Taxi driver got lost then tried to charge more

Desiree Burch

Got a taxi recently, we agreed a price of €100 before we set off. I paid by card so have proof of payment. Driver got lost a few times but got there in the end but he wanted another €60 off me. I refused and got out and left. He reported me to the Gardai for this. Guard rings me to go in a make a statement which I did. Showed them my bank statement confirming I paid.

Surely it's not my fault he got lost?

magicbastarder

doesn't matter if he got lost, he knew the destination and had agreed a price?
were the gardai happy with your explanation?

Wheety

You should be ok. It's his fault he got lost, unless you were giving him directions?

See how much the estimated fare is here

https://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/taxi-fare-estimator/

coylemj

It's the taxi driver's problem once the price was agreed in advance. I really don't know what sort of story he spun to the Gardai, they should have told him it is a civil matter, given that you paid him the pre-agreed fare.

Frankly I'm amazed that a Garda bothered to sit down and take a statement from you for such a trivial matter. How long after the event did the Garda phone you to go in and make a statement? I'd strongly suspect the Garda and the taxi driver are drinking buddies.

antoinolachtnai

Was the taxi meter running? What did it read at the end?

What would the fare on the taximeter have been If he hasn’t gotten lost?

What if anything was put in writing before the journey began?

goat2

Did this taxi driver not have one of those google tom tom devices to direct him to the destination, and anyway he should have known fastest easiest route, it is his job to know

Peintre Celebre

coylemj wrote: »

It's the taxi driver's problem once the price was agreed in advance. I really don't know what sort of story he spun to the Gardai, they should have told him it is a civil matter, given that you paid him the pre-agreed fare.

Frankly I'm amazed that a Garda bothered to sit down and take a statement from you for such a trivial matter. How long after the event did the Garda phone you to go in and make a statement? I'd strongly suspect the Garda and the taxi driver are drinking buddies.

Your strong suspicion is way off id imagine. Prob a young Garda unsure and covering their arse ffs

Odyssey 2005

Desiree Burch wrote: »

Got a taxi recently, we agreed a price of €100 before we set off. I paid by card so have proof of payment. Driver got lost a few times but got there in the end but he wanted another €60 off me. I refused and got out and left. He reported me to the Gardai for this. Guard rings me to go in a make a statement which I did. Showed them my bank statement confirming I paid.

Surely it's not my fault he got lost?

Where did he come up with the €60 figure ?.
For that money he must have gone into the next count and got lost. Can't figure why the garda called you. Taximen mistake,I'd be telling him to PFO.

Desiree Burch

There was no meter in the car. The guard rang me during the week. This happened in June! Guard says it’s uo to the super as to what happens and then asks me would I be willing pay the fare. He then says you might get an adult caution if it doesn’t go my way. The driver wouldn’t listen to my directions instead he was using his phone but to no avail.

Absolutely ridiculous. Waste of everyone’s time.

thomasj

Desiree Burch wrote:

There was no meter in the car. The guard rang me during the week. This happened in June! Guard says it’s uo to the super as to what happens and then asks me would I be willing pay the fare. He then says you might get an adult caution if it doesn’t go my way. The driver wouldn’t listen to my directions instead he was using his phone but to no avail.

Its a requirement of any taxi driver to have a meter in his car end of story. If this is the case, it would need to be reported to the taxi regulator.

daheff

at this point i'd be making an official complaint to the taxi regulator.

cant have this kind of carry on happening.

the fact you prepaid the fare should be enough to show you are in the right.

I would guess the taxi man & garda are related parties. Ridiculous that the guard would effectively 'threaten' you with an adult caution if you don't pay the fare.

BowWow

I had an issue a few years ago with a taxi driver overcharging. Reported it online (Cant remember, but think it was to Dept.of Transport), painless process, received a refund payable by postal order. They had called in driver, interviewed him and advised him to make the refund.

