DAB Thread

radioguru02

What’s the situation? Heard this “Eirdab” MUX was testing recently. Is that still on and if not is it coming back? What stations are carried? Is it just RTE outside of that?

JDxtra

Two religious stations are on EIRDAB in Cork as far as I know. 8Radio will be on it while they have their temporary FM licence, and a dance/underground station is meant to launch on it (NRG Radio Cork maybe?).

radioguru02

Currently in Cork on DAB it’s RTE: UCB, Maria and CSN’s Juice FM

JDxtra

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Currently in Cork on DAB it’s RTE: UCB, Maria and CSN’s Juice FM

You would have hoped that by this stage there would be a lot more diversity. Two religious stations and a student stations isn't going to drive take-up. They need at least 10 to 15 new operators on that DAB+ platform.

SimonMaher

JDxtra wrote: »

You would have hoped that by this stage there would be a lot more diversity. Two religious stations and a student stations isn't going to drive take-up. They need at least 10 to 15 new operators on that DAB+ platform.

Problem that they're having is that the clients they need for their MUX (i.e. the smaller operators that they would have lots of in the UK) are finding it difficult to justify the expense (and crazy paperwork) of a Section 71 licence for a trial that might be finished by summer. BAI are still asking for stations to commit to a 5 year term (paid up front) to enable participation on the trial and even then, they're asking for 5 months to process an application.

Similar process in the UK involves a short form, a cheque for 250 quid and a licence in 6 weeks.....

Simon

More Music

SimonMaher wrote: »

......Similar process in the UK involves a short form, a cheque for 250 quid and a licence in 6 weeks.....

Simon

I mean this in all seriousness, why don't you apply for a DAB license for the UK? (maybe you already have).

SimonMaher

More Music wrote: »

I mean this in all seriousness, why don't you apply for a DAB license for the UK? (maybe you already have).

Perfectly fair question! UK law doesn't allow non-UK broadcasters to get Digital Content Provision licences currently. They ran a consultation a couple of years ago now which proposed changing that and they have agreed to make the relevant legislative changes. Ourselves, RTE and a few others from this side of the pond took part in that consultation.

However, like so many other things, it has been somewhat held up by recent events in the House of Commons! Plan was for RTE to go DAB in a number of cities initially but that's held up too so 252 may get another reprieve!

Head to page 8 of this document if you're really bored:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/668926/Commercial_radio_deregulation__Government_response_final.pdf

Simon
8Radio.com

digitalise

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Currently in Cork on DAB it’s RTE: UCB, Maria and CSN’s Juice FM

They've just added Raidio Ri-Ra to the Cork multiplex.

JDxtra

I noticed NRG Radio Cork put a DAB+ logo on an Instagram post 2 days ago. Wishful thinking?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwCkn7KBixm/

radioguru02

JDxtra wrote: »

I noticed NRG Radio Cork put a DAB+ logo on an Instagram post 2 days ago. Wishful thinking?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwCkn7KBixm/

Their jingles etc still say ’NRG digital’. There is no ref to their FM freq anywhere, but in reality they’re just on 104.9FM in Cork - I don’t believe they ever made it to DAB. Their jingles/socials claim that they’re online-only so I’m assuming they’re trying the UK-influenced ‘someone’s relaying us’ thing

Franko87

JDxtra wrote: »

I noticed NRG Radio Cork put a DAB+ logo on an Instagram post 2 days ago. Wishful thinking?

Has there been a dab scan to confirm this I wonder??

radioguru02

Franko87 wrote: »

JDxtra wrote: »

I noticed NRG Radio Cork put a DAB+ logo on an Instagram post 2 days ago. Wishful thinking?

Has there been a dab scan to confirm this I wonder??

Most recently about a month ago. My results are in the third post

Franko87

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Franko87 wrote: »

Most recently about a month ago. My results are in the third post

Be interesting to see if there is any new stations after popping up you never know there are people out there who could pull it off and assemble a multiplex. 👌

Franko87

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Franko87 wrote: »

Most recently about a month ago. My results are in the third post

It would be interesting to see if any new DAB stations have appeared.

JDxtra

Franko87 wrote: »

pirateradiohed wrote: »

It would be interesting to see if any new DAB stations have appeared.

DAB+ pirate multiplex? Or something new on the Eirdab multiplex?

I'm not down in Cork so can't check.

rogue-entity

JDxtra wrote: »

DAB+ pirate multiplex?

It would be fairly trivial to do, and not for a crazy amount of money either.

Franko87

rogue-entity wrote: »

It would be fairly trivial to do, and not for a crazy amount of money either.

It can be done but you need extensive knowledge or understanding of how dab works .

radioguru02

JDxtra wrote: »

Franko87 wrote: »

DAB+ pirate multiplex? Or something new on the Eirdab multiplex?

