Rifle shooting on private land

Eraserhead

Hi All,

Looking for advice on setting up a temporary range out in Meath for two shooters on private land (unused fields) backing onto to a small wood using .22LR rifles.

The range length would be about 260m long with a wood extending a further 500m beyond the range and there's a further 800m after the wood before we get to a populated area.

Thinking of using a couple of round silage bales (not to be used for feed) to affix paper targets, no steel plinking with risk of ricochets etc.

Anyone know if the following regulations apply?

S.I. No. 622/2011 - Firearms (Authorisation of Rifle or Pistol Shooting Ranges) Regulations 2011.

GreeBo

Eraserhead wrote: »

Hi All,

Looking for advice on setting up a temporary range out in Meath for two shooters on private land (unused fields) backing onto to a small wood using .22LR rifles.

The range length would be about 260m long with a wood extending a further 500m beyond the range and there's a further 800m after the wood before we get to a populated area.

Thinking of using a couple of round silage bales (not to be used for feed) to affix paper targets, no steel plinking with risk of ricochets etc.

Anyone know if the following regulations apply?

S.I. No. 622/2011 - Firearms (Authorisation of Rifle or Pistol Shooting Ranges) Regulations 2011.

Minimum you'd need to have something to stop stray shots.
I presume the wood and field are public property?

Eraserhead

Wood and field are all private, densely populated low conifers, no public access, despite that the intention is to have a backstop to prevent shots exiting the intended range area, the wood just adds another 500m of safety.

GolfVI

Target shooting with a rifle is illegal in Ireland unless its on an authourised range..Shooting ranges in Ireland must be granted both planning permission by the local county council and an authorisation under section 2(5) of the Firearms Act by the local Garda Superintendent. Since the 2009 firearms act, most shooting ranges are required by their local Superintendent to be inspected and certified by the Firearms Range Inspector under section 4A of the Firearms Act.

cookimonster

Have a look at Harbour House, Midlands, and Courtlough shooting ranges. They are designed and built those ways for a reason for both safety and compliance.

You won't get planning permission or authorisation until you can prove you have reached the required standards and that cost a lot of money.

Eraserhead

Thanks GolfVI & cookimonster for your feedback, appreciated, I had a feeling that would be the case but wasn't 100% sure, before doing anything we wanted to ensure public safety and be legally compliant, I suspect to achieve that is beyond our budget, you know what planning is like in this country!

Yeah Courtlough is where we at, looking for a long range, I think they have plans to extend there's next year so we have that to look forward to

Cass

Two other things:
A range must have a minimum number of members to be classed as a range not to mention at least one person who is a registered RCO, and a set number of ROs.
There are serious laws regarding maintenance of records in relation to EPA, membership, shots fired, attendance, safety, etc, etc.

The license alone costs €1,000 for a range not to mention the baffles, clubhouse, backstop, etc.

Not trying to put you off and you can keep it fairly small to keep costs down, but unfortunately the days of setting up a few targets and shooting away are well and truly gone both legally and financially.

madmac187

Eraserhead wrote: »

Hi All,

Looking for advice on setting up a temporary range out in Meath for two shooters on private land (unused fields) backing onto to a small wood using .22LR rifles.

The range length would be about 260m long with a wood extending a further 500m beyond the range and there's a further 800m after the wood before we get to a populated area.

Thinking of using a couple of round silage bales (not to be used for feed) to affix paper targets, no steel plinking with risk of ricochets etc.

Anyone know if the following regulations apply?

S.I. No. 622/2011 - Firearms (Authorisation of Rifle or Pistol Shooting Ranges) Regulations 2011.

Maybe you are only sighting in your scope, that’s perfectly legal, not setting up a range if you catch my drift ?

Luckysasha

Go for it. I have targets set at 50 to 120 yards in increments of 10 yards dotted all over my 90 acre land. All targets can be shot from a seated position in one of the sheds so no problem shooting in the rain. I use .22lr subsonic rounds through a silencer so i cant possibly be heard from the road. So unless on the off chance Mr Local Garda was to walk 500 yards up a mucky lane and find me in the shed i reckon im safe enough. People will quote you this law and that law about why you cant do exactly what i have described but at the end of the day common sense has to apply here. And before everyone jumps down my throat telling me im breaking the law and im going to ruin shooting for everyone else well as the bible says let he who is without sin cast the first stone

Grizzly 45

Dunno what the Nazarene said about chucking stones, maybe Judaeic/Roman law was a tad vague on that 2,000 years ago but the Irish law is a bit more specific on the matter.AS the CRI said to me, there will always be exceptions to the rule, and the most important in the DOJ eyes is that you can account safely.for.every.single.shot.fired. That is their utter priority, public safety, first, middle and last.

