Munster vs Gloucester, Sat 20th Oct 1pm, VM One / BT Sport 2

shootermacg

joseywhales wrote: »

I mean he only had to bend over another 10 degrees and it would have been below the armpit, it's not somekimpossible adjustment to make, just because he doesn't have the balls to make low hits

The fact that he straightened his arm to his side prior to contact meant he at least considered leading with the shoulder.

You be worried for the ABs in the upcoming game. If this law was in place last year you'd have seen 3 straight reds in dublin.

joseywhales

shootermacg wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

I mean he only had to bend over another 10 degrees and it would have been below the armpit, it's not somekimpossible adjustment to make, just because he doesn't have the balls to make low hits

The fact that he straightened his arm to his side prior to contact meant he at least considered leading with the shoulder.

You be worried for the ABs in the upcoming game. If this law was in place last year you'd have seen 3 straight reds in dublin.

Ah they will adjust of course but it is an advantage that our guys have to play under that kind of scrutiny every week, less chance of a slip up, pun intended

uptherebels

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

My difficulty with the way the laws are being applied is that the tackler...and the ref can now possibly be conned...you see a tackle coming... and duck at the last second...take a hit to the head...and opposing player gets a yellow or red

if the ball carrier can duck at the last second and take a shoulder to the face on purpose it means the defender wasn't attempting a tackle.
So in what scenario do you see this occurring?

Mookie Blaylock

uptherebels wrote: »

if the ball carrier can duck at the last second and take a shoulder to the face on purpose it means the defender wasn't attempting a tackle.
So in what scenario do you see this occurring?

I do hope you're joking

blackdog1

uptherebels wrote:

why would you stand in the way? either make a tackle or move out the way. Its not difficult to get your arms up so that there is no question of leading with the shoulder. You cant have a situation where a shoulder to the face is open to interpretation if you are trying to look after players. Everyone knows the situation now, any contact and a card.

You can't escape making contact with the head, especially with people ducking into tackles, charging and opponents with their head down or just simply great feet. The question should be was it aggressive or intentional. To me cipriani just braced for the impact Scannell ran into him. What officials should do is get rid of the choke tackle so people can keep their head up while going into contact without the risk of being held up.

The Lost Sheep

blackdog1 wrote: »

You can't escape making contact with the head, especially with people ducking into tackles, charging and opponents with their head down or just simply great feet. The question should be was it aggressive or intentional. To me cipriani just braced for the impact Scannell ran into him. What officials should do is get rid of the choke tackle so people can keep their head up while going into contact without the risk of being held up.

How would you change the laws to remove the choke tackle?

blackdog1

The Lost Sheep wrote:

How would you change the laws to remove the choke tackle?

I'm not sure but refs could call ruck instead or tackle release fairly easily. If it wasn't rewarded people would stop doing it. Just don't call maul, tackler will eventually get to ground and ruck will be called.

yerrahbah

Maybe I'm being harsh but I wasn't impressed by todays performance.

A few of the lineouts were really bad, it seemed like a total breakdown in communication 


Discipline was very poor, POM attempting a steal on the deck after being told three times by the ref to leave it, Rory Scannell was even telling him to leave it and the Archer "attempt" at a tackle stand out in the mind


At times it looked like Glaws had the extra man


I think Haley played his best game for Munster, Sweetnam looked dangerous and Beirne was just being Beirne. 


Some of Williams passing went astray, but he was very good in defense.


We got what sounds like three more serious injuries today, looking light at openside. Fingers crossed Cloete has an inury free few months

The Lost Sheep

blackdog1 wrote: »

I'm not sure but refs could call ruck instead or tackle release fairly easily. If it wasn't rewarded people would stop doing it. Just don't call maul, tackler will eventually get to ground and ruck will be called.

But it is a maul. I dont see why mauls shouldnt be called. It would still happen in the game.
Tackler would get to ground but if held up and turnover isnt called like in choke tackle situation you are opening games to potential flashpoint thats not needed

swiwi_

Total and utter BS RC in my opinion.

Cipriani didn’t even really attempt a tackle. He was following behind his teammate who did tackle and the Munster player basically fell into his shoulder. I really don’t think Cipriani could have done anything else.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out at the judiciary.

uptherebels

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

I do hope you're joking

No.
What sceneario do you see it happening?

uptherebels

blackdog1 wrote: »

You can't escape making contact with the head, especially with people ducking into tackles, charging and opponents with their head down or just simply great feet. The question should be was it aggressive or intentional. To me cipriani just braced for the impact Scannell ran into him. What officials should do is get rid of the choke tackle so people can keep their head up while going into contact without the risk of being held up.

Its not just about makingng contact with the head, its making contact with head with your shoulder. This is about the tackler not using arms in a tackle. The point is to protect players from unnecessary hits to the head. Aggressiveness and intent doesn't nor shouldn't come into it.

uptherebels

swiwi_ wrote: »

Total and utter BS RC in my opinion.

Cipriani didn’t even really attempt a tackle. He was following behind his teammate who did tackle and the Munster player basically fell into his shoulder. I really don’t think Cipriani could have done anything else.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out at the judiciary.

that he didn't really attempt a tackle is the problem!

how was he following behind his teammate? they were both in the defensive line!
and ciprianis teammate had just began to make a tackle when when the collision occurred so no fall involved at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgW9t6UdnTg&t=69s

irishbucsfan

How on earth are players supposed to follow the rules that they all know exist and are enforced time and again?

