Nazi Art

cfuserkildare

Where did all the artwork liberated by the Monuments Men go to?
Just watching Forbidden History and got to wondering where it all went?

Snotty

I think the "dogs playing poker" is in the White House now

dxhound2005

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Where did all the artwork liberated by the Monuments Men go to?
Just watching Forbidden History and got to wondering where it all went?

I knew Hitler was a painter. Never heard of Monuments Men or Forbidden History.

The bargepole is broken, hence this insightful comment.

whisky_galore

Back to the museums or galleries they came out of, or the owners, if they could be traced that is.

Your Face

It's all on Adverts.ie

Atoms for Peace

The final remaining member of the flying hellfish, left alive, will inherit it.

Ninthlife

I read last year German police raided a flat in Munich that contained numerous paintings and antiques stolen by the Nazis from Jewish families.

The occupier of the flat would sell a high priced item every couple of years and use the proceeds to live off

The Rape of Lucretia

Whatever way you look at, this is one fine piece of art :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7eOUzjn7pM

The visuals are quite superb in so much of, even if you dont like Hitler that much.

CFlat

Ninthlife wrote: »

I read last year German police raided a flat in Munich that contained numerous paintings and antiques stolen by the Nazis from Jewish families.

The occupier of the flat would sell a high priced item every couple of years and use the proceeds to live off

He wasn't The Highlander by any chance?

indioblack

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I knew Hitler was a painter.

"Hitler, there was a painter. He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon. Two coats!"
The Producers.

Wibbs

Back in the 90's I was offered an original Hitler watercolour/gouache of a farmyard scene for around 800 quid IIRC. I was tempted TBH. Both for the historical aspect and it was actually well done and decorative. He was pure shite at painting people and the like, but his landscapes and architectural stuff was pretty decent. Again IIRC he wanted to be an architect? He certainly had some talent for art. In my humble a better talent than one of his nemesis' Churchill, whose watercolours are heavy handed.

I didn't go for it in the end as A, my dad reckoned "it'll do you no good to have that prick's art on your wall", and B, I had other avenues where the 800 quid was sorely needed. In retrospect I'm sorry I didn't buy. Investment wise it would be worth at least an added zero, and for me the best thing to do with historical items that may cause discomfort is to render them more inert by modern usage. Swords into ploughshares kinda thing.

I say that typing on my laptop which resides on top of a WW2 ammo box for a Junkers JU 87 "PanzerKnacker" turned into a laptop table. When I enjoy a boiled egg of a morning, it usually sits in a U-Boat eggcup. For me, that's how you think about, integrate and defuse a past that needs thinking about, integrating and defusing.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Whatever way you look at, this is one fine piece of art :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7eOUzjn7pM

The visuals are quite superb in so much of, even if you dont like Hitler that much.

Directed by a woman too. Way ahead of their time.

Chorcai

Wibbs wrote: »

Back in the 90's I was offered an original Hitler watercolour/gouache of a farmyard scene for around 800 quid IIRC. I was tempted TBH. Both for the historical aspect and it was actually well done and decorative. He was pure shite at painting people and the like, but his landscapes and architectural stuff was pretty decent. Again IIRC he wanted to be an architect? He certainly had some talent for art. In my humble a better talent than one of his nemesis' Churchill, whose watercolours are heavy handed.

I didn't go for it in the end as A, my dad reckoned "it'll do you no good to have that prick's art on your wall", and B, I had other avenues where the 800 quid was sorely needed. In retrospect I'm sorry I didn't buy. Investment wise it would be worth at least an added zero, and for me the best thing to do with historical items that may cause discomfort is to render them more inert by modern usage. Swords into ploughshares kinda thing.

Jake and Dino Champman did a whole series of works where they "prettified" Hitlers work. They explain it here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBvfgJWC0WA

Del.Monte

Poor old Adolf was quite an accomplished landscape artist but he wasn't from the right social class for the establishment. One wonders how the course of history could have run very differently had his ability been recognised. Too Germanic for my taste not to mention my pocket.