Whilst you didn't pay the extra, you should still register the issue.

Gael23

I would report that to the taxi regulator

Odyssey 2005

Op. Was it a taxi or a Hackney, not that it makes any difference. You both agreed the price,you prepaid and the clown got lost,now he's trying to scam(bully) you out of €60. Next stop for you is the taxi regulator. You have nothing to fear here,the copper shouldn't even be involved.

Hack12

(1) If it is a taxi the driver and passenger agree a rate and are required to have it written down and signed by the driver and passenger. Metre is to run and if below agreed price metre applies.

(2) If hackney rate agreed and driver to have it noted prior to driving.

Desiree Burch

It was a taxi at a rank.

Thanks for the replies, saves me a lot of worrying.

coylemj

Desiree Burch wrote: »

There was no meter in the car.

Desiree Burch wrote: »

It was a taxi at a rank.

And yet the cops offered you an adult caution because you refused to pay for the driver's mystery tour?

This stinks to high heaven. If a PSV does not have a meter then its a hackney...

Hackneys and limousines: Drivers may not charge more than the agreed fare and must give customers a written receipt.

https://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/faqs/

GM228

Hack12 wrote: »

(1) If it is a taxi the driver and passenger agree a rate and are required to have it written down and signed by the driver and passenger. Metre is to run and if below agreed price metre applies.

(2) If hackney rate agreed and driver to have it noted prior to driving.

There is no requirement to write it down and sign beforehand, you can agree verbally. In fact if you agree a fare and the driver attempts to charge you more (including whatever may be on the meter) the driver commits a criminal offence, if I were the OP I'd be reminding the Guard of this fact.

The only exception to this where the driver can charge more than agreed is when adding a credit card charge, soiling charge or any toll fees.

Desiree Burch

The driver told me he wanted another €60 but told the guard he wanted another €100.

I don’t understand it.

It wasn’t a hackney it was a taxi at a rank. He was the third one I went to as the first few drivers didn’t want to travel that far.

The only reason the guard got in touch with me was because I went into get passport signed and recognized the name. He rings and says “I’ve been looking for you for 6 months”, like I murdered someone.

iwillhtfu

Desiree Burch wrote: »

The driver told me he wanted another €60 but told the guard he wanted another €100.

I don’t understand it.

It wasn’t a hackney it was a taxi at a rank. He was the third one I went to as the first few drivers didn’t want to travel that far.

The only reason the guard got in touch with me was because I went into get passport signed and recognized the name. He rings and says “I’ve been looking for you for 6 months”, like I murdered someone.

Tell the garda to cop on he's not bloody private investigator don't pay any money to the taxi driver either. Report it to the taxi regulator and I'd also be reporting it to the garda ombudsmen as he's basically threatening you with an adult caution. It smacks of the taxi man knows the garda there's no way a run of the mill garda would remember your name after a week never mind 4 months later.

antoinolachtnai

GM228 wrote: »

There is no requirement to write it down and sign beforehand, you can agree verbally. In fact if you agree a fare and the driver attempts to charge you more (including whatever may be on the meter) the driver commits a criminal offence, if I were the OP I'd be reminding the Guard of this fact.

The only exception to this where the driver can charge more than agreed is when adding a credit card charge, soiling charge or any toll fees.

As I understand it, under the 2015 regulations it is the case that there is a requirement to write it down.

If the credit card payment was made in advance, that would certainly count for something.

Anyway, the meter should have been running.

I think the OP needs to be very careful here and understand the situation in detail. If the taxi driver really wants to go on with this, then a complaint is worth considering.

I don't see much point in a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman. The Garda is perfectly entitled to pursue a complaint.

ConnyMcDavid

Could the credit card payment be seen as a deposit if there is no written agreement?

TallGlass

If I was you I'd would be willing to take this up in court and I would also be onto the taxi regulator and onto the.super of the Garda asking why the Garda are involved in a civil matter.

