Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

flutered

Bambi wrote: »

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Michel Barnier attacks those who want to undermine the EU...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/there-is-now-a-farage-in-every-country-barnier-says-1.3690762

A little introspection might be in order, They'd want to address the conditions they created that resulted in Farages popping up like mushrooms everywhere

steve bannon has paid trolls in every eu country fighting the fight for the far right

Thargor

No surprises about Raab not knowing about Dover being important, he's a bit of a thicko:

https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1022422994222809088

Thargor

Barclays moves £250 billion a year to Dublin, barely gets a mention, an entire market worth $240 billion a month pisses off to Amsterdam, barely gets a mention:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-06/a-240-billion-a-month-market-leaves-london-because-of-brexit

Looks like Bombardier in Belfast finally about to be put to sleep, death by a thousand cuts or all project fear and remoaner lies?

J Mysterio

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is the type of crap that goes unchallenged on twitter.

And this is Andrew Neill, BBC presenter!

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1060576423390466049

He is intentionally making it seem like Varadkar is issuing unhinged diktats.

The British are struggling to come to terms with the fact that Ireland can't just be ignored and pushed to the side for once.

I have to say it's amusing at times to see commentary like that. Like comic relief from the horror of Brexit.

BonnieSituation

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

With who? Unionist politicians will have nothing whatsoever to do with such a negotiation.



This is a bad idea. The Parades Commission would have to go all-Ireland. 'Love Ulster' types would have to be quarantined and prevented from bring their hate-fest to the rest of the country.



I wouldn't blame people in the 26 counties for voting against a UI if they had to rejoin that useless anachronistic imperial club or have the so-called royals as some sort of head of state.

The best way to achieve a UI smoothly is for just about everything to stay the same, with Stormont as a devolved-from-Dublin regional parliament, keep the PSNI, keep the parades commission, let them have a British monarch as a sort of regional head-of-state.

Gradually harmonise the important economic stuff like taxes, currency, corporation tax, and so on, and eventually Stormont would become pointless.

The solution to the end of the statelet is not to continue with the trappings of the statelet.

In all this talk you do realise that almost half of the population of the North would be considered nationalist.

Imagine you finally get to realise a UI and then get told " but yeah, everything is gonna stay the same cos themmuns are gonna be put out."

I'm sorry, but we've all been "put out" by the anachronism of unionism for the last 200 years or so, it's time to be rid of it.

Give over lads. Again, unionists getting preferential treatment on the off-chance* they'll be petulant.


*Almost certain tbf

Tell me how

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The solution to the end of the statelet is not to continue with the trappings of the statelet.

In all this talk you do realise that almost half of the population of the North would be considered nationalist.

Imagine you finally get to realise a UI and then get told " but yeah, everything is gonna stay the same cos themmuns are gonna be put out."

I'm sorry, but we've all been out out by the anachronism of unionism for the last 200 years or so, it's time to be rid of it.

Give over lads. Again, unionists getting preferential treatment on the off-chance* they'll be petulant.


*Almost certain tbf

It was pointed out (to me) previously that the GFA specifically contains sections on allowing unionists to celebrate their cultural heritage if/when a United Ireland comes to pass.

I didn't expect them to have all blue/white/red flags confiscated but I am surprised at the extent which they will be permitted to continue to celebrate the Union even from within a UI.

I do expect it will be small celebrations and may fade out over time, but the GFA does facilitate this so it must be respected.

Rain Ascending

Thargor wrote: »

Barclays moves £250 billion a year to Dublin, barely gets a mention, an entire market worth $240 billion a month pisses off to Amsterdam, barely gets a mention:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-06/a-240-billion-a-month-market-leaves-london-because-of-brexit

Looks like Bombardier in Belfast finally about to be put to sleep, death by a thousand cuts or all project fear and remoaner lies?

I don't know how significant these trade flows are for the London financial ecosystem, but the original version of the Bloomberg story about that move to Amsterdam had a major error in the size of the market. They were way out...

... it's $240B a day! :eek:

Capt'n Midnight

The deadlines are starting to arrive

If you want your pet to be ready to travel on March 29th you'd need to have them vaccinated in the next three weeks. Three vet visits won't be cheap.

And they might apply from GB to NI too.

Brexit: Pet owners urged to 'consult vet before travel'

The blood test would need to be carried out a minimum of 30 days after any initial rabies vaccination and a minimum of three months before their travel date.
...
Only then can a veterinary health certificate be signed off by a vet to allow the animal movement - and that certificate only has a 10-day lifespan.

An Ciarraioch

Even in the event of a time-limited backstop, it appears the ultras will still vote the deal down:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/08/tory-brexiters-reject-deal-irish-backstop-exit-clause-steve-baker

Tell me how

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Even in the event of a time-limited backstop, it appears the ultras will still vote the deal down:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/08/tory-brexiters-reject-deal-irish-backstop-exit-clause-steve-baker

That sounds like a cynical but unsurprising ploy to be able to claim later that they didn't vote for it.