Plus that you are not making an utter dick of the situation and annoying the neighbours with noise and stray rounds dropping in their property.
IOW go right ahead and do what you want, but we'll nail your hide to the barn door if you mess up or annoy people!

Your neck my man...I wouldn't have put that much detail on a public forum as to what you are doing...But hey...;):rolleyes:

johnb25

Hopefully not too far OT, but are there similar regs for shooting clays with a shotgun? Not a shooter myself, but neighbours have set something up for own use in a field behind their house.

Grizzly 45

No, Clays are exempt as they are shot with shotguns, hence their ammo doesn't travel as far as a single rifle/pistol bullet would. Which is the bigger worry to the PTB.

Luckysasha

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

No, Clays are exempt as they are shot with shotguns, hence their ammo doesn't travel as far as a single rifle/pistol bullet would. Which is the bigger worry to the PTB.

Which would you rather have your neighbors do ? Plink away like me with subsonics and a silencer or have a 100 bird clay shoot !!!
Shotguns have their dangers too. Have you ever seen cattle react in a shed when a few stray pellets hit the galvanize roof. Im Sure many farmers can relate to that

Cass

Luckysasha wrote: »

Go for it.

To the OP, don't "just do it".

As was said above it's illegal and if you do it, get caught, then no amount of excuses, or others are doing it will prevent you from being trouble.

And before everyone jumps down my throat telling me im breaking the law and im going to ruin shooting for everyone else well as the bible says let he who is without sin cast the first stone

Your excuse is no one can say they're truly "innocent" so why not?

The two people i know that got caught done exactly what you done and posted online explaining or bragging about their exploits. The cease and desist writs soon followed, and one with a hefty fine.


Remember that zeroing is technically target shooting because you zero using a target and the law outlines what a target is and it covers everything from tin cans to paper targets. It's why the law makes it illegal outside a range and while we've said umpteen times how the Minister at the time said this was not his intent, it was never changed.

Luckily the new Garda Commissioner has updated the guidelines (stress guidelines, not law) which says a Garda should exercise common sense and differentiate between a person zeroing on private land for safety reasons and a guy or few guys shooting targets for fun.


We're not the internet police and what you do in the privacy of your own home or land is your business, but on this forum we don't low the discussion of illegal activity while trying to give people the best advice.

To that end target shooting outside a range is illegal, and zeroing while still technically illegal may be excusable under a limited set of circumstances.

Grizzly 45

Luckysasha wrote: »

Which would you rather have your neighbors do ? Plink away like me with subsonics and a silencer or have a 100 bird clay shoot !!!
Shotguns have their dangers too. Have you ever seen cattle react in a shed when a few stray pellets hit the galvanize roof. Im Sure many farmers can relate to that

Take it up with the sht for brains politicians who made this law up in the first place.:rolleyes: So do these cattle go mental in a hail shower??Alot longer and louder than no 7 shot falling on a galvanised roof??

johnb25

Luckysasha wrote: »

Which would you rather have your neighbors do ? Plink away like me with subsonics and a silencer or have a 100 bird clay shoot !!!
Shotguns have their dangers too. Have you ever seen cattle react in a shed when a few stray pellets hit the galvanize roof. Im Sure many farmers can relate to that

Actually it's the noise that is the problem. We have a dog in the house that goes nuts at the sound of gunshot. We're probably far enough away to be out of danger from pellets.
However the different regs as explained above make sense. It's new since Christmas, so will see how it goes. Thanks.

Luckysasha

I cant possibly see how any court could convict you of shooting at a target on your land. Im talking about discrete targets set in predetermined places at know distances weather it be a rock, a fence post, a bale or an old paint tin. Ok if you had professional grade steel match targets and wind socks etc set up and 20 lads shooting stingers or other HV ammo then fair enough a garda mightn’t be too impressed but for what i have described im sure a judge would have a good laugh when its brought before him.

looksee

I only wandered in here by accident, but as an ex-archer we would never have considered an area of woodland a suitable 'safety zone' behind a target - rather the reverse, stand with your back to the woodland and shoot into the open where you can at least see what is there. And shooting out of a shed would have been a total no-no.

tac foley

Luckysasha wrote: »

I cant possibly see how any court could convict you of shooting at a target on your land. Im talking about discrete targets set in predetermined places at know distances weather it be a rock, a fence post, a bale or an old paint tin. Ok if you had professional grade steel match targets and wind socks etc set up and 20 lads shooting stingers or other HV ammo then fair enough a garda mightn’t be too impressed but for what i have described im sure a judge would have a good laugh when its brought before him.

