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Religious hate-speech in the UK or fearless speaker of truth?

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robindch


    recedite wrote: »
    The guy arrived on this thread and immediately called me an asshole, which personal insult has still not been withdrawn.
    In fairness, your response did you no favours and was dealt with by your friendly moderators within a few hours of both uncivil request and uncivil response being posted:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108842955&postcount=281

    In future, it would be better to report the post and the forum mods will take whatever action they deem necessary to restore order.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭ recedite


    robindch wrote: »
    it would be better to report the post
    Point taken, and you are correct.
    That said, I've never been one for reporting other people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭ Strawberry1975


    recedite wrote: »
    Point taken, and you are correct.
    That said, I've never been one for reporting other people.
    You sure about that
    Easy thing to do
    It's the living with it ain't easy


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robindch


    robindch wrote: »
    [...] the essence of recedite's claim is that, in the UK, people who self-describe as islamic are engaged in a range of actions in support of other people who also self-describe as islamic - such actions including attempting to delay or pervert the course of justice.
    Well, around a week has passed since the above request and, in line with the recent charter update:
    robindch wrote: »
    If the moderator judges that the claimant has not provided sufficient evidence to defend the claim, or if the claimant has simply avoided or ignored the request to support, then the moderators will make an inthread note that the claim has not been substantiated.
    ....your friendly mod team has judged, in the absence of any obvious effort by recedite to back up any element of the claim with evidence, that the claim is unsubstantiated. Therefore, should this claim be repeated, the mods reserve the right to declare it a dose of soapboxing, and deal with it appropriately.

    Thanking youze.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,014 ✭✭✭ AllForIt




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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,329 Mod ✭✭✭✭ smacl


    AllForIt wrote: »

    Couple of years late there aren't you? Happened in April 2016 according to the BBC She's resigned from the council long since.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,014 ✭✭✭ AllForIt


    No but you see I was just wondering if she could have engaged in a range of actions in support of other people who also self-describe as islamic - such actions including attempting to delay or pervert the course of justice. Surely not, she looks like a peaceful Muslim with that nice hijab she's wearing indicative of a her devotion to Islam and peace. I've no proof to say she ever did but I'm just wondering to myself if she ever considered doing such a thing in her position of power in the council.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,329 Mod ✭✭✭✭ smacl


    AllForIt wrote: »
    No but you see I was just wondering if she could have engaged in a range of actions in support of other people who also self-describe as islamic - such actions including attempting to delay or pervert the course of justice. Surely not, she looks like a peaceful Muslim with that nice hijab she's wearing indicative of a her devotion to Islam and peace. I've no proof to say she ever did but I'm just wondering to myself if she ever considered doing such a thing in her position of power in the council.

    So what, idle speculation with nothing to support it then? Who knows what nefarious plots she hatched during her almost year long tenure in power as one of 48 Councillors for the greater Luton area. You do realise she was 16 when she made the dodgy tweets, 20 when she got into office and 21 when she got turfed back out of office again? What perversions of justice do you reckon she was capable of exactly?

    I'd imagine if you judged the character of any adult by the contents of their social media streams from their teenage years, most of them would be contain plenty of embarrassing stuff. I'd be rather more concerned by the likes of Tommy Robinson still posting hate speech as a supposed 'grown up'


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,621 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    smacl wrote: »
    So what, idle speculation with nothing to support it then? Who knows what nefarious plots she hatched during her almost year long tenure in power as one of 48 Councillors for the greater Luton area. You do realise she was 16 when she made the dodgy tweets, 20 when she got into office and 21 when she got turfed back out of office again? What perversions of justice do you reckon she was capable of exactly?

    I'd imagine if you judged the character of any adult by the contents of their social media streams from their teenage years, most of them would be contain plenty of embarrassing stuff. I'd be rather more concerned by the likes of Tommy Robinson still posting hate speech as a supposed 'grown up'


    Or tracking down his critics and turning up at their door mob handed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,621 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    AllForIt wrote: »
    No but you see I was just wondering if she could have engaged in a range of actions in support of other people who also self-describe as islamic - such actions including attempting to delay or pervert the course of justice. Surely not, she looks like a peaceful Muslim with that nice hijab she's wearing indicative of a her devotion to Islam and peace. I've no proof to say she ever did but I'm just wondering to myself if she ever considered doing such a thing in her position of power in the council.


    "I've got absolutely no basis for saying this but i will say it anyway and hope some of the mud sticks".



