Why do retired Taoseigh get to keep their seat

veryangryman · 18-09-2018 3:50pm #1

I'm looking at you Enda Kenny. Bertie aswell. They dissapear out of public view despite still being in a job and contribute NOTHING in their last years on a job that pays a good few pennies.

Why is this crap allowed?

Claw Hammer · 18-09-2018 3:50pm

veryangryman wrote: »

I'm looking at you Enda Kenny. Bertie aswell. They dissapear out of public view despite still being in a job and contribute NOTHING in their last years on a job that pays a good few pennies.

Why is this crap allowed?

What seat to they get to keep?

ohnonotgmail · 18-09-2018 3:52pm

Bertie has not been a td since 2011.

Riskymove · 18-09-2018 3:54pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

What seat to they get to keep?

I think his issue is that Enda is still a TD

ohnonotgmail · 18-09-2018 3:55pm

Riskymove wrote: »

I think his issue is that Enda is still a TD

He was a TD before he was taoiseach as well. He resigned the leadership of the party, nothing else.

El Weirdo · 18-09-2018 3:56pm

veryangryman wrote: »

I'm looking at you Enda Kenny. Bertie aswell. They dissapear out of public view despite still being in a job and contribute NOTHING in their last years on a job that pays a good few pennies.

Why is this crap allowed?

Do you even understand how our system of government works?

artanevilla · 18-09-2018 3:56pm

He was elected as a TD. That's his seat given to him by the people.

Claw Hammer · 18-09-2018 3:56pm

Riskymove wrote: »

I think his issue is that Enda is still a TD

He was elected by his constituency as a TD, same as 3 others in Mayo. None of the other three became Taoiseach. Should any TD who was not elected Taoiseach have to resign his seat?

van_beano · 18-09-2018 3:57pm

No point giving up the seat and causing a by-election.

With numbers so tight FG could not risk losing the seat to the opposition and then causing a full general election.

corner of hells · 18-09-2018 3:59pm

OP , you there ?

rovertom · 18-09-2018 4:06pm

The op has a point though in terms of the period from when they step down as taoiseach up until next election. They completely disappear and act as a retired person when they are needed to represent their constituents.
Enda Kenny fielding questions such as what will you do with yourself etc when he should still be a very busy td

Claw Hammer · 18-09-2018 4:10pm

rovertom wrote: »

The op has a point though in terms of the period from when they step down as taoiseach up until next election. They completely disappear and act as a retired person when they are needed to represent their constituents.
Enda Kenny fielding questions such as what will you do with yourself etc when he should still be a very busy td

The TD is not elected to represent his constituents. The TD is supposed to be a legislator. It shows how bad things have got that people don't know what the function of the TD is, including TDs themselves.

artanevilla · 18-09-2018 4:22pm

rovertom wrote: »

The op has a point though in terms of the period from when they step down as taoiseach up until next election. They completely disappear and act as a retired person when they are needed to represent their constituents.
Enda Kenny fielding questions such as what will you do with yourself etc when he should still be a very busy td

The reason for that is to not undermine the current Taoiseach. Obviously he would still be involved in helping constituents but any profile at a national level would have people questioning whether he really no longer leads the party.

rovertom · 18-09-2018 4:23pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The TD is not elected to represent his constituents. The TD is supposed to be a legislator. It shows how bad things have got that people don't know what the function of the TD is, including TDs themselves.

I think you will find they are elected nowadays based on how well they represent their constituents. They are certainly not voted for based on their ability as legislators.

ohnonotgmail · 18-09-2018 4:24pm

rovertom wrote: »

I think you will find they are elected nowadays based on how well they represent their constituents. They are certainly not voted for based on their ability as legislators.

which is why we end with TDs like the healy rays

Mint Sauce · 18-09-2018 4:24pm

veryangryman wrote: »

I'm looking at you Enda Kenny. Bertie aswell. They dissapear out of public view despite still being in a job and contribute NOTHING in their last years on a job that pays a good few pennies.

Why is this crap allowed?

They reamin a TD, unless they give up that position as well. All Enda did was give up his position as Party Leader, and Head of Government.

And btw, if you are going to be a AngryMan, try learning a bit about the Government, or at least get the name right, its Taoiseach!

ohnonotgmail · 18-09-2018 4:25pm

Mint Sauce wrote: »

They reamin a TD, unless they give up that position as well. All Enda did was give up his position as Party Leader, and Head of Government.

And btw, if you are going to be a AngryMan, try learning a bit about the Government, or at least get the name right, its Taoiseach!

the plural of taoiseach is taoisigh so they were close.

