Murphy apologises to a female put into a hotel

zell12

Minister for Housing apologises to woman and child who spent (only) three weeks in a hotel.
Further, he insinuates that a homeless hub is better and promised her "a home soon"

Well. Where does one start..

Gatling

Oh dear

gozunda

Would the term 'homeless accommodation' be an oxymoron?

As in the example 'Jimmy is living in homeless accommodation' ....

I sometimes feel like it's a bad case of socio-political newspeak where words are slowly being replaced by an ever reimagined vocabulary ...

Riskymove

gozunda wrote: »

As in the example 'Jimmy is living in homeless accommodation' ....

...

who uses that?

the usual term is "Emergency accommodation"

odyssey06

He'll be gone as minister before she gets a home.

sReq | uTeK

Seriously, we do not have a homeless epidemic, its beyond ridiculous at this stage. We have people in temporary accommodation, mainly through no fault of their own, but they are not on the bloody streets.

gozunda

Riskymove wrote: »

who uses that?
the usual term is "Emergency accommodation"

Heard it on the radio during the week and used to describe an apartment. The description of same wasn't emergency either

A quick Google brings up several examples including a job descriptor.

Lux23

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Seriously, we do not have a homeless epidemic, its beyond ridiculous at this stage. We have people in temporary accommodation, mainly through no fault of their own, but they are not on the bloody streets.

I think you're confusing rough sleeping with homelessness. The clue is in the word - homelessness - as in you don't have an home. It's not shelterlessness.

And I would think we do have a serious problem which is worsening month-by-month - there was 9,891 registered as homeless in August. It was less than 3,000 four years ago.

zell12

zell12 wrote: »

Minister for Housing apologises to woman and child who spent (only) three weeks in a hotel.
Further, he insinuates that a homeless hub is better and promised her "a home soon"

Well. Where does one start..

He’s right. She WILL soon have a home. Thousands are being moved from hubs, hotels etc every year into more permanent homes. Unfortunately their places in the hubs are soon taken by others.

Wheeliebin30

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He’s right. She WILL soon have a home. Thousands are being moved from hubs, hotels etc every year into more permanent homes. Unfortunately their places in the hubs are soon taken by others.

Quick way to get a house.

Why bother saving and working for years??

Wheeliebin30

Lux23 wrote: »

I think you're confusing rough sleeping with homelessness. The clue is in the word - homelessness - as in you don't have an home. It's not shelterlessness.

And I would think we do have a serious problem which is worsening month-by-month - there was 9,891 registered as homeless in August. It was less than 3,000 four years ago.

Wow, so the 500,000 people renting are homeless!!

mickdw

Lux23 wrote: »

I think you're confusing rough sleeping with homelessness. The clue is in the word - homelessness - as in you don't have an home. It's not shelterlessness.

And I would think we do have a serious problem which is worsening month-by-month - there was 9,891 registered as homeless in August. It was less than 3,000 four years ago.

Come on. Homeless traditionally referred to those living on the street. Including all these other groups of people in homeless figures gives an unfair reflection of the actual situation.
Seeing as you are clear re the difference between homelessness and shelterlessness, perhaps homelessness should be dropped from all commentary because really what is of concern is shelterless people.
I would far prefer to see figures for those on the street, and separately figures for those in warm temporary accommodation waiting to be permanently housed.
Further broken down it would be very interesting to see figures re numbers in temporary accommodation who have refused housing and further those who have refused more than one offer of housing.
Don't get me started on those who refuse everything bar a council property cause there is a chance a landlord might ask them to move out sometime in the future - something working people have to deal with everyday of the week.
Forever home - if that's what someone wants, let them buy it.

Of course the minister could never say anything like this as he would be hounded out of office but it's the reality.

maninasia

Riding roughshod over taxpayers and working renters.


Joke

iamwhoiam

The homeless crises would be far greater if statistics were known about adults back living with parents
Everyone I know had or have had adult children , some with families back living with them for up to two years to try save the deposit on a home .
Right now there are thousands of over 30's back living in rooms in parents homes

BarryD2

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The homeless crises would be far greater if statistics were known about adults back living with parents
Everyone I know had or have had adult children , some with families back living with them for up to two years to try save the deposit on a home .
Right now there are thousands of over 30's back living in rooms in parents homes

Just wondering what's new about that? Weren't their often multi generational families living in one home in Ireland? When did this idea arise that 'everyone' must have one and preferably more houses?