I'm not down in Cork so can't check.

Neither.

Franko87

pirateradiohed wrote: »

JDxtra wrote: »

Neither.

Really ? I here different.

radioguru02

Franko87 wrote: »

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Really ? I here different.

We shall see I suppose

Anglers

pirateradiohed wrote: »

JDxtra wrote: »

Neither.

pirateradiohead are you in cork at the minute? as you have stated in past you are not from cork? Did you do a scan in the last couple of hours in cork? find it hard to believe your comment "Neither" unless you have been in cork which you haven't said! So to speak! i have just done a scan which states your comment is wrong. found a multiplex in cork shown the name FreeDab. peace out

JDxtra

This is a first, in Ireland at least. Interesting.

radioguru02

Anglers wrote: »

pirateradiohed wrote: »

pirateradiohead are you in cork at the minute? as you have stated in past you are not from cork? Did you do a scan in the last couple of hours in cork? find it hard to believe your comment "Neither" unless you have been in cork which you haven't said! So to speak! i have just done a scan which states your comment is wrong. found a multiplex in cork shown the name FreeDab. peace out

I appologize for misinformation, what stations are on it?

Franko87

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Anglers wrote: »

I appologize for misinformation, what stations are on it?

Yup it's there alright

radioguru02

Opinions? I personally don’t ever see DAB taking off over here, and I’d imagine its three listeners would adjust to plugging their phones into aux/connecting via Bluetooth...if they haven’t already
We live in a world where all the music and talk shows we want are at our fingertips through the internet. I think we should be crying out for national 4G coverage instead of a low quality system few use and that few more would if it was rolled out

jrmb

I think you might be right. I bought a DAB radio 10 years ago that still doesn't even work in Bray. In the meantime it's become possible to listen to a live online stream for the full length of my commute.

That said, if there were ever an internet outage, we could still rely on traditional broadcasts.

radioguru02

jrmb wrote: »

I think you might be right. I bought a DAB radio 10 years ago that still doesn't even work in Bray. In the meantime it's become possible to listen to a live online stream for the full length of my commute.

That said, if there were ever an internet outage, we could still rely on traditional broadcasts.

Exactly, which is why I think we should keep the FM frequency active

rogue-entity

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Opinions? I personally don’t ever see DAB taking off over here, and I’d imagine its three listeners would adjust to plugging their phones into aux/connecting via Bluetooth...if they haven’t already

As has been stated elsewhere, the primary reason it is not taking off here is because the commercial stations don't want it to take off, and I believe the BAI is a victim of regulatory capture; they've been dragging their feet on DAB for at least a decade now.

As I see it, the FM transmitters have been paid for and are serving their purpose, so there's no incentive for them to move to DAB unless they wanted to launch additional services under their umbrella like e.g. Nova or RTE. If the Government mandated a switch to digital, there are other options that I would expect to be pushed as a way of keeping the status quo not unlike what I had read about the adoption of ATSC or IBoC in the US.

pirateradiohed wrote: »

We live in a world where all the music and talk shows we want are at our fingertips through the internet. I think we should be crying out for national 4G coverage instead of a low quality system few use and that few more would if it was rolled out

And this is where I have a problem, streaming online is not broadcasting and so it does not cheaply scale. An 300W FM broadcast transmitter will set you back a small bit of cash, at a good site you'll get a wide range of coverage and it won't matter if there's one hundred or one hundred thousand listeners in range, they can all receive it at no extra cost to you.
Broadcasting online, assuming you were using conventional hosting, and you're paying by the Mbit 95th for each 7-8 listeners or you're paying for the total sum of the data transferred (which can be more expensive) so that's going to cost you a lot more than conventional broadcasting.

And then there's the mobile networks, if there was a large uptick in folks listening to streaming services via mobile I'd expect capacity at the networks to be a problem, and they have trouble providing coverage outside of the cities much less capacity so that's a non-runner right there.

I firmly believe that radio broadcasting should NOT be the sole preserve of the wealthy and the well-heeled "media moguls", that it is a powerful tool for reaching and engaging with communities and that they should not be priced out of it nor forced to partner with "a platform" whom ultimately they have no control over - unlike having ones own broadcasting transmitter.

radioguru02

rogue-entity wrote: »

As has been stated elsewhere, the primary reason it is not taking off here is because the commercial stations don't want it to take off, and I believe the BAI is a victim of regulatory capture; they've been dragging their feet on DAB for at least a decade now.

As I see it, the FM transmitters have been paid for and are serving their purpose, so there's no incentive for them to move to DAB unless they wanted to launch additional services under their umbrella like e.g. Nova or RTE. If the Government mandated a switch to digital, there are other options that I would expect to be pushed as a way of keeping the status quo not unlike what I had read about the adoption of ATSC or IBoC in the US.