Atoms for Peace

What do you call a traveller with a panzer tank?

indioblack

Del.Monte wrote: »

Poor old Adolf was quite an accomplished landscape artist but he wasn't from the right social class for the establishment. One wonders how the course of history could have run very differently had his ability been recognised. Too Germanic for my taste not to mention my pocket.

Have to add this one:
"I can't get the f...ing trees right - damn, I will kill everyone in the world!"
Eddie Izzard.

Donald Trump

Wibbs wrote: »

Back in the 90's I was offered an original Hitler watercolour/gouache of a farmyard scene for around 800 quid IIRC. I was tempted TBH. Both for the historical aspect and it was actually well done and decorative. He was pure shite at painting people and the like, but his landscapes and architectural stuff was pretty decent. Again IIRC he wanted to be an architect? He certainly had some talent for art. In my humble a better talent than one of his nemesis' Churchill, whose watercolours are heavy handed.

I didn't go for it in the end as A, my dad reckoned "it'll do you no good to have that prick's art on your wall", and B, I had other avenues where the 800 quid was sorely needed. In retrospect I'm sorry I didn't buy. Investment wise it would be worth at least an added zero, and for me the best thing to do with historical items that may cause discomfort is to render them more inert by modern usage. Swords into ploughshares kinda thing.

I say that typing on my laptop which resides on top of a WW2 ammo box for a Junkers JU 87 "PanzerKnacker" turned into a laptop table. When I enjoy a boiled egg of a morning, it usually sits in a U-Boat eggcup. For me, that's how you think about, integrate and defuse a past that needs thinking about, integrating and defusing.

PanzerKnacker is my word of the day for today.

Where can I find one?

Would make a good chat up line - "Wanna come back to mine to see my PanzerKnacker?"

riffmongous

His art is boring and conservative, Vienna at the start of the century was home to the Secession, the likes of Klimt and Wagner and a desire to break free from the stuffy, rigid styles of the past centuries in art and architecture. You needed either vision and talent to make a start, both to succeed and Hitler had neither

wally79

Wibbs wrote: »

Back in the 90's I was offered an original Hitler watercolour/gouache of a farmyard scene for around 800 quid IIRC. I was tempted TBH. Both for the historical aspect and it was actually well done and decorative. He was pure shite at painting people and the like, but his landscapes and architectural stuff was pretty decent. Again IIRC he wanted to be an architect? He certainly had some talent for art. In my humble a better talent than one of his nemesis' Churchill, whose watercolours are heavy handed.

I didn't go for it in the end as A, my dad reckoned "it'll do you no good to have that prick's art on your wall", and B, I had other avenues where the 800 quid was sorely needed. In retrospect I'm sorry I didn't buy. Investment wise it would be worth at least an added zero, and for me the best thing to do with historical items that may cause discomfort is to render them more inert by modern usage. Swords into ploughshares kinda thing.

I say that typing on my laptop which resides on top of a WW2 ammo box for a Junkers JU 87 "PanzerKnacker" turned into a laptop table. When I enjoy a boiled egg of a morning, it usually sits in a U-Boat eggcup. For me, that's how you think about, integrate and defuse a past that needs thinking about, integrating and defusing.

Yes, these would be German as well?
That's right.
Nothing from the Allied side?
No, that sort of thing wouldn't interest me at all.

Wibbs

Donald Trump wrote: »

PanzerKnacker is my word of the day for today.

Where can I find one?

Good luck with that one. Extremely rare these days. They only built a couple of dozen of the aircraft so bits and bobs attached to them were rare enough in the first place. Mind you can get all sorts of WW2 ammo crates on ebay which would make good if odd coffee tables.

riffmongous wrote: »

His art is boring and conservative, Vienna at the start of the century was home to the Secession, the likes of Klimt and Wagner and a desire to break free from the stuffy, rigid styles of the past centuries in art and architecture. You needed either vision and talent to make a start, both to succeed and Hitler had neither

Oh true R, but at the time 99% of working artists weren't doing the Modernist stuff and 99% of the public weren't buying it. Boring and conservative was the order of the day. Still is to a large extent. Few enough people's houses contain "modern art" even today. He could have worked as an illustrator for magazines, postcards and the like.

wally79 wrote:

Yes, these would be German as well?
That's right.
Nothing from the Allied side?
No, that sort of thing wouldn't interest me at all.

