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Google WiFi (Two-Unit System) - €90 [Currys]

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    #32
    JDxtra
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    ED E wrote: »
    Sky and VM are losing market share to eirvision and Vodafone tv. Both require it. + All ftth connections (another 500k possible subs). Most users keep routers several years.

    Confused by what you are talking about here. Why would Eir/Vodafone FTTH require a router that supports VLANs?

    500k "possible" subs. I can't see it getting anywhere near that level of penetration.


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    #33
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    JDxtra wrote: »
    Switch providers router into bridge mode, plug one of these into a LAN port on that router and go from there. It handles everything on the LAN, and all external bound traffic is router through to the providers router. Nothing more to it than that, works a treat.
    JDxtra wrote: »
    Confused by what you are talking about here. Why would Eir/Vodafone FTTH require a router that supports VLANs?

    500k "possible" subs. I can't see it getting anywhere near that level of penetration.

    FTTH uses a router, there is no modem to bridge. The router for FTTH must be able to tag vlan 10 on the Wan port.


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    #34
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    JDxtra wrote: »
    Most won't need VLAN - these are great devices for the vast majority of users and they work really well.

    In fairness, most people in Ireland don't need Wifi Mesh either.

    This wifi mesh stuff is massively oversold and over marketed IMO. Sure it is great if you have an absolutely massive home, but for a typical Irish home, 3 or 4 bed, it is way overkill and can cause more issues then it solves.

    A good high quality third party router, placed in a good location, high up should easily cover the vast majority of Irish homes in very strong wifi.

    If you want to improve your wifi, try a new high quality router first. If you still have dead spots, only then try mesh, but use ethernet to each mesh point if you can for the best performance.

    In reality, most people won't need to go beyond the high quality router, they will be blown away by it's performance. I get 500mb/s from my R7800 in most of my home!

    Having said all that, this is an amazing price for these units, well done OP, just try and run ethernet to them if you can, it makes a big difference.


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    #35
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Would have bought these had I seen the thread. Very shocked they sold out so quick.


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    #36
    matzen
    Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭matzen


    bk wrote: »
    In fairness, most people in Ireland don't need Wifi Mesh either.

    This wifi mesh stuff is massively oversold and over marketed IMO. Sure it is great if you have an absolutely massive home, but for a typical Irish home, 3 or 4 bed, it is way overkill and can cause more issues then it solves.
    What issues? I have a 3 bed house and the Sky Q router didn't cover half of it (newly built house, thick walls). Set up a 2 unit google wifi set, one unit upstairs and the other downstairs, and wifi is working without probs and is superfast. This was over a year ago and no issues.


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    #37
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Basq wrote: »
    ....
    [Off-topic]
    The biggest waste of money ever are homeplugs.. I've owned probably 3 - 4 and they all suffer the same flaw.. fantastic until they're plugged in for any longer than 5 days continually and they just heat up and start to stall / stutter on video etc. Then they're fine after being switched off until they cool down. Pain in the arse!
    [/Off-topic]

    Sorry for the ramble.

    Never had that problem with mine. Far more reliable than wifi for me.

    My Wifi has always been patchy it will go 200+ beside the router to >10 two rooms away.


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    #38
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    matzen wrote: »
    What issues? I have a 3 bed house and the Sky Q router didn't cover half of it (newly built house, thick walls). Set up a 2 unit google wifi set, one unit upstairs and the other downstairs, and wifi is working without probs and is superfast. This was over a year ago and no issues.

    Hand off between devices as you move between rooms with a mobile device. Your laptop for instance can end up getting stuck to the access point that is further away and thus getting worse performance.

    If you are using them in mesh mode (as opposed to connecting each one with ethernet), then you are cutting your wifi bandwidth in half. It works by first transmitting the packet from your laptop to the closest mesh device, then the mesh device needs to retransmit the packet to the other mesh device over wifi.

    The more wifi devices you have broadcasting, the more noise and interference they cause with one another, reducing performance.

    With a 3 bedroom home you really shouldn't have needed these. I agree that the Sky Q and other ISP supplied routers are rubbish, but you skipped a step. If you had simply upgraded to a good quality router and placed it better, you would most likely have covered your whole home and gotten much faster wifi speeds with no dead spots.