And this is where I have a problem, streaming online is not broadcasting and so it does not cheaply scale. An 300W FM broadcast transmitter will set you back a small bit of cash, at a good site you'll get a wide range of coverage and it won't matter if there's one hundred or one hundred thousand listeners in range, they can all receive it at no extra cost to you.
Broadcasting online, assuming you were using conventional hosting, and you're paying by the Mbit 95th for each 7-8 listeners or you're paying for the total sum of the data transferred (which can be more expensive) so that's going to cost you a lot more than conventional broadcasting.

And then there's the mobile networks, if there was a large uptick in folks listening to streaming services via mobile I'd expect capacity at the networks to be a problem, and they have trouble providing coverage outside of the cities much less capacity so that's a non-runner right there.

I firmly believe that radio broadcasting should NOT be the sole preserve of the wealthy and the well-heeled "media moguls", that it is a powerful tool for reaching and engaging with communities and that they should not be priced out of it nor forced to partner with "a platform" whom ultimately they have no control over - unlike having ones own broadcasting transmitter.

Very informative
Don’t get me wrong - I’m all for traditional FM broadcasting. I just think it’s too late in the day to try and convince the public to move to DAB so far into the streaming era.

end of the road

pirateradiohed wrote: »

I’d imagine its three listeners

on what basis are you claiming 3 listeners? i would suggest the fact we still have such services means that a lot more then 3 listeners are listening.

Atlantic Dawn

I don't really see the benefits it will bring, radio is radio, mine in the car only goes bad about 1% of the time in tunnels or multi-story car parks, it's pure wasteful over engineering what we don't need.

rogue-entity

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I don't really see the benefits it will bring, radio is radio, mine in the car only goes bad about 1% of the time in tunnels or multi-story car parks, it's pure wasteful over engineering what we don't need

I don't see any harm whatsoever in allowing other stations the ability to get on air when at the moment there's no reasonable prospect of that happening. We desperately need a change and some choice.

radioguru02

end of the road wrote: »

on what basis are you claiming 3 listeners? i would suggest the fact we still have such services means that a lot more then 3 listeners are listening.

We’ll never know...it’s not included in JNLR, I’d say there’s few more

plodder

rogue-entity wrote: »

As has been stated elsewhere, the primary reason it is not taking off here is because the commercial stations don't want it to take off, and I believe the BAI is a victim of regulatory capture; they've been dragging their feet on DAB for at least a decade now.

As I see it, the FM transmitters have been paid for and are serving their purpose, so there's no incentive for them to move to DAB unless they wanted to launch additional services under their umbrella like e.g. Nova or RTE. If the Government mandated a switch to digital, there are other options that I would expect to be pushed as a way of keeping the status quo not unlike what I had read about the adoption of ATSC or IBoC in the US.


And this is where I have a problem, streaming online is not broadcasting and so it does not cheaply scale. An 300W FM broadcast transmitter will set you back a small bit of cash, at a good site you'll get a wide range of coverage and it won't matter if there's one hundred or one hundred thousand listeners in range, they can all receive it at no extra cost to you.
Broadcasting online, assuming you were using conventional hosting, and you're paying by the Mbit 95th for each 7-8 listeners or you're paying for the total sum of the data transferred (which can be more expensive) so that's going to cost you a lot more than conventional broadcasting.

And then there's the mobile networks, if there was a large uptick in folks listening to streaming services via mobile I'd expect capacity at the networks to be a problem, and they have trouble providing coverage outside of the cities much less capacity so that's a non-runner right there.

I firmly believe that radio broadcasting should NOT be the sole preserve of the wealthy and the well-heeled "media moguls", that it is a powerful tool for reaching and engaging with communities and that they should not be priced out of it nor forced to partner with "a platform" whom ultimately they have no control over - unlike having ones own broadcasting transmitter.

IP multicasting is a better (potential) solution for streaming of live radio. Personally, I think that is the way it will go. I haven't been impressed by DAB. It's more trouble than it's worth due to constant drop outs and switching back to FM.

Mortelaro

I receive 44 dAB channels on my Robert's 94i in Arklow with solid signal from Kippure, aswell as Arfon and preseli in Wales
Mighty handy as 5 live blocks out the sports coverage on wifi

Heres the scan list

https://youtu.be/0FCzWc6x7Dg

prunudo

Mortelaro wrote: »

I receive 44 dAB channels on my Robert's 94i in Arklow with solid signal from Kippure, aswell as Arfon and preseli in Wales
Mighty handy as 5 live blocks out the sports coverage on wifi

Heres the scan list

https://youtu.be/0FCzWc6x7Dg

That looks like a good radio, wonder would it work in my location between Ashford and Newtown? I wouldn't have line of sight to Kippure, good few hills in the way, so don't know how good the reception would be.

