Building A 'Room' In The Back Garden

Kintarō Hattori

Hi Folks,

Currently my partner and I are experiencing severe noise issues with a neighbour and the missus has mused the idea of building something in the back garden that would allow her to get a good nights sleep. I'm just trying to get some ideas of what it would cost to build a fairly straight forward structure.
We envisage a rectangular shaped room with enough space for a bed, maybe a toilet if feasible, a sloped roof to allow water run off but the main thing is we want it to be well insulated from noise.

Where do I even start on something like this?

Jack Moore

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Currently my partner and I are experiencing severe noise issues with a neighbour and the missus has mused the idea of building something in the back garden that would allow her to get a good nights sleep. I'm just trying to get some ideas of what it would cost to build a fairly straight forward structure.
We envisage a rectangular shaped room with enough space for a bed, maybe a toilet if feasible, a sloped roof to allow water run off but the main thing is we want it to be well insulated from noise.

Where do I even start on something like this?

An extension?
What’s the budget

Gumbo

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Currently my partner and I are experiencing severe noise issues with a neighbour and the missus has mused the idea of building something in the back garden that would allow her to get a good nights sleep. I'm just trying to get some ideas of what it would cost to build a fairly straight forward structure.
We envisage a rectangular shaped room with enough space for a bed, maybe a toilet if feasible, a sloped roof to allow water run off but the main thing is we want it to be well insulated from noise.

Where do I even start on something like this?

Connected to the house or a stand alone building?
Planning required.

TheBoyConor

I'd say a pair of noise cancelling earplugs would be a bit more cost effective tbh.

A bit extreme to go building an outside bedroom for the sake of being away from noise.
To do it properly is going to cost quite a lot of money. Bear in mind that it would have to be heated, insulated to Part L needs, plumbed, electrics and laying sewerage if ye install a WC, which could involve a pump if depending on the falls on your site.

Could ye not spend the money improving the sound insulation of your home? Might be money better spent to be honest.

Lumen

You can't legally sleep overnight in a structure that doesn't have planning permission.

Much easier to soundproof a room in the house.

Or learn to sleep with ear plugs.

Penn

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Currently my partner and I are experiencing severe noise issues with a neighbour and the missus has mused the idea of building something in the back garden that would allow her to get a good nights sleep. I'm just trying to get some ideas of what it would cost to build a fairly straight forward structure.
We envisage a rectangular shaped room with enough space for a bed, maybe a toilet if feasible, a sloped roof to allow water run off but the main thing is we want it to be well insulated from noise.

Where do I even start on something like this?

Don't. That's going to extremes to solve a simple enough problem. You could spend 10% of the likely cost just improving the sound resistance of your existing wall with Soundbloc pasterboard on battens with rockwool behind. It might not get rid of all the noise, but should do enough to reduce it enough to sleep through it.

If you want to build the above, you're talking planning permission, building it to a comfortable standard (heating, insulated etc), connecting into existing drainage, losing garden space (I'm guessing if you're having noise issues with a neighbour, you're likely semi-detached or terraced in an estate), and decent enough cost, and yet you still might have to insulate it as much as you would with your bedroom depending on proximity and noise levels.

Any way you could approach the neighbours and discuss their noise levels?

Kintarō Hattori

kceire wrote: »

Connected to the house or a stand alone building?
Planning required.

Oh I know planning permission is required but I'm just trying to figure out what the budget would be. It'd be stand alone from the house.

Kintarō Hattori

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I'd say a pair of noise cancelling earplugs would be a bit more cost effective tbh.

A bit extreme to go building an outside bedroom for the sake of being away from noise.
To do it properly is going to cost quite a lot of money. Bear in mind that it would have to be heated, insulated to Part L needs, plumbed, electrics and laying sewerage if ye install a WC, which could involve a pump if depending on the falls on your site.

Could ye not spend the money improving the sound insulation of your home? Might be money better spent to be honest.

They sure would but my partner who's most affected has tried earplugs, sleeping in our daughters room etc and it doesn't help.

Lumen wrote: »

You can't legally sleep overnight in a structure that doesn't have planning permission.

Much easier to soundproof a room in the house.

Or learn to sleep with ear plugs.

How effective would soundproofing a bedroom be? We're in a terrace and immediately connected to the house causing the issue. They are timber framed houses that were constructed in 2007.

Penn wrote: »

Don't. That's going to extremes to solve a simple enough problem. You could spend 10% of the likely cost just improving the sound resistance of your existing wall with Soundbloc pasterboard on battens with rockwool behind. It might not get rid of all the noise, but should do enough to reduce it enough to sleep through it.