    A high quality router would have cost you less, while giving you better performance.

    It isn't that these don't work, it is that they aren't needed in most normal houses and that they have trade offs that are best avoided unless you have tried everything else first and that didn't work. These are the last thing you should try to fix your wifi, not the first.

    Steps to fixing wifi:
    1) Try moving your router/modem, move it to the top of a shelf near the ceiling rather near the ground where most people have it, gives much better performance. Also if you can move it to the center of your home, do.
    2) If above doesn't help, upgrade to a high quality router, positioned as above.
    3) If above still leaves you with dead spots, invest in ethernet connected wireless access points like Ubiquiti or TP-Links ones.
    4) If you can't run ethernet to each access point, then and only then use wifi mesh. A tri-band mesh system like Netgear Orbi are better then only a dual band mesh system like Google Wifi.

    Router companies love these new mesh systems, rather then selling you just one device, they are now selling you 2 or 3 at 2 or 3 times the cost. That is a lot of extra €€€ for them, so they are pushing them hard and marketing heavily, even though most people don't need them and just need a cheaper, high quality router.


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    #39
    matzen
    Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭matzen


    bk wrote: »
    Hand off between devices as you move between rooms with a mobile device. Your laptop for instance can end up getting stuck to the access point that is further away and thus getting worse performance.

    If you are using them in mesh mode (as opposed to connecting each one with ethernet), then you are cutting your wifi bandwidth in half. It works by first transmitting the packet from your laptop to the closest mesh device, then the mesh device needs to retransmit the packet to the other mesh device over wifi.

    The more wifi devices you have broadcasting, the more noise and interference they cause with one another, reducing performance.

    With a 3 bedroom home you really shouldn't have needed these. I agree that the Sky Q and other ISP supplied routers are rubbish, but you skipped a step. If you had simply upgraded to a good quality router and placed it better, you would most likely have covered your whole home and gotten much faster wifi speeds with no dead spots.

    A high quality router would have cost you less, while giving you better performance.

    It isn't that these don't work, it is that they aren't needed in most normal houses and that they have trade offs that are best avoided unless you have tried everything else first and that didn't work. These are the last thing you should try to fix your wifi, not the first.

    Steps to fixing wifi:
    1) Try moving your router/modem, move it to the top of a shelf near the ceiling rather near the ground where most people have it, gives much better performance. Also if you can move it to the center of your home, do.
    2) If above doesn't help, upgrade to a high quality router, positioned as above.
    3) If above still leaves you with dead spots, invest in ethernet connected wireless access points like Ubiquiti or TP-Links ones.
    4) If you can't run ethernet to each access point, then and only then use wifi mesh. A tri-band mesh system like Netgear Orbi are better then only a dual band mesh system like Google Wifi.

    Router companies love these new mesh systems, rather then selling you just one device, they are now selling you 2 or 3 at 2 or 3 times the cost. That is a lot of extra €€€ for them, so they are pushing them hard and marketing heavily, even though most people don't need them and just need a cheaper, high quality router.


    Sitting with my laptop upstairs it connects to the wifi unit upstairs. When I move downstairs it connects to the one in the kitchen. So can't really say that I experienced what you outline.


    Another router is not an option as I won't be able to use it with the extra Sky Q box. I did try with another router (Asus) but it was then unable to use the sky q box upstairs so that was a no-go. Also tried with TP-Links wireless access points and they were rubbish. Didn't improve the signal at all. Only thing that really worked was google wifi and it actually boosted the speed/performance, it didn't slow it down.


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    #40
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    matzen wrote: »
    Sitting with my laptop upstairs it connects to the wifi unit upstairs. When I move downstairs it connects to the one in the kitchen. So can't really say that I experienced what you outline.


    Another router is not an option as I won't be able to use it with the extra Sky Q box. I did try with another router (Asus) but it was then unable to use the sky q box upstairs so that was a no-go. Also tried with TP-Links wireless access points and they were rubbish. Didn't improve the signal at all. Only thing that really worked was google wifi and it actually boosted the speed/performance, it didn't slow it down.

