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Doctor Who Season 11 [** Spoilers **]

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    #152
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I suppose she meant the dumbing down of the doctor, rather than the dumbing down of the show.

    Fair enough, though I'd stick with my point; the show - and its lead character - fluctuates so wildly in approach, it's easy to see how folks stick to "their doctor" and don't warm to the new iteration.

    I can see both ends: Whittaker's Doctor so far is a lot less sure & authoritative than the previous version(s), but given how RTD and Moffat went to the well of "The Lonely God" so often, their Docs being borderline omnipotent, it's easy to see how this new one is much more underpowered and off-balance. The show needed to reign itself in again, both creatively and narratively IMO.

    It's a bit like when Tom Baker morphed into Peter Davison; that gear shift from the boisterous, outsized personality of Baker into the timid uncertainty of Davison's portrayal put a lot of people off at the time.


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    #153
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,545 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    How exactly is the Doctor dumbed down? I don't buy it.

    I remember being baffled in this forum during Smiths run as people were telling me RTD's run was far more clever than Moffat's. This in spite of the pretty obvious farty plasticy farty evidence to the contrary.

    People just seem to think the one they like is clever :D

    The Doctor comes across as stupified all the time, in cases like this before it was an act or it was a process, with this one so far it just seems like luck. I hope I am wrong and we see a glimpse of it being part of the process, I just haven't seen it yet. seems to have all the technical smarts of a Dr but the working out what is going on, doesn't seem to be there, the Dr now waits for someone to tell them. this has happened to all the Drs in the new Who but not every single episode.

    I am still enjoying this, and I think JW could be a great doctor but this is the only issue so far for me, other than that i am enjoying it, and the companions


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    #154
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    I can see where you're from in terms of there not being as much working out; there are a lot slapping the forehead moments for the Doctor this series. In terms of dumbing down though, the Moffat era got far too clever for its own good, series 6 was an absolute mess as was all the impossible girl stuff although I would say that the "solutions" so far this series have been far too simple and even questionable. But I don't think it's been any worse than some of the low points of the RTD stuff mentioned already.


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    #155
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Whoops; so whether by accident or on purpose - given who was the target of the episode! - if American Amazon users tried to watch Kerblam!, they instead got the next episode (The Witchfinders) days early. The bug is apparently already fixed, but I'm going to go ahead and guess it'll appear on the darker corners of the internet soon enough...


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    #156
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,257 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Whoops; so whether by accident or on purpose - given who was the target of the episode! - if American Amazon users tried to watch Kerblam!, they instead got the next episode (The Witchfinders) days early. The bug is apparently already fixed, but I'm going to go ahead and guess it'll appear on the darker corners of the internet soon enough...

    Once again, The Master is up to his old tricks!

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #157
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    pixelburp wrote: »
    I don't get the 'preachy' argument either; the show has been bullish about its views since the 1970s for goodness sake. Anyone thinking the show is preachy now should go watch "The Green Death" :D

    As for dumbing down, I guess your office mate is choosing to forget the Slitheen? Or indeed much of RTD's run, which, let's be honest, was extremely trashy when it wanted to be.

    I suppose that's the problem with a show with such longevity, and whose format is so flexible: there's literally a tone and approach to suit everyones tastes, but will invariably upset those who prefer Dr. Who 'should' be stick with one particular type.

    Naw, it’s a pretty bad season. No overarching arc, dull enemies, and a not very bright doctor.

    In preparation I watched a few classics in the new Who and nothing here compares. That said there are no absolute clunkers here either and the cinematography is very good. The India episode looked great.


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    #158
    The Master
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 14,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Master


    Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »
    Once again, The Master is up to his old tricks!

    And I would have gotten away with it too, If it wasn't you pesky meddling kids


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    #159
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,257 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I hope she's not a one season figure. Would be bad for the show. Yes this this is very bland and the music is sh1te, but they have introduced new species and characters.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #160
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    I think there's a deliberate back to basics attitude this season. Toned down opening sequence and music. Self contained episodes. More historical episodes. Local threats rather than the fate of the universe being constantly at stake. The doctor as a traveller in time and space rather than the super amazing last timelord.

