.223 Target scope

GolfVI

Hi everyone,

Looking for recommendations for a Target shooting scope for a .223 in or around the €500-€600 mark.

Was thinking maybe either of the following;

Hawke Sidewinder 6-24 x 56
Viper Vortex 6.5-20 x 50

Any suggestions appreciated

Cass

GolfVI wrote: »

Hawke Sidewinder 6-24 x 56

Big fan of Hawke and have the Sidewinder on 223s and 308s for years with no issues or problems.

Prices are in the €420 to €460 mark depending on where you buy. It has all the features you'd want, and won't let you down. On the off chance it does have a fault Hawke have one of the best customer service depts of any scope manufacturer including the high end ones i've dealt with including Nightforce, Burris, etc.

Viper Vortex 6.5-20 x 50

A good scope and well able for the work. Glass is better than the Sidewinder, but not as good as other brands (within the same price range).

Any suggestions appreciated

If your budget is €500 to €600 i'd suggest going for a Hawke but not he Sidewinder.

The Frontier.

A far superior scope than the Sidewinder. It has improved glass, mag, reticle choice and still comes with the excellent support service of Hawke.

Normally they retail at around €750-ish so i wasn't going to mention it, but while looking for a link to an Irish dealer to let you see them i saw Irish Shooting Sports have them for sale at €595. Thats a €150 saving.

BTW i have no affiliation to the shop, just passing on some info.

lefthooker

I recently bought a Frontier ffp and second all Cass has to say about the frontier range but for the zoom range you are looking at this is an even better bargain
https://bradfordstalker.co.uk/hawke-frontier-ffp-5-25x56-sf/

Cass

Not intending to be argumentative but i'm gonna anyway.

The one i linked to has higher mag, is Second focal plane (a must for target shooting as FFP is a pain when target shooting at distance. ) and works out cheaper than the one you linked to (£512 in Euro is €580, and that is without shipping).

Plus if you have any trouble at least you can go to an Irish shop and get face to face help rather than having to ship back to the UK.

Not to mention having to do an end user agreement to ship the scope over form the UK (anything over 4 mag needs this). Not impossible and free to do, but another 2 to 3 weeks of waiting.

As said at the start i don't mean it as "mine is better than yours" or any of that childish nonsense, just the OP is going to be target shooting according to his opening post so you want a fine reticle, SFP, and as much mag as you can get without compromising on clarity.

GolfVI

Cass wrote: »

If your budget is €500 to €600 i'd suggest going for a Hawke but not he Sidewinder.

The Frontier.

A far superior scope than the Sidewinder. It has improved glass, mag, reticle choice and still comes with the excellent support service of Hawke.

Normally they retail at around €750-ish so i wasn't going to mention it, but while looking for a link to an Irish dealer to let you see them i saw Irish Shooting Sports have them for sale at €595. Thats a €150 saving.

BTW i have no affiliation to the shop, just passing on some info.

Thanks Cass, in terms of image quality would you reckon that the frontier would out perfom the vortex? Im looking for the best image -magnification ratio i can get.

And I would agree with looking for a SFP scope as I much prefer my reticle to stay the same size

Also would choosing the 56 over a 50 make much of a difference considering all shooting will be done during the day in good light conditions or would the 56 be better for the longer ranges..

lefthooker

Sure I love a good argument debate too.

ffp/sfp... each to they're own. I just like ffp
Target turrets.
Matching turrets to reticle.
There are ways around the end user agreement and shipping was free with the scope I bought

GolfVI

lefthooker wrote: »

Sure I love a good argument debate too.

ffp/sfp... each to they're own. I just like ffp
Target turrets.
Matching turrets to reticle.
There are ways around the end user agreement and shipping was free with the scope I bought

I much prefer the target turrets too as i dial in my distance instead of hold-over , i know hawke offer the option to customize turrets if you order straight from the website

Cass

lefthooker wrote: »

Sure I love a good argument debate too.

:cool:

ffp/sfp... each to they're own. I just like ffp

For hunting, yes. But for target shooting especially at distances past 500 yards you need to see exactly where the crosshair is. It cannot block or impair the POA to the extent you have to move the scope/crosshair to check position.

Hence SFP.

Target turrets.

Yup, prefer them too, and if they're an option great, but if not i wouldn't let it be a factor not to go for the scope.

There are ways around the end user agreement and shipping was free with the scope I bought

We'll skip the first one to avoid breaking the rules of the forum, and with free shipping it's a good price, but as said above it works out a couple of Euro cheaper, has less mag, and there is still the issue of FFP v SFP.

Down to the OP as to preferences. At least now he has two choices.

GolfVI

Thanks lads for your inputs , I may try source a frontier at a dealer and have a look first hand what the image quality and reticles are like..

Cass

GolfVI wrote: »

Thanks Cass, in terms of image quality would you reckon that the frontier would out perfom the vortex?

I compared a Votex to a Sightron and the Sightron is superior. I also compared a Sightron to the Frontier and found little to no noticeable difference.