    You're quite right. TP Link are rubbish, they use crappy Realtek wireless radios. Google WiFi uses the same Qualcomm wireless chip that's in the enterprise gear made by Ubiquiti and Mikrotik.

    He's not saying Google WiFi aren't good, he is saying that you most likely didn't need a mesh system just a decent router or access point located centrally. It's most likely overkill. You went from a Yaris to a Ferrari then are proclaiming the Ferrari is amazing, of course it is.


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    #41
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    matzen wrote: »
    Sitting with my laptop upstairs it connects to the wifi unit upstairs. When I move downstairs it connects to the one in the kitchen. So can't really say that I experienced what you outline.

    Well first of all you wouldn't know which AP your laptop is connected to, unless you go deep into the settings. It isn't something that is transparent to users on a mesh network.

    Secondly, the issue is transient and can be device specific. It is a major issue for Mesh networks and enterprise installs and they are working on new wifi standards to help support better roaming and handoff, but it is still pretty imature and troublesome. Best to be avoided if possible. I can link you to a lot of articles on the subject if your interested.
    matzen wrote: »
    Another router is not an option as I won't be able to use it with the extra Sky Q box. I did try with another router (Asus) but it was then unable to use the sky q box upstairs so that was a no-go. Also tried with TP-Links wireless access points and they were rubbish. Didn't improve the signal at all. Only thing that really worked was google wifi and it actually boosted the speed/performance, it didn't slow it down.

    Sky Q is such a pain.

    Interestingly Sky Q itself is actually a mesh network itself and each Sky Q mini box acts as a mesh access point!

    You could however have used a third party router with Sky Q. You just connect the router to Sky Hub and leave the Sky Q handle the minis, with everything else still connected to the new router. It is pretty much the same setup as you are most likely doing with Google Wifi.

    BTW FYI You may experience interference issues between your Google Wifi and Sky Q mini's own mesh network. You basically have a lot of different wifi devices in close proximity. Your wifi bands most be quiet congested with so many devices. Watch out for that if you notice stability issues.

    As THHB says, I'm not saying that Google Wifi is bad or that you personally should get rid of it, it does work, but just that it is likely overkill and unnecessary for most people. My comments are more aimed at others who might read this thread and think about getting Google Wifi. Some might need it, but most probably don't. There are other, cheaper things they can try first that are just as effective.


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    #42
    DermoMIO
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭DermoMIO


    None in Liffey valley, Blanch or Carrickmines unfortunately


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    #43
    randombar
    Registered Users Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭randombar


    I'm wondering if this is something I should add to my black Friday list, have a few google minis in the house now, Chromecasts and waiting on the new pixel. I presume having all google will make things a bit easier.


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    #44
    Basq
    Registered Users Posts: 43,815 ✭✭✭✭Basq


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    .. I presume having all google will make things a bit easier.
    Not on your bank balance.. :D


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    #45
    randombar
    Registered Users Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭randombar


    Basq wrote: »
    Not on your bank balance.. :D

    Well having moved from apple it could be worse. :rolleyes:


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    #46
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    I'm wondering if this is something I should add to my black Friday list, have a few google minis in the house now, Chromecasts and waiting on the new pixel. I presume having all google will make things a bit easier.

    Do you actually need mesh?
    Google WiFi are only dual band btw. There are better Tri band available like the new Eero gen 2


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    #47
    randombar
    Registered Users Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭randombar


    The high horse brigade wrote: »
    Do you actually need mesh?
    Google WiFi are only dual band btw. There are better Tri band available like the new Eero gen 2

    I actually have a linksys at the minute and it's not bad. Decent size gaf out in the country so there are places it doesn't cover. I find issues with the tri-band with casting the the google minis, if phone is on 5 and minis are on 2.4 etc.


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    #48
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    I actually have a linksys at the minute and it's not bad. Decent size gaf out in the country so there are places it doesn't cover. I find issues with the tri-band with casting the the google minis, if phone is on 5 and minis are on 2.4 etc.

    But do you need mesh? Can you get a cable to an access point in a better position to cover these areas?