Don't get me wrong, I think housing should be more available and affordable but people should also ne strongly encouraged to get up off their arses and help themselves.

iamwhoiam

BarryD2 wrote: »

Just wondering what's new about that? Weren't their often multi generational families living in one home in Ireland? When did this idea arise that 'everyone' must have one and preferably more houses?

Don't get me wrong, I think housing should be more available and affordable but people should also ne strongly encouraged to get up off their arses and help themselves.

I think personally from my own circle the difference is these are adults who had left home and were renting . More and more are moving back in with parents as they simply cannot afford the rent
The multi generational idea is lovely in a large country estate , less so in a small three bed semi in Crumlin

engiweirdo

Mod Edit

Attack the post, not the poster.
Next one is a ban.

Graces7

Lux23 wrote: »

I think you're confusing rough sleeping with homelessness. The clue is in the word - homelessness - as in you don't have an home. It's not shelterlessness.

And I would think we do have a serious problem which is worsening month-by-month - there was 9,891 registered as homeless in August. It was less than 3,000 four years ago.

Then I am homeless. living in rented accommodation? This is not my home Given the state of rentals here, I could be thrown out for many reasons. Not a home in your esoteric meaning..
Seriously inte
rnationally the term "homeless" means without a roof over your head. ie yes sleeping rough.

Your figures will be skewed by the less accurate definition? You need also to find out if they incl ude as I seem to remember they do, those couch surfing and living with family?

sReq | uTeK

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Wow, so the 500,000 people renting are homeless!!

Thanks, was just about to post this.

Manchester united manager Jose Mourinho has been staying in a hotel for the last year. Hope he he gets handed a house by the english government. I’m surprised he’s not screaming from the rooftops at the deplorable situation he finds himself in.

BarryD2

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I think personally from my own circle the difference is these are adults who had left home and were renting . More and more are moving back in with parents as they simply cannot afford the rent
The multi generational idea is lovely in a large country estate , less so in a small three bed semi in Crumlin

I know what you mean and agree it's a bit different when adult children have to move back. Though that happened to in previous generations when people emigrated but returned for whatever reason.

It's also to do with peoples expectations though. House we first bought was originally a council built house, tiny with 2 small bedrooms and very basic. Was surprised when I heard it'd housed a family with 7 or 8 kids. People managed, if that was now they'd be looking for a substantial 4 or 5 bed property and if it was a 'modern family', likely separate gaffs for the fathers so the kids could visit etc.

iamwhoiam

BarryD2 wrote: »

I know what you mean and agree it's a bit different when adult children have to move back. Though that happened to in previous generations when people emigrated but returned for whatever reason.

It's also to do with peoples expectations though. House we first bought was originally a council built house, tiny with 2 small bedrooms and very basic. Was surprised when I heard it'd housed a family with 7 or 8 kids. People managed, if that was now they'd be looking for a substantial 4 or 5 bed property and if it was a 'modern family', likely separate gaffs for the fathers so the kids could visit etc.

Thanks for the reply I agree with most of your post . Though I don't think we should be aspiring to just " managing "
Then before your and my time people also " managed " in tenements in the city
This country if run properly and its citizens did not take the piss should be able to house those who need it in decent acceptable homes
But the system is so that it is openly and proudly being abused . Because it is allowed to be abused those who genuinely need the help are not getting it
Its a system failure and nobody is even trying to stop it

listermint

I know lets all attack each other on the definition of homeless whilst we have a housing crisis in the county. Average rents now over 1600 euro per month and a real serious problem with this impacting our growth and the larger economy.

We should just attack each other over that rather than getting on to our elected representatives to do something about it.

L1011

zell12 wrote: »

Further, he insinuates that a homeless hub is better

I can't think of any circumstance where you'd consider a hotel room better than the hub accommodation. The hub accommodation includes full kitchen facilities, childrens play areas, 24h access (some of the extremely low end hotels and many B&Bs being used have curfews) and so on.

There were some people being put in the Gresham as emergency accommodation but even then they're stuck with nowhere to cook, no outdoor areas and so on.

Naos

listermint wrote: »

I know lets all attack each other on the definition of homeless whilst we have a housing crisis in the county. Average rents now over 1600 euro per month and a real serious problem with this impacting our growth and the larger economy.

We should just attack each other over that rather than getting on to our elected representatives to do something about it.

