Leo says "Immigrants 'more likely' to work and pay tax than average Irish person"

McMurphy

Oh Leo.....

Ireland had done better than its European neighbours because immigration was diverse and not confined to immigrants coming from mainly one country, he said.

In fact, he said, immigrants were very well integrated into the labour market and were “more likely to be working than the average Irish person and more likely to be paying tax”.

Personally I think Leo is talking crap.

link

In my own industry, there's prob 1 in every 20 that would be considered an immigrant (and I include those from within the UK in those numbers)

Just like his "look after those who get up early in the morning" budget spiel (then giving those on sw more in most cases).

I thought the country was back to almost zero employment anyway?

It looks like Leo, (Just like his predecessor) shouldn't ever be allowed to stray too far from his handlers, and seldom left to stray too far from a proof read, pre approved script.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I would say he's right. I'd imagine not many of those still on the live register are immigrants as most of them come here specifically to work

Allinall

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

.......,,

I thought the country was back to almost zero employment anyway?

It looks like Leo, (Just like his predecessor) shouldn't ever be allowed to stray too far from his handlers, and seldom left to stray too far from a proof read, pre approved script.

Oh dear.

VinLieger

Hes correct, when you look at native irish people and immigrants separately a larger percentage of immigrants are working and contributing taxes than when you look at the percentage of Irish people that are working and contributing.


People may not like it but its true.

neris

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Oh Leo.....

I thought the country was back to almost zero employment anyway?

if the post office in my local tesco is anything to go by on a thursday & friday morning we're far off zero employment.

Qrt

neris wrote: »

if the post office in my local tesco is anything to go by on a thursday & friday morning we're far off zero employment.

Friday is pension day.

amcalester

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Oh Leo.....



Personally I think Leo is talking crap.

link

In my own industry, there's prob 1 in every 20 that would be considered an immigrant (and I include those from within the UK in those numbers)

Just like his "look after those who get up early in the morning" budget spiel (then giving those on sw more in most cases).

I thought the country was back to almost zero employment anyway?

It looks like Leo, (Just like his predecessor) shouldn't ever be allowed to stray too far from his handlers, and seldom left to stray too far from a proof read, pre approved script.

He didn't say immigrants make up more of the workforce, just that they are more likely to be working.

So, what is the unemployment rate for immigrants versus Irish citizens.

Your 1 in 20 stat is completely irrelevant.

Sleeper12

In my own industry, there's prob 1 in every 20 that would be considered an immigrant (and I include those from within the UK in those numbers)

I'm not sure what point you wanted to make here? I would have thought 1 in every 20 non Irish was quite a good quota.



I'm not sure what percentage of non Irish we have compared to Irish but I'd hazard a guess i in 20 is about right. Then you have jobs like hospital workers from cleaners to doctors would be a high amount of non Irish. Order a dominos & You wont get an Irish person delivering. Not from my branch you wont anyway. How many Irish work in Italian fish & chip shops? I have yet to see an irish person work in a Chinese take away or restaurant. There are industries that are almost non Irish as we no longer want to do the work



I don't have any facts or figures so I can only go on what I see in my daily life. Maybe if I lived in other parts of the country I'd see things differently but overall I'd have to say I agree with Leo on this one

McMurphy

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I would say he's right. I'd imagine not many of those still on the live register are immigrants as most of them come here specifically to work

I would say that he worded it badly. Very badly indeed.

The average Irish person is working and paying taxes.

It's very reminiscent of an Endaism gaffe.

JJJJNR

The social welfare payments dropped when the icelandic volcano erupted because there were loads of immigrants making social welfare claims that couldn't fly back on time to sign on, those immigrants Leo ?????

Lollipops23

I work in a tech company and the Irish are well outnumbered; we have, at last count, 12 different nationalities, as well as a few 2nd generation.

I would say Leo is right tbh; for every non national we have working, there's likely 2-3 Margaret Cash types.

JohnnyFlash

Eh, sorry dude, but you’re going to need more than a sample size of one to be able to dismiss what he said. Your own experiences aren’t necessarily the reality of the world.

This thread is a bit weak to be honest, and seems to be just an excuse to have a go at the Taoiseach.

Sleeper12

JJJJNR wrote: »

The social welfare payments dropped when the icelandic volcano erupted because there were loads of immigrants making social welfare claims that couldn't fly back on time to sign on, those immigrants Leo ?????

Thats old news. Social welfare tightened things up & that no longer happens. They make non Irish sign on regularly where Irish actually sign on about once a year

tom1ie

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Oh Leo.....