If you want to build the above, you're talking planning permission, building it to a comfortable standard (heating, insulated etc), connecting into existing drainage, losing garden space (I'm guessing if you're having noise issues with a neighbour, you're likely semi-detached or terraced in an estate), and decent enough cost, and yet you still might have to insulate it as much as you would with your bedroom depending on proximity and noise levels.

Any way you could approach the neighbours and discuss their noise levels?

We've approached the neighbour on several occasions and she's not willing to engage. It's at the stage now that we're taking her to court. We're in no way being dramatic about this but it's at an unacceptable level of noise, windows being opened and closed with force at all hours of the night, stomping up and down the stairs and whatever else she's getting up to.
How effective can sound proofing be? I think for us a lot of the noise is through the wall that separates our house from hers and where the stairs are both located. We also have large vents in each room which I think is an issue too.

JimmyMW

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Oh I know planning permission is required but I'm just trying to figure out what the budget would be. It'd be stand alone from the house.

Planning permission will not be granted for this, plenty of threads on here on why not, don't even bother trying to find out the cost as this is not a option anyway.

pwurple

Sounds like what you are looking for is a simple soundproofed garden studio to "play or record music in. ". No sleeping or toilets Kintaro. 

These guys do them, you could give them a buzz.
https://www. Snip
You can spend as much as you like tbh. Depends on finishes etc. It'd be easy enough to spend 10k on it I'd imagine. We've probably spent almost that on garden patios, a built in bbq with a roof area, plumbing water and waste to a potting shed over the years.

Lumen

pwurple wrote: »

Sounds like what you are looking for is a simple soundproofed garden studio to "play or record music in. ". No sleeping or toilets Kintaro. 

These guys do them, you could give them a buzz.
snip
You can spend as much as you like tbh. Depends on finishes etc. It'd be easy enough to spend 10k on it I'd imagine. We've probably spent almost that on garden patios, a built in bbq with a roof area, plumbing water and waste to a potting shed over the years.

When i priced a snip it was more like 25k. Besides which, the use is illegal. But that'll only be a problem if a neighbour complains. Oh, wait....

TheBoyConor

Is your neighbour obnoxious or would she be suffering from a mental disease? That's not normal behaviour whatever the cause is?

banie01

My advice 1st off would be Earplugs

Costwise it really depends on what you build and Spec.

I recently put in a combined Mancave and shed thats likely a similar spec to what you are after finishwise(But probably larger.)
I put services down there as it allowed the washing machine and dryer to be moved out of the kitchen and snuck a toilet in down there too.

It is a "garden room" one cannot sleep in it, it is not deemed a habitable space.
That said the couch in there is an Ikea fold out bed and the kid has had a sleepover or 3 out there.

Its a 7.5mtr x 5mtr Steeltech shed on an insulated slab.
Interior is split into a 2.5mtr x 5mtr bay thats the actual shed and a 5mtr x 5mtr bay thats the Mancave.
Insulated, battened, slabbed and plastered including the groundwork and slab came to @23k
Brick built was running me @double that cost.

JimmyMW

pwurple wrote: »

Sounds like what you are looking for is a simple soundproofed garden studio to "play or record music in. ". No sleeping or toilets Kintaro. 

These guys do them, you could give them a buzz.
https://www.snip/
You can spend as much as you like tbh. Depends on finishes etc. It'd be easy enough to spend 10k on it I'd imagine. We've probably spent almost that on garden patios, a built in bbq with a roof area, plumbing water and waste to a potting shed over the years.

This advice is foolish, you will end up with a very expensive shed and still have the same problem you have now. Pwurple, do you honestly think when they are going to court with a neighbor that said neighbor wont report them to the planning authority once they start using it for sleeping.

Kintarō Hattori

I hear everything you're saying folks but no-one has really highlighted my query in the last post. How likely effective would soundproofing be? We've lived beside this person for 7 years and never had a problem until this summer when it all seemed to kick off.

Lumen

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I hear everything you're saying folks but no-one has really highlighted my query in the last post. How likely effective would soundproofing be? We've lived beside this person for 7 years and never had a problem until this summer when it all seemed to kick off.

Depends on how much effort you put in. This is a solved problem!

What's interesting about this one is that aside from the putty pads and the metal clips/battens, the bulk materials are not very specialist, they are just used in an effective combination with lots of layers and air sealing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYD7WBzUduA

Gumbo

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I hear everything you're saying folks but no-one has really highlighted my query in the last post. How likely effective would soundproofing be? We've lived beside this person for 7 years and never had a problem until this summer when it all seemed to kick off.