I am not a landlord and am playing devils advocate here, but what if I worked really hard all my life, saving & not overspending so that I could afford to buy a small apartment to rent out.

I bought it and paid tax on it. I rent it out and I pay tax on that. Why should I not be allowed to charge what I want?

Should we put the products/services of all businesses?

Beechwoodspark

Murphy is absolutely useless. He’s just waiting to switch to a cushy ministry and play the statesman

Busterie

A quick way of getting more properties in to the rental market and out of Air BnB market is to allow landlords deduct mortgage payments off their income tax. Renting out property must be the only business where you are not allowed deduct your expenses off your tax.
Corporate landlords get tax breaks.
Why not individuals.
This could be changed in the budget

bodyguard1

zell12 wrote: »

Minister for Housing apologises to woman and child who spent (only) three weeks in a hotel.
Further, he insinuates that a homeless hub is better and promised her "a home soon"

Well. Where does one start..

I would like to hear more about her circumstances Mr Murphy claims she was ashamed to find herself in the situation of being homeless but was brave, bright and hopeful for the future.........then go out and get a job like the rest of us to support our family. I am sick of hearing about people with bleedin heart stories who feel that the World owes them something and that they are entitled to be housed by the State at the Taxpayers expense. I go out to work at 5.30am every day and work at a job that doesn't pay well and I am not mad about doing but hey I have a mortgage to pay and a wife and two kids to support and put through college and my wife does the same unfortunately we are not hopeful for the future as all of our take home pay goes on keeping a roof over our heads, paying or bills and taxes and putting food on the table and giving our kids a good education so that maybe they can make a better life for themselves in the future but cest la vie :mad:

Amirani

Busterie wrote: »

A quick way of getting more properties in to the rental market and out of Air BnB market is to allow landlords deduct mortgage payments off their income tax. Renting out property must be the only business where you are not allowed deduct your expenses off your tax.
Corporate landlords get tax breaks.
Why not individuals.
This could be changed in the budget

Set up a "business" to run your letting then and you'll be able to make those deductions. You're still going to have to pay income tax on whatever you decide to pay yourself in the end, same as any other business, including corporate landlords.

listermint

Naos wrote: »

I am not a landlord and am playing devils advocate here, but what if I worked really hard all my life, saving & not overspending so that I could afford to buy a small apartment to rent out.

I bought it and paid tax on it. I rent it out and I pay tax on that. Why should I not be allowed to charge what I want?

Should we put the products/services of all businesses?

Well for starters there are many investments you can make. Property only became hot since the 90s to get into and look what it's done the world over , significant imbalance in the ability of the average person to obtain a home under their own steam.

I think residential property ownership should not be an attractive investment for investors. And I don't see anything wrong with that viewpoint. There is no right to own property to rent to people so governments shouldn't make it easy or attractive. They have been doing both all over the place. Terrible policy.

NasserShammaz

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Wow, so the 500,000 people renting are homeless!!

Just one step away if this gobsh*t brings in a load of new rules that are supposed to help, Landlords will all be Air BnB ing it.

listermint

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Just one step away if this gobsh*t brings in a load of new rules that are supposed to help, Landlords will all be Air BnB ing it.

Theyre not already.? There are 4 times as many Airbnb listings as rental listings. Over 10,000 at last count in Dublin alone. Figures probably higher

NasserShammaz

listermint wrote: »

Theyre not already.? There are 4 times as many Airbnb listings as rental listings. Over 10,000 at last count in Dublin alone. Figures probably higher

Maybe those renting could be considered Houseless, but they probably wouldn't have time to launch a full media campaign on facebook etc etc and attend protests and all that. Better just keep goin to work bringing up the kids to be the best they can and try make a positive contribution to society and wait for ars*holes like murphy/Anti Accountability Alliance/Sinn Blame to house all the "Homeless":rolleyes:

listermint

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Maybe those renting could be considered Houseless, but they probably wouldn't have time to launch a full media campaign on facebook etc etc and attend protests and all that. Better just keep goin to work bringing up the kids to be the best they can and try make a positive contribution to society and wait for ars*holes like murphy/Anti Accountability Alliance/Sinn Blame to house all the "Homeless":rolleyes:

Sorry I don't understand your response to what I posted.

tabby aspreme

listermint wrote: »

Theyre not already.? There are 4 times as many Airbnb listings as rental listings. Over 10,000 at last count in Dublin alone. Figures probably higher