Personally I think Leo is talking crap.

link

In my own industry, there's prob 1 in every 20 that would be considered an immigrant (and I include those from within the UK in those numbers)

Just like his "look after those who get up early in the morning" budget spiel (then giving those on sw more in most cases).

I thought the country was back to almost zero employment anyway?

It looks like Leo, (Just like his predecessor) shouldn't ever be allowed to stray too far from his handlers, and seldom left to stray too far from a proof read, pre approved script.

You mean zero unemployment?

Immigrants that are allowed work are probably paying their fair share of tax, whereas the “long term unemployed” who go out and nixer 2-3 times a week for a few hours most certainly aren’t.
Working Immigrants who pay tax are an important part of the future of this country as they will pay for the generous state pension that is costing the state a fortune.
Fg+FF don’t have the balls to cut pension or welfare to cut the cost of the runaway welfare system, so there are two options left:
(1) tax the working people more to pay for welfare.
(2) create more jobs and have more immigrants working who will pay tax and contribute to welfare.
(3) (I call this the option that’ll never happen as we don’t have a political party who will do this bar Renua, who are a joke shop) reform welfare and pensions, introduce a flat tax, get everyone to pay tax and contribute.

The Bishop Basher

What data is our Taoiseach using to make such bold statements ?

And seeing as he’s done absolutely sweet fluck all for those of us that do actually work, what’s his point ?

I don’t care what some lazy arseh0le down the road gets every dole day.

I only care about how much it’s costing me. Right now it’s costing us all way too much and despite all his bull**** promises and 2 budgets later, Leo has done sweet fluck all to sort it..

Leo the liar.

amcalester

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I would say that he worded it badly. Very badly indeed.

The average Irish person is working and paying taxes.

It's very reminiscent of an Endaism gaffe.

He also didnt say that the average Irish person isn't working.

He said an immigrant is more likely to be working that an Irish person.

If you're going to get outraged at least get outraged about what he actually said.

realdanbreen

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I work in a tech company and the Irish are well outnumbered; we have, at last count, 12 different nationalities, as well as a few 2nd generation.

I would say Leo is right tbh; for every non national we have working, there's likely 2-3 Margaret Cash types.

If the Irish are 'well outnumbered' it's because the wages/conditions are ****e.

ongarite

Same for the UK, immigrants are more likely to work and contribute more to economy.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-workers-uk-tax-treasury-brexit-migrants-british-citizens-a8542506.html?amp

The Bishop Basher

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Thats old news. Social welfare tightened things up & that no longer happens. They make non Irish sign on regularly where Irish actually sign on about once a year

Anyone claiming dole should be made sign on in person every day.

If they’re available for work it shouldn’t be a problem.

lawred2

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Oh Leo.....



Personally I think Leo is talking crap.

link

In my own industry, there's prob 1 in every 20 that would be considered an immigrant (and I include those from within the UK in those numbers)

Just like his "look after those who get up early in the morning" budget spiel (then giving those on sw more in most cases).

I thought the country was back to almost zero employment anyway?

It looks like Leo, (Just like his predecessor) shouldn't ever be allowed to stray too far from his handlers, and seldom left to stray too far from a proof read, pre approved script.

I bet he's statistically correct.

Have you evidence to the contrary?

JJJJNR

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Thats old news. Social welfare tightened things up & that no longer happens. They make non Irish sign on regularly where Irish actually sign on about once a year

Its still relevant, and theres no proof, just a PR announcement that they have tightened things up.

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm not sure what percentage of non Irish we have compared to Irish but I'd hazard a guess i in 20 is about right. Then you have jobs like hospital workers from cleaners to doctors would be a high amount of non Irish. Order a dominos & You wont get an Irish person delivering. Not from my branch you wont anyway. How many Irish work in Italian fish & chip shops? I have yet to see an irish person work in a Chinese take away or restaurant. There are industries that are almost non Irish as we no longer want to do the work

Your guess is very, very wrong.
Also you make it sound like you live in some apartheid state. Where I am most chinese would have an Irish person or two in them, half of delivery drivers are Irish and all the cleaners where I work are Irish.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

I bet he's statistically correct.

Have you evidence to the contrary?

Given that not many immigrants are of pension age he'll be able to say he's technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Johnny Dogs

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I would say that he worded it badly. Very badly indeed.

The average Irish person is working and paying taxes.