    A bit of a relief really.


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    #161
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,332 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    A proper Doctor Who episode tonight (bar the little preachy bit)


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    #162
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    There is a definite pattern of people taking things into their own hands at the end, to the irritation of the Doctor, that I assume is going to pay off at the end of the season.


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    #163
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Brilliant this week. Loved it. Great script


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    #164
    dori_dormer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭dori_dormer


    Enjoyed this week!

    Thought it funny last week that the computer placed her exactly where she needed to be to help(maintenence) but switched herself!


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    #165
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Witchfinders was a really fantastic episode, up until the last 10 minutes. Once again it was a historical episode that had enough strengths in its setting and the characters within, without needing the inevitable alien threat. Season 12 should embrace the 'full historical', especially if they're visiting overtly problematic times.

    It was also the first episode that felt like it addressed the reality of the Doctor now being a woman, her authority (and physic paper) collapsing against the most powerful male presence in the area. And as King James, Alan Cumming was dementedly brilliant, chewing the scenery with just the right amount of gusto.

    Those last 10 minutes though. Oof. This was the first episode of this season where I felt the monsters were a bit phoned-in, and lacking any inspiration; defaulting to a 'rule the world' was overkill, & the FX of the lead monster kinda looked a bit goofy. RTD era goofy almost.


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    #166
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    The last ten minutes were tacked on alright. But the alternative would have been another episode where the humans were the real monsters, and that has been overplayed already this season.


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    #167
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I think it was both here: the monsters were the real monsters - but so too were the humans :) The witch-finding material - again like the Rosa Parks episode - did a good job showing the grim reality of those witchhunts within a teatime slot. It was dark stuff already, and like I said the Doctor's gender and super-science was only going to put her in trouble with the rampant paranoia and sexism of the time.

    Have wondered sometimes if Dr. Who scripts start with the monster idea, and works backwards; or indeed if the writers room has a rolling list of 'the mundane turned evil' concepts (like killer mud, statues, WiFi etc.), and gets wedged into broader scripts for the purposes of box ticking.


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    #168
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,332 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    pixelburp wrote: »
    It was also the first episode that felt like it addressed the reality of the Doctor now being a woman, her authority (and physic paper) collapsing against the most powerful male presence in the area. And as King James, Alan Cumming was dementedly brilliant, chewing the scenery with just the right amount of gusto.


    I did giggle at the psychic paper bit (thats when you know the writing is a little notch above average) and yeah AC was delectable in the part


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    #169
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,545 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    fritzelly wrote: »
    I did giggle at the psychic paper bit (thats when you know the writing is a little notch above average) and yeah AC was delectable in the part

    Was very clever, his mind was not going to accept it do it came up with a tolerant position.


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    #170
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Witchfinders was a really fantastic episode, up until the last 10 minutes. Once again it was a historical episode that had enough strengths in its setting and the characters within, without needing the inevitable alien threat. Season 12 should embrace the 'full historical', especially if they're visiting overtly problematic times.

    It was also the first episode that felt like it addressed the reality of the Doctor now being a woman, her authority (and physic paper) collapsing against the most powerful male presence in the area. And as King James, Alan Cumming was dementedly brilliant, chewing the scenery with just the right amount of gusto.

    Those last 10 minutes though. Oof. This was the first episode of this season where I felt the monsters were a bit phoned-in, and lacking any inspiration; defaulting to a 'rule the world' was overkill, & the FX of the lead monster kinda looked a bit goofy. RTD era goofy almost.

    They scared the crap out of my kids. Nothing else has scared them this series, not even the spiders.

    So on that level I think it worked.

    I loved the line about the pockets as well. :D


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    #171
    CastorTroy
    Registered Users Posts: 28,873 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Liked the episode. And seems to be going with the Predestination paradox route. So history always occurred the same way and they were always part of the event. With the way Graham or Ryan said they had never heard of the witch killings then King James saying he'll wipe it from the history books


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    #172
    Busi_Girl08
    Registered Users Posts: 17,825 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    Liked the episode. And seems to be going with the Predestination paradox route. So history always occurred the same way and they were always part of the event. With the way Graham or Ryan said they had never heard of the witch killings then King James saying he'll wipe it from the history books

    Which makes me wonder are we going to see that space racist (spacist?) time traveller from the Rosa Parks episode come back, I'm thinking a Time Meddler style story to round everything together for the finale?