Sound proofing wont really work unless you can do the whole party wall, up to the ridgeline. Then you face the noise, what's causing it? Impact noise, reverberation etc

It cannot be really fixed without extensive works to both sides of the party wall.

.......

My neighbour who is not connected to my property likes to let his older kids use the back garden at night for themselves and their friends in the summer time to drink and generally enjoy themselves. The neighbour and his wife sleep in the front of the house so they dont hear a lot of whats going on out the back. We sleep in the back of the house, on the side overlooking their garden so we are the ones subjected to drinking, music and loud voices til all hours on some occasions. They are literally a few feet away while I am trying to sleep.

We do complain if its a weeknight and usually the kids are amicable about it and turn down the music etc but invariably the voices will become more raised as the drinking continues, plus heavy wooden patio chairs scraping back and forth, the clinks of bottles and glasses etc....

So you get the picture right?

We both took to wearing in ear ear plugs, these ones (they come in 2 different sizes and are the best Ive ever tried).

However, summer just gone, with the heat etc we bought a Dyson air purifier/fan. Its pretty loud when turned up to the max, but its ambient noise. You can sleep through it. We also got a standing conventional fan as well.

Didnt hear a thing from the neighbours since. Although I noticed a couple of times when I went to the loo at night that they were partying on outside.

But a combo of the earplugs and fans meant I was sleeping in a white noise cocoon.

It might help you.

rosmoke

I'd definitely soundproof communal wall + most walls in the house, regardless of who's living beside.
Houses are terrible bad quality here, I hope they can be improved through insulation.

TBH even without knowing how effective it is, I'd still do it, it's impossible not to improve the current situation and it'll be miles away better than building another structure in the garden.

Penn

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I hear everything you're saying folks but no-one has really highlighted my query in the last post. How likely effective would soundproofing be? We've lived beside this person for 7 years and never had a problem until this summer when it all seemed to kick off.

It really depends on how far you're willing to go with it and how much space is available in the room, plus the existing wall construction. Say for example you rendered the wall, battened it with timber, filled in between with mineralwool, and then used soundproofing plasterboard, you could definitely reduce the noise levels coming through. The mineral wool particularly will help sound dissipate (though sound can still travel through the timber battens. If you were willing to lift floorboards, you could also place mineral wool for a few hundred mm between the floor joists.

As for noise coming through the vent, it wouldn't be advisable to block them up unless you have something like trickle vents in the windows to prevent condensation and allow decent airflow/air-changes in the room.

Most of the noise you've described is coming from impact (slamming windows/doors, stomping on stairs), which means it's carried through the structure. Ultimately there's only so much you could do. But building a bedroom with en-suite in the back of the garden... You'd be better off just sleeping in another bedroom.

kceire wrote: »

Sound proofing wont really work unless you can do the whole party wall, up to the ridgeline. Then you face the noise, what's causing it? Impact noise, reverberation etc

It cannot be really fixed without extensive works to both sides of the party wall.

Agreed, however I think you could do enough that it might reduce it enough to not disturb/prevent sleep.

Gumbo

Penn wrote: »

Agreed, however I think you could do enough that it might reduce it enough to not disturb/prevent sleep.

Possibly, I was in a pair of houses this month that failed the Part E sound Test. Builder had to spend 8k on a system to get it though. Basically stripping it back down, insulating both sides with an aquostic layer and associated build up.

Penn

kceire wrote: »

Possibly, I was in a pair of houses this month that failed the Part E sound Test. Builder had to spend 8k on a system to get it though. Basically stripping it back down, insulating both sides with an aquostic layer and associated build up.

Well that's fair enough, and it does depend on the age and method of construction.

pwurple

JimmyMW wrote: »

This advice is foolish, you will end up with a very expensive shed and still have the same problem you have now. Pwurple, do you honestly think when they are going to court with a neighbor that said neighbor wont report them to the planning authority once they start using it for sleeping.

He's on about a snooze here and there, not moving in there. My kids sleep out in our garden, in a tent a few nights a year, the planning isn't down on top of us for sleeping conditions. He asked about soundproofing, and there's a musician who lives near us with a soundproofed studio in his garden, works just fine. 
That being said, if it's more than the odd 40 winks, my realistic advice would be to move house rather than build. Opening and closing windows, and walking on stairs isn't an outrageous thing to be doing in your own house. ... and I've no idea how you are constructing a case for bringing them to court for that. It sounds like the relationship is gone to pot. I've a relative who is just heavy-handed/footed. It sounds like he is stamping and slamming around the place the whole time, but it's just how he is built. He can't help it. 