Mint Sauce · 18-09-2018 4:27pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the plural of taoiseach is taoisigh so they were close.

I stand corrected, other point still stands though.

Claw Hammer · 18-09-2018 4:50pm

rovertom wrote: »

I think you will find they are elected nowadays based on how well they represent their constituents. They are certainly not voted for based on their ability as legislators.

The reason why people vote for them does not change what the job entails.

blanch152 · 18-09-2018 4:52pm

El Weirdo wrote: »

Do you even understand how our system of government works?

He obviously hasn't a clue other than the usual rant against all things FG.

odetooi · 18-09-2018 4:54pm

Enda has a teacher's pension, a TD pension and a pension from being Taoiseach.

The good life

Claw Hammer · 18-09-2018 5:04pm

odetooi wrote: »

Enda has a teacher's pension, a TD pension and a pension from being Taoiseach.

The good life

Yes, but is he happy?

odetooi · 18-09-2018 6:53pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Yes, but is he happy?

A busy idiot

Odelay · 18-09-2018 6:59pm

odetooi wrote: »

Enda has a teacher's pension, a TD pension and a pension from being Taoiseach.

The good life

You should try it sometime.

veryangryman · 19-09-2018 8:52am

blanch152 wrote: »

He obviously hasn't a clue other than the usual rant against all things FG.

Really? Didn't realise Bertie was a blueshirt...

ohnonotgmail · 19-09-2018 8:59am

veryangryman wrote: »

Really? Didn't realise Bertie was a blueshirt...

do you understand now why your OP was nonsense?

rovertom · 19-09-2018 10:36am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The reason why people vote for them does not change what the job entails.

Well I'd be of the opinion that the job is 90 percent constituency work and the remainder split between committee work and Dail debate/ votes re legislation.

guylikeme · 19-09-2018 5:34pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you understand now why your OP was nonsense?

It is common knowledge that a retired taoiseach does little to nothing while he passes the time, hence why he isnt in the news for anything whatsoever.

The point is far from nonsense. It is a waste of a seat that the coonstiruency has a zombie representing them.

jamesbere · 19-09-2018 5:38pm

Got to love these threads. Someone starts then barely contributes anything and just sits back and watches everyone argue

animaal · 20-09-2018 8:42am

I'm not too bothered by whatever Enda Kenny gets up to (Or Bertie in his time after stepping down).

Look at the system of government we have. Most elected TDs are members of a party. They agree to follow the dictats of that party, whether or not they agree with every policy. The average TD is little more than an extra vote for the party position. The party whip exists to enforce that situation.

Is Enda Kenny achieving any less than the other TDs from his constituency? Never mind Mayo, I can tell you that of the current TDs elected in my own constituency, I have only heard one of them mentioned by name in the national media for doing or saying anything.

sbsquarepants · 20-09-2018 8:44am

odetooi wrote: »

Enda has a teacher's pension, a TD pension and a pension from being Taoiseach.

The good life

Shhhh.

He'll hear you:eek:

Zebra3 · 20-09-2018 9:37am

guylikeme wrote: »

It is common knowledge that a retired taoiseach does little to nothing while he passes the time, hence why he isnt in the news for anything whatsoever.

The point is far from nonsense. It is a waste of a seat that the coonstiruency has a zombie representing them.

Yep, it’s about protecting FG interests. Nothing else.

Oh and maybe his own overflowing pockets too.

20-09-2018 10:38am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Shhhh.

He'll hear you:eek:

Indy slaved for that teacher's pension.

Kristopherus · 20-09-2018 10:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

Indy slaved for that teacher's pension.

Nah, he gave up the teacher's pension for the more lucrative goldmine available to T.Ds and Senators:D.

ZeroThreat · 20-09-2018 10:54am

I presume whenever the next GE occurs, Enda isn't planning on running again and instead handing the Kenny family seat to his daughter?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-09-2018 11:02am

Enda doesn’t have a TD’s pension to my knowledge as he has a TD’s salary.

As for representing constituents that’s clearly one of the roles of representatives- the clue’s in the name. Holding government to account, law making and committees are other duties.

Geuze · 20-09-2018 11:59am

odetooi wrote: »

Enda has a teacher's pension, a TD pension and a pension from being Taoiseach.

The good life

As he was a TD since age 24, he didn't teach for long, so his teacher's pension will be very small.

Maybe 2 years service, so 2/80 of a teacher's salary?

Claw Hammer · 20-09-2018 12:02pm

Geuze wrote: »

As he was a TD since age 24, he didn't teach for long, so his teacher's pension will be very small.

Maybe 2 years service, so 2/80 of a teacher's salary?

