Running Earth Wires?

cheif kaiser

I need to earth 3 Light Switches and 1 Ceiling light which were not earthed by a dodgy Electrician.

I know how to chase wires and would like to do this part myself as know Electricians hate it

What I don't know is the easiest way and correct way to do this i.e. Do I need to run 1 earth wire to each item and the other end of each back to the fuse box?

Also, Will an electrician come in and connect these up, once I have the messy part done?

Thanks.

willbur

cheif kaiser wrote: »

I need to earth 3 Light Switches and 1 Ceiling light which were not earthed by a dodgy Electrician.

I know how to chase wires and would like to do this part myself as know Electricians hate it

What I don't know is the easiest way and correct way to do this i.e. Do I need to run 1 earth wire to each item and the other end of each back to the fuse box?

Also, Will an electrician come in and connect these up, once I have the messy part done?

Thanks.

I would double check to see if there is not an earth wire check the single brown cable it might have an earth beside it but coveredup by the grey pvc cover and sniped off , if not then option 1 take floor boards up directly above the light switches replace the brown switch wire from the switch to the light by attaching brown with the earth wire built in to the existing brown switch using this as the pull wire up to the light in the ceiling,if you can't take floor boards up because they are new or it's a finished floor , then make a 6 inch square hole in the ceiling plaster board cut neatly , to get access to the tube that comes down to the switch , all so if there is a light fitting that has an earth you. Can link to that instead of going to the main switch board assuming it is earthed at the board
,If possible take photo of inside the switch but turn off the lighting circuit at the board first , and take a photo of the light fitting showing the cables attached , we might see something to help you out

cheif kaiser

willbur wrote: »

I would double check to see if there is not an earth wire check the single brown cable it might have an earth beside it but coveredup by the grey pvc cover and sniped off , if not then option 1 take floor boards up directly above the light switches replace the brown switch wire from the switch to the light by attaching brown with the earth wire built in to the existing brown switch using this as the pull wire up to the light in the ceiling,if you can't take floor boards up because they are new or it's a finished floor , then make a 6 inch square hole in the ceiling plaster board cut neatly , to get access to the tube that comes down to the switch , all so if there is a light fitting that has an earth you. Can link to that instead of going to the main switch board assuming it is earthed at the board
,If possible take photo of inside the switch but turn off the lighting circuit at the board first , and take a photo of the light fitting showing the cables attached , we might see something to help you out

Old house, old wires inside light switches consisting of only live and neutral. Plastic fitting were then replaced with Metal, so they deffinitly need to be eathed.

Not an option to pull up floor boards. I will have to run along the sitting room ceiling but that's not an issue as I know how to do this the least damaging way.

What I really need to know is the size of earth I should use and if each fitting needs 1 dedicted wire run from the fuse board to the fitting?

2011

It would be best to get the entire installation checked over by an experienced electrician, from your description it may well need a rewire. If a rewire is unaffordable you could get the light switches and lights changed for plastic ones.

It is probable that there are far more serious wiring issues within the installation.

cheif kaiser

2011 wrote: »

It would be best to get the entire installation checked over by an experienced electrician, from your description it may well need a rewire. If a rewire is unaffordable you could get the light switches and lights changed for plastic ones.

It is probable that there are far more serious wiring issues within the installation.

Wiring has been checked, there is no issue with the wiring other than these 3 fittings not having any earths.

I don't want to change to plastic fittings as they would be in a brand new kitchen which has all metal fitting and 2 plastic light switches would looks awful. I simply want to earth the fittings to make them safe.

A qualified Electrician will not run the earths the way I want to run them and will either A) not take on the job at all or insist on a 3 core wire been run to all 3 fittings. This will result in him wanting to pull up new hardwood flloors upstairs which is not happening or smashing through the walls and ceilings, drilling holes through rafters and making a massive mess which is not happening either.

It was also a qualified electrician that created this mess in the first place and at this stage I am sick to the back teeth of Cowboys. I can't get anything done without it being bollocked up.

I want to run the wires myself for this very reason.

2011

cheif kaiser wrote: »

Wiring has been checked, there is no issue with the wiring other than these 3 fittings not having any earths.

If correct, that is good.
However it is highly unlikely that this is the only issue was wiring this correctly would have taken minimal extra effort. I think you need to get a second opinion on this.