They know that there will probably be enough conservatives and labour house members who just want to proceed and be able to say they upheld the referendum vote so extreme Brexiteers can blame the negotiated deal in its entirety on May while stating how it should have been easy to get a better one. (ala Farage).

charlie14

Tell me how wrote: »

It was pointed out (to me) previously that the GFA specifically contains sections on allowing unionists to celebrate their cultural heritage if/when a United Ireland comes to pass.

I didn't expect them to have all blue/white/red flags confiscated but I am surprised at the extent which they will be permitted to continue to celebrate the Union even from within a UI.

I do expect it will be small celebrations and may fade out over time, but the GFA does facilitate this so it must be respected.

Outside of a completely different type of parade in Donegal that bears little or no resemblance to this "cultural heritage" in NI. In NI these parades and there routes were, and still mainly are, more a more triumphal "we`re showing you your place Taigs" than anything to do with cultural heritage.

I`m from Donegal and had never a problem with the orange order march there, but I would certainly have a major problem if in a UI the orange order and the scum that come from Scotland, (which anecdotally has more orange order lodges than NI), to help them "celebrate their cultural heritage" were allowed to believe the rest of this country was now an open playground for them.

Capt'n Midnight

I'll drag up this old chestnut. Brexit is distracting the UK government from other tasks. Like keeping the lights on.

The current plan is that by 2035? 38% of the UK's power would come from five new nuclear plants.

Looks like you can write off Moorside

The future of a new nuclear power plant in Cumbria, along with 20,000 new jobs, is now in doubt after the Japanese engineering giant Toshiba said it was pulling out.

Hinkley C is being built by the French EDF company with Chinese money. So that will be fun when they do trade deals.

Tell me how

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I'll drag up this old chestnut. Brexit is distracting the UK government from other tasks. Like keeping the lights on.

The current plan is that by 2035? 38% of the UK's power would come from five new nuclear plants.

Looks like you can write off Moorside

Hinkley C is being built by the French EDF company with Chinese money. So that will be fun when they do trade deals.

Yeah. The government handling of things like Universal credit, NHS funding, the Grenfell disaster, the windrush scandal have all reeked of ineptitude.

Definitely seems to be a case of the boss is busy, shoddy behaviour is not caught and punished quickly. (In terms of the windrush scandal the PM does bear a significant responsibility for the poor handling).

Capt'n Midnight

Oh for Fox sake

The UK must have the power to end any post-Brexit "backstop" customs accord with the EU on its own, International Trade Secretary Liam Fox has said.

They aren't even bothering to maintain a semblance of stability.
It's still a sack of ferrets fighting amongst themselves, regardless of what that will do their negotiating position.

Kermit.de.frog

Mairead McGunness on BBC Question Time tonight.

You'd have to be mad to go on that program given the audiences these days seem to resemble a bunch of predominantly pro brexit screaming chimpanzees.

Mr.Nice Guy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Mairead McGunness on BBC Question Time tonight.

You'd have to be mad to go on that program given the audiences these days seem to resemble a bunch of predominantly pro brexit screaming chimpanzees.

Thought she did well on it last time. Jordan Peterson on tonight's one as well. I remember him being on BBC Politics not long ago where he was asked about Brexit and he gave a load of platitudes about British resilience and that as a Canadian he would bet on Britain. I expect he'll offer more of the same flattery.

Tell me how

charlie14 wrote: »

I`m from Donegal and had never a problem with the orange order march there, but I would certainly have a major problem if in a UI the orange order and the scum that come from Scotland, (which anecdotally has more orange order lodges than NI), to help them "celebrate their cultural heritage" were allowed to believe the rest of this country was now an open playground for them.

Think one way to ensure it continues for a long time and has a lot of tourist participants is to actively protest against it and make them feel unwelcome.

Then it would evolve in to July 12th type interactions nationally which would be painful and probably countered with acrimony around St PAtricks day celebrations.

Would it be a small price to pay for a UI if these celebrations are small, trouble free and inclusive even if they did happen nationally?

Kermit.de.frog

DUPED?

LeinsterDub

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

DUPED?

Was just about to post this. How can a no deal have a deal? I'm confused.

Kermit.de.frog

It's the backstop to the backstop.

Basically if GB abandons alignment to go after their own trade deals then NI gets separated in terms of regulatory standards.

LeinsterDub

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's the backstop to the backstop.

Basically if GB abandons alignment to go after their own trade deals then NI gets separated in terms of regulatory standards.

So that's not no a deal. It's a deal

Dyr

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Thought she did well on it last time. Jordan Peterson on tonight's one as well. I remember him being on BBC Politics not long ago where he was asked about Brexit and he gave a load of platitudes about British resilience and that as a Canadian he would bet on Britain. I expect he'll offer more of the same flattery.