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    #49
    randombar
    Registered Users Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭randombar


    The high horse brigade wrote: »
    But do you need mesh? Can you get a cable to an access point in a better position to cover these areas?

    I actually have, an old router at the min, handy for the blink cameras. But wouldn't a mesh be the same thing just better?


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    #50
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    GaryCocs wrote: »
    I actually have, an old router at the min, handy for the blink cameras. But wouldn't a mesh be the same thing just better?

    No. Mesh is the new buzz word, it's all marketing. With mesh the link between them is wireless. Wireless is half duplex, it can either send or receive not both at the same time like a cable. Since you already have a cable you are better to use hard wired access points like a Ubiquiti Unifi
    Ubiquiti Networks UAP-AC-LR 175.7 x 43.2 mm 2.4-5 GHz 802.11ac Dual-Radio Long Range Access Point - White https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B016K5A06C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_H5JZBbTV6ZER1


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    #51
    randombar
    Registered Users Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭randombar


    The high horse brigade wrote: »
    No. Mesh is the new buzz word, it's all marketing. With mesh the link between them is wireless. Wireless is half duplex, it can either send or receive not both at the same time like a cable. Since you already have a cable you are better to use hard wired access points like a Ubiquiti Unifi
    Ubiquiti Networks UAP-AC-LR 175.7 x 43.2 mm 2.4-5 GHz 802.11ac Dual-Radio Long Range Access Point - White https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B016K5A06C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_H5JZBbTV6ZER1

    A boards first, I've been talked out of buying something I didn't need anyway (Usually it would be being delivered right now).

    Have a ubiquiti at work all right, great pieces of kit.


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    #52
    shovel
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭shovel


    I see that the Netgear r7800 router mentioned on thread is the Amazon deal of the day at 119 pounds.
    Would ye recommend it instead of the eir router?


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    #53
    shovel
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭shovel


    I see that the Netgear r7800 router mentioned on thread is the Amazon deal of the day at 119 pounds.
    Would ye recommend it instead of the eir router for a large house


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    #54
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    shovel wrote: »
    I see that the Netgear r7800 router mentioned on thread is the Amazon deal of the day at 119 pounds.
    Would ye recommend it instead of the eir router?

    Yes it would be an upgrade but depending on what Eir service you have it may not be a like for like swap out. What Eir service do you have? Also depending on your house layout you may also be best to try locate it more centrally.


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    #55
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    The high horse brigade wrote: »
    Yes it would be an upgrade but depending on what Eir service you have it may not be a like for like swap out. What Eir service do you have? Also depending on your house layout you may also be best to try locate it more centrally.

    Would it be an upgrade on the white Virgin Media hub?


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    #56
    shovel
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭shovel


    Sorry. it's the eir fibre router.the f2000.


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    #57
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Would it be an upgrade on the white Virgin Media hub?

    I don't have Virgin and have no idea what that modem is like but generally the provider supplied ones are just average. You would need to look into whether it's possible to bridge that modem as your connection will be tied to its hardware address. Somebody with one may advise.


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    #58
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    shovel wrote: »
    Sorry. it's the eir fibre router.the f2000.

    Yes but what service fibre to the home or fibre to the cabinet?


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    #59
    shovel
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭shovel


    I'm guessing Fibre to the cabinet because there was no change of the line into my house.


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    #60
    ablelocks
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭ablelocks


    Bargain alert, product & network support all in one - sound people ye are.


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    #61
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    shovel wrote: »
    I'm guessing Fibre to the cabinet because there was no change of the line into my house.

    Well then you would still need the F2000 as a modem but if you were to change router you would need to bridge the F2000 so it acts a modem only and add the Eir PPPoE login details to the whatever router you add https://cottse.wordpress.com/2016/01/27/eir-f2000-configure-for-bridge-mode/

    My advise is that you are better off to just buy a wireless access point and disable wireless on the F2000 but keep it as your router. You can then run a cable to somewhere centrally and fit this access point giving you better coverage. See the Ubiquiti posted earlier.

    See, most people don't actually need Google Wifi, there are better options. Mesh is all marketing. Yes it can work where you can't get cables, but it's never a better option


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