Mortelaro

I'd say you'd get Kippure alright,we've the entire mountain range in the way
The UK channels only if you have a sea view or are high up
Its a good set,the 94i roberts,as a wifi radio,has bluetooth,spotify connect has a remote control and a good phone app for controling it
If you buy it on amazon,you can return it,I'd imagine

radioguru02

I’ll be in Cork on Friday and I’ll be very surprised if I pick up this “pirate multiplex” that apparently exists

Ger Roe

jvan wrote: »

That looks like a good radio, wonder would it work in my location between Ashford and Newtown? I wouldn't have line of sight to Kippure, good few hills in the way, so don't know how good the reception would be.

I am in Newtown, and have a Binatone Tranciva IR804 (DAB, FM, WiFi). Argos were selling them about 9 years ago for a steal at €60. The DAB however is useless at this location. The radio is used mostly for internet stations or playback from the home network.

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/internet-dab-radio-breaks-new-price-low-2732792

DAB here, indoors with the telescopic antenna only picks up anything during high pressure weather conditions and even then it is more likely to be UK services than anything from Kippure. Having said that, an external antenna would obviously be better, but I can get everything currently on DAB through the internet radio mode, so I haven't gone to the bother of experimenting with bits of wire. That might answer the question posed in the original post. I have just scanned for DAB now and it has seen nothing (again).

If I bring the radio 'up to Dublin' it pulls in the DAB services from Three Rock without a bother so location is obviously critical for DAB but at the same time FM and WiFi is always reliable in this particular DAB blackspot.

Mortelaro

It definitely depends on height and coastal distance
In Arklow I'm at 162ft asl and 2kms from the coast but have no view of the sea,so higher ground nearby doesn't seem to be an issue
We also have UK analogue radio on the car radio here with rds,so that matters and can receive UK digital terrestrial

The dab channels are all from arfon here,I checked the frequencies on the Roberts, which is Wales tallest structure over 1000ft high
Most of east Wicklow used get their Welsh analogue TV from there
There will be variations
You'll have a better chance on the UK channels upstairs on a 2 storey rather than a bungalow
Kippure works perfectly throughout my house but Arfon only at the back and upstairs

micosoft

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I don't really see the benefits it will bring, radio is radio, mine in the car only goes bad about 1% of the time in tunnels or multi-story car parks, it's pure wasteful over engineering what we don't need.

The reason the Government and other stakeholders want to move to Digital Radio is to free up bandwidth for other uses (mainly mobile internet). Analogue is wasteful of bandwidth - the switch to Digital TV for example, freed up the 800Mhz range for 4G.
Moving FM channels to DAB allows the 100Mhz range to be used for 5G. In a way it will solve

But you are correct - in itself there is insufficient end user benefit to DAB and it will probably go the way Bluray went - too little benefit and quickly replaced by the internet streaming alternatives. I suspect we will end up moving to Internet based players as cars now come increasingly with permanent internet connectivity.

radioguru02

Dream on boys, no sign of any new DAB mux in city centre today

Franko87

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Dream on boys, no sign of any new DAB mux in city centre today

It's not being recieved in the city . I can receive it on my sdr receiver with an outdoor antenna however I am quite high up??

radioguru02

So is it actually receiveable on a normal DAB radio at all?

Franko87 wrote: »

It's not being recieved in the city . I can receive it on my sdr receiver with an outdoor antenna however I am quite high up??

Franko87

pirateradiohed wrote: »

So is it actually receiveable on a normal DAB radio at all?

If I stand out in my garden I can get it on my pure dab pocket radio if I move around. So yes .I'm assuming what there doing is testing on minimum power. Best to keep an ear out and see if anything develops from it. I did a scan in little island outside the range today and got it in the wife's car .so I'm guessing it's the Southside it's being recieved aswell .might take a drive around and post tomorrow on its rough coverage .

end of the road

pirateradiohed wrote: »

So is it actually receiveable on a normal DAB radio at all?

it will depend on whether the mux is standard dab or dab+ . if dab+ then you will need a radio that supports it which all dab radios don't.
the setup could also be very local with low/restricted coverage so you may have to specifically travel around to look for somewhere to pick it up.

WHL

Receiving in Douglas on my Roberts Play Duo on the telescopic antenna. Signal drifting in and out though

WHL

There is another station called SoulCity also on FREE-DAB.

Franko87

WHL wrote: »

There is another station called SoulCity also on FREE-DAB.

Its seems so its restricted to south side of the city and high parts .interesting ?

radioguru02

I was using a DAB/DAB+ compattable radio. Must be on low power then. Best of luck to all involved, it’s a great idea

paulwilson

Easyradio now added to the list in cork