Mairead McGuinness wearing her poppy and Jordan Peterson, a Canadian Anglophile, missing one.

It's all gone a bit a weird.

Mr.Nice Guy

"The prime minister's letter raises alarm bells for those who value the integrity of our precious Union and for those who want a proper Brexit for the whole of the UK." - Arlene Foster

Would love a journalist to push Foster on what exactly constitutes "a proper Brexit", and furthermore how the DUP think this "proper Brexit" could be achieved.

charlie14

Tell me how wrote: »

Think one way to ensure it continues for a long time and has a lot of tourist participants is to actively protest against it and make them feel unwelcome.

Then it would evolve in to July 12th type interactions nationally which would be painful and probably countered with acrimony around St PAtricks day celebrations.

Would it be a small price to pay for a UI if these celebrations are small, trouble free and inclusive even if they did happen nationally?

Growing up in Donegal, and especially later when the troubles really kicked in in NI, discussing the orange order with people you would know were members came under the same rule as never discussing politics in the pub.
From what I saw of the Rossnowlagh marches is that in general they had a bit of a festive air about them in their own way.
Their didn`t appear to be any of those William of Orange banners celebrating the Boyne, which with the march being in Donegal would be a bit pointless. Ironic really.
They seemed, to me anyway, just members of local lodges who marched behind their lodge bands and banners. Not that much different to a St. Patricks day parade in fact.

If that was the type of celebration they wished to have, then I would have no problem whatsoever.

"Celebrations" like those I have seen in NI or the love Ulster type rubbish that was attempted in Dublin, not a chance.

bilston

charlie14 wrote: »

Growing up in Donegal, and especially later when the troubles really kicked in in NI, discussing the orange order with people you would know were members came under the same rule as never discussing politics in the pub.
From what I saw of the Rossnowlagh marches is that in general they had a bit of a festive air about them in their own way.
Their didn`t appear to be any of those William of Orange banners celebrating the Boyne, which with the march being in Donegal would be a bit pointless. Ironic really.
They seemed, to me anyway, just members of local lodges who marched behind their lodge bands and banners. Not that much different to a St. Patricks day parade in fact.

If that was the type of celebration they wished to have, then I would have no problem whatsoever.

"Celebrations" like those I have seen in NI or the love Ulster type rubbish that was attempted in Dublin, not a chance.

I think there is a difference between the Orange Order in Belfast and the Order in the rest of NI/Donegal. It possibly comes down to the Loyalist bands that follow the marches in Belfast.

Imreoir2

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So that's not no a deal. It's a deal

I am assuming they mean that the withdrawl agreement will include a backstop that would put a border in the Irish sea should talks on the future relationship fail.

Starting to look like we are getting some blurring of the lines with "the deal" being shifted to refer to the future trade relationship instead of the withdrawl agreement. UK can continue to claim they won't sign up to a "deal" (meaning future trade relationship) that will cut NI off from the UK and ignore that they have agreed in the withdrawl treaty that this will happen should no "deal" be agreed.

charlie14

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

"The prime minister's letter raises alarm bells for those who value the integrity of our precious Union and for those who want a proper Brexit for the whole of the UK." - Arlene Foster

Would love a journalist to push Foster on what exactly constitutes "a proper Brexit", and furthermore how the DUP think this "proper Brexit" could be achieved.

Journalists like an original quote or view-point to make an article or interview interesting.


It has been a long time since the DUP have had either so I wouldn`t blame journalists too much much as they know they are just going to get the same old mantra of no, no, no ad nauseam.

Mr.Nice Guy

"People are bored" says the Tory Brexiteer.

Amazes me how people in NI can support a Union that treats their concerns with such indifference.

10000maniacs

Thargor wrote: »

No surprises about Raab not knowing about Dover being important, he's a bit of a thicko:

https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1022422994222809088

Raab reminds me of a dunce I went to school with and sometimes used the excuse "the dog ate my homework".
Suddenly a lightbulb comes on in his nut on the 7th November 2018 when he realises the catastrophic consequences of a no deal Brexit on the flow of imports and exports through Dover. And then he exudes his idiocy and lack of brief to the world.
He is the chief Brexit negotiator on the UK side FFS. Heavens to Betsy!:eek:

charlie14

bilston wrote: »

I think there is a difference between the Orange Order in Belfast and the Order in the rest of NI/Donegal. It possibly comes down to the Loyalist bands that follow the marches in Belfast.

If you ever happen to be around Donegal or Fermanagh on the 12th of July there is only a 30 - 40 minute drive between Rossnowlagh in Donegal and Kesh in Fermanagh so easy enough to see both parades the same day.
Kesh is nothing much more than a bend in the road as regards size, but the vitriol on display is even worse than Belfast.