I don't want to change to plastic fittings as they would be in a brand new kitchen which has all metal fitting and 2 plastic light switches would looks awful. I simply want to earth the fittings to make them safe.

Ok.

A qualified Electrician will not run the earths the way I want to run them and will either A) not take on the job at all

A common complaint, they are all busy.
Also many want them to work for minimum wage which they are not prepared to do.
Where are you based? Someone here may be interested (not me, I don't do this work).

insist on a 3 core wire been run to all 3 fittings. This will result in him wanting to pull up new hardwood flloors upstairs which is not happening or smashing through the walls and ceilings, drilling holes through rafters and making a massive mess which is not happening either.

Well either:
A) They are indeed cowboys
They have a valid reason for doing this that as someone that is not an electrician can not appreciate (no offense intended).

It was also a qualified electrician that created this mess in the first place and at this stage I am sick to the back teeth of Cowboys.

I appreciate that you may have employed a cowboy, but not every single electrician is a cowboy.

You just need to find a good electrician and be prepared to pay the cost of employing a professional. Please consider mains voltage is potentially lethal voltage. "DIY experts" trying to save a few bob are responsible for taking risks that without even realising it. Apart from the risk of a fatality or serious injury there is also the financial cost of loosing a home, the largest asset for many of us. Don't falll into the trap of being penny wise and pound stupid!

What I really need to know is the size of earth I should use

Generally a 1.5 mm sq.

and if each fitting needs 1 dedicted wire run from the fuse board to the fitting?

That would do it, just don't open the distribution board (fuse board). Having to ask question like that makes it clear that working in the board is beyond your ability, apart from legalities and safety aspects of doing this.

listermint

From what im reading though you want to run earth through conduit up around door frames and walls.

No offense but switching from metal to plastic would be far less crap looking that running contuit.

Conduit looks like amateur hour

2011

:D:D:)

cheif kaiser

2011 wrote: »

If correct, that is good.
However it is highly unlikely that this is the only issue was wiring this correctly would have taken minimal extra effort. I think you need to get a second opinion on this.

Was actually inspected by an inspector from CRU as a result of Cowboy electrician installing metal fittings without earth wires, which is highly illegal.

I have no intention of connecting up anything mself, just want to do the messy part myself so I can have full control of how it is done and where I can affort to take my time.

2011

cheif kaiser wrote: »

Was actually inspected by an inspector from CRU as a result of Cowboy electrician installing metal fittings without earth wires, which is highly illegal.

I have no intention of connecting up anything mself, just want to do the messy part myself so I can have full control of how it is done and where I can affort to take my time.

Fair enough.

Who are CRU?
Do you mean CER?

cheif kaiser

listermint wrote: »

From what im reading though you want to run earth through conduit up around door frames and walls.

No offense but switching from metal to plastic would be far less crap looking that running contuit.

Conduit looks like amateur hour

Not at all! I am a prefectionist, you wont even know I was there!

An electrician friend of mine showed me years ago how to chase wires by drilling a hole either side of the rafters and removing the plaster from between these 2 holes. You then chase the wires in and around the rafters and then plaster over it.

Any chasing down walls is an easy removal of a slice of plasterboard, insert wire and plaster over.

Risteard81

2011 wrote:

Generally a 1.5 mm sq.

Actually a protective conductor not mechanically protected must be a minimum of 4mm^2, or 2.5mm^2 if mechanically protected. A 1.5mm^2 single could not be used.

cheif kaiser

2011 wrote: »

Fair enough.

Who are CRU?
Do you mean CER?

Yes, they changed their name and insisted I only refer to them as CRU :rolleyes:

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

cheif kaiser wrote: »

Was actually inspected by an inspector from CRU as a result of Cowboy electrician installing metal fittings without earth wires, which is highly illegal.

I have no intention of connecting up anything mself, just want to do the messy part myself so I can have full control of how it is done and where I can affort to take my time.

Fair enough.

Who are CRU?
Do you mean CER?

The CER were renamed the CRU in the past year.

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

The CER were renamed the CRU in the past year.

Everyday is a school day

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

Risteard81 wrote: »

The CER were renamed the CRU in the past year.

