Doctor Who Season 11 [** Spoilers **]

coffee_cake

Finally starting to catch up. I took a break after the spiders but the last few eps have been great!
The spaceship one and the punjab one. This kerblam one has some lines in it.
"they're trying to kill all their customers? That's the worst business plan I've ever heard". Ok some preaching going on but sure there always is.

We're learning snippets of info about anti matter or history, the doctor knows what's what and comes up with plans old style like with the transmat trap.
Few tennant style "ohhh im so stupid!" while the companions trail along going uwotm8 moments

The music is no murray gold is all I'll say...

It seems to have picked way up now imo from the first few eps

RayCun wrote: »

I think there's a deliberate back to basics attitude this season. Toned down opening sequence and music. Self contained episodes. More historical episodes. Local threats rather than the fate of the universe being constantly at stake. The doctor as a traveller in time and space rather than the super amazing last timelord.

A bit of a relief really.

Totally agree no more lonely doctor superman.

dori_dormer wrote: »

Enjoyed this week!

Thought it funny last week that the computer placed her exactly where she needed to be to help(maintenence) but switched herself!

Ahhhh no way i totally missed that good spot!!

ebbsy

Terrible finale.

Apparently the next season is in 2020....no Christmas episode this year....

If this was in its first season on Fox etc there iwouldn't be a 2nd season. Whether it's a man or woman I dont give a ****e at this point.

Not even Tom Baker could carry these scripts. And does anyone else think that the production values have been trimmed back ?

fritzelly

The Xmas special is on New Years day, going to watch it now (edit: not the special)

But 2020 - death knells for the series.

flazio

fritzelly wrote: »

The Xmas special is on New Years day, going to watch it now (edit: not the special)

But 2020 - death knells for the series.

We survived the 2009 specials and there was also just the one episode in 2016 (Return of Doctor Mysterio) This could be a chance for Chris to take stock, decide what did and didn’t work. (Jodie works fine if you ask me) and improve for season 12.

pixelburp

I feel like Dr. Who has been at death's door since Eccleston days, every blip in the ratings, every casting issue proof - PROOF! - that the show was mere moments from cancellation. Not sure why this show in particular is source of people's obsession, I don't see this same kind of chatter for any other show.

And yes, they moved the Xmas special to New Years Day, and thank goodness for that. Who in 2018 still watches TV as it airs on Xmas day anyway?

CastorTroy

ebbsy wrote: »

Not even Tom Baker could carry these scripts. And does anyone else think that the production values have been trimmed back ?

I think so. This season must have the most human looking aliens in recent years. Most of the time, they don't even bother using makeup or anything to distinguish them from aliens.

Did feel the Doctor was actually better in this episode

In makeup maybe but some of the VFX have a much higher budget that Capaldi could have dreamed of.

Damn it, they really never gave Capaldi anything to work with. Always seemed aimless and disjointed.
Something they are carrying on with Whitaker.

ebbsy

Deleted User wrote: »

In makeup maybe but some of the VFX have a much higher budget that Capaldi could have dreamed of.

Damn it, they really never gave Capaldi anything to work with. Always seemed aimless and disjointed.
Something they are carrying on with Whitaker.

True, but at least his acting skills were strong enough to pull it along ?

RayCun

ebbsy wrote: »

True, but at least his acting skills were strong enough to pull it along ?

The Capaldi version had an easy hook - he was the older, grumpier doctor (but with a heart of gold beneath the grumpy exterior, naturally). If they lean too hard into Whittaker being female it'll be toys out of the pram time again, so she has to develop the role slowly.

pixelburp

For all intents and purposes this has felt like a reboot; as RayCun says they had to play this series very carefully, given the obvious tightrope that Whittaker's doctor had to walk in winning over the sceptics and cautious alike.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little sceptical myself over Whittaker: clearly this was uncharted territory in terms of what constituted the 'template' of the Doctor, and wasn't 100% convinced she could carry this. But IMO she nailed it - after Capaldi's grumpy-grandad routine, ANY new Doctor was going to grate.