    Would that be an accurate summary of your post?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    AllForIt wrote: »
    I've no proof to say she ever did but I'm just wondering to myself if she ever considered doing such a thing in her position of power in the council.
    And so, having this wild speculation with no evidence to support it means that it's an absolute fact that all Muslims in positions of power therefore abuse that power to aid and shield other Muslims?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭ recedite


    King Mob wrote: »
    And so, having this wild speculation with no evidence to support it means that it's an absolute fact that all Muslims in positions of power therefore abuse that power to aid and shield other Muslims?
    There you go assigning a falsified "claim" to somebody else again.
    What you have presented there is known as a "false dichotomy". A classic failure of logic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    recedite wrote: »
    There you go assigning a falsified "claim" to somebody else again.
    What you have presented there is known as a "false dichotomy". A classic failure of logic.
    No, it's more me pointing out how he's missed the point he is responding to.

    He's welcome to elaborate what he meant by bringing up empty baseless and underhanded accusations against someone unrelated.

    But to most of us it seems like it was a very poor attempt to defend yet more unsupported baseless accusations.

    If his argument wasn't what I poked fun at, what do you think it was supposed to be?

    Also, not sure what you mean by "There I go again.."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭ recedite


    King Mob wrote: »
    But to most of us it seems like it was a very poor attempt to defend yet more unsupported baseless accusations.
    If his argument wasn't what I poked fun at, what do you think it was supposed to be?
    It is what it says on the tin. There is a substantive difference between making a specific accusation/claim on the one hand, or just posing a question on the other hand...



    King Mob wrote: »
    Also, not sure what you mean by "There I go again.."
    You know very well that you were unable to quote any specific "false claim" I had supposedly made before embarking on your little witchhunt against me. So you relied on "implications" or "the essence" of my thoughts instead.


    So lets turn this around now, and maybe you answer some questions.


    1. Is it conceivable that a town/county councillor might "look after" their buddies if they got the opportunity?


    2. Is it conceivable that members of a religious community might prioritise "looking after" members of their own community as compared to the general public?
    Have you read the school patronage thread on this forum?


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,621 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    recedite wrote: »
    It is what it says on the tin. There is a substantive difference between making a specific accusation/claim on the one hand, or just posing a question on the other hand...




    You know very well that you were unable to quote any specific "false claim" I had supposedly made before embarking on your little witchhunt against me. So you relied on "implications" or "the essence" of my thoughts instead.


    So lets turn this around now, and maybe you answer some questions.


    1. Is it conceivable that a town/county councillor might "look after" their buddies if they got the opportunity?


    2. Is it conceivable that members of a religious community might prioritise "looking after" members of their own community as compared to the general public?
    Have you read the school patronage thread on this forum?




    Ahem

    robindch wrote: »
    Well, around a week has passed since the above request and, in line with the recent charter update:....your friendly mod team has judged, in the absence of any obvious effort by recedite to back up any element of the claim with evidence, that the claim is unsubstantiated. Therefore, should this claim be repeated, the mods reserve the right to declare it a dose of soapboxing, and deal with it appropriately.

    Thanking youze.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭ recedite


    There are a couple of posters on this thread whose main purpose in posting is to shut down debate.
    And that of course is related to the topic at hand.

    Whether Free Speech is something that should be sacrificed in the "antifa" and/or the "multi-culture" cause.
    And whether by trying to suppress dissent, you only make it stronger.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,329 Mod ✭✭✭✭ smacl


    recedite wrote: »
    1. Is it conceivable that a town/county councillor might "look after" their buddies if they got the opportunity?

    2. Is it conceivable that members of a religious community might prioritise "looking after" members of their own community as compared to the general public?

    Saying that something is conceivable is no indication that it is probable or even possible. For example, there are those that conceive of an omnipotent being who created us and watch over us, but on this forum at least, that assertion is considered specious until such time as there is evidence to support it. As per ohnonotgmail's last post, positing something you might find conceivable that suits your own narrative but has no supporting evidence is simple mud slinging.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    recedite wrote: »
    It is what it says on the tin. There is a substantive difference between making a specific accusation/claim on the one hand, or just posing a question on the other hand...
    Sure. One is a blatant accusation.
    The other is a veiled accusation.

    "Just asking questions" is a pretty classic deflection tactic.

    Also, I did frame my point as a question. So does that mean I can use that excuse too?
    recedite wrote: »
    1. Is it conceivable that a town/county councillor might "look after" their buddies if they got the opportunity?


    2. Is it conceivable that members of a religious community might prioritise "looking after" members of their own community as compared to the general public?
    Conceivable, sure.
    Any evidence that this happened or happens?
    Any evidence that such people have also used their influence to pick on your poor old buddy Tony Robinson.