Everyday is a school day

Indeed! They are now called the Commission for the Regulation of Utilities (CRU).

keithdub

Go to your local electrical hole salers and have a look at the range they have plastic fittings aren't just white anymore

Risteard81

keithdub wrote: »

Go to your local electrical hole salers and have a look at the range they have plastic fittings aren't just white anymore

How big are the holes that they sell? ;-)

cheif kaiser

keithdub wrote: »

Go to your local electrical hole salers and have a look at the range they have plastic fittings aren't just white anymore

I have looked at loads of fittings and most are metal sprayed a colour. It is very hard to purchase completely plastic fittings. I found some on the internet and would you believe, they need to be earthed because the screws are metal and the earth connection is metal!

Effects

Risteard81 wrote: »

Actually a protective conductor not mechanically protected must be a minimum of 4mm^2, or 2.5mm^2 if mechanically protected. A 1.5mm^2 single could not be used.

So if it's on a lighting circuit, with mechanical protection such as a conduit, it has to be 2.5?

2011

Effects wrote: »

So if it's on a lighting circuit, with mechanical protection such as a conduit, it has to be 2.5?

No, he means without.

cheif kaiser

2011 wrote: »

No, he means without.

So do I need a 1.5 or a 2.5!?!?

Effects

2011 wrote: »

No, he means without.

Ok, so it's fine to run a single 1.5 earth, as long as it's in mech protection.
I've been out of the game a while so not as up to speed with regs as I used to be.

2011

cheif kaiser wrote: »

So do I need a 1.5 or a 2.5!?!?

If it has mechanical protection it a 1.5 is fine.

cheif kaiser

2011 wrote: »

If it has mechanical protection it a 1.5 is fine.

Won't have mechanical protection. I planned to just run the wire straight through with no conduit. If it was a live wire I would make sure it was protected but don't see it necessarily for an earth?

Risteard81

Effects wrote: »

Risteard81 wrote: »

Actually a protective conductor not mechanically protected must be a minimum of 4mm^2, or 2.5mm^2 if mechanically protected. A 1.5mm^2 single could not be used.

So if it's on a lighting circuit, with mechanical protection such as a conduit, it has to be 2.5?

No, not within containment e.g. singles. If it's a single green/yellow protective conductor run separately though it needs to be a minimum of 4mm^2 when not mechanically protected. Apologies if my post was confusing. (I admit it was badly written.)

cheif kaiser

Risteard81 wrote: »

it needs to be a minimum of 4mm^2

:eek: that's huge! What size is a 3 core cable?

hufpc8w3adnk65

cheif kaiser wrote: »

Not at all! I am a prefectionist, you wont even know I was there!

An electrician friend of mine showed me years ago how to chase wires by drilling a hole either side of the rafters and removing the plaster from between these 2 holes. You then chase the wires in and around the rafters and then plaster over it.

Any chasing down walls is an easy removal of a slice of plasterboard, insert wire and plaster over.

Plastering directly on top of cables is a no no also

Risteard81

cheif kaiser wrote: »

Risteard81 wrote: »

it needs to be a minimum of 4mm^2

:eek: that's huge! What size is a 3 core cable?

A multicore cable is mechanically protected by virtue of the fact that it has a sheath - it is an insulated and sheathed cable.

cheif kaiser

MrMac84 wrote: »

Plastering directly on top of cables is a no no also

I have checked this out and from what I have read on multiple forums, there is absolutely no reason why one can't plaster directly on top of wires. Conduit would offer no protection against someone drilling into the wires, etc and is mainly there as a means to rewire easily. Modern plaster has no corrosive effect on wires either.

Is this an actual rule or just your opinion?

cheif kaiser

Risteard81 wrote: »

Actually a protective conductor not mechanically protected must be a minimum of 4mm^2, or 2.5mm^2 if mechanically protected. A 1.5mm^2 single could not be used.

I have also looked this up and as far as I can see, 4mm^2 is only required when bonding, which as far as I am aware is slightly different to what I am intending on doing?

544.2.2 Supplementary bonding conductors shall consist of insulated
copper! conductors with a cross-sectional area in accordance
with 544.2.3 or 544.2.4, but not less than 2.5mm2 where
mechanical protection is provided, or 4mm2 where mechanical protection is not provided.