It was quite noteworthy that it wasn't until episode 8 they chose to make the Doctor's gender an issue within the plot (when King James refused to acknowledge her authority by dint of her being a woman). Felt like a deliberate decision to just let the character bed in a little before reminding the audience that this Doctor had a potential narrative crutch.

Whitaker is VERY good. Still unsure as to the "why?" around the change though.
Always liked the male intellectual, non violent and gunless "action" hero. Just very few of them in entertainment

But, as above, happy enough watching her. They've got the casting right regardless of anything else

pixelburp

Yeah as finales go that was a bit underwhelming really; I was happy enough the season didn't contain any clear arcs until now, though had just assumed the final two episodes would form some broad two-part capper, events suitably ramped up to a climax. I didn't buy into Graham's sudden urge for vengeance either; and while I've enjoyed Bradley Walsh's performance otherwise, his matter-of-fact pronouncements of murderous intent didn't land.

Suppose technically not the last episode of the season given the New Years one is only a couple of weeks away, so hopefully that'll be something a bit more intriguing. The decision to have no returning villains was brave & initially thought it a smart decision - but the season definitely needed something, or someone to focus the stories a little sharper.

Still, in the spirit of the season getting back to basics and echoing past stylings of the Classic Era, it was heartening to watch an episode set within a quarry Very old-school!

I also think the FX have been better this season than other years: still a lot of tarted-up 'bottle' episodes, but the CGI and use of effects have been smart and good-for-TV, coupled with the epic location shooting that added to the scale and sweep (such as with The Ghost Monument, or the story set in India).

fritzelly

Have I read it wrong that BW is leaving?

Pity if true. Far better than the other two.

Companions been week this season. Pity Bill only got the one

Das Kitty

That finale script wasn't great. I'd love to see Jodie stay and Chibnall leave. Or at least get other writers to do most of the scripts. She's been great when she's had well written dialogue to work with.

I went back and started watching some of the RTD era episodes. And even the worst ones make more narrative sense and have better dialogue than these have had.

CastorTroy

When was the last time we had a full season with no familiar enemies or allies returning?
Everything was new here. New Doctor, new TARDIS, new companions, new enemies.
No Daleks, Cybermen, River, Master/Missy

pixelburp

Probably one of the seasons from the Classic era: I'm fairly sure the Daleks or Cybermen have featured in every season since the show came back in 2005!

Angron

I'm kinda glad we got a break from the Daleks at least.

NyOmnishambles

Das Kitty wrote: »

That finale script wasn't great. I'd love to see Jodie stay and Chibnall leave. Or at least get other writers to do most of the scripts. She's been great when she's had well written dialogue to work with.

I went back and started watching some of the RTD era episodes. And even the worst ones make more narrative sense and have better dialogue than these have had.

I haven't really enjoyed this season. it has been fine but not great, fairly ropey

I really like Jodie and the character she is developing but honestly she is being given sh!t to work with

The writing has been no where near up to scratch with underdeveloped stories or down right dumb unfinished writing

Hopefully they can up the standard to what we have become accustomed over the last few seasons otherwise Jodie's run will be deemed a failure and I would hate to see that happen as she could be great

fritzelly

Agree with get rid of Chibnall and start writing stories for the Doctor - that is what the show is about after all! The stories are so character diluted it's hard to really get invested in any of them including the Doc or the story
There hasn't been any real fear this season, I wanna feel peril, danger, not knowing whats coming. These stories have all been pretty much paint by numbers.
The only highlight has been the witchfinders and the psychic card - everything else pretty much forgettable (especially the spiders)
And as for the final blah - the most non threatening adversary and so easily overcome

flazio

Recently rewatched Rosa lately. That for me was the highlight as a show of what Doctor Who can really do when done right.
Chibnall can stay as runner if he can try to get some of the Old guard back writing. The likes of Toby Whithouse (who I think would make a great executive producer, remember Being Human?) Paul Cornell, maybe Mark Gatiss if he can find his Unquiet dead form, heck try and convince RTD or even Moffat to pen just the one episode.
There is potential there. Just need someone to see it.

fritzelly

RTD had a love for Doctor Who going back years before it was even resurrected - he understood how it should be, Chibnall seems to be more about the drama and the sci-fi is a side issue.

flazio

fritzelly wrote: »

RTD had a love for Doctor Who going back years before it was even resurrected - he understood how it should be, Chibnall seems to be more about the drama and the sci-fi is a side issue.