That is by eye. So it's my thoughts based on my viewing. Absolutely no evidence to support either assertion.

By way of process of elimination i'd place the Frontier above the Vortex for glass clarity/quality. However the Vortex would win over the Sidewinder as the Sidewinder can become "milky" past 700 yards on full mag.

And I would agree with looking for a SFP scope as I much prefer my reticle to stay the same size

For target shooting, me too. One less hassle. Same with lads using Mil scopes at distance. MOA has finer adjustments so why put an expensive Mil scope on the rifle when one click brings you through the bull rather than into it.

Also would choosing the 56 over a 50 make much of a difference considering all shooting will be done during the day in good light conditions or would the 56 be better for the longer ranges..

The 56mm would obviously allow for better light transmission but for target shooting, in the day, and given the limitations of the human eye to pick up on such subtle differences, i cannot see an issue with using 50mm over 56mm.

Plus the 50mm will be a little more compact looking. IOW less "Bulky".

GolfVI

Cass wrote: »

I compared a Votex to a Sightron and the Sightron is superior. I also compared a Sightron to the Frontier and found little to no noticeable difference.

That is by eye. So it's my thoughts based on my viewing. Absolutely no evidence to support either assertion.

By way of process of elimination i'd place the Frontier above the Vortex for glass clarity/quality. However the Vortex would win over the Sidewinder as the Sidewinder can become "milky" past 700 yards on full mag.


For target shooting, me too. One less hassle. Same with lads using Mil scopes at distance. MOA has finer adjustments so why put an expensive Mil scope on the rifle when one click brings you through the bull rather than into it.


The 56mm would obviously allow for better light transmission but for target shooting, in the day, and given the limitations of the human eye to pick up on such subtle differences, i cannot see an issue with using 50mm over 56mm.

Plus the 50mm will be a little more compact looking. IOW less "Bulky".

What kind of prices would a sightron be going for? I could stretch the budget a small bit if it would be worth it.

For ranges from 300-500 yards would the extra price make a difference

Cass

GolfVI wrote: »

What kind of prices would a sightron be going for? I could stretch the budget a small bit if it would be worth it.

The lowest with suitable features/mag would be the S-Tac (non illuminated) 4-20x50. I believe they are around the €530 or so mark.

Anything after that and you're looking at €1,000 minimum up to over €2,000. Problem is even if you wanted to stretch to the €1,000 marker youre really only looking at the S-tac in 2.7-17.5. A terrific scope with unbelieveable glass, but (and i had one) the 17 power is a little challenging past 400 yards for good target shooting. So mor emag means higher model and more moolah.

For ranges from 300-500 yards would the extra price make a difference

Honestly, no.

You can buy the Sidewinder for say €420, put the balance of your budget into your pocket or ammo, and still shoot, competitively out to 600 yards with no issues. The scope will definitely work out to 1,000 yards (i know i've shot mine out to it) and the 24 mag while not as strong as other mags is still good enough.

The only drawback is the "hazing" effect i spoke about above. it's not detrimental and realistically you won't suffer from it even at longer ranges, but it's best to be aware of it.

Of course i'm using an older generation scope, so perhaps the new models (last couple of years) have improved.

GolfVI

Cass wrote: »

The lowest with suitable features/mag would be the S-Tac (non illuminated) 4-20x50. I believe they are around the €530 or so mark.

Anything after that and you're looking at €1,000 minimum up to over €2,000. Problem is even if you wanted to stretch to the €1,000 marker youre really only looking at the S-tac in 2.7-17.5. A terrific scope with unbelieveable glass, but (and i had one) the 17 power is a little challenging past 400 yards for good target shooting. So mor emag means higher model and more moolah.


Honestly, no.

You can buy the Sidewinder for say €420, put the balance of your budget into your pocket or ammo, and still shoot, competitively out to 600 yards with no issues. The scope will definitely work out to 1,000 yards (i know i've shot mine out to it) and the 24 mag while not as strong as other mags is still good enough.

The only drawback is the "hazing" effect i spoke about above. it's not detrimental and realistically you won't suffer from it even at longer ranges, but it's best to be aware of it.

Of course i'm using an older generation scope, so perhaps the new models (last couple of years) have improved.

I guess for what ill be needing it for the mid price scopes might be the better option..

Ive noticed hazing on my cheap .22 scope on the high magnifications and longer distances however its not enough to annoy me.

A bit off topic but do you lap your scope rings?

Cass

GolfVI wrote: »

I guess for what ill be needing it for the mid price scopes might be the better option..

Between 300 to 600 yards something like the Sidewinder will do just fine. Or any other mid range scope for that matter.

We've only discussed Hawke, but there are a few more options out there. I've not used many of them so i'll let others get a word in.

A bit off topic but do you lap your scope rings?

Nope.

Nothing wrong with lapping, but i go for either a better set of rings where lapping is not a "requirement" or something like Warne rings with the vertical split style ring.