Taxi driver agreed the fare and is an idiot now throwing his toys out of the pram. He should get on with life and learn not to give low taxi fares out. Clown.

Little Less Conversation

There are so much chancers when it comes to taximen. We should really have Uber available in this country. They wouldn't survive.

Spook_ie

TallGlass wrote: »

If I was you I'd would be willing to take this up in court and I would also be onto the taxi regulator and onto the.super of the Garda asking why the Garda are involved in a civil matter.

Taxi driver agreed the fare and is an idiot now throwing his toys out of the pram. He should get on with life and learn not to give low taxi fares out. Clown.

This plus several million, can't understand why people get so narky when I tell them it'll be whatever the meter says and if someone from their neck of the woods does it half price then ring him up to come get them.

Spook_ie

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

There are so much chancers when it comes to taximen. We should really have Uber available in this country. They wouldn't survive.

Uber use their own meter app on a mobile phone, not certified, they don't use a set price for each kilometer traveled, they increase the price 2x 3x when its busy, you have to have an account with CC set up, but sure let's get an Uber.


Edit BTW Uber are in Ireland but regulations prevent them inventing their own rates unless its an Uber black

coylemj

Desiree Burch wrote: »

It wasn’t a hackney it was a taxi at a rank. He was the third one I went to as the first few drivers didn’t want to travel that far.

Taxis have a meter, he did not (post #9) ....

Desiree Burch wrote: »

There was no meter in the car.

... that makes him a hackney. If even that, did you see a PSV plate on the outside? Hard to see how he could stand at a rank with taxi livery and no meter unless he is a complete fraud.

thomasj

I find it bizarre that he had a cardreader and not a meter.

I have never been in a taxi that had a card reader , they're few and far between.

AndrewJRenko

Spook_ie wrote: »

Edit BTW Uber are in Ireland but regulations prevent them inventing their own rates unless its an Uber black

AFAIK, any driver can set their own rates once those rates don't exceed the fares set by the NTA. Some taxi firms have offered discounted rates. The reason Uber don't operate here is because they can't get away with using unlicensed drivers here, unlike the UK/US.

trellheim

This is very suspicious

A taxi without a meter isn't a taxi and you should get straight back out again. However, it may not have been running or in the mirror or something like that.

Most taxis are starting to have card readers now, as its a requirement for new airport permits. Still a pain though cos cabdrivers do like their cash. They should make it like London where its a rule - black cabs must have card readers.

Odyssey 2005

A taxi on a rank with no meter. I can't see a hack being allowed even slow down passing a rank,never mind pick up on one. Im getting very sceptical about this story.

Desiree Burch

trellheim wrote: »

This is very suspicious

A taxi without a meter isn't a taxi and you should get straight back out again. However, it may not have been running or in the mirror or something like that.

Most taxis are starting to have card readers now, as its a requirement for new airport permits. Still a pain though cos cabdrivers do like their cash. They should make it like London where its a rule - black cabs must have card readers.

It was possibly switched off now that u say it. But it definitely wasn't running. Agreed on €100 before we left and I paid by card. That's where he got my name. He also sent pics to the Gardai.

I just cannot get my head around why the Gardai would entertain this. Calling me in for a statement and mentioning adult cautions and generally making me out to be a criminal.

Graniteville

coylemj wrote: »

It's the taxi driver's problem once the price was agreed in advance. I really don't know what sort of story he spun to the Gardai, they should have told him it is a civil matter, given that you paid him the pre-agreed fare.

Frankly I'm amazed that a Garda bothered to sit down and take a statement from you for such a trivial matter. How long after the event did the Garda phone you to go in and make a statement? I'd strongly suspect the Garda and the taxi driver are drinking buddies.

Not a civil matter as the taxi is providing a service to the public.

That would be like saying shoplifting is a civil matter.

