Shocker: Primary teachers overwhelmingly Irish Catholics

Hector Bellend

benjamin d wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/primary-teachers-disproportionately-white-irish-and-catholic-1.3642624?mode=amp

So after years of de facto banning anyone who isn't an Irish speaking Catholic from being a primary teacher, a study has noticed Irish teachers aren't very diverse. Well done them.

I know a few people who would've liked to have been teachers but didn't feel comfortable having to toe the catholic church's line to do it.

Maybe the relentless pursuit of "diversity" will finally do what thousands of people have been calling for for years and rid us of the church in schools? Here's hoping...

Theyre there to teach. Who cares if they are diverse or not? It would be better to judge them on their ability to teach rather than anything else

Mint Sauce

I would imagine the stats would be the same for most places, considering that we are a traditionaly white catholic country.

kneemos wrote: »

Almost exclusively female also.

Unfortunetly, society has done this, and is probably down to a fear or aprehension for men to be teachers or in charge of kids, in case of an abuse claim.

Most fellas I know, including my self, would be fearful of tending to a lone kid on the street, or if one had fallen, and would probably look for its mother, or the nearest female, incase we got accused of something.

Turnipman

"“For many students who are refugees, have certain learning difficulties, or have come from abroad and did not speak English when they enrolled in school, the door to primary teaching is closed early as they can be granted an exemption from the otherwise obligatory Irish instruction at school, where Irish, English and Maths are essential subjects for applicants to primary teacher education programmes in Ireland, a barrier to non-Irish nationals who weren’t educated in Ireland,” said Dr Heinz.


Sloppy editing from the IT. Alternatively, Doctor 57 Varieties is talking through her germanic arse.

Mickeroo

Is thee anything to be said for another strike?

Turnipman

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Unfortunetly, society has done this, and is probably down to a fear or aprehension for men to be teachers or in charge of kids, in case of an abuse claim.

Most fellas I know, including my self, would be fearful of tending to a lone kid on the street, or if one had fallen, and would probably look for its mother, or the nearest female, incase we got accused of something.

Looking on the more positive side, male Primary Teachers are like gold dust so have a pick of the jobs when they graduate, as well as the pick of the women while studying! So it's not all bad.

Renegade Mechanic

listermint wrote: »

Just to tidy this up a bit,.

When you say Fund, you do mean getting paid to do so from Government coffers. and getting gifted land by the governments of the day or locals to do so.


The nonsense that the Church was financing education and social issues in local towns across the country has to stop. There wasnt some Vatican Catholic lead social fund building schools and funding their operation.

That is mistruth.

Populist rubbish, the Church wasn't given that much - far less than farmers around the 1900s - not that that was wrong, either.

And said nonsense didn't start. I never mentioned social issues. "Fund" was a vague term, admittedly, but the fact is that without the Catholic Church, Ireland's education back then simply wasn't possible through lack of Government interest/ability. Irish govt got much more back in service than it gave out in anything.

That people en masse are waking up to the crimes committed by the church is a good thing, but it doesn't change how instrumental they were in guaranteeing millions of people the ability to read and write.

Gimme A Pound

Primary teaching has always been dominated by women, with or without the fear of being viewed as a paedo.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Hector Savage wrote: »

Course I'm not seriously suggesting thats a possibility.
I just don't know what the IT is complaining about - the stat shows a pretty fair reflection of the demographic of the country itself, so no big deal.

No, it doesn't. There is a large amount of athiest/agnostic/non-catholic christians out there. Considerably more than radical muslims.

Also they might be "catholic" just like I am officially "catholic" , but doubt they are practicing.
My sister in law is training right now to be a primary school teacher and she is annoyed that she will need to teach religion, she is totally against the RCC and all religion yet she was baptised - so she will be counted as a "Catholic school teacher".

My point entirely. But for some reason, though, you felt "radical Islamic" was a more likely option than unaffiliated/agnostic Christians for a non-catholic teacher. (And yes, you did feel that: otherwise the post wouldn't exist).

TCM

Edgware wrote:

So to be more "inclusive" let's employ thickos as teachers

That was my point - although not put as succinctly as yourself. The first requirement to be a teacher is that the applicant is intelligent and well educated. This diversity issue is a long way down the line as far as I'm concerned.

mcmoustache

Christian Orange Venus wrote: »

Primary teaching has always been dominated by women, with or without the fear of being viewed as a paedo.

IT certainly was. Even back in the days when paedophilia was tolerated, and even actively protected and covered up by the RCC and its members, women still made up the majority of primary school teachers.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

TCM wrote: »

That was my point - although not put as succinctly as yourself. The first requirement to be a teacher is that the applicant is intelligent and well educated. This diversity issue is a long way down the line as far as I'm concerned.

Have you any evidence to suggest diversity has resulted in unqualified teachers being hired? As in, beyond theoretical?

The Tetrarch

benjamin d wrote: »

The problem is the rules around becoming a teacher and the routes to do it copperfasten that stereotypical demographic as the only type allowed. Must speak Irish, must do a catholic-led course, must (96%) teach to a catholic ethos. It's completely unfair to a lot of people.

