Will Bus Connects take cars off M50

cgcsb

Patww79 wrote: »

Quicker and cheaper doesn't necessarily mean better. Having a one bus trip just pushed it over the edge of being preferable to a car but not having that makes sitting in your own car a better prospect.

Speed, cost, geographic convenience and reliability are the most important factors when considering modal choice. Other factors are changing, socio economic class, educational attainment, psychology, weather, number of interchanges and a whole host of other reasons. If BusConnects can improve speed and reliability to a large degree, an additional interchange won't act as a deterrent. When calculating mode choice and mode utility speed and reliability will get weighted at 10, interchange is often rated as a -2, or even -1.

OldMrBrennan83

cgcsb wrote: »

Speed, cost, geographic convenience and reliability are the most important factors when considering modal choice. Other factors are changing, socio economic class, educational attainment, psychology, weather, number of interchanges and a whole host of other reasons. If BusConnects can improve speed and reliability to a large degree, an additional interchange won't act as a deterrent. When calculating mode choice and mode utility speed and reliability will get weighted at 10, interchange is often rated as a -2, or even -1.

They're weighted wherever the individual user feels they should be for them.

For me interchanging (and more importantly, location of it) would be weighted 10, this being convenience.

cgcsb

Patww79 wrote: »

They're weighted wherever the individual user feels they should be for them.

For me interchanging (and more importantly, location of it) would be weighted 10, this being convenience.

Transport planning is a scientific persuit for the most part, human behavior is modelled and behavior is predicted. You as an individual might rank those things differently (however irrational that might seem). But the general case remains the same. When it comes to innovations though, people rarely actually know what they want. You could decide now that prefer to drive because of some irrational fear of changing, but when you are stuck in traffic 3 hours a day and see buses whizzing past your left wingmirror you may well change your mind. Before the railways people wanted more canals and more donkeys and generally feared the technology and derided it as unreliable.

Isambard

cgcsb wrote: »

Through an extensive diversion no doubt. Maybe around the canals and in via Summerhill I'd imagine.

Presumably there will have to be access for commercial vehicles to deliver.

Stephen15

Patww79 wrote: »

The train leaves you (well me, for where I'd be going anyway) in such a place that you'd need to be finding further transport anyway.

Perhaps the assumption was that most people in Dunboyne use the train to get to town and would more frequent local services.

OldMrBrennan83

cgcsb wrote: »

Transport planning is a scientific persuit for the most part, human behavior is modelled and behavior is predicted. You as an individual might rank those things differently (however irrational that might seem). But the general case remains the same. When it comes to innovations though, people rarely actually know what they want. You could decide now that prefer to drive because of some irrational fear of changing, but when you are stuck in traffic 3 hours a day and see buses whizzing past your left wingmirror you may well change your mind. Before the railways people wanted more canals and more donkeys and generally feared the technology and derided it as unreliable.

People don't know what they want?Not a chance. It's more that the people doing the planning wouldn't know what it was like having to get a bus and are completely out of touch with what people actually want.



_

cgcsb

Isambard wrote: »

Presumably there will have to be access for commercial vehicles to deliver.

Usual arrangements for delivery hours I guess, except it'll be enforced by camera, software and hefty fines.

cgcsb

Patww79 wrote: »

People don't know what they want?Not a chance. It's more that the people doing the planning wouldn't know what it was like having to get a bus and are completely out of touch with what people actually want.



_

Why would you think those people are out of touch or don't use buses? The thing about planning is it aims to provide a societal need, not an individual want.

Jellybaby1

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

We regularly have to drive to Cathal Brugha St from Harold's Cross with large boxes of equipment in the car. There is no way we could take a bus. How would we be able to continue this journey if they prevent cars driving on the quays?

The same way that you should be doing it now, since you can't turn onto CB St. from O'Connell St anymore. i.e. via either
a) Merrion Sq. / Tara St / Gardiner St or
b) Clanbrassil St / Bolton St. / Mountjoy Sq.

What route do you currently take?

OldMrBrennan83

cgcsb wrote: »

Why would you think those people are out of touch or don't use buses? The thing about planning is it aims to provide a societal need, not an individual want.

Societal need? Next thing you'll be on about the environment (now that's one that's a -100 for me, or however low these weights go).

OscarMIlde

cgcsb wrote: »

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I doubt Bus Connects will even exist. At least nothing like the current balls up they have proposed.

And not for years.

It's a pretty solid plan. Only a handful of notable negative consequences. 92% of commuters will retain direct buses to the City Centre, and gain improved orbital access and everyone will benefit from improved frequency. The small issues e.g. Donebate and xpresso services can easily be corrected.

It's not a solid plan since it places far more emphasis on attracting fair weather bus users than improving commute times of ordinary working people, which is one of the biggest life stresses for many in the greater Dublin area.

cgcsb

OscarMIlde wrote: »

It's not a solid plan since it places far more emphasis on attracting fair weather bus users than improving commute times of ordinary working people, which is one of the biggest life stresses for many in the greater Dublin area.

Incorrect journey time improvement is at the centre of the plan. The detailed publication on the infrastructure will be published shortly.