No, he paid a substitute to hold the job open, so that he could come back to it when he wanted. The substitute was paid at the first point of the incremental scale and Enda got the difference. All the time the substitute was there counts towards the pension.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-09-2018 1:17pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

No, he paid a substitute to hold the job open, so that he could come back to it when he wanted. The substitute was paid at the first point of the incremental scale and Enda got the difference. All the time the substitute was there counts towards the pension.

Wow. Did the substitute never get a pay rise?

El Weirdo · 20-09-2018 2:00pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Wow. Did the substitute never get a pay rise?

I imagine it wasn't the same substitute.

Zebra3 · 20-09-2018 2:05pm

ZeroThreat wrote: »

I presume whenever the next GE occurs, Enda isn't planning on running again and instead handing the Kenny family seat to his daughter?

He can’t hand the seat to whoever he likes.

There tends to be an election for these sort of things.

What the electorate do is another thing altogether.

Are Am Eye · 20-09-2018 2:08pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

What the electorate do is another thing altogether.

History would suggest that they will elect his daughter.

ohnonotgmail · 20-09-2018 2:09pm

Are Am Eye wrote: »

History would suggest that they will elect his daughter.

and that is their prerogative.

KaneToad · 20-09-2018 2:14pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The substitute was paid at the first point of the incremental scale and Enda got the difference. All the time the substitute was there counts towards the pension.

I think he (Kenny) had to make the weekly pension contributions for it to count towards his end result teacher pension. He doesn't just get the pension by having someone else do the job for 40 years.

This arrangement was introduced to encourage a more diverse pool of TDs rather than the offspring of wealthy families or existing dynasties.

Its success is debatable...

Mr. Incognito · 20-09-2018 2:16pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

No, he paid a substitute to hold the job open, so that he could come back to it when he wanted. The substitute was paid at the first point of the incremental scale and Enda got the difference. All the time the substitute was there counts towards the pension.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/latest-news/teachertds-in-line-for-double-pension-bonanza-26707154.html

He gave up his teachers pension in 2011

Will have to survive on €126,000 a year pension from the Dail.

incentsitive · 20-09-2018 2:17pm

OP has disappeared:

20-09-2018 2:55pm

In fairness to the OP, he probably has a valid point (if I understand him correctly) about the dual mandate of the Taoiseach and other members of the Government, which should not be combined with constituency representation.

I would prefer a system like the one that operates in the French National Assembly, whereby deputies must resign their seats if they wish to be members of the Government, and are replaced by a substitute.

There's no good reason why members of Government should continue to represent constituencies, when they are supposed to be acting in the national interest.

Geuze · 20-09-2018 8:03pm

KaneToad wrote: »

I think he (Kenny) had to make the weekly pension contributions for it to count towards his end result teacher pension. He doesn't just get the pension by having someone else do the job for 40 years.

This arrangement was introduced to encourage a more diverse pool of TDs rather than the offspring of wealthy families or existing dynasties.

Its success is debatable...

So let me be clear, if a teacher is elected a TD after five years teaching, and is a TD for the next 35 years, then:

they could keep the teaching post open for 35 years
they get an element of the teachers wage for 35 years [wage less cost of sub]
they pay the normal teachers pension cont
they earn the TD wage and pay the TD pension cont

And at retirement, they can get a full teachers pension, based on 40 years conts [approx 30k] and a TD pension based on 35 yrs service?

Squatter · 20-09-2018 8:16pm

Geuze wrote: »

So let me be clear, if a teacher is elected a TD after five years teaching, and is a TD for the next 35 years, then:
they could keep the teaching post open for 35 years

they get an element of the teachers wage for 35 years [wage less cost of sub]

they pay the normal teachers pension cont

they earn the TD wage and pay the TD pension cont

And at retirement, they can get a full teachers pension, based on 40 years conts [approx 30k] and a TD pension based on 35 yrs service?

Not quite. The rules have been changed since Enda was first elected to the Dail (back in the mid-1940's!).

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-teachertds-holding-on-to-their-school-jobs-26804575.html

mikeym · 20-09-2018 9:18pm

Hes an elected TD simple as.

He could retire if he wanted to but im sure Leo will call a Snap Election soon.

ToddyDoody · 21-09-2018 1:11am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

veryangryman wrote: »

I'm looking at you Enda Kenny. Bertie aswell. They dissapear out of public view despite still being in a job and contribute NOTHING in their last years on a job that pays a good few pennies.

Why is this crap allowed?

What seat to they get to keep?

Their seat on the LUAS. They're not obliged to get up to facilitate pregnant women / the elderly.

Why do retired Taoseigh get to keep their seat

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