Find yourself something detatched, or co-joined.

Gumbo

Penn wrote: »

Well that's fair enough, and it does depend on the age and method of construction.

Block built, the brickie never heard of single coursing. Double coursed the whole party wall. It was an expensive mistake and i'm sure it wont happen again

JimmyMW

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Currently my partner and I are experiencing severe noise issues with a neighbour and the missus has mused the idea of building something in the back garden that would allow her to get a good nights sleep. I'm just trying to get some ideas of what it would cost to build a fairly straight forward structure.
We envisage a rectangular shaped room with enough space for a bed, maybe a toilet if feasible, a sloped roof to allow water run off but the main thing is we want it to be well insulated from noise.

Where do I even start on something like this?

pwurple wrote: »

He's on about a snooze here and there, not moving in there. My kids sleep out in our garden, in a tent a few nights a year, the planning isn't down on top of us for sleeping conditions. He asked about soundproofing, and there's a musician who lives near us with a soundproofed studio in his garden, works just fine. 
That being said, if it's more than the odd 40 winks, my realistic advice would be to move house rather than build. Opening and closing windows, and walking on stairs isn't an outrageous thing to be doing in your own house. ... and I've no idea how you are constructing a case for bringing them to court for that. It sounds like the relationship is gone to pot. I've a relative who is just heavy-handed/footed. It sounds like he is stamping and slamming around the place the whole time, but it's just how he is built. He can't help it. 

Find yourself something detatched, or co-joined.

I think you'll find the op was on about sleeping there, not the odd 40 winks as you put it, see bold section above. Confusing the issue with tents in the back lawn a few nights a year is irrelevant, planning laws are clear.

Kintarō Hattori

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xLUMXsRgXA2LwpwxT0O0NU1sSNz5oLWg/view?usp=sharing

Listen from about a minute onwards and tell me that's acceptable. I can't believe it is. This is 6 hours condensed into about 3 minutes.

You really need to hear it in a quiet environment to get the full effect. This is during the night when the housing estate we both live on is quiet, most people aren't storming around their home, slamming doors and windows etc.

SnakePlissken

kceire wrote: »

Block built, the brickie never heard of single coursing. Double coursed the whole party wall. It was an expensive mistake and i'm sure it wont happen again

Just on this point, when you say double coursed and single coursed, what does this mean exactly?

Possibly a foolish question, I'm not in the building trade so I've never heard these terms. Thanks.

italodisco

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xLUMXsRgXA2LwpwxT0O0NU1sSNz5oLWg/view?usp=sharing

Listen from about a minute onwards and tell me that's acceptable. I can't believe it is. This is 6 hours condensed into about 3 minutes.

You really need to hear it in a quiet environment to get the full effect. This is during the night when the housing estate we both live on is quiet, most people aren't storming around their home, slamming doors and windows etc.

Absolute nutter, is this a young or elderly person?

Thank god I don't have this type of neighbour, I'd be doing a stretch in the joy if I did

TheMilkyPirate

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xLUMXsRgXA2LwpwxT0O0NU1sSNz5oLWg/view?usp=sharing

Listen from about a minute onwards and tell me that's acceptable. I can't believe it is. This is 6 hours condensed into about 3 minutes.

You really need to hear it in a quiet environment to get the full effect. This is during the night when the housing estate we both live on is quiet, most people aren't storming around their home, slamming doors and windows etc.

If that's all night every night she's either mentally unstable or doing it on purpose.

italodisco

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

If that's all night every night she's either mentally unstable or doing it on purpose.

Could be an obsessive compulsive thing, I've a friend who has that, when he leaves the house he must go back 15 odd times to check he locked the front door.

He missed a flight few years back as he was convinced he didn't lock up and left the airport to go home and check.

She might have an obsession with checking doors windows etc

shenanigan

Hi Op,

Sorry to hear about your trouble. I would suggest that the garden room idea is a costly solution especially when combined with the legal costs. This is relying on a huge change of habit i.e. sleeping arrangement whether it be only for naps of full time. The legal option may result in a reduction in noise however this may be temporary in nature and may have consequences elsewhere. In my opinion this would be the last port of call.

I would suggest that a more sensible solution would be to employ a sound consultant to review the problem and to design a bespoke solution that is the right fit for you and your family and takes into considerations the existing building fabric. They may be able to shed some light on possible options upon initial inquiry. I note that this is likely to be a costly exercise with consultant fees and construction costs however bearing in mind the cost of going legal this is likely the best route with a permanent solution.