Airbnb premises are listed continuously, as it's a short term rental, probably 90% listed at any one time, probably less than5% of regular rentals listed at any one time

NasserShammaz

NasserShammaz wrote: »

Maybe those renting could be considered Houseless, but they probably wouldn't have time to launch a full media campaign on facebook etc etc and attend protests and all that. Better just keep goin to work bringing up the kids to be the best they can and try make a positive contribution to society and wait for ars*holes like murphy/Anti Accountability Alliance/Sinn Blame to house all the "Homeless":rolleyes:

sorry should have said I agree and it will only increase.

the rest was a separate point but relevant if those renting would then go from houseless to homeless

maninasia

Such a handy system, pop out a sprog or two, turn the waterworks for TV, hide the father's, free house in year or so worth 100000s of Euros.


Where's the bloody father why isn't he paying for the kids upkeep and accommodation too ?

We don't even know how long these people have been in Ireland .

Minister in 'charge' (really just keeping the seat warm ) does a show and dance.

Taxpayers getting up busting their arses for a days pay the have to hand over a big wedge of tax for these wasters.

BarryD2

listermint wrote: »

I think residential property ownership should not be an attractive investment for investors. And I don't see anything wrong with that viewpoint. There is no right to own property to rent to people so governments shouldn't make it easy or attractive. They have been doing both all over the place. Terrible policy.

Couldn't agree more. The whole 'buy to let' type of personal investment should be completely discouraged. When I hear 'landlords' complaining that rental income won't meet their mortgage repayments on the rentals, my ire rises. They basically want to acquire an asset of some value and get someone else to pay for it. If these people were driven from the market, then at very least more properties would be available for people who wish to buy and live in them. How often did we hear these people moan after the last crash, that their 'pensions' were gone and begging for debt forgiveness?

We need a rental market but if people want to run rental property businesses, well let them do it full time - and buy their properties from the current assets and income for their business.

Kivaro

bodyguard1 wrote: »

I would like to hear more about her circumstances Mr Murphy claims she was ashamed to find herself in the situation of being homeless but was brave, bright and hopeful for the future.........then go out and get a job like the rest of us to support our family. I am sick of hearing about people with bleedin heart stories who feel that the World owes them something and that they are entitled to be housed by the State at the Taxpayers expense. I go out to work at 5.30am every day and work at a job that doesn't pay well and I am not mad about doing but hey I have a mortgage to pay and a wife and two kids to support and put through college and my wife does the same unfortunately we are not hopeful for the future as all of our take home pay goes on keeping a roof over our heads, paying or bills and taxes and putting food on the table and giving our kids a good education so that maybe they can make a better life for themselves in the future but cest la vie :mad:

I'd say that your story represents the majority in Ireland.
However, your story does not line up with the slant that the liberal media is spinning. If we were to believe the likes of RTE, the homeless situation is akin to the 1847 famine.

BBFAN

I simply don't understand why people keep trying to argue over the definition of homeless and whether or not there's a crisis.

Fact is there's a housing problem if that sound better, doesn't really matter what it's called.

Another fact is that solving it is in the interest of the majority of people in this country.

The current high rents are simply because there are so many people competing for the same property. Sort out the social housing situation and these people aren't taking up private rentals, rent prices will fall. Private renters benefit, parents of adults who can't move out benefit, people on the housing list benefit. It's hard to see who doesn't benefit except landlords maybe.

Why do Irish people not see the benefits of coming together to solve a problem rather than judging and calling people names?

How does labelling people solve any problems?

facehugger99

I think there is a real forever-homeless crisis in the Country.

seamus

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Quick way to get a house.

Why bother saving and working for years??

So why haven't you availed of this get-a-house-quick scheme if it's so easy?

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Wow, so the 500,000 people renting are homeless!!

A house and a home are not the same thing.

Graces7 wrote: »

Seriously internationally the term "homeless" means without a roof over your head. ie yes sleeping rough.

This is just completely incorrect. There is no international agreement or consistency on what "homeless" means. In the US and in poor countries, "homeless" means living in the street.
Throughout most of Europe, homeless refers to anyone without a permanent residence.

We're beyond a point where it's acceptable to say that so long as the streets are clear, then job done. This family of five are all living in a shoddy hotel room, hooray!