Gardai are obliged to investigate. This was an easy one - get the other side and inform taxi driver that there is no case. Complaint closed.

sasta le

Something doesn’t add up

coylemj

Graniteville wrote: »

Not a civil matter as the taxi is providing a service to the public.

OP did not set out to avoid paying the fare so this is not fare evasion. It's a contractual dispute about the delivery of a service and most definitely a civil matter.

What has 'providing a service to the public' got to do with it? A painter & decorator provides a service to the public but if you don't pay him, is it a criminal matter?

Graniteville wrote: »

That would be like saying shoplifting is a civil matter.

No it is not. Shoplifting is theft involving an intent to defraud which is not present here.

Graniteville wrote: »

Gardai are obliged to investigate. This was an easy one - get the other side and inform taxi driver that there is no case. Complaint closed.

+1

fishy_fishy

A lot of the meters are now built into the rear view mirrors so quite possible it was a taxi with the meter switched off.

Mr.Frame

Desiree Burch wrote: »

Got a taxi recently, we agreed a price of €100 before we set off. I paid by card so have proof of payment. Driver got lost a few times but got there in the end but he wanted another €60 off me. I refused and got out and left. He reported me to the Gardai for this. Guard rings me to go in a make a statement which I did. Showed them my bank statement confirming I paid.

Surely it's not my fault he got lost?

Why did you agree a price ?? All taxi journeys must be on the meter. He/she can give a discount at the end of the fare .
Where were u going to and from where?

Mr.Frame

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

There are so much chancers when it comes to taximen. We should really have Uber available in this country. They wouldn't survive.

and you wont have "chancers" with Uber?

By the way have you got evidence that "there are so much chancers when it comes to taximen" ?

JustJoe7240

thomasj wrote: »

I find it bizarre that he had a cardreader and not a meter.

I have never been in a taxi that had a card reader, they're few and far between.

Lots of taxis have card readers, the drivers would just rather you pay them cash. If I'm in a taxi and not using halo, I'll insist on paying by card rather than him stopping at an a.t.m. I use the "I need the receipt for expenses for work" excuse.

Mr.Frame wrote: »

By the way have you got evidence that "there are so much chancers when it comes to taximen" ?

Searching "taxi" in consumer issues will give you lots of evidence.

Marcusm

Desiree Burch wrote: »

Got a taxi recently, we agreed a price of €100 before we set off. I paid by card so have proof of payment. Driver got lost a few times but got there in the end but he wanted another €60 off me. I refused and got out and left. He reported me to the Gardai for this. Guard rings me to go in a make a statement which I did. Showed them my bank statement confirming I paid.

Surely it's not my fault he got lost?

This is not a matter for the guards as you paid what was agreed. If the Taxi driver is aggrieved then they need to take a civil action. Conversely if you made off without paying at all it would be a criminal matter.

monument

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I don't see much point in a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman. The Garda is perfectly entitled to pursue a complaint.

If what they the OP has said is correct — ie (1) he paid up front and has proof of this, (2) he made a statement to the Gardai to this effect, and (3) he’s not leaving out any details, then the Gardai have zero business interfering in a civil issue.

appledrop

This sounds mad. I know that the guards do have a role to play in non payment of taxi fares + people have been prosecuted in court.

However in this case you paid + what's more the taxi man accepted this amount at the time. I smell a rat. Something not adding up. Taxi man can't have it both ways if he turned off meter than can't back track. Definitely make a compliant to taxi regulator. I'd also be looking into making a complaint about guard. Fair enough he might have had to look into it but the way he went about it is definitely not acceptable.

Marcusm

Desiree Burch wrote: »

Got a taxi recently, we agreed a price of €100 before we set off. I paid by card so have proof of payment. Driver got lost a few times but got there in the end but he wanted another €60 off me. I refused and got out and left. He reported me to the Gardai for this. Guard rings me to go in a make a statement which I did. Showed them my bank statement confirming I paid.