... must wear a cardigan.

nice_guy80

The Tetrarch wrote: »

... must wear a cardigan.

They got rid of that requirement in 2002, thankfully

benjamin d

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Theyre there to teach. Who cares if they are diverse or not? It would be better to judge them on their ability to teach rather than anything else

If only they were judged on their ability to teach. They're judged on how well they can pretend to be a good catholic while they're only in college, never mind when applying for jobs. Many people who would be excellent teachers are effectively banned before they've even begun. I'm not talking about some utopia where the teachers are all black or Muslim or gay or travellers, many standard Irish people are excluded from being teachers straight off.

I have no doubt many teachers aren't strict Catholics but the fact is they have to play that role to get a job and they have to teach to that ethos in practically every school in the country, so for all intents and purposes they are Catholics and they teach Catholicism. That is not representative of Ireland today.
For male teachers in particular I know for a fact that GAA players are highly sought after as they can coach the school teams. Not everyone in Ireland plays GAA or wants to.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Of, right, so those are the only options then? Trad Irish god-fearing Catholic and radical west-hating Islam?

There's absolutely nothing in between? You're sure about this?

The problem in a nutshell is that people want a traditional conservative education. Or at least they're told they do. And an Irish, catholic, preferably female teaching demographic is the best way of bringing this about.

Now, while there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, it IS limiting. You're going to get the same thing year in year out, and it's not going bring about a vibrant, modernised, expressive forward-moving generation when the country probably needs it the most.

While the church needs to get out of education there’s not much religious indoctrination going on in most secondary schools. For me religion as a subject was akin to civics. In fact we often discussed American imperialism.

Primary schools with the communions etc are different. Too much time wasted on that.

whisky_galore

kneemos wrote: »

Almost exclusively female also.

In much the same way as men dominate the bin collecting industry, it's just an easy choice to make. Can't force men to become teachers or force women to become bin...people.

Assetbacked

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

While the church needs to get out of education there’s not much religious indoctrination going on in most secondary schools. For me religion as a subject was akin to civics. In fact we often discussed American imperialism.

Primary schools with the communions etc are different. Too much time wasted on that.

I recall practicing Catholicism in primary school and learning about the Bible and Jesus like it was fact. Secondary school, IIRC, involved learning about the traditions and practices of different religions, eventually ascending into a movie-watching class with movies that preached somewhat philosophical questions (e.g. the Matrix). In effect, a waste of time the whole thing and would be better served with replacement as a basic philosophical module which provides the basis for all science and the humanities.

riffmongous

Christian Orange Venus wrote: »

Primary teaching has always been dominated by women, with or without the fear of being viewed as a paedo.

Indeed, the reason I always thought men didn't do it was because it was seen as a job for women, like nursing.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Primary schools with the communions etc are different. Too much time wasted on that.

Always wondered why priests and nuns didn't do that part of the education themselves. For one thing, they'd probably be better at it.

Assetbacked wrote: »

I recall practicing Catholicism in primary school and learning about the Bible and Jesus like it was fact. Secondary school, IIRC, involved learning about the traditions and practices of different religions, eventually ascending into a movie-watching class with movies that preached somewhat philosophical questions (e.g. the Matrix). In effect, a waste of time the whole thing and would be better served with replacement as a basic philosophical module which provides the basis for all science and the humanities.

You were lucky. We got grainy abortion videos.

BBFAN

It will just take another 10 years or so before this starts to change when children from non Irish backgrounds start to graduate from college.

As someone else mentioned earlier they often have better Irish than we do as they've been brought up speaking 2 languages from birth.

Zebra3

tretorn wrote: »

So what if most of the teachers are white Irish.

Go to a muslim country and guess what all the schools will be muslim and all the teachers will be too unless there is a shortage of teachers and then non muslim teachers can get in for a limited time. They will follow the local culture though so maybe no alcohol and women will cover themselves head to toe.

So you support us copying Islamic countries?

Interesting....

Gimme A Pound

I do think it's a pity that potentially great teachers miss out because of not having the Irish language though, even though I'm in favour of preserving Irish.

MadDog76

Catholic country with the majority of teachers being Catholic...... I really don't see why that's a shock to anyone?

Kathnora

Why is this discussion predominately about religion? The main reason why primary teachers are Irish is because of the fact that they have to have honours in Leaving Cert Irish in order to gain entry to the B.Ed degree programme. Now in recent years and in particular since 2004 we have had many non national children enter our school system. Some of these may sit Honours Irish in the Leaving Cert and become teachers. It just takes time.....

Donald Trump

Edgware wrote: »

So to be more "inclusive" let's employ thickos as teachers

I think that your school already nailed that a fair while back to be fair.........

jay0109

It was a dreadful piece of 'academic research' from an Irish University- I can see now why they continue to tumble down the international rankings.

jay0109

Arkham City wrote: »

Let me get this straight, the majority of primary teachers, in Ireland, are white and Catholic?

WTF?!!

And they are majority female too but the report neglect to mention that nugget. The 2 (female authors) somehow missed that...go figure