Eh, no. Yes, people used to live in tenements. And no, that wasn't OK. "People managed". That's a low bar for a modern society. Shouldn't we be aiming to ensure that everyone has a basic standard of living?

Lux23

Graces7 wrote: »

Then I am homeless. living in rented accommodation? This is not my home Given the state of rentals here, I could be thrown out for many reasons. Not a home in your esoteric meaning..
Seriously inte
rnationally the term "homeless" means without a roof over your head. ie yes sleeping rough.

Your figures will be skewed by the less accurate definition? You need also to find out if they incl ude as I seem to remember they do, those couch surfing and living with family?

If you're living with family, you can't register as homeless.
If you're renting a place, then you can't register as homeless either.

And you're right our numbers are not accurate - they don't represent the true extent of our housing crisis. It is far worse than the 10,000 living in emergency accommodation and the hundreds of rough sleepers on the streets of our towns and cities every night.

Where has this crisis actually started? Like, where did it come from?


From what I can see, all those protesting, seem to be the layabout/hand-out type of person? These are the kind that have a child or two and get offered a council house in their area.

Is it just that Jacinta and her two fatherless children are not being offered houses they'd like anymore? Is that legitimately the reason behind this crisis?

I haven't heard anyone complaining about the lack of housing available to purchase privately, all I keep hearing is the Govt/Councils should be buying houses?

Is this entire saga actually just based around council tenants not getting offered houses? Or is that just the way it's being portrayed on boards?


As an aside, I know a woman, two kids (no father on the scene), and her rent is €25 per week. €100 per month. I'm living in an (arguably worse, more anti-social) estate next door to her, and I'm paying €670 per month on a mortgage (and that's after the Council gave me a discount on the house). Council will never entertain me again, but she recently had a brand new front door installed due to the previous one being draughty.


There are many times I wonder what I was thinking when I decided to buy this house, instead of buying a different house elsewhere, and then sticking my name down on the rent here and inheriting this from the Council after my Dad dies. Then I could rent it out for multiples of what I'm paying the Council, safe in the knowledge they haven't the manpower or neck to check on, or evict tenants.

Some of us (like me) are just born too honest, and stupid.

BBFAN

Deleted User wrote: »

Where has this crisis actually started? Like, where did it come from?


From what I can see, all those protesting, seem to be the layabout/hand-out type of person? These are the kind that have a child or two and get offered a council house in their area.

Is it just that Jacinta and her two fatherless children are not being offered houses they'd like anymore? Is that legitimately the reason behind this crisis?

I haven't heard anyone complaining about the lack of housing available to purchase privately, all I keep hearing is the Govt/Councils should be buying houses?

Is this entire saga actually just based around council tenants not getting offered houses? Or is that just the way it's being portrayed on boards?


As an aside, I know a woman, two kids (no father on the scene), and her rent is €25 per week. €100 per month. I'm living in an (arguably worse, more anti-social) estate next door to her, and I'm paying €670 per month on a mortgage (and that's after the Council gave me a discount on the house). Council will never entertain me again, but she recently had a brand new front door installed due to the previous one being draughty.


There are many times I wonder what I was thinking when I decided to buy this house, instead of buying a different house elsewhere, and then sticking my name down on the rent here and inheriting this from the Council after my Dad dies. Then I could rent it out for multiples of what I'm paying the Council, safe in the knowledge they haven't the manpower or neck to check on, or evict tenants.

Some of us (like me) are just born too honest, and stupid.

You obviously don't read newspapers, watch the news or step out of Louth because there's a huge problem in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick with buying or renting houses.

It's funny how when it doesn't have any effect on someone's life they can simply ignore the fact that a problem exists.

BBFAN

BBFAN wrote: »

You obviously don't read newspapers, watch the news or step out of Louth because there's a huge problem in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick with buying or renting houses.

It's funny how when it doesn't have any effect on someone's life they can simply ignore the fact that a problem exists.

I don't know what any of that means in relation to my post at all..?

BBFAN

Deleted User wrote:

I don't know what any of that means in relation to my post at all..?

You say you haven't heard anyone complain about the lack of housing to buy privately??

BBFAN

BBFAN wrote: »

You say you haven't heard anyone complain about the lack of housing to buy privately??

I asked is the legitimate issue behind the crisis, that Council houses are not readily available, or is this simply a skewered portrayal of the issue being presented on Boards.