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    #173
    corkie
    Registered Users Posts: 7,245 ✭✭✭corkie


    huge.102.510186.JPG

    The New year special is episode 11 according to iMDb, and part of this season and not part of next.

    The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You ~ EU Digital ID ~ Censorship: - broad laws that will probably effect Adult use of same.



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    #174
    CastorTroy
    Registered Users Posts: 28,873 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    This did not feel like a penultimate episode. If I didn't realise next week was the finale, this wouldn't have done anything to tell me.

    This episode was grand. The whole thing with the Upside Down between worlds seemed off. They didn't seem to sure how the rules should work there.


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    #175
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Is "Leaping the Frog" the new "Jumping the Shark"?

    (Well being throw by the frog ��)


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    #176
    jasonb
    Registered Users Posts: 3,314 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Actually really enjoyed that episode, very atmospheric, but the Frog at the end was very strange. Could see no reason why they went with a Frog (other than the Gran just liking Frogs). It added an unnecessary random weirdness to the end of a good episode. Some nice touches in it, liked Bradley's performance, and liked the subtle way Eric literally saw the writing on the wall and realised how much he, and his daugther, needed help.


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    #177
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    I enjoyed it too. I have no idea what that ribbons guy or the moths were up to though apart from adding a bit of peril (and totally freaking my 9 year old out when the moth came out of the eyesocket):pac:

    The Doctor sounded like the Doctor in this one (like last week), so I'm happy. Back to Chibnall next week though. woof.


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    #178
    jim-jam
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭jim-jam


    Really enjoyed the episode myself. Although once the the speakers were found I couldn't help but think of Father Dougal's BBC sound effects record. Was that Chris the unhappy sheep in the woods off to plot the rebellion?

    Bradley Walsh was excellent in this as well.


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    #179
    CastorTroy
    Registered Users Posts: 28,873 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    I will say, I know people are saying about this show trying too hard to be diverse/PC, but fair play to them casting the blind girl. I've seen deaf actors (Marlee Matlin and Shoshannah Stern as well as others) but can't remember seeing a blind actor before outside maybe a Ray Charles appearance as himself.


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    #180
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,332 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Was enjoying the episode til the frog! Was a bit like WTF - coulda chosen anything but that, a unicorn maybe?
    There is a worrying trend that each season (almost) is going down in the number of episodes
    Not getting the love for Bradley Walsh - he's an OK actor but these "moments" on Dr Who are nothing special (maybe I'm missing something). Actually BW is a put off for me seeing as he is on TV every single day, multiple times! Bad casting as far as I'm concerned


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    #181
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That was such a strange episode; I think I love it, but on the surface there were so many strange, competing elements. A surreal, mature tale of desperation of loss & mourning, mixed in with more boilerplate macabre elements of Who; the material set within the Anti-Zone at odds with the brutally simple and emotional stuff in both versions of the houses. And then there was that denouement, itself tying in with the broader themes - albeit featuring a frog.

    The technobabble was a definite narrative sore point: I'd have preferred the Doc to just work out the broad motivations of this solitract(sp) creature on her own, instead of the long info-dump we got by way of an explanation. Though a creature from before time NOT being evil made a nice change of pace.

    Oh and the script definitely let the Dad get away with pretty malevolent, manipulative behaviour against his own daughter. Other than that though, another really strong episode.

    As luck(!) would have it, I chose to watch the episode on the anniversary of my own mother's passing, with my Dad not that long gone too: wasn't expecting such a sad story, all the material around Graham & Hanne's father hitting me like a freight train; so understandably enough, that part of the story resonated with me more than flesh eating moths.

    Also, we finally got the 'grandad' pay off! And credit where it was due, it felt more earned than I feared it might. I thought Bradley Walsh's acting was stronger in other episodes tbh, but Ryan finally saying it felt right.


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