ThunbergsAreGo

CatInABox wrote: »

I can also easily imagine that once BusConnects is bedded in, the price of parking, both on street and in multi stories will be increased. Not massively to start out with, but steadily increased over a number of years.

Why is this in any way linked to Bus connects?

ThunbergsAreGo

cgcsb wrote: »

Speed, cost, geographic convenience and reliability are the most important factors when considering modal choice. Other factors are changing, socio economic class, educational attainment, psychology, weather, number of interchanges and a whole host of other reasons. If BusConnects can improve speed and reliability to a large degree, an additional interchange won't act as a deterrent. When calculating mode choice and mode utility speed and reliability will get weighted at 10, interchange is often rated as a -2, or even -1.

It will on the way back though

It is all well and good going from a journey with 30 minutes frequency to one with a 5 minute frequency.

But on the way back any delay has the possibility of costing you 30 minutes or you need to build massive buffer into your commute

OscarMIlde

cgcsb wrote: »

Incorrect journey time improvement is at the centre of the plan. The detailed publication on the infrastructure will be published shortly.

Not true for Celbridge, Maynooth, or Leixlip. Reduced frequency at peak times, no more expresso routes and the so called express routes designed to replace them will be full to capacity at stop one and have an even longer route than they ordinarily do. The only minimal gain is bypassing Chapelizod for regular buses, which should have been done eons ago and still all buses go through the gridlock of Lucan village. Celbridge routes will likely get even longer as they now have to go through Leixlip also. I spend 4 hours a day commuting from Maynooth on Dublin bus and it will get longer under bus connects.

In short journey time is not at the centre of the plan, linking up areas is, if it was such asinine changes wouldn't have been made.

Stephen15

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Not true for Celbridge, Maynooth, or Leixlip. Reduced frequency at peak times, no more expresso routes and the so called express routes designed to replace them will be full to capacity at stop one and have an even longer route than they ordinarily do. The only minimal gain is bypassing Chapelizod for regular buses, which should have been done eons ago and still all buses go through the gridlock of Lucan village. Celbridge routes will likely get even longer as they now have to go through Leixlip also. I spend 4 hours a day commuting from Maynooth on Dublin bus and it will get longer under bus connects.

Why wouldn't you use the train from Maynooth?

OscarMIlde

Stephen15 wrote: »

Why wouldn't you use the train from Maynooth?

Because I commute to UCD and the train is too infrequent if I have to work late. It's also a fair walk from Sydney Parade when it's raining.

L1011

Stephen15 wrote: »

Why wouldn't you use the train from Maynooth?

The trains are full already

monument

To answer the original question:

jos_kel wrote: »

Hi,
I currently commute from Lucan to Sandyford on the M50 by car.
Until recently the company was in the city centre, so the bus commute was a lot less stressful.
Will bus connect connect place like lucan, tallaght and Dublin west to Sandyford and Dublin South.
TIA

In and around a growing city — especially with growing commuters towns which are dominated by car travel — traffic will fill to capacity.

So, even if you provide a Metro West solution that attracts some people out of cars, that space will fill up with other commuters.

If you want to reduce car use it’s demand management, and/or removal of car space and time that’s needed with a shift of priority and capacity to walking, cycling and public transport (ie Amsterdam, Utrecht, and what’s Dublin has been doing on a smaller level to now).

cgcsb

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Not true for Celbridge, Maynooth, or Leixlip. Reduced frequency at peak times, no more expresso routes and the so called express routes designed to replace them will be full to capacity at stop one and have an even longer route than they ordinarily do. The only minimal gain is bypassing Chapelizod for regular buses, which should have been done eons ago and still all buses go through the gridlock of Lucan village. Celbridge routes will likely get even longer as they now have to go through Leixlip also. I spend 4 hours a day commuting from Maynooth on Dublin bus and it will get longer under bus connects.

In short journey time is not at the centre of the plan, linking up areas is, if it was such asinine changes wouldn't have been made.

All those buses will be whizzing around the Chapelizod bypass instead of snailing through Chapelizod, you will see a reduction in Journey time as a result on normal buses. It is expected that a revised plan will include a beefed up express service. All buses through Leixlip and Maynooth will have an increase in frequency or remain the same. The C3(replacing 66) for example will go to every 10 minutes at peak times and bypass Chapelizod.vYou'll be saving 15 minutes or more at peak times.

OscarMIlde

cgcsb wrote: »

All those buses will be whizzing around the Chapelizod bypass instead of snailing through Chapelizod, you will see a reduction in Journey time as a result on normal buses. It is expected that a revised plan will include a beefed up express service. All buses through Leixlip and Maynooth will have an increase in frequency or remain the same. The C3(replacing 66) for example will go to every 10 minutes at peak times and bypass Chapelizod.vYou'll be saving 15 minutes or more at peak times.

Not with an express bus that no longer bypasses Lucan. Not if the express bus now also goes through Ballsbridge. Not if there are only three express buses from maynooth in the morning and three leaving UCD at ridiculously early times in the evening (16:30, 16:50, 17:10). That is what the geniuses at busconnects came up with for an area where huge areas have been rezoned for housing developments. I have no faith they will fix it, they should never have made such a balls up of it in the first place.