I am only hearing, constantly, that the local Councils need to buy more houses/land. There doesn't seem to be an equal (or even noticeable) crisis being presented for those that are looking to buy privately.

My post is more to find out if my general understanding of the issue is accurate. If so, I find it irritating as many people, who work hard and have got the money for a deposit, are actually unable to purchase houses that are being built, if they're simply being built for Council tenants.



To add to that, Louth does indeed have it's own local housing crisis, but, locally, it does only affect council tenants. There are a fair few (arguably overpriced) properties for sale. But there is also a lack of council housing to house council tenants. So private buyers are alright, but those relying on subsidised housing are down on their luck at the moment.

There is, however, an estate being built right beside the large riverside park in the town. A literal 5 minute walk to the bus station (handy for Dublin Commutes), and also 5 minutes strolling to the town centre. Fantastic views of the river boyne, a large local park with playground and skate park less than 3 minutes walk away, and Fire and Garda stations both within a 5 minute walk. Also being built along one of the towns most popular walking trails.

These houses are council houses, so no matter how much you've saved up, as a private buyer, you will never get into one.

This is the kind of thing that irks me. And I find it frustrating in the extreme. However, although this is the issue locally, I was posting here to see if this is also the national issue, or if the national issue has more balance to it.

Klonker

Don't know what he's apologising for. She should be thanking the government and tax payers of this country for putting a roof over her head when she doesn't have the means to do herself.

Alrigghtythen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I asked is the legitimate issue behind the crisis, that Council houses are not readily available, or is this simply a skewered portrayal of the issue being presented on Boards.

I am only hearing, constantly, that the local Councils need to buy more houses/land. There doesn't seem to be an equal (or even noticeable) crisis being presented for those that are looking to buy privately.

My post is more to find out if my general understanding of the issue is accurate. If so, I find it irritating as many people, who work hard and have got the money for a deposit, are actually unable to purchase houses that are being built, if they're simply being built for Council tenants.



To add to that, Louth does indeed have it's own local housing crisis, but, locally, it does only affect council tenants. There are a fair few (arguably overpriced) properties for sale. But there is also a lack of council housing to house council tenants. So private buyers are alright, but those relying on subsidised housing are down on their luck at the moment.

There is, however, an estate being built right beside the large riverside park in the town. A literal 5 minute walk to the bus station (handy for Dublin Commutes), and also 5 minutes strolling to the town centre. Fantastic views of the river boyne, a large local park with playground and skate park less than 3 minutes walk away, and Fire and Garda stations both within a 5 minute walk. Also being built along one of the towns most popular walking trails.

These houses are council houses, so no matter how much you've saved up, as a private buyer, you will never get into one.

This is the kind of thing that irks me. And I find it frustrating in the extreme. However, although this is the issue locally, I was posting here to see if this is also the national issue, or if the national issue has more balance to it.

2000 new houses in drogheda are planned. It might help with supply issues when they are built.


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/news/extension-of-plans-for-2000-homes-37325188.html

Alrigghtythen

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

2000 new houses in drogheda are planned. It might help with supply issues when they are built.


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/news/extension-of-plans-for-2000-homes-37325188.html

A huge load of houses, beat in on top of each other with no room to breathe. Lots of Council tenants added for the craic.


Sure how could that go wrong? :rolleyes:



EDIT: to add, i don't actually generally mind Council tenants. I was/am one in many ways. But all it takes is one dirty little scumbag and the whole estate is fcuked.

Thoie

seamus wrote: »

Eh, no. Yes, people used to live in tenements. And no, that wasn't OK. "People managed". That's a low bar for a modern society. Shouldn't we be aiming to ensure that everyone has a basic standard of living?

What are we defining as the basic standard of living though? There seems to be a wide variance between what most of us grew up with (3 bed house, 1 room for parents, 1 room for boys, 1 for girls, 1 bathroom for everyone in the family) and what the expectations are now (a solo bedroom for every child, multiple bathrooms).

When I first moved out of student accommodation (least said the better) and started working, I was renting a room in a house with three strangers. We had a bedroom each, and a bathroom between the 4 of us, and shared the kitchen and sitting room. At the time, sharing a 2 bed apartment with one (or maybe two!) bathrooms was something only rich people with big salaries could aspire to.

So, what would you consider as the basic standard of living for an adult with one child? For two adults with 2 children (both the same sex)? For one adult with 3 children (2 of sex a, 1 of sex b)?