From my limited knowledge acoustics are complicated and require the impute of a specialist, there is no easy way of getting the desired solution.

I hope you find something that works. This is a form of torture.

Kintarō Hattori

italodisco wrote: »

Absolute nutter, is this a young or elderly person?

Thank god I don't have this type of neighbour, I'd be doing a stretch in the joy if I did

Middle aged. She's had some serious stresses in the last few years and is on her own the last two or so, it's all become too much for her I fear.

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

If that's all night every night she's either mentally unstable or doing it on purpose.

Thankfully it's not all night every night but the flip side is that you don't know when it's going to happen. It might be one noise during the night or two or three bursts of noise. You might have one noisy night, then a quiet one followed by more noise. The unpredictability of it all is agitating.

italodisco wrote: »

Could be an obsessive compulsive thing, I've a friend who has that, when he leaves the house he must go back 15 odd times to check he locked the front door.

He missed a flight few years back as he was convinced he didn't lock up and left the airport to go home and check.

She might have an obsession with checking doors windows etc

It's not just the doors or windows. She used to leave the house at random times of the night when the weather was good, revving the hell out of her engine. So you had the internal noise, the slamming of the door and then excessive revving. With the change in temperature she doesn't leave as often but makes up for it by making huge amounts of internal noise. I've no idea what she's doing to cause it but it's incredible.

BryanF

OP if legal proceeding have started, it would best if you stopped commenting on the person in a public forum

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

When i priced a snip it was more like 25k.

I love the way BryanF's masterful editing has made this seem like a discussion on vasectomies.

BryanF

Lumen wrote: »

I love

Sections 2 & 3 of the forum charter
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036302

Kristopherus

BryanF wrote: »

Sections 2 & 3 of the forum charter
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036302

I'd say the OP has rolled back on the legal route from the advice he's got here. The less costly but effective route should win out in the end.

Kintarō Hattori

We're only going to the district court, no point taking it any further than that for the moment. That's the first stop and I'm looking to what my options might be if that fails.

uck51js9zml2yt

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

We're only going to the district court, no point taking it any further than that for the moment. That's the first stop and I'm looking to what my options might be if that fails.

Is this the same neighbour who has issues parking her car?

wexie

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

We're only going to the district court, no point taking it any further than that for the moment. That's the first stop and I'm looking to what my options might be if that fails.

Thing is though, if someone has mental health issues brought on by stress then bringing them to court is unlikely to do much to help the situation, nor will a court order make much in the way of a difference.

From the sounds of it what your neighbour needs is professional help. Obviously it's not a great situation for you to be in and to be honest I'm not sure what you could do.

Perhaps try the local community health team and see if they can offer help? But I'm not sure what even they could do, if the person in question doesn't acknowledge they have a problem it's hard to get them help.

Kintarō Hattori

Anthony Gray Snap wrote: »

Is this the same neighbour who has issues parking her car?

No that was a different lady who has moved onto a different location...... thankfully.

ILikeBoats

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

We built a bricks and mortar 15msq gym/shed out the back. Would definitely be big enough to live in although there's no toilet. Fully insulated, electrics and water. All in about 9k.

Kintarō Hattori

Looking into it more, a garden room looks idea. I could shell out to get a small unit built but is it possible to do something like this yourself when you have no building experience? Are there any builders who can guide you through it? Giving you a list of materials, instructions on how to build it etc. I assume windows, doors and roof would have to be done by a builder?

Lumen

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Looking into it more, a garden room looks idea. I could shell out to get a small unit built but is it possible to do something like this yourself when you have no building experience? Are there any builders who can guide you through it? Giving you a list of materials, instructions on how to build it etc. I assume windows, doors and roof would have to be done by a builder?

Leaving aside the fact that your proposed use is illegal, it still doesn't make sense. You'll have to spend a load of money to get something as badly soundproofed as your house, and then spend a load more money getting it soundproofed properly.

It makes far more sense to bring your boomtime build up to current building regs for sound. There are technical guidance docs with all the details in, it's not simple but it will be much more cost effective than what you're proposing.

There are basically two components to noise - airborne noise which you with using insulation (e.g. acoustic rockwool), and noise transmitted through the structure, which you deal with by isolation (e.g. physically separating the floor joists from the floor boards using battens and foam). Insulation + isolation = problem solved.

But in answer to your question: yes, it is quite hard/expensive to build a garden room to comply with a meaningful amount of current building regulations such that it safe and comfortable to sleep in.