Mookie Blaylock

irishbucsfan wrote: »

How on earth are players supposed to follow the rules that they all know exist and are enforced time and again?

Do like Munster and POM did in the last 15 mins...go offside, hit low, give a lot of penalties away...
but make sure you don't tackle above waist height....
or you end up like Archer...

Interested Observer

I was fairly annoyed at the red at the time because it did ruin the game as a contest but yeah, it's a red. There was no wrap of the right arm, shoulder to face, no option for the ref.

There's more and more evidence now that staying high in the tackle is just straight up dangerous and cards are being dished out constantly now. Players need to get the message to tackle lower.

Burkie1203

Interested Observer wrote: »

I was fairly annoyed at the red at the time because it did ruin the game as a contest but yeah, it's a red. There was no wrap of the right arm, shoulder to face, no option for the ref.

There's more and more evidence now that staying high in the tackle is just straight up dangerous and cards are being dished out constantly now. Players need to get the message to tackle lower.

Twelvetrees should be cited as I thought his one was worse. Archer might get a citing too.

shotgunmcos

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Joe Schmidt must be jumping up and down on his couch

He was at the game with Andy Farell. Seemed happy enough to be there

pickarooney

The only way to really encourage low tackling is to ban offloads somehow. Do we want that?

Burkie1203

pickarooney wrote: »

The only way to really encourage low tackling is to ban offloads somehow. Do we want that?

You can tackle legally and prevent offloading

pickarooney

Burkie1203 wrote: »

You can tackle legally and prevent offloading

Legally, but not low.

The Lost Sheep

pickarooney wrote: »

The only way to really encourage low tackling is to ban offloads somehow. Do we want that?

it isn't the only way

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Legally, but not low.

Ireland’s approach to stopping offloading has nothing to do with tackle height.

And there are perfectly legal and safe ways to prevent offloads as long as you’re willing to lose a couple of meters

razorblunt

There's a gif doing the rounds (think it's Treacy) showing Cipriani had a similar tackle attempt on Stander, where the ball was knocked on.
So while the intent was never there on the head he was definitely bracing with the shoulder.

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ireland’s approach to stopping offloading has nothing to do with tackle height.

And there are perfectly legal and safe ways to prevent offloads as long as you’re willing to lose a couple of meters

Does it not involve two defenders, one low and one high, choke tackling and forcing a maul?

leakyboots

Not often you go to a game with 8 or 9 tries, two yellows and a red and come home saying it was awful, but it was.

I don't think there was a single person there who thought Cipriani deserved red. First yellow was harsh and Archer probably could have gotten red too. Ref was woeful, ruined the match as a spectacle. Going to tmo 7 times, even when the incident happened in front of him, called over 20 penalties. The whole match was so disjointed.

Good result for us, even if Gloucester nearly left with 2. Kudos to their fans, travelled in numbers and were great craic in the pubs last night.

Beirne and Carbery were excellent, POM too. I get the sense there's a couple of fellas on here with an agenda to get Ruddock ahead of him, ye must be missing the turnovers and lineout steals. POM is in great form and is no way losing his place to Ruddock. I'd put Beirne on the bench, I wouldn't break up the Leinster partnership

Pool is there for the taking now

Faugheen

leakyboots wrote: »

Not often you go to a game with 8 or 9 tries, two yellows and a red and come home saying it was awful, but it was.

I don't think there was a single person there who thought Cipriani deserved red. First yellow was harsh and Archer probably could have gotten red too. Ref was woeful, ruined the match as a spectacle. Going to tmo 7 times, even when the incident happened in front of him, called over 20 penalties. The whole match was so disjointed.

Good result for us, even if Gloucester nearly left with 2. Kudos to their fans, travelled in numbers and were great craic in the pubs last night.

Beirne and Carbery were excellent, POM too. I get the sense there's a couple of fellas on here with an agenda to get Ruddock ahead of him, ye must be missing the turnovers and lineout steals. POM is in great form and is no way losing his place to Ruddock. I'd put Beirne on the bench, I wouldn't break up the Leinster partnership

Pool is there for the taking now

If POM keeps giving away penalties the way he has been then he absolutely will lose his place no matter how well he's doing elsewhere. Ireland loses nothing by putting a more disciplined and in form Ruddock in there and we all know which one Joe would prefer.

Having said that, I'm interested to see if POM gives away as many penalties in a green jersey. The reason I say that is because I pointed out yesterday I feel something isn't quite right in the Munster camp because 6 penalties in two games is very out of character for POM.

However don't kid yourself into thinking he'll be nailed on if he keeps giving away penalties like he has been doing.

Mookie Blaylock

There's a few people kidding themselves in here, and it's not the locals.

pickarooney

Can we not just put SOB back in at 6 and forgo the POM v Ruddock craic?

Mookie Blaylock

pickarooney wrote: »

Can we not just put SOB back in at 6 and forgo the POM v Ruddock craic?

A fit SOB is the reason Ruddock won't even make the 23