for your children's future. Your wife is behaving like Mrs Bucket - she wants to lead a lifestyle she can't afford. You said a few years ago you were on a modest wage and ye managed to survive, so your wife can stick to a budget when needed. It sounds like now you are on good money she's like a kid unsupervised in a candy store and can't control herself. She's living in the now and deliberately not thinking about the future so she can avoid reality.

Unfortunately that person is you. No one else can walk into your marriage and make your wife see sense. You are going to have to pick a time when the kids aren't in the house, sit her down and make her go through the maths for college and house maintenance. These things have to be made clear to her -

* she doesn't need a new car

* the children's allowance has to go into a savings account for the children. It is not meant for spending on coffee/eating out etc

* savings should never be touched, unless it's an emergency.

* she cannot go to Paris this year. If she makes a budget and sticks to it all year, she can go next year, with money she has saved herself.

* have four accounts - a joint account into which both salaries are paid and all bills come out of and a savings account. Designate a set amount of disposable income for each of you to be paid into your own personal account. When you have spent your allowance however you want, that's it.

I know you are probably going to shoot down most of those suggestions but there really is no other advice to give. Either you continue to let your wife fritter away the household budget, all the while getting more and more annoyed to the point where you will eventually lose it or sit her down now and force her to see the reality of your finances. You have to be the bad guy in the short term to make long term changes.

Turbohymac

I agree fully with facehugger99 . Open a separate account with a debit card only.. then agree a monthly amount and if she goes over that her purchase will simply be declined.. after all you do pay all household so 400 max per month should be very respectable..however hairdressers..beauticians etc can be 80 a visit .. I think she needs to rethink her spending and debit card is only real fix to your problem..
Thankfully my wife would be polar opposite but not mean just very aware of everything spent. She needs to wake up to reality regardless of what her family thinks.. college costs money cut back on those expensive goodies that she probably avails of weekly

Big Bag of Chips

Healthy savings is fine, so long as they stay healthy and are added more than they're taken from. Savings should be dipped into for emergencies or for big things like house renovations, a holiday, college etc. I can understand where you are coming from, OP. We had very healthy savings a few years ago. Now we have close to zero savings. The reason - over spending. My husband was drinking very heavily for about 2 years. I'm talking 7 nights a week in the pub with between €20-€50 EVERY night being spent, more at the weekends. The household budget simply couldn't afford that. And when we were down to little or nothing in the bank with Direct Debits due to come out, I had no option but transfer money from our savings. Meaning that in 18 months we went from having close to €20,000 in savings to being down to nearly nothing (and an unfinished house).

In my case it came to us almost separating before there was any change. I'm not suggesting you threaten your wife with separation, but you ARE going to have to make significant changes in how you address this. How you have approached it so far isn't working. I think this is going to come to an argument, and you have to stop tip-toeing around her feelings. Her feelings are clearing out your bank accounts.

dudara

wellwhynot wrote: »

Also he said when he looks at his spreadsheet ‘our savings are healthy’. If she works full time and has three children and wants to have a meal/coffee out what is the big deal. She is an adult.

I agree that it's hard to know if the OP is just being financially prudent, or is a miser. We don't know him, we don't know his wife, so it's hard to judge. And I think that the range of responses here show that people have different opinions on what is considered acceptable spending.

However, they are husband and wife. They are a family unit and they have to work together and have a common vision for their family. Otherwise what's the point of being married and having a family?

So at the very least, he needs to share his concerns and get his wife to understand his concerns. Then they can work together to find a way forward. The OP has said that he is willing to find a way forward, a compromise. So it sounds like he is realistic in what he wants to achieve.

L1985

Honestly some people are just bad with money. My Mam is one of them. I ended up setting up a second account for her and a set amount goes Into that for her DDs and savings. What's left in the other account is hers to do what she wants with. Worked really well as she went from being overdrawn regularly to that not being an issue as she can't spend the money that isn't in her account. I still keep an eye on it thou which sounds harsh but my Mam said it was the best thing she ever did as she's happier now knowing what her income level is at. I think with spenders their access to funds has to be limited or they will keep going. Maybe that's something you should sit down with and agree with your wife.... it's a difficult situation thou.

AndrewJRenko

wellwhynot wrote: »

Sometimes you buy kids clothes and they refuse to wear them hence the tags on the clothes.

So then you bring them back and get your money back, or worst case get store credit for future use. Anything else is pure waste due to carelessness.

Dial Hard

FinanciallyFrustrated wrote:

The bills are mostly all on DD so not really a lot of work there on an ongoing basis. When I said bills I meant that I take charge of things like ordering oil because she just wouldn’t ever think to do it or even know how to check the tank. I also book her car for services when due and check her tyres because it would never be done otherwise. Perhaps if I wasn’t around she’d have to take on these things but I don’t think she’d appreciate being left with these tasks as things stand in all honesty. Maybe I’m wrong.

Honestly, OP, to me this would be a far bigger issue than the money; this kind of helplessness in a grown adult would driveme absolutely demented.

Stop enabling her. I suspect her cluelessness about how much money she's spending is just an offshoot of the fact that she has apparently opted out of "adulting" in a more general manner. She'd soon learn the value of what she spends if she had to cough up the cost of a tankful of oil or four new tyres, regardless of where the money came from her account or a joint one.

GreeBo

FinanciallyFrustrated wrote: »

A lot of people seem to be of the view that I need to put the foot down but I really do think that should be a last resort as it will undoubtedly cause enormous tension and resentment in our marriage.

Maybe I'm missing something OP, but I think your marriage is already at this point? You seem pretty tense and resent your wife spending all this money.

All that will change if you bring it up is that she gets to deal with that too. Right now she has all the upside and you have all the downside.

pwurple

Really common, but I think you can approach it without the tantrums as suggested.

1- Make that Common Goal. Retirement or the children’s education...

2 - frequent review of goal. Weekly, after dinner, or when Telly ads are on, open up the apps / spreadsheet and review how you are doing so far this month.

3 - Include some fun in your planning... budget in nights out for example. Book it, or ask her to arrange it. Same for a holiday. Looking forward to something down the road, or planning it often halts the feeling of something lacking for spenders.


Also, I think your setup where one person looks after cars, and the other does laundry, splitting the expertise is both common and efficient use of two peoples efforts. We do the exact same. I know the bills inside out, when contracts are up, who the cheapest supplier is. Makes sense that I do those. Kids homework and school stuff is their realm.