It's very reminiscent of an Endaism gaffe.

the bang of desperation off you

Sleeper12

Rennaws wrote: »

Anyone claiming dole should be made sign on in person every day.

If they’re available for work it shouldn’t be a problem.

Er, no. We want our unemployed out looking for jobs & not signing on.


If everyone had to sign on everyday we'd need bigger offices & more staff. It would cost the taxpayer more to pay out the same.



Bad business model

JJJJNR

He forgot the bit where they get the free stuff first (houses, buggys etc) and then go and pay tax, but still live in the free house without a mortgage.

Paulzx

We need to accept that the majority of the biggest wasters, spongers and benificaries of the "pay nothing take everything" chort are actually Irish nationals. The intergenerational welfare merchants who will never contribute anything except complain about the "bleedin immigrants coming here taking the jobs we'll never do"


I'm no fan of Leo but as one of the people who get up early in the morning I get the point he's making

El_Duderino 09

This was an argument in the Brexit referendum too. I think the research is fairly clear, especially for EU migrants. People move to work and have a decent standard of living. The ones who emigrated are the ones with the get-up-and-go to do something for themselves. The lazy foreigners are still in their own country just like some lazy Irish who live on the dole.

Overall I’d say it’s highly likely that migrants are working at a much higher rate than native Irish. The type of work they do might not put a lot of them in the higher income tax bracket, but it’s all work that needs to be done.

Sleeper12

Deleted User wrote: »

Your guess is very, very wrong.
Also you make it sound like you live in some apartheid state. Where I am most chinese would have an Irish person or two in them, half of delivery drivers are Irish and all the cleaners where I work are Irish.

You state as fact that my guess of one in 20 being about right yet you fail to provide any links backing up your claims. I'm calling BS here.

Lollipops23

realdanbreen wrote: »

If the Irish are 'well outnumbered' it's because the wages/conditions are ****e.

Nope- several of them moved from their countries (a lot of EU nationals) specifically for the job.

My own salary is decent, and we also get fully paid health insurance (that I'd never be able to afford).

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Thats old news. Social welfare tightened things up & that no longer happens. They make non Irish sign on regularly where Irish actually sign on about once a year

Only if you’re over 60 you need sign on once a year and get paid into the bank. Those signing on under 60 have to sign on once a month and collect their payment from post office.

I have to agree with Leo here. Lots of foreign nationals working around here while there are a few families of lifelong dolers.

elefant

Thread fail.

Tombo2001

JJJJNR wrote: »

He forgot the bit where they get the free stuff first (houses, buggys etc) and then go and pay tax, but still live in the free house without a mortgage.

I think thats exactly the stereotype he is trying to challenge. And it should be challenged. Because its pub talk.

Gravelly

Unless Leo (or someone else) produces solid CSO figures to back up his claim (and I've a feeling nobody will), then it's just another Leoism - a fluffy, empty statement that means little or nothing.

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

Given that not many immigrants are of pension age he'll be able to say he's technically correct. The best kind of correct.

It's also very unlikely that Leo is taking retired pensioners into account when talking about people of working age...

So really no idea what your point is.

Have you statistical evidence to technically disprove what he said?

seamus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This was an argument in the Brexit referendum too. I think the research is fairly clear, especially for EU migrants. People move to work and have a decent standard of living. The ones who emigrated are the ones with the get-up-and-go to do something for themselves. The lazy foreigners are still in their own country just like some lazy Irish who live on the dole.

Overall I’d say it’s highly likely that migrants are working at a much higher rate than native Irish. The type of work they do might not put a lot of them in the higher income tax bracket, but it’s all work that needs to be done.

It was a narrative started by racists and anti-immigration people, that immigrants were pouring into Europe to abuse our welfare system and send the money home. You'll still hear morons repeating "true stories" from a friend's uncle's colleague's sister about the black woman who left her buggy behind at the bus stop because "they'll give me a new one", or civil servants putting people to the top of the housing list "because they're black".

Ironically those who complain the most about immigrants seem to me, to be the most likely to be reliant on social welfare themselves.

JJJJNR

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I think thats exactly the stereotype he is trying to challenge. And it should be challenged. Because its pub talk.

Leo's PR machine in full swing!

Duck Soup

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Oh Leo.....



Personally I think Leo is talking crap.

link

In my own industry, there's prob 1 in every 20 that would be considered an immigrant (and I include those from within the UK in those numbers)

Just like his "look after those who get up early in the morning" budget spiel (then giving those on sw more in most cases).

I thought the country was back to almost zero employment anyway?