All 3 of the showrunners had a great love of the show. Weekend evening in a prime time slot on a top free to air channel will never be about high concept science fiction, it wouldn't attract the ratings. Doctor Who evolves around current tastes.

fritzelly

flazio wrote: »

All 3 of the showrunners had a great love of the show. Weekend evening in a prime time slot on a top free to air channel will never be about high concept science fiction, it wouldn't attract the ratings. Doctor Who evolves around current tastes.

Yes true but RTD had a great love for the show.
But banal stories for a scifi show don't cut it. When it was cancelled it was up against the likes of Star Trek TNG. The stories were pretty much crap and special effects almost non existant (I'm coming from the Tom Baker era!)
It should be about high concept sci fi (sometimes), that is Doctor Who - imagine the impossible and run with it using some gobbledygook to explain it). Kids are not the same as 30 odd years ago. If we have to be told every miniscule point of the story then you have failed.
Enough preachy series out there already without DW getting in on the game.
(was gonna say something about the USA audience but I won't go there lest I sound insulting)

Das Kitty

flazio wrote: »

Recently rewatched Rosa lately. That for me was the highlight as a show of what Doctor Who can really do when done right.
Chibnall can stay as runner if he can try to get some of the Old guard back writing. The likes of Toby Whithouse (who I think would make a great executive producer, remember Being Human?) Paul Cornell, maybe Mark Gatiss if he can find his Unquiet dead form, heck try and convince RTD or even Moffat to pen just the one episode.
There is potential there. Just need someone to see it.

Don't even think we need the old guard. The episodes this series where Chibnall didn't have a writing credit were decent. But he had a credit on almost all of them. Personally I'd like to see how a writers' room would work with Who.

pixelburp

I think all showrunners had their strengths and failings; Moffat was the golden boy of Who writing before taking on the big job - and arguably lost much of that status at the helm. Probably too fond of puzzle box writing. RTD had a flair for dialogue and character, not to mention his own reputation preWho, but his worst scripts were the low points of the new series IMO. He loved going for melodrama and camp, which made the show a chore in his day.

As for Chibnell, I suppose the main complaint is that he doesn't seem to have a strong identity in his tenure yet, but would still argue that Season 11 couldn't take risks, such was the pressure and scrutiny Whittaker was under. The 10 episodes felt intentionally safe, all the tropes in one bag; wouldn't surprise if Season 12 brought back the arcs and 'bigger' elements.

fritzelly

New show runners generally try to make their mark on a serious but chibnall was a bit of a lead balloon. When the better episodes were written by others there is something wrong bar taking writing credits when none was due

Dante7

Did Bradley Walsh have an issue with his role and/or production. Looks like he is not returning, and anytime he has tweeted around the time Doctor Who was airing, he always tweeted about The Chase and not Who.

fritzelly

Dante7 wrote: »

Did Bradley Walsh have an issue with his role and/or production. Looks like he is not returning, and anytime he has tweeted around the time Doctor Who was airing, he always tweeted about The Chase and not Who.

Yeah reported not returning, obviously there will be an exit episode. Tbh won't miss him

pixelburp

fritzelly wrote: »

New show runners generally try to make their mark on a serious but chibnall was a bit of a lead balloon. When the better episodes were written by others there is something wrong bar taking writing credits when none was due

He definitely doesn't have the same obvious idiosyncrasy that RTD or Moffat had, but honestly both those writers' respective gimmicks got old, and maybe the smart change of pace is someone a bit more workaday like Chibnell. As underwhelming as the finale turned out to be, it was still refreshing to watch a stripped-down series. No gimmicks, no puzzle boxes or high melodrama.

Season 12 will be the tester: we had a female Dr. Who, the world didn't end and nobody got injured from all that broken ceiling glass, so presumably the runaway now exists to do something a bit more adventurous.