Suckler

Your Face wrote: »

It's all on Adverts.ie

Swap your Vermeer or Klimt for a 1.1 VW Polo no tax no NCT ? Some old gardening tools in the boot I'll throw in as well.

Hector Savage

Wibbs wrote: »

Back in the 90's I was offered an original Hitler watercolour/gouache of a farmyard scene for around 800 quid IIRC. I was tempted TBH. Both for the historical aspect and it was actually well done and decorative. He was pure shite at painting people and the like, but his landscapes and architectural stuff was pretty decent. Again IIRC he wanted to be an architect? He certainly had some talent for art. In my humble a better talent than one of his nemesis' Churchill, whose watercolours are heavy handed.

I didn't go for it in the end as A, my dad reckoned "it'll do you no good to have that prick's art on your wall", and B, I had other avenues where the 800 quid was sorely needed. In retrospect I'm sorry I didn't buy. Investment wise it would be worth at least an added zero, and for me the best thing to do with historical items that may cause discomfort is to render them more inert by modern usage. Swords into ploughshares kinda thing.

I say that typing on my laptop which resides on top of a WW2 ammo box for a Junkers JU 87 "PanzerKnacker" turned into a laptop table. When I enjoy a boiled egg of a morning, it usually sits in a U-Boat eggcup. For me, that's how you think about, integrate and defuse a past that needs thinking about, integrating and defusing.

You racist nazi bigot!!!

Seriously, imagine if you were a person anywhere in the public eye, could you imagine the lynchmob after you now.

The headlines.

Wibbs admires Nazi art!
Has collection!
<photo of father ted nazi priests with giant swastika in background>

Wibbs

Hector Savage wrote: »

You racist nazi bigot!!!

Seriously, imagine if you were a person anywhere in the public eye, could you imagine the lynchmob after you now.

I suppose it depends on the person involved. Lemmy of Motorhead fame was an avid collector of nazi memorabilia, flags, uniforms, daggers, that sorta thing, including at one point a tank. As you do..



Now if a holier than thou Hollywood type did similar I'd say there'd be hell to pay alright. It depends on why someone collects that sorta thing. Most I'd reckon would just be collectors and that happens to be their thing, a few no doubt would be Neo nazi types. Not good. A true nazi nutbag would have hated someone like Lemmy going around wearing that stuff. Good I say.

ohnonotgmail

Wibbs wrote: »

I suppose it depends on the person involved. Lemmy of Motorhead fame was an avid collector of nazi memorabilia, flags, uniforms, daggers, that sorta thing, including at one point a tank. As you do..



Now if a holier than thou Hollywood type did similar I'd say there'd be hell to pay alright. It depends on why someone collects that sorta thing. Most I'd reckon would just be collectors and that happens to be their thing, a few no doubt would be Neo nazi types. Not good. A true nazi nutbag would have hated someone like Lemmy going around wearing that stuff. Good I say.

That is not a tank.

Effects

Wibbs wrote: »

Back in the 90's I was offered an original Hitler watercolour/gouache of a farmyard scene for around 800 quid IIRC.

It was probably a fake. Lots of them knocking about.

Wibbs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

That is not a tank.

as I typed it I just knew... Shorthand for the non anal; tank. For the anal; Jagdpanzer(though technically it's kinda still a "tank").

Effects wrote: »

It was probably a fake. Lots of them knocking about.

Possibly E, though provenance was pretty solid and it was pre the interwebs and the massive rise in the number of collectors(of anything) and the need to feed the market with fakes.

wexie

Wibbs wrote: »

, and for me the best thing to do with historical items that may cause discomfort is to render them more inert by modern usage. Swords into ploughshares kinda thing.

Awful lot more sensible and useful approach I think than the current trend of trying to erase/whitewash history, pull down statues and all that guff.

ohnonotgmail

Wibbs wrote: »

as I typed it I just knew... Shorthand for the non anal; tank. For the anal; Jagdpanzer.

Jadgpanzer 38 to be exact.

wexie

Wibbs wrote: »

Now if a holier than thou Hollywood type did similar I'd say there'd be hell to pay alright. It depends on why someone collects that sorta thing.