    I'm not trying to shut down discussion here.
    I'm asking you to substantiate your position and elaborate on it and not just ignore points because you find them awkward.
    But you don't seem willing or able to do that...

    Posting links about Muslims doing bad things and ignoring points isn't really a discussion.
    recedite wrote: »
    You know very well that you were unable to quote any specific "false claim" I had supposedly made before embarking on your little witchhunt against me. So you relied on "implications" or "the essence" of my thoughts instead.
    I specifically quoted and outlined it here:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108863346&postcount=298


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭ recedite


    King Mob wrote: »
    Also, I did frame my point as a question. So does that mean I can use that excuse too?
    You know it; that's why you stuck in the question mark at the end. It's a false dichotomy, also a strawman, almost attributed to somebody else but framed as a question. I can see you are a lover of sophistry.
    King Mob wrote: »
    I'm seeing a load of quotes. Can you quote the specific "false claim"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    recedite wrote: »
    You know it; that's why you stuck in the question mark at the end. It's a false dichotomy, also a strawman, almost attributed to somebody else but framed as a question. I can see you are a lover of sophistry.
    Again, he's welcome to explain how his vague empty accusation is relevant.
    Or you could take a crack at it since you seem to think his true meaning is so obvious.
    recedite wrote: »
    I'm seeing a load of quotes. Can you quote the specific "false claim"?
    The same one the mods asked you to substantiate.
    I explain it pretty thoroughly in that post.

    So again:
    Conceivable, sure.
    Any evidence that this happened or happens?
    Any evidence that such people have also used their influence to pick on your poor old buddy Tony Robinson?


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robindch


    recedite wrote: »
    There are a couple of posters on this thread whose main purpose in posting is to shut down debate.
    I don't immediately recall any posts whose "main purpose" in any plausible sense "is to shut down debate".

    Which ones, in your opinion, meet this criterion?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robindch


    Professor Jörg Meuthen, one of the AfD's lead snowflakes, briefly became incandescent at the appalling news that the famous Toblerone chocolate bar, produced next country south in Switzerland, was certified as halal-compliant.

    "Islamization does not take place -- neither in Germany nor in Europe. It is therefore certainly pure coincidence that the depicted, known chocolate variety is now certified as 'HALAL.'", Professor Meuthen raved.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/19/europe/toblerone-halal-boycott-scli-intl/index.html
    The certification did not result in any change to our beloved traditional Toblerone original recipe [...]


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,446 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    That's why I never see pork flavour Toblerones in the shops any more.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭ recedite


    Atheist and Free Speech advocate Douglas Murray discusses the thorny issue of Tommy Robinson.

    Murray famously labelled the whole concept of Islamophobia as "nonsense".
    And was much admired by noted atheist thinker and philosopher Christopher Hitchins, in his time.
    Of course, the most flagrant offenders against morality and common sense are still the nihilistic pseudo-leftists, who claim to see no real difference between Western democracy and those who desire to murder its voters at random.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 29,588 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha


    Spectator writer approves of Tommy Robinson. Quel surprise.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭ robindch


    After receiving another prison sentence for contempt of court and being sent to Belmarsh Prison, a fellow prisoner - this one an old age pensioner - appears to have taken issue with Yaxley-Lennon's attitude in the showers and decked our fearless friend:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tommy-robinson-punched-prison-shower-18459295


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭ recedite


    robindch wrote: »
    After receiving another prison sentence for contempt of court and being sent to Belmarsh Prison, a fellow prisoner - this one an old age pensioner - appears to have taken issue with Yaxley-Lennon's attitude in the showers and decked our fearless friend:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tommy-robinson-punched-prison-shower-18459295
    Except that's all nonsense. You should be more careful with your sources, so you don't perpetuate these kind of lies. TR is actually being held in an isolation unit.
    For a more reliable account of his conditions, see here...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlkOYhqV_Z8


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 29,588 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha


    recedite wrote: »
    Except that's all nonsense. You should be more careful with your sources, so you don't perpetuate these kind of lies. TR is actually being held in an isolation unit.
    For a more reliable account of his conditions, see here...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlkOYhqV_Z8

    What makes this more reliable, exactly? Hopefully more than just your confirmation bias.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    instead of taking the daily mirror at face value, please take someone's youtube channel at face value.
    and a US based one at that?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,446 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    recedite wrote: »
    Except that's all nonsense. You should be more careful with your sources, so you don't perpetuate these kind of lies. TR is actually being held in an isolation unit.
    For a more reliable account of his conditions, see here...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlkOYhqV_Z8

    So your vow to not post here again was another lie mis-statement, then :)


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