It looks like Leo, (Just like his predecessor) shouldn't ever be allowed to stray too far from his handlers, and seldom left to stray too far from a proof read, pre approved script.

Oh good grief, not this again.

1. No non-EU national can come to Ireland without guaranteed full time employment. They get what is called a Stamp 1 visa. Without it, you're gone. Without guaranteed employment, you won't get a Stamp 1 visa.

2. There has never been a survey - by governments in Europe of any political persuasion - that didn't show that immigrants as a group always contribute more than they take. As my dad used to say, "You don't travel halfway around the world to sit on your arse." What immigrants was he talking about? Himself and the Irish. He moved from Dublin when he was 20 to England. As an Irishman in England, he noticed that the Asian shift workers he oversaw worked longer and harder than anyone. "God they'd kill you for the overtime" he used to say.

It's a very Trumpian thing, this immigrants-as-a-drain-on-the-economy malarkey. "I know every fact shows it not to be true, but dagnabit I feel it to be true."

lawred2

It's refreshing to hear a politician say something positive about emigration given the normalised hatred that has to be listened to on a daily basis to the left and right of us.

suicide_circus

still waiting to see how he will look after the people who get up early for work every morning.

JJJJNR

So what is leo going to do to reverse that trend, or do we just import solutions and leave the non tax paying irish on the dole, to be replaced by more educated foreign nationals who probably regard them as lazy .

amcalester

JJJJNR wrote: »

So what is leo going to do to reverse that trend, or do we just import solutions and leave the non tax paying irish on the dole, to be replaced by more educated foreign nationals.

You can lead a horse to water...

DiscoStu

Duck Soup wrote: »

It's a very Trumpian thing, this immigrants-as-a-drain-on-the-economy malarkey. "I know every fact shows it not to be true, but dagnabit I feel it to be true."

Another case of Schrodinger's Immigrant. Too lazy to work while simultaneously taking all the jobs.

CrankyHaus

Isn't this simple demographics?

Immigrants are more concentrated in the working ages while native Irish are spread across the age cohorts to include many pensioners, children and students.

Gravelly

Duck Soup wrote: »

1. No non-EU national can come to Ireland without guaranteed full time employment. They get what is called a Stamp 1 visa. Without it, you're gone. Without guaranteed employment, you won't get a Stamp 1 visa.

This is patently untrue.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/

JJJJNR

amcalester wrote: »

You can lead a horse to water...

Its time to drain the lake.!

Podge_irl

Gravelly wrote: »

Unless Leo (or someone else) produces solid CSO figures to back up his claim (and I've a feeling nobody will), then it's just another Leoism - a fluffy, empty statement that means little or nothing.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/

CSO wrote:

There were 347,233 non-Irish nationals in labour force in April 2016 with a participation rate of 73.9 per cent. EU nationals had the highest participation rate at 76.8 per cent, whereas for those from countries outside the EU, it was 64.3 per cent.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-wamii/womenandmeninireland2016/employment/

In 2016 the employment rates for both men and women in Ireland were below the rates in the EU. The rate for men in Ireland of 69.9% was below the EU rate of 71.8% while the rate for women in Ireland of 59.5% was less than the rate for women in the EU of 61.4%.

There are a myriad of reasons behind this, a large part of which is demographics. It is not necessarily a stat that allows you to infer much. However, what he said is still true.

topper75

Not sure why he is rushing in to defend 'immigrants'. Not many in the circles I move in have any beef with them. 90+% of them are legal and work.

Bogus asylum claimants. Now, try and make the same claim about them Leo...

Gravelly

Podge_irl wrote: »

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/



https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-wamii/womenandmeninireland2016/employment/




There are a myriad of reasons behind this, a large part of which is demographics. It is not necessarily a stat that allows you to infer much. However, what he said is still true.

The statistics contained above (which I looked at earlier really don't back up what Leo is saying. I'm not actually saying he is wrong - he quite possibly is correct, however he is the Taoiseach and shouldn't be coming out with these kind of Enda-like claims unless he can prove them.

mcmoustache

topper75 wrote: »

Bogus asylum claimants. Now, try and make the same claim about them Leo...

Speaking of bogus asylum seekers, whatever happened to that Pamela one?

biko

"Immigrants" are all lumped together into one group.
According to research carried out in The Guardian, 11,222 British nationals are <in 2015> claiming the dole in Ireland, almost five times the amount of Irish people (2,620) currently claiming social welfare in the UK.
In 2012 25% of Polish in Ireland were on the dole, according to independent.ie