Maybe people realized that Lemmy wouldn't have given 2 ****s

Victor

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Where did all the artwork liberated by the Monuments Men go to?
Just watching Forbidden History and got to wondering where it all went?

People are still trying to recover stolen property: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/02/french-court-orders-return-of-looted-painting-to-jewish-family?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

SoyBoy69

riffmongous wrote: »

His art is boring and conservative

It is conservative. But it's also rather evocative I feel. There is something there. Not dissimilar to many pretty, semi-interesting watercolours you see in the peripheries of people's homes. Not everyone needs to be Cézanne orErnst Kirchner

Wibbs

SoyBoy69 wrote: »

Not dissimilar to many pretty, semi-interesting watercolours you see in the peripheries of people's homes. Not everyone needs to be Cnne orErnst Kirchner

Pretty much. As I noted earlier few enough people have "modern art" type stuff in their homes. The century of Modernism that roughly lasted from the 1870's to the 1970's had little enough impact on widespread "ordinary people's" taste in the arts. The biggest success by far would have been the Impressionists. They were and remain popular alright.

Ask anyone involved in the trade selling canvas prints and the like. Family snaps, evocative(and usually obvious) landscape photos/paintings and your Monet's et al are the big sellers. Sales of Georges Braque's or the Fauvists would be very slow. Surrealists get a look in at times. Well Dali does.

Modernist stuff tends to be a little too uncomfortable for most general tastes to want on their walls staring back at them. These days that stuff is mostly for corporate buyers where it's sold by the yard. Never mind the quality, feel the width. Nothing too uncomfortable either. Lots of colour. For most of human history art, if it was even seen as a concept in of itself, was liked, even loved by the general population. If a blacksmith could have afforded a Titian he would have had one on his wall. Modernism changed that dialogue to quite a degree.

Del.Monte

And for those of you who like Abstract/Semi-Abstract/Conceptual/Contemporary/Cubist/Expressionist/Minimalist... why not indulge yourselves on my site here:https://irishartindex.wordpress.com/abstract/

Wibbs

Interestingly enough, the Nazi's sworn enemy, the Soviet Union embraced Modernism in a big way in art and architecture. The Nazi's allies, the Italian Fascists, being.. well, Italian, embraced both the old and the new art, the conservative and contemporary. They particularly dug the latter in architecture. Hitler was a bit nonplussed by their attitude to the "New Art". The French, being French and being the birthplace and nursery of Modernism also embraced both, but with more of a nod towards Modernism.

Dyr

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

That is not a tank.

Also he didn't collect it, he was just mucking around in it for a documentary. Lemmy wasnt a mega star with a period mansion in Buckinghamshire and a fleet of vintage motors, he lived in a tiny flat in L.A, hardly likely to be parking a jagdpanzer out front

DesperateDan

There is a show on Channel 4 right now called Nazi Treasure Hunters. It's full of some pretty silly scenes (diving in lakes for no good reason etc.) but some really interesting stuff as well. They basically explore this exact topic and follow the current day Monuments Men foundation for a little while which is tasked with returning items to rightful owners. The Altaussee Salt Mine was full of gold as well as art.

A large quantity of the gold is still believed to be in Swiss bank vaults where it fell to them after 60 years of no one coming back for it.

Wibbs

Bambi wrote: »

Also he didn't collect it, he was just mucking around in it for a documentary. Lemmy wasnt a mega star with a period mansion in Buckinghamshire and a fleet of vintage motors, he lived in a tiny flat in L.A, hardly likely to be parking a jagdpanzer out front

From what I remember he had a part ownership in it. There was a time that stuff wasn't particularly expensive.

sbsquarepants

Wibbs wrote: »

Lemmy of Motorhead fame was an avid collector of nazi memorabilia, flags, uniforms, daggers, that sorta thing, including at one point a tank. As you do..


.

The Nazis, sure they had their dark side, but they also had some nice looking shít. They were as stylish a bunch of genocidal warmongers as you're ever likely to come across:D

DesperateDan

Obligatory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JOpPNra4bw

weldoninhio

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Where did all the artwork liberated by the Monuments Men go to?
Just watching Forbidden History and got to wondering where it all went?