If you cannot or don't go for a hugely expensive set of rings (and some are ridiculously priced) then lapping can improve performance, but for the price of a decent set of rings and a lapping kit, you can just buy the better rings to begin with.

Rosahane

Lots of good advice above for you on the scope. I won't get into it other than to say that I've a S&B, Bushnell and Hawke on different rifles and all are great.

However, I would urge you to buy from an Irish dealer rather than abroad. The dealers have a tough time competing with the prices that the huge online retailers like Uttings and Opticsplanet can offer but are there for you with a personal service and backup. If they don't get the cash flow they will be forced to close limiting choice, availability and importantly the ability to inspect and handle of the full range of shooting equipment and paraphernalia.

tac foley

Having 'been there, seen there and bought that' many times over the last fifty-something years, I would support my LGS over any far-away dealership. Nothing beats being able to pick up a scope and actually look through it - your eyes and the written description will rarely agree, and what looks the bees knees to another person may be absolute carp to you.

Living in UK most of the time, but also living in Canada and the USA for part of the year, means that I've never had to take a reviewer's opinion about a scope that I felt I needed - not that I've many modern scopes to begin with [I collect El Paso-made Weavers].

Remember that nobody looks through the scope on your rifle except you . It's your choice.

GolfVI

tac foley wrote: »

Having 'been there, seen there and bought that' many times over the last fifty-something years, I would support my LGS over any far-away dealership. Nothing beats being able to pick up a scope and actually look through it - your eyes and the written description will rarely agree, and what looks the bees knees to another person may be absolute carp to you.

Living in UK most of the time, but also living in Canada and the USA for part of the year, means that I've never had to take a reviewer's opinion about a scope that I felt I needed - not that I've many modern scopes to begin with [I collect El Paso-made Weavers].

Remember that nobody looks through the scope on your rifle except you . It's your choice.

I always try support my local dealer and have puchased 99% of my shooting gear from him . However his shop only opens in the late evenings and with it dark so quickly its hard to judge any of the scopes quality as viewing them can only be done in the dark

amadablam

Not going to go through my C.V. of scopes that I have or have had, but of the ones you mentioned, I currently have a Vortex viper PST SFP and a Hawke Frontier 5-30 TMX (on a PCP air rifle and hmr but they could easily be on my centrefires) SFP and both scopes will do an admirable job on any caliber. I also had the Vortex PST in FFP (adding this purely for the OP) and it was a great scope.

Which is brighter? The Frontier seems brighter/sharper to my eyes but I havent compared both in all conditions. Ive put two other friends onto the frontier and once people can look past the snobbery that seems to haunt Hawke, they are actually blown away by the glass. Both have purchased them and one is using it for low light stalking and very happy with it on a 30-06 (2.5-15 i think)

As far as I know, the frontier has index matched lens and whatever Hawke have done, they have made a great scope and the quality above the rest of the range is apparent.

A big plus to the Vortex is the turrets; they are better indexed and have more precise clicks plus a zero stop type facility (shims). Definitely a plus if you like to dial all shots. That said, they Frontier is very good also but I prefer the feel of the vortex mechanics.

Id agree with others here, try and go and look through each scope as your eyes may prefer different image coloring.

To illustrate the point of personal preference, personally I prefer the Hawke Airmax SF image quality over the Sidewinder but think the sidewinder is a more solid scope. (Again, Ive had 4 of the former and two of the latter and its my personal preference)

If at all possible, do yourself a favor and go to the shop mentioned (or any other shop stocking them) and try the scope yourself. You have been given great advice from all the lads above but definitely try and look through them; that really is the best advice.

Im not sure where you are located but if you are near me , you can look through both and I can meet you within reason. PM me if you want to see if we are in the same neck of the woods.

Ive other European scopes as well and would I say that because they are 5 times the price of the Frontier that they offer 5 times the performance in all features and situations? No, I would not. Yes the high end scopes have their advantages but for your budget, I dont think you will go wrong with your current choices. By all means, adjust your budget in the future for the high end scopes but thats an entirely different discussion.

Both scopes will work great for the use you outlined and both have great warranties, although Vortex is pretty much the winner on the warranty, purely because its pretty much unconditional.

Ultimately, its your money and your personal preference thats going to decide whats best and while you can set a budget, you really have to make your choice based on your own experience by viewing them if possible.

Anyway, best of luck with your choice and I am sure you will be happy regardless.

Gravelly

GolfVI wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Looking for recommendations for a Target shooting scope for a .223 in or around the €500-€600 mark.

Was thinking maybe either of the following;

Hawke Sidewinder 6-24 x 56
Viper Vortex 6.5-20 x 50

Any suggestions appreciated

I've the Hawke you mention on a 223 for target shooting and I'm very happy with it.

GolfVI

Again thanks everyone for all your inputs.. as someone who is new to the civilian shooting scene im amazed by the support from this forum and the help that is offered from the community.

I guess I will just go out and look and find a scope that I find the best to fit my eye. As commented above everyone is different.

Ill soon have to pick all your brains for a spotting scope