Please re-read post #14. It seems quite plain to me.

BattleCorp

Luckysasha wrote: »

I cant possibly see how any court could convict you of shooting at a target on your land.

It's like anything illegal in Ireland. It's grand as long as you don't get caught.

And chances are that you mightn't get caught.

But there's no point whinging if you do get caught, get convicted, get fined, get your guns confiscated and maybe lose the ability to go to places like America due to having a firearms conviction on your record.

Big chance to take. Is it worth it?

Zxthinger

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

No, Clays are exempt as they are shot with shotguns, hence their ammo doesn't travel as far as a single rifle/pistol bullet would. Which is the bigger worry to the PTB.

Probably same range as an low powered air rifle

Cass

Clay pigeon shooting is exempt because it's not classed as target shooting.

Cass

Luckysasha wrote: »

I cant possibly see how any court could convict you of shooting at a target on your land..

Get a judge, on a good day, that DOESN'T follow the letter of the law or feels like being lenient and you might just get away with (if you call being caught, charged, proscuted, and a court appearance getting away with, not to mention the follow up by AGS of possibly refusing future applications/substitutions or even revoking licenses)

Get a judge that follows the law, without consideration for personal reasoning, or simply on a bad day, and you're stuffed. Loss of guns, dis-entitled from applying for at lest 5 years, etc.

The law does not distinguish between "professional" grade or a milk carton. just that it's a target and you're shooting at it.

As for type of ammo, again irrelevant. The only exception being shotguns for the reason above.

slipperyox

Are the defence forces ranges governed by the same legislation/rules as clubs/private?

solarwinds

slipperyox wrote: »

Are the defence forces ranges governed by the same legislation/rules as clubs/private?

Doubt it.
I enquired a long time ago when I was in the FCA about using their range closest to me, I was politely told not a snowballs chance in hell. Its an awful waste of good facilities that they could be generating an income from.

Rows Grower

Cass wrote: »

To the OP, don't "just do it".

As was said above it's illegal and if you do it, get caught, then no amount of excuses, or others are doing it will prevent you from being trouble.

Your excuse is no one can say they're truly "innocent" so why not?

The two people i know that got caught done exactly what you done and posted online explaining or bragging about their exploits. The cease and desist writs soon followed, and one with a hefty fine.


Remember that zeroing is technically target shooting because you zero using a target and the law outlines what a target is and it covers everything from tin cans to paper targets. It's why the law makes it illegal outside a range and while we've said umpteen times how the Minister at the time said this was not his intent, it was never changed.

Luckily the new Garda Commissioner has updated the guidelines (stress guidelines, not law) which says a Garda should exercise common sense and differentiate between a person zeroing on private land for safety reasons and a guy or few guys shooting targets for fun.


We're not the internet police and what you do in the privacy of your own home or land is your business, but on this forum we don't low the discussion of illegal activity while trying to give people the best advice.

To that end target shooting outside a range is illegal, and zeroing while still technically illegal may be excusable under a limited set of circumstances.

That's actually a big positive for the sport and well worth knowing.

meathstevie

solarwinds wrote: »

Doubt it.
I enquired a long time ago when I was in the FCA about using their range closest to me, I was politely told not a snowballs chance in hell. Its an awful waste of good facilities that they could be generating an income from.

It's a common practice on military ranges in the UK. Civilian target shooting competitions and training sessions are quite regularly held on MoD ranges. Unfortunately in Ireland it hasn't been done and more than likely won't be done.

aaakev

meathstevie wrote: »

It's a common practice on military ranges in the UK. Civilian target shooting competitions and training sessions are quite regularly held on MoD ranges. Unfortunately in Ireland it hasn't been done and more than likely won't be done.

Its a pity because the range in the curragh is class! I shot the FN, styer and bren in there loads of times. Working in the butts is some craic raising the targets, hearing all the rounds flying overhead and hitting the mound behind you. Flack jackets and helmets are part of the uniform for that job.

There is no way the army range falls under the same rules as a civilian range because there is a road right behind the range and in the falling plates range you are shooting steel targets with 5.56.

Id say they would do well holding some comps there

Gorgeousgeorge

Im not known to many on here so il come out and say it but i do have my own 800 yard max range set up on my own land. Even have a berm/backstop built and the whole lot.