I’d say a lot of it is locked away in the Vatican as payment for the Ratline.

Dan Jaman

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The Nazis, sure they had their dark side, but they also had some nice looking sh They were as stylish a bunch of genocidal warmongers as you're ever likely to come across:D

National Socialist Party.

Uniformed by Boss.
For distinctive flair and style for your genocidal Master Race, contact Hugo.
Office hours only.

TheValeyard

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The Nazis, sure they had their dark side, but they also had some nice looking shít. They were as stylish a bunch of genocidal warmongers as you're ever likely to come across:D

Depends on his mood

sbsquarepants

That's like something from a 1940's Das Familien Album catalogue, mens extermination camp, autumn casual section:D

Wibbs

Dan Jaman wrote: »

National Socialist Party.

Uniformed by Boss.
For distinctive flair and style for your genocidal Master Race, contact Hugo.
Office hours only.

Well Hugo Boss was one of the early supporters of the Nazi's. Joined the party very early and joined the SS too. He was one of the main suppliers of Nazi uniforms, particularly the SS uniforms. He didn't design them. IIRC that was a SS guy who was a graphic designer. The connection turned Boss from a bankrupt into a very wealthy man by the time the war kicked off. After the war he was tried as someone who helped and profited from the Nazi's and was banned from owning a business. One of his kids took over so they got around that. Got a hefty fine too, but wasn't nearly enough to clean him out. With very few exceptions German business owners who supported the regime got off scot free. Nasty business all around.

larchill

Saw the Nazi Treasures programme on More 4 alright. A candle stand at a Berlin flea market was identified as being of jewish origin. This stuff must be floating all around Europe and pops up from time to time. While in Bucharest during the summer, I came across Nazi medals at a flea market there!

Of greater interest was the More 4 programme that followed: The Rise and Fall of Hitler. Covered were the sequence of events that brought Hitler to power. Of greater interest though was Hitlers idiosyncracies. He fornificated with his niece who was half his age. When she exited this world he took up with Eva Braun his mistress to the end.

sbsquarepants

larchill wrote: »

Of greater interest was the More 4 programme that followed: The Rise and Fall of Hitler. Covered were the sequence of events that brought Hitler to power. Of greater interest though was Hitlers idiosyncracies. He fornificated with his niece who was half his age. When she exited this world he took up with Eva Braun his mistress to the end.

I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I remember hearing an interview on the radio about with a woman who had researched Hitlers sex life (as you do)

She said he was openly gay until his mid 20's or so, when he then started dating women for some reason (which would explain the genocidal rage I suppose:)). She said as best she could confirm he'd slept with 7 or 8 women - all of whom committed suicide, bar one I think it was, who attempted it but survived.

Apparently getting jiggy with Adolf was not a pleasant experience!

weldoninhio

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I remember hearing an interview on the radio about with a woman who had researched Hitlers sex life (as you do)

She said he was openly gay until his mid 20's or so, when he then started dating women for some reason (which would explain the genocidal rage I suppose:)). She said as best she could confirm he'd slept with 7 or 8 women - all of whom committed suicide, bar one I think it was, who attempted it but survived.

Apparently getting jiggy with Adolf was not a pleasant experience!

I think his niece, who he was sleeping with, survived a suicide attempt.

Zebra3

Wibbs wrote: »

Well Hugo Boss was one of the early supporters of the Nazi's. Joined the party very early and joined the SS too. He was one of the main suppliers of Nazi uniforms, particularly the SS uniforms. He didn't design them. IIRC that was a SS guy who was a graphic designer. The connection turned Boss from a bankrupt into a very wealthy man by the time the war kicked off. After the war he was tried as someone who helped and profited from the Nazi's and was banned from owning a business. One of his kids took over so they got around that. Got a hefty fine too, but wasn't nearly enough to clean him out. With very few exceptions German business owners who supported the regime got off scot free. Nasty business all around.

Sure the Americans compensated the likes of GM for bombing their factories that were supplying Germany with military vehicles.

Quite incredible.