Surely it's not my fault he got lost?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

AFAIK, any driver can set their own rates once those rates don't exceed the fares set by the NTA. Some taxi firms have offered discounted rates. The reason Uber don't operate here is because they can't get away with using unlicensed drivers here, unlike the UK/US.

They can’t get away with using unlicensed drivers in the U.K. either. Uber in the U.K. is basically minicab/private hire drivers (UK equivalent of Irish “hackney”) who prefer Uber to a radio circuit.

OldMrBrennan83

Cop is mixed in with the driver or on the take most likely. I'd like to say you're safe enough as it's ridiculous but that's not how things can go in these situations.

vandriver

".. If I'm in a taxi and not using halo, I'll insist on paying by card rather than him stopping at an a.t.m. I use the "I need the receipt for expenses for work" excuse..."
A receipt is automatically printed for every journey,whether it's cash card or app.

Marcusm

monument wrote: »

If what they the OP has said is correct — ie (1) he paid up front and has proof of this, (2) he made a statement to the Gardai to this effect, and (3) he’s not leaving out any details, then the Gardai have zero business interfering in a civil issue.

Fully agree; once tgecgarda establishing shed that the OP paid more than a trivial amount then this established that it was not an attempt to “make off” or obtain a service by deception but instead a dispute as to the commercial price. That is a civil matter. I trust that the Garda acted without knowledge rather than in. Illusion with the taxi driver as suggested.

Spook_ie

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

Lots of taxis have card readers, the drivers would just rather you pay them cash. If I'm in a taxi and not using halo, I'll insist on paying by card rather than him stopping at an a.t.m. I use the "I need the receipt for expenses for work" excuse.



Searching "taxi" in consumer issues will give you lots of evidence.

Lots do, lots do not, however not having a card machine and the ability to produce a card receipt isn't an excuse for you to not pay as all taxis should have a printer attached to the meter, the onus is actually on you the customer to be able to pay by whatever means the driver needs.

I do have a card reader, however it only works when I have an internet connection which given the state of mobile infrastructure in Ireland isn't a given that it will work in parts of the country.

Spook_ie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

AFAIK, any driver can set their own rates once those rates don't exceed the fares set by the NTA. Some taxi firms have offered discounted rates. The reason Uber don't operate here is because they can't get away with using unlicensed drivers here, unlike the UK/US.

As I said earlier Uber were not obeying the maximum fare order in Ireland by using mobile phones to calculate a fare, that is why I said in Ireland you can still get an Uber but an Uber taxi will ( should be ) using the meter and only Uber Black can work a price without a meter, there is still a concern, which has been raised with the NTA, that Uber Black don't actually agree a fare in advance but are instead giving a rate, which most believe is not in the spirit of having a quoted fare.

trellheim

I do have a card reader, however it only works when I have an internet connection which given the state of mobile infrastructure in Ireland isn't a given that it will work in parts of the country.

Slightly off-topic but if I get into a taxi "do you take cards" ..yep hop in ... and the reader won't connect at the other end I'm not sure I'd look kindly at having to provide cash at the other end . Does the carriage office provide any guidance on that ?

Spook_ie

trellheim wrote: »

Slightly off-topic but if I get into a taxi "do you take cards" ..yep hop in ... and the reader won't connect at the other end I'm not sure I'd look kindly at having to provide cash at the other end . Does the carriage office provide any guidance on that ?

Nope, as usual government departments are forbidden to actually think "real" world scenarios.

vandriver

trellheim wrote: »

Slightly off-topic but if I get into a taxi "do you take cards" ..yep hop in ... and the reader won't connect at the other end I'm not sure I'd look kindly at having to provide cash at the other end . Does the carriage office provide any guidance on that ?

The sum up machine I have(the only machine available in Ireland,I think) routinely refuses to connect via Bluetooth to my smartphone.
However,you are still responsible for the fare,so I would drive you to the nearest ATM,at my expense to get the cash.