Have not used it in a number of years though as i have gone away from rifle shooting but the way things are gone i dont think i would use it again ever.

Luckysasha

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

Im not known to many on here so il come out and say it but i do have my own 800 yard max range set up on my own land. Even have a berm/backstop built and the whole lot.

Have not used it in a number of years though as i have gone away from rifle shooting but the way things are gone i dont think i would use it again ever.

At last an honest man

Rows Grower

Luckysasha wrote: »

At last an honest man

There's a few of us left.

Gorgeousgeorge

Luckysasha wrote: »

At last an honest man

Used to be great crack trying to see how far you could put a cci standard in .22 on an a3 sheet.

tac foley

I presume that you are writing this post using the prison library computer facilities?

slipperyox

Is "game" a target?

aaakev

slipperyox wrote: »

Is "game" a target?

Its 'the' target, but its hunting so thats ok....

Luckysasha

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

Used to be great crack trying to see how far you could put a cci standard in .22 on an a3 sheet.

A euro coin at 120 yards !!!! Even heard rumors of lads placing shotgun shells between 2 concrete blocks and trying to shoot the primer to make the shell go off !!! Could be just a rumour though

Luckysasha

aaakev wrote: »

Its 'the' target, but its hunting so thats ok....

Just get a few dead bunnies and prop them up at set distances then. Problem solved !!!

Rows Grower

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

Used to be great crack trying to see how far you could put a cci standard in .22 on an a3 sheet.

What would have been a good shot distance wise back in the day?

Rows Grower

Luckysasha wrote: »

A euro coin at 120 yards !!!! Even heard rumors of lads placing shotgun shells between 2 concrete blocks and trying to shoot the primer to make the shell go off !!! Could be just a rumour though

I'm reliably informed that a local guy around where I live (now deceased) used to be able to hit a matchbox from 100 yards with a .22, standing shot no sights of course.

Gorgeousgeorge

Rows Grower wrote: »

What would have been a good shot distance wise back in the day?

This was only 8 years ago. Anywhere after 350 yards .Just a bit of crack seeing how far you could stretch out the .22. Missed alot more than hit

Captainaxiom

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'm reliably informed that a local guy around where I live (now deceased) used to be able to hit a matchbox from 100 yards with a .22, standing shot no sights of course.

Sounds like the lad that lives near all shooters that could kill a rabbit at 120yards with a 7 1/2 in single barrel Baikal 🤦*♂️

Brontosaurus

So you can shoot clays on your own land no bother? No applications or permission needed, or is it best practice to inform the gards?

I find it ridiculous that you can't shoot at targets on your own land, a setting which is far more safe and predictable than stalking a deer or other game.

Luckysasha

Brontosaurus wrote: »

So you can shoot clays on your own land no bother? No applications or permission needed, or is it best practice to inform the gards?

I find it ridiculous that you can't shoot at targets on your own land, a setting which is far more safe and predictable than stalking a deer or other game.

Shoot away lad. As long as your safe and sensible about it then you will be grand.

tac foley

Thing is, lead shot tends to fall out of the sky at around 300m, but even a .22LR will happily go a mile if let off at the suitable angle...in fact, boxes used to be printed with the warning 'Dangerous at ONE mile!'

BattleCorp

Brontosaurus wrote: »

So you can shoot clays on your own land no bother? No applications or permission needed, or is it best practice to inform the gards?

I find it ridiculous that you can't shoot at targets on your own land, a setting which is far more safe and predictable than stalking a deer or other game.

Luckysasha wrote: »

Shoot away lad. As long as your safe and sensible about it then you will be grand.

Just to be clear, you can shoot clays to your hearts content with a shotgun on your own land as long as you are safe and sensible.

What you are not allowed to do is to prop clays up against a backstop and shoot at them with your rifle.

Luckysasha

BattleCorp wrote: »

Just to be clear, you can shoot clays to your hearts content with a shotgun on your own land as long as you are safe and sensible.

What you are not allowed to do is to prop clays up against a backstop and shoot at them with your rifle.

Wink wink !!!!!

The Enbalmer

Luckysasha wrote:

A euro coin at 120 yards !!!! Even heard rumors of lads placing shotgun shells between 2 concrete blocks and trying to shoot the primer to make the shell go off !!! Could be just a rumour though

Heard a similar rumour about guys using 1oz solid shots to break paving slabs at 30 yards.
And another about a guy who would shoot holes in metal